Kotaku: Phil Spencer On Microsoft’s Struggles With 1st Party Game Quality And Efforts To Improve It

[Justified]

He doesn't say he doesn't hear the desire - he says he doesn't hear it from their internal studios.

Click to shrink...

But he is apart of this industry, and the original question was for the industry as a whole not just the studios under him. IMO he basically deflected with. "Not my studios, not my concern"

As a leader in the industry, regardless of if his employees are complaining or not, the conversation of unionizing should be on his radar, because in the end it will effect them in some way also

 

[Mekanos]

This answers nothing.

Click to shrink...

Console sales...? Not sure what you want me to clarify.

 

[Jiraiya]

Can I ask how it can be worse for the workers?



And someone has already posted a video of game designer of one of it's adquired studios sporting a "Game Workers Unite" t-shirt on a conference. So... maybe he should be pay attention?

Click to shrink...

And how do you know if they discussed this in private with this acquired studio? Are there reports somewhere that state this studio has approached Spencer about it?

 

[Deleted member 6235]

yeah the stuff about rushed games is on point. everything they released in the last few years felt rushed and considering how little they had in first party/publishing it makes sense.

seeing halo having a 5 year dev time is really good. AOE4 seems to be cooking for a while too. Tbh all of their games seem to be getting the time they need to really evolve and turn into new things, Ori 2 for 2020 was quite unexpected for me

I think they need a big AAA RPG in their portfolio and build an asian studio.

Click to shrink...

Obsidian and the second studio from Playground are both AAA's RPG studios

Need to see it to believe it. Phil has been running the show since 2014 and was in Matt booty position before that. Their output of exclusives this generation has been absolutely pitiful, while Nintendo and Sony keep giving you reasons to invest in their ecosystem with diverse lineups that are exclusive to their platform.

Basically, Phil has been all talk and little action towards the hardcore Xbox gamers who still stick with them. The only thing they've succeeded with until this point is their services.

Click to shrink...

rofl if this is all talk i wonder what's actual action

games take time to make, friend

 

[AntiMacro]

And someone has already posted a video of game designer of one of it's adquired studios sporting a "Game Workers Unite" t-shirt on a conference. So... maybe he should be paying attention?

Click to shrink...

Wearing a shirt doesn't mean they're openly advocating for it within Microsoft's studios. If they already feel like they're treated well, they may not see the point for them...doesn't mean they don't see the point for other developers at other publishers.

But he is apart of this industry, and the original question was for the industry as a whole not just the studios under him. IMO he basically deflected with. "Not my studios, not my concern"

As a leader in the industry, regardless of if his employees are complaining or not, the conversation of unionizing should be on his radar, because in the end it will effect them in some way also

Click to shrink...

When you're talking about unions, it really is 'not my studios, not my concern' - mostly because of the business implications. If he says 'Yeah, that shit at Rockstar is BAD...No idea what needs to happen, but they need to get that under control' you don't think there'll be blowback from Take-Two about it?

Plus the question was NOT about the industry - it was directly about conditions at Microsoft. "What are your expectations of the people that work under you and are making games in terms of the extent to which they should or shouldn't crunch, what is a fair thing to ask of your employees… do you have guidelines?"

That, and the entire response about their work making development sustainable without crunch, was something that didn't make the quote cut.

 

[Cranster]

Halo could be amazing for all we know but you can't sell a system on just one IP.

Click to shrink...

 

[z1ggy]

They have 3 RPG studios and 2 can make AAA RPGs.

Click to shrink...

That's why they got Obsidian

Click to shrink...

Fable 4 should come next-gen, and Obsidian is capable of making another big AAA RPG after The Outer Worlds. As for an Asian studio, I think Spencer said he wants to invest in a Japanese studio. Microsoft will probably acquire an independent Japanese studio like Tabata's new studio or make its own eventually.

Click to shrink...

I think Obsidian is good for AA RPGs but i dont think if they can make AAA great (good combat, good animations on dialogue, etc) Its the same for Inxile. I loved them but they need people that know how to make a AAA.

