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CHC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,246
This seems pretty realistic. We're at a point where most people have more entertainment than they know what to do with. Between listening to music, listening to podcasts, reading novels, comics, watching anime, movies, binging entire series on streaming services, watching video series on YouTube of game streams on Twitch and actually playing games, people can afford to be more picky about how they keep themselves entertained. If everyone chases GaaS, that trend will fizzle like any other.

I also think it's just about quality over quantity, too. As I mentioned above, most of the GaaS titles provide such a sort of homogeneous, carefully metered amount of "fun" that they lack a lot of high-highs and low-lows of shorter, more carefully designed games. I suppose I could play Destiny or the Division for 1000 hours but at some point I am playing out of habit rather than active enjoyment, and like you said, there are so many other options that offer a more condensed feeling of fun and accomplishment.
 

Gatti-man

Banned
Jan 31, 2018
2,359
I hate gaas games, but it seems to me that division 2 is the peak of the genre... i may have to play it.
I was gifted it and despite not really liking the setting and realistic style of drops vs fantasy/sci-fi I still end up playing it because it is fun and has good gameplay. It's solidly better than division 1 was to me.
 

Deleted member 6730

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,526
I wonder if the industry is heading towards a GaaS crash.

If you have 10+ games fighting to be the "only game you play" then inevitably some of them are going to lose out big. There just isn't enough free time in a week for someone to grind multiple "never ending" games on a consistent basis. Maybe the whole industry will devolve into a battle for the whales.
GaaS is a fad with a fundementally flawed concept and that's without getting into how bad the games in this vein have been lately.
 

Hailinel

Shamed a mod for a tag
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,527
GaaS is a fad with a fundementally flawed concept and that's without getting into how bad the games in this vein have been lately.
GaaS titles need to launch with a baseline level of quality and polish. Splatoon is technically a service game with the way it received content updates over time. But the core gameplay was rock solid from day one. Developers are learning the hard way that GaaS doesn't mean "launch broken, and people will be patient."
 

Dekuman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,026
GaaS titles need to launch with a baseline level of quality and polish. Splatoon is technically a service game with the way it received content updates over time. But the core gameplay was rock solid from day one. Developers are learning the hard way that GaaS doesn't mean "launch broken, and people will be patient."
If you look at the precursors to GaaS games which were the MMOs of the last 10-15 years,. Most launched at full price with a sub fee and few of them made the excuse of live service to launch broken. The ones that did failed for the most part. Granted there were many failures of fully featured MMOs as well but if an MMO succeeded it wasn't because it launched broken. Even FFXIV had to relaunch after the buggy and broken initial release.
 

stan423321

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,676
Are premium (paid upfront) GaaS also a thing because piracy rates are much lower or in some cases almost impossible with the way these games can be online integrated?
Technically yes, but sort of not. I don't hear anything about Xbone hacking - frankly, that's concerning from preservation standpoint - and PS4 hacks are in a very experimental stadium, so if you fear piracy, skipping PC is an option. Conversely, if you ship a game on PC, online integration is not enough of a pirate deterrent if your game is commonly considered excellent. Unless the point was to make pirates think the game is bad, I doubt the choice of GaaS model for Anthem etc. had much to do with piracy.
 

Demacabre

Member
Nov 20, 2017
2,058
GaaS/Live Services (in whatever bizarro incarnation-all catching term as it stands now) is just a gold rush for the Corps. Much like the MMORPG Gold Rush before it, it will bust and they will all cash out. There will be a few memorable ones, maybe a few that persist, and a glut of utter swill. People should not get their hopes up with it being supported for years though. Expect nothing and be pleasantly surprised.

Also, don't preorder or buy at launch. Take in reviews from pros and consumers, watch gameplay, and make your own decision. These games are shipping in less than optimal shape more times than not. Don't get burned then upset or fall into some emotionally unhealthy sunk cost fallacy defense force. Just with GaaS, enter it skeptically and make an informed decision. There is no shame by doing your homework and then getting burned. You tried.
 
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Maternal Heart

Alt Account
Banned
Apr 3, 2019
99
I was going through some old Bioware interviews and this came up:



Not sure how that plan to support a failure for 10 years is now.

This seems pretty realistic. We're at a point where most people have more entertainment than they know what to do with. Between listening to music, listening to podcasts, reading novels, comics, watching anime, movies, binging entire series on streaming services, watching video series on YouTube of game streams on Twitch and actually playing games, people can afford to be more picky about how they keep themselves entertained. If everyone chases GaaS, that trend will fizzle like any other.

Just reading this post made me stressed about my backlog of films, shows, games, and comics.
 

Shoeless

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,000
Just reading this post made me stressed about my backlog of films, shows, games, and comics.

It kind of makes me think that, provided you retain your mental faculties, future generations won't have much of a problem with, "What do I with all this time now that I'm retired?"

There's going to be, like, decades worth of media to consume.
 

Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
Not sure how that plan to support a failure for 10 years is now.
Patrick Söderlund was the guy who blurted that out in an interview but he didn't seem very firm. He said "It could be the start of a 10 year journey", so they were definitely contemplating a Destiny like cycle, but as we know, even the original "10 year plan" with Bungie and Activision stopped within their 8th year, and I doubt somehow that EA even had a contract to speak of.

