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Kotaku: Microsoft Is Still Planning A Cheaper, Disc-Less Next-Gen Xbox
- Thread starter Spectromixer
- Start date
Because 2 SKUs worked so well for PS3.
Honestly I think Microsoft is well aware they just can't compete with Sony on price/spec. Last gen they couldn't either, so they threw in Kinect and charged $100 more. This time they're probably coming in underpowered or overpriced and to compensate they're doing a cheapo box so they can say "starting at $299" in their pitch. The problem is, I don't think people are that dumb anymore. The age of consumer ignorance is over.
Honestly I think Microsoft is well aware they just can't compete with Sony on price/spec. Last gen they couldn't either, so they threw in Kinect and charged $100 more. This time they're probably coming in underpowered or overpriced and to compensate they're doing a cheapo box so they can say "starting at $299" in their pitch. The problem is, I don't think people are that dumb anymore. The age of consumer ignorance is over.
And with Xbox coming off of a less successful platform vs the competition I'm sure they are wanting as many as possible to pick up with the new gen and focus less on the last. Even Sony has said they want a much quicker adoption rate than before, this seems to be a very deliberate tactic toward the same goal.
Sure if done wrong it could hinder the gen some, but I'd much rather wait and see their plans before condemning them. Especially since I'm sure they know very well what miscommunication and underperforming consoles can do.
Why so rude?
The reason they are done that way now, is because the environment is designed that way. Also, the CPU, RAM, HDD size speeds etc, are not as close as what we are being led to believe right now. While that may change in the future, right now the only thing we know is changing is the GPU speed. Thats it. If that holds true, then there is no reason to port up to Anaconda. THey will develop for the Anaconda, and switch to the lower res, less graphical quality for the Lockhart. Again, thats if we are to believe the info we currently have.
As long as cpu and storage is similar, it won't bottleneck the other systems too much since gpu performance is very scaleable with resolution. I think the strategy is kind of stupid if they can't also guarantee the expensive box is >PS5 though.
Is it completely terrible for consumers if it provides a lower cost barrier to entry for next gen? The hardcore PLAYAZ can buy Anaconda.
No. That's not how this works, that's not how this works at all. Consoles are baseline, pc min specs will be raised. PC gaming has the lowest marketshare, they are not the primary development focus. That's why the min spec for storage for PC games WILL be bumped to SSDs.
And if a game is being released for consoles + PC the lowest tier console in the list will be the developmental baseline in terms of game design scope.
Are you just being an asshole or did you have something you actually wanted to say?
If you are talking about PC hardware in general, like Nvidia/AMD graphics cards
low-end, mainstream/performance, midrange, high-end, enthusiast, games are never developed for the higher-end hardware. They're always developed with the mid-to lower range in mind, thus, never taking full advantage of the high-end stuff. Consoles are different. Devs have always maximized for a single, closed box.
Now with this gen, we got mid cycle upgrades. That was different.
But for next-gen, it appears Microsoft will be starting off with 2 specs, a high-end and a low-end. Anaconda and Lockhart. Guess which one will sell more? Lockhart. So next gen Xbox games will always be limited by the lower-end hardware for the rest of the generation. Meanwhile with PS5, 1st party studios will be targeting a single PS5 base spec from the start. But what about 3rd party studios making games for next gen, will they make games that have to work on Lockhart and bring those games to both Anaconda and PS5, without ever pushing the bounrdries of what Anaconda and PS5 can do (given they're both fairly equal) if there was no Lockhart?
In this regard, the new Xbox consoles will be like new PCs, high-end and low-end. PS5 will be like a console should be, a generational leap where games built for PS5 don't have take a weaker PS5, or PS4 Pro, or OG PS4 into account.
This is nonsense imo
The console will do whatever devs want. Call of Duty is still gonna be 60fps on everything but the resolution is unpredictable, etc. Throwing out res and FPS is useless. Just say the power level and go.
I imagine manufacturing Xbox One Xs will be more costly than this cheaper model. This new model will probably be much lighter and smaller, will use a cheaper cooling solution, and they also save from not having to worry about Bluray licensing fees.
Edit:
And also this cheaper model will be what's running Xbox games in the cloud, not the more expensive model.
This is probably the way we're going anyway. I don't remember the last time I bought a physical disc for my PS4 Pro ... especially after plopping in a 2 Terabyte SSD. It's just so much more convenient to have the games already loaded into the system. But cloud gaming can eat a big one.
Doesn't 1080p free up a lot of the other graphical features at 4TF Navi providing significantly more flexibility for GPU usage?
I would think people would prefer that if they claim bottlenecks. How much work goes into switching a game from 4k to 1080p in development.
You've obviously never interacted with Anthony before.
Tom said nothing was set in stone yet. The initial reports about Lockhart was that developers hated it, so MS dropped it. But now it's back... The backlash for this shit better be huge! MS and Sony should focus on one console each, make them as beastly as they can. Make life easier for devs, MS!
And while you're at it, don't gimp the entire generation.
Nah, RX 580 is comparable to 1X and it's 32% faster than the 5500M.
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/radeon-pro-5500m.c3463
Yeah it just seems kind of lame to me if they do this they wouldn't just kind of keep the x around as a supported console vs doing this Lockhart approach.
I'm actually imagining a world where this launches at $250 - $300 and they end full production of all XBS and XBX. This will be fully back compatible and all existing game works out of the box. Essentially they stop selling all old gen and this is their replacement for anyone who previously wanted the cheaper old gen consoles.
With a lower price point and full back compat combined with Game Pass, why wouldn't people jump in?