As Japan studio will be ok like the Tabatas studio.

 

[sibarraz]

An strong launch title could definitely sell consoles. See Breath of the Wild or Wii Sports.

Halo Infinite could be the same

 

[Imitation Of Life]

I think they need a big AAA RPG in their portfolio and build an asian studio.

Click to shrink...

What are Obsidian and Playground new studio? Unless they are going to build an AAA RPG studio from scratch you are not getting anything bigger than those. None are available to acquire.

 

[Rodjer]

I think Obsidian is good for AA RPGs but i dont think if they can make AAA great (good combat, good animations on dialogue, etc)

Click to shrink...

I mean, Horizon dialogue animations are not good and TW3 combat is not good, but still, they are AAA RPGs
You can add Fallout 4 in the mix as well.

 

[RavFiveFour]

Poor man's tweet, Microsoft 1st party games come around and deliver.

 

[Defect]

I think there's a major hurdle that they have 3 studios now dedicated to continuing (or to put it more cynically, really only emulating) past franchise successes without the creative talent that spawned them, rather than fostering talent to create new IP and forge a new identity. Maybe Halo Infinite is this exciting new thing to inspire people, but Halo 4 and Gears 4 were largely just exercises in "Hey we wanna make a new one of these... but we can't be too different because we still need to win over the skeptics who think it's wrong for anyone else to do these soooo..."

Click to shrink...

Lol are you misremembering what happened with Halo 4? The multiplayer was all kinds of fucked up and they destroyed any trust they had. The Coalition saw what happened with 343 and THEY wanted to make sure everyone knew they could make a typical Gears game and they did. Halo Infinite is 343's true test if they can make a Halo game.

 

[Jiraiya]

Console sales...? Not sure what you want me to clarify.

Click to shrink...

Xbox seems pretty healthy and is doing some good stuff for the industry. Why does it matter if they win a race they've never won?

 

[Kage Maru]

Not a fan of this quote, especially when you have an Early Access program.

I have no problem with Sea of Thieves being on Gamepass at launch, but it should not have been sold for $60 outside of GP.

Click to shrink...

I don't want them to make things GP exclusive if that's what you're implying. SoT should have been in early access for $30 and then launch a year later at $60/GP after the feedback and updates.

Need to see it to believe it. Phil has been running the show since 2014 and was in Matt booty position before that. Their output of exclusives this generation has been absolutely pitiful, while Nintendo and Sony keep giving you reasons to invest in their ecosystem with diverse lineups that are exclusive to their platform.

Basically, Phil has been all talk and little action towards the hardcore Xbox gamers who still stick with them. The only thing they've succeeded with until this point is their services.

Click to shrink...

They expand their studios from 5 to 15, restructured how their studios are managed, and you still think it's all talk...

 

[ryseing]

I don't want them to make things GP exclusive if that's what you're implying. SoT should have been in early access for $30 and then launch a year later at $60/GP after the feedback and updates.

Click to shrink...

Sure, I would have been fine with this, hence me mentioning the early access program that they have. I'm just saying that it was absurd for SoT to launch at $60.

 

[z1ggy]

I mean, Horizon dialogue animations are not good and TW3 combat is not good, but still, they are AAA RPGs
You can add Fallout 4 in the mix as well.

Click to shrink...

About Horizon: But the combat was amazing, also the animations (but yeah, the dialogue was mmm)

About TW3: The combat was mmm but the dialogue (not the animations) was very good on story main and in quests.

I dont like any Fallout after Fallout 2 (Only of course, Fallout The new Vegas)

 

[Justified]

Wearing a shirt doesn't mean they're openly advocating for it within Microsoft's studios. If they already feel like they're treated well, they may not see the point for them...doesn't mean they don't see the point for other developers at other publishers.