Surely they must've known the game wasn't looking too great before it shipped at EA. They set a last resort deadline for the project. You can't put a 10 year journey plan for a game you know is meeting the last possible deadline it can, then the risk of shipping broken or under-featured is that much higher.
 

Dragon's Game

Alt account
Banned
Apr 1, 2019
1,624
RDR 2 sold 23 million, but if they continue not to make money with their online...they won't be profitable

online games are all about making continuious profit to sustain
 

Candescence

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,253
Man, you guys should play or replay Tom Bissell's and Matthew Burns' The Writer Will Do Something. It only takes 15 minutes and it's like an interactive version of the problems identified in the OP's article.

I particularly like the part where the lead developers almost take inspiration from Dark Souls before reminding themselves of the corporate mandate not to talk about it.
This is so fucking good. This shit is why you need a coherent, stable vision for your project early on. Break shit early and figure out what you're doing, and plan ahead for any further changes that might occur due to unexpected problems.

Game dev studios seem to be kind of terrible at project management for the most part.
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,178
UK
Didn't know Frostbite was that bad and it was gonna be more like Star Trek. A shame but hopefully this article leads to lessons learnt.
 

Hailinel

Shamed a mod for a tag
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,527
Man, you guys should play or replay Tom Bissell's and Matthew Burns' The Writer Will Do Something. It only takes 15 minutes and it's like an interactive version of the problems identified in the OP's article.

I particularly like the part where the lead developers almost take inspiration from Dark Souls before reminding themselves of the corporate mandate not to talk about it.
Holy shit, that's basically Anthem Production: The Game.
 

machinaea

Game Producer
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
221
Holy shit, that's basically Anthem Production: The Game.
It's unfortunately more like "AAA Game Production: The Game", it's inspired by Bissell's earlier experiences in game development (who has worked on writing for Gear of War, Uncharted, Tales of Borderlands and more). You could (unfortunately) relate the game to some of the most successful games just as to the ones that have failed, which is why some many developers have voiced out that the whole Anthem production story is by no means unique that and it's very similar to stories of successful games too.

However, there is still plenty of hope in the air; as I mentioned earlier more and more game studios are doing less and less crunch, have more time for proper pre-production (as the studios have other opportunities to put staff into, rather than being forced to start production of 300+ people before the game's vision and production pipelines are able to withstand that amount of staff), and more examples of:
 

Ploid 6.0

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,440
This helped move Skillup to make his part 2 of his Anthem Review it seems.

MOD EDIT: SkillUp is on ResetEra's list of banned personas. We do not provide a platform for their content.
 
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Arta

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,445
This helped move Skillup to make his part 2 of his Anthem Review it seems.
MOD EDIT: SkillUp is on ResetEra's list of banned personas. We do not provide a platform for their content.
Now watching this, it's good stuff.

MOD EDIT: SkillUp is on ResetEra's list of banned personas. We do not provide a platform for their content.

Crazy that the Anthem trailer is even worse than the Killzone trailer of 2005.
 
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Bladelaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,715
Didn't BioWare choose it of their own accord? SkillUp's new Anthem video shows an article stating that.
I wonder if it was a real choice or not.
Baseless assumptions: EA offers significant incentives for using Frostbite to encourage internal developers to use it. BioWare MGMT probably thought the incentives were worth the tradeoff in usability. This along with (in theory) having access to Frostbite's support team made it an appealing choice. Based on Jason's article it looks like the support only materialized when things were already up shit's creek. I would be more inclined to put the blame on BioWare MGMT over EA oversight, but EA still holds some blame via the frostbite incentive and not giving BioWare adequate support until it was too late. Again I have nothing more than this article to go on but seems logical enough.
 

FoolsMilky

Member
Sep 16, 2018
485
GaaS is a fad with a fundementally flawed concept and that's without getting into how bad the games in this vein have been lately.
GaaS titles need to launch with a baseline level of quality and polish. Splatoon is technically a service game with the way it received content updates over time. But the core gameplay was rock solid from day one. Developers are learning the hard way that GaaS doesn't mean "launch broken, and people will be patient."

What I understood back in the day when the term started cropping up was that any game that is changed at all after release is still in the GaaS definition.

Stardew Valley is GaaS even if "all it gets" is free updates and bugfixes for the rest of its life. The service is that the customer (and future customers) are getting updates.

But if that's the definition then we're really muddying things like games which have more opportunities for the player to pay real money, games which literally just output bugfixes after launch, early access titles, etc. I'm sure most people mean things like The Division and Assassin's Creed series when they say GaaS obviously.

Also, I don't feel confident evaluating whether a "GaaS Crash" is coming, although it really doesn't sound quite right, though I do feel people are on the money with the main issues coming from direct competition. But Gaas is certainly not a fad, not as I understand it.

On-Topic: Great article. I think that, even with all this information, people shouldn't be trying to pin blame only on one single entity. The problem seems systemic, and I really hope Bioware gets to the bottom of things. Also makes me very curious about the future of unionization.
 

Gamer @ Heart

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,594

How many times have those people heard the same assurances from those same leaders? That this won't happen again...after Mass effect, after Inquisition, after Andromeda? Bioware needed a public shaming to get the ball rolling but after the news cycle is over, will anything truly change?

Has rockstar San Diego changed at all since it's public shaming last year?

jschreier have you considered doing follow ups to your pieces? Do your sources ever give updates?