With a lower price point and full back compat combined with Game Pass, why wouldn't people jump in?
Basically what I'm seeing is two camps. In one camp we have people who very much want this next gen to follow suit with gaming systems of old and provide a solitary place with a large gap from previous system performance. And in the other we have people who see that technology is changing and things are much different and are progressing rapidly and approaching new gens from multiple angles can be a real positive "IF" done properly with things like proper scaling software and not gimping the important bits.
Id say I'd be happy with either but if I had to choose it'd be the latter.
Id say I'd be happy with either but if I had to choose it'd be the latter.
It's bandwidth starved + the 580 is an OCed part.
Maybe the 5500m isn't 1X level, but the GPU in Lockhart absolutely will be.
It does.
He/she wasn't posting it for MS' benefit. But somehow I think you knew that already.
If scarlett + PS5 are 4k consoles, those games will require significantly weaker gpus to render 1080p.
And if ps5 + scarlett have 1440p games, you don't think Microsoft planned for this, you really think you thought or somthing the xbox engineers and leadership did not consider?
They delivered a 4k console this gen I don't see why they can't deliver 1080p + 4k consoles next gen.
The main reason this is possible is the move to 4k
Not at all excited about an all digital console, digital console gaming is more expensive than disc based console gaming period.
I'll buy the more powerful Xbox that has a 4k blu ray disc slot, I think it's a bad move for MS to splinter the user base
I'll buy the more powerful Xbox that has a 4k blu ray disc slot, I think it's a bad move for MS to splinter the user base
What this sounds like to me is MS went out with initial Lockhart, got feedback, tuned it some, and sending it back out maybe.
I agree but if cpu and everything else is identical but gpu and it lines up with ps4 pro, something devs have extensive experience with. Would that not alleviate part of the issue?
Especially if dev's continue to support the pro.
A cheaper box means more options for people. That's never really a bad thing.
I understand the "gimping" concern, but this isn't the first time devs have had to deal with catering to a variety of specs and it won't be the last.
Will first party PS5 games blow xbox games out of the water graphically? I don't think so, considering first party games are also designed with high end PCs in mind, let alone Anaconda or Lockhart.
This is a very interesting strategy.
First: games won't be next gen immediately, we will have cross gen games for at least 2 years after 2020.
Second: games and engines are more scalable than ever, and they will continue to scale across many settings for a long time especially with PC being a big and major platform. introducing next gen graphics at 1080p for a cheap price is a very interesting strategy.
- Even if Lockhard didn't last too long, people who get it will be more likely to upgrade to the more powerful Xbox a few years down the line, because they already invested in it.
We will see how this will play out if true.
First: games won't be next gen immediately, we will have cross gen games for at least 2 years after 2020.
Second: games and engines are more scalable than ever, and they will continue to scale across many settings for a long time especially with PC being a big and major platform. introducing next gen graphics at 1080p for a cheap price is a very interesting strategy.
- Even if Lockhard didn't last too long, people who get it will be more likely to upgrade to the more powerful Xbox a few years down the line, because they already invested in it.
We will see how this will play out if true.
Am I the only one who perceived Era's reaction to the news about Lockhart's cancellation a year ago as a great relief?!
They've already advertised next gen as being forward and backward compat with xbox one
Another reason why I think lockhart will be a xbox one x with the new ssd storage, that way they can still claim back forward compat with xbox one
It's almost like I didn't mean literally
Do you guys spend all day at your keyboard waiting for gotcha moments?
Edit
This
It might support some very basic ray tracing implementation.
It will never be $250 or $300. I promise that. It's always more expensive than you think. It's never a good deal when it comes to Xbox. It's either "hm ok" or overpriced. Never "oh that's a good deal". Never at launch. I'm still reeling with disappointment from 2013 and 2017.
last thing I'll say is I wonder if Lockharts reason for existing is because the PERFORMANCE is key. If you get a solid cpu and a decent GPU you may not get resolution but you MAY get 60 fps and performance. Which is what both manufacturers have been preaching. Performance, NOT fidelity. I don't think the basics of games will shift drastically. I think games will just run more smoothly. And if they can market it correctly, explaining to the consumer that thisis why they're doing it, then maybe we are overthinking it. Because remember, we have never had amid gen power increase like this ever. So maybe Lockhart would make sense now
Tom never implied that they made any changes, only that they weren't sure whether to go through with it or not. They still aren't.
They can't do an XBX because they need the CPU and SSD as well as want a similar structured GPU.
I don't think they have interacted with the rude person you are.
You talk like I've got some reputation, just because you're butt hurt and lose your temper when Somone does not agree with you.
All games are made and optimized to reach the most varied levels of PCs, so imagine if a game was made completely based on a PC with RTX 2080, and not have to worry about running on a weak one, developers could extract everything at their disposal, create much larger worlds, complex AI interactions, physics and destruction, or do you believe that if for example Assassin's Creed Odyssey were created from scratch thinking about the most powerful card on the market would the game run on average PCs and be like the one we play today ? It is not just about resolutions and a few effects here and there,the higher the baseline the better,not the other way around,PS exclusives will not be hold back because of that,and if Lockheart is real,Xbox exclusives will be hold back comparated with PS5 even if the Scarllet turns out more powerfull,and after MS saying it is targeting all first party games to be 60fps makes sense and easy to achieve if the base line is a console with 6TF< and this will be extendend to multiplataform games too.But it is too soon,we don't know how powerfull it is.
All of this,basically.That is why is incredible what the developers can extract from a hardware of 2013 and bring to life incredible games like Red Dead Redemption 2.
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What he posted is most probably the gpu of Lockhart and it's Navi