When you're talking about unions, it really is 'not my studios, not my concern' - mostly because of the business implications. If he says 'Yeah, that shit at Rockstar is BAD...No idea what needs to happen, but they need to get that under control' you don't think there'll be blowback from Take-Two about it?

Plus the question was NOT about the industry - it was directly about conditions at Microsoft. "What are your expectations of the people that work under you and are making games in terms of the extent to which they should or shouldn't crunch, what is a fair thing to ask of your employees… do you have guidelines?"

That, and the entire response about their work making development sustainable without crunch, was something that didn't make the quote cut.

Click to shrink...

This is the question Im referring to which prompted the follow up with " You don't hear the desire?"

Totilo: Do you think it would be beneficial if game developers unionized?

Click to shrink...

IMO when it come to unionization there isn't a "us or them", its a "we" so who cares what Take Two thinks, it about the devs not the Pubs.

However while I support unions, it's always been my opinion that it will not happen due to the "not my concern" mindset. The game industry is too global, just like say the clothing industry. There will always be studios in countries who don't give a damn and run sweat shops and Pubs will go to them ( see how Apple and Nike operates)

 

[chrisypoo]

Xbox seems pretty healthy and is doing some good stuff for the industry. Why does it matter if they win a race they've never won?

Click to shrink...

Some people just aren't happy unless they're console warring. Just ignore them, your life will be happier for it.

 

[Deleted member 36622]

Xbox seems pretty healthy and is doing some good stuff for the industry. Why does it matter if they win a race they've never won?

Click to shrink...

The number of acquisitions they made is more scary than healthy, much like THQ Nordic.

Yes this will help Microsoft no doubt, but they have to prove they can manage so many studios properly because in the past they struggled to manage the 2-3 studios they have, and there is always the concern one day they might start to think like EA shutting down studios like it's nothing.

 

[Taurus]

Unless they get Kojima and Yakuza on board I'm never buying an Xbox console

Click to shrink...

Tell me more

 

[B.C.]

Need to see it to believe it. Phil has been running the show since 2014 and was in Matt booty position before that. Their output of exclusives this generation has been absolutely pitiful, while Nintendo and Sony keep giving you reasons to invest in their ecosystem with diverse lineups that are exclusive to their platform.

Basically, Phil has been all talk and little action towards the hardcore Xbox gamers who still stick with them. The only thing they've succeeded with until this point is their services.

Click to shrink...

I guess no one voted to be drug tested before joining Era, huh? Not with shit like this ^^ still being posted.

I don't know where to begin here. Its all just...... wrong.

 

[Jiraiya]

The number of acquisitions they made is more scary than healthy, much like THQ Nordic.

Yes this will help Microsoft no doubt, but they have to prove they can manage so many studios properly because in the past they struggled to manage the 2-3 studios they have, and there is always the concern one day they might start to think like EA shutting down studios like it's nothing.

Click to shrink...

I think they learned their lesson. The driving point has been letting the studios do what they do. I don't think they're lying about this creative freedom. As to studios shutting down...IDC to entertain that thought before they even get games out. I tend to be more positive about this stuff.

 

[TheGhost]

Need to see it to believe it. Phil has been running the show since 2014 and was in Matt booty position before that. Their output of exclusives this generation has been absolutely pitiful, while Nintendo and Sony keep giving you reasons to invest in their ecosystem with diverse lineups that are exclusive to their platform.

Basically, Phil has been all talk and little action towards the hardcore Xbox gamers who still stick with them. The only thing they've succeeded with until this point is their services.

Click to shrink...

Hardcore Xbox players don't seem to give a fuck?
They have their third party titles and they are happy.

BC and Gamepass has been more than just talk, it's reason to invest into the ecosystem.

 

[Khanimus]

Lol are you misremembering what happened with Halo 4? The multiplayer was all kinds of fucked up and they destroyed any trust they had. The Coalition saw what happened with 343 and THEY wanted to make sure everyone knew they could make a typical Gears game and they did. Halo Infinite is 343's true test if they can make a Halo game.

Click to shrink...

I mean MCC or Anniversary or whatever was a bit of a fucking mess too for a long time too. And even on the campaign end, people like myself who were interested to see Halo go in some wild new directions were left going "oh... so those cool new aliens are like barely in it?"

You'd think 5 would have found more footing but... no.

So now this is again them trying to show they have something to bring to that franchise? Like, I get that there's obviously a lot of pressure, but man, that series hasn't been much of a mover or a shaker in a long time.

 

[Seganomics]

Sure, I would have been fine with this, hence me mentioning the early access program that they have. I'm just saying that it was absurd for SoT to launch at $60.

Click to shrink...

Sony turned the most successful racing franchise in its history into a Gaas title, go and have a look at the praise Polyphony are getting for adding rain into their game two years after launch, and you will see that this system can work providing the foundation is solid.
MS and Rare were right to take the approach they did with regards SoT's release considering its continued popularity.
It's not the right approach for every title, but I think Gaas being some kind of focus from MS when it comes to it's first party releases is a total misconception anyhow.

 

[jviggy43]

It's not nothing, you only have declared the comment nothing for yourself.

There are definetly people out there who are big Yakuza and Kojima fans and would only buy a console if Yakuza and Kojima games are on it.

I remember reading comments on r/xboxone when the Kojima/Sony partnership was announced how people would follow Kojima to any platform he would release his games on.

People have different deal breakers and interests to buy a console.

Click to shrink...

I cant tell if I should just block you because youre unintentionally daft as to why that comment had nothing to do with this thread, or are just being super disingenuous about it on purpose.

 

[Seganomics]

I mean MCC or Anniversary or whatever was a bit of a fucking mess too for a long time too. And even on the campaign end, people like myself who were interested to see Halo go in some wild new directions were left going "oh... so those cool new aliens are like barely in it?"

You'd think 5 would have found more footing but... no.

So now this is again them trying to show they have something to bring to that franchise? Like, I get that there's obviously a lot of pressure, but man, that series hasn't been much of a mover or a shaker in a long time.

Click to shrink...

Halo 5 was certainly a misstep campaign wise but the MP was something that seemed to please the hardcore Halo fans.
I think part of Halo's problem (and to a certain extent Gears) is people expect an exceptional campaign AND MP from those titles. Halo and Gears are held to higher standards on both sides now due to the competition (Sony) bringing excellent SP experiences and the COD's and Overwatch et al leading the MP space.
It's an almost impossible task to live up to the standards Halo and Gears set all those years ago in the current gaming climate.

 

[Vinc]

But you do not need to jump to next gen for Halo. Infinite will release on Xbox One and PC, more cjoice is good and like that my One X is console to stay in my living room.

But I have to say I am not hyped on Halo, but interested which way the next game will go.

Click to shrink...

That's all well and good, but even despite having a PC equipped with an i5 and a 1070, and an XB1X, I still feel like the best experience will be on Scarlett, so that's what I gotta have!

 

[Deleted member 3897]

I cant tell if I should just block you because youre unintentionally daft as to why that comment had nothing to do with this thread, or are just being super disingenuous about it on purpose.

Click to shrink...

Do what you gotta do. Do whatever feels right for you.

Personally, I will never block anyone and have never blocked anyone.

 

[Zappy]

The number of acquisitions they made is more scary than healthy, much like THQ Nordic.

Yes this will help Microsoft no doubt, but they have to prove they can manage so many studios properly because in the past they struggled to manage the 2-3 studios they have, and there is always the concern one day they might start to think like EA shutting down studios like it's nothing.

Click to shrink...

When have Microsoft ever had only '2-3' studios?

 

[JigglesBunny]

Totilo: Yeah, you don't want the Kotaku story about one of your studios, right?

Spencer: Well...

Totilo: We don't have one planned.

Click to shrink...

This is some real big dick energy from Totilo, hot damn.

Unless they get Kojima and Yakuza on board I'm never buying an Xbox console

Click to shrink...

 

[Deleted member 4247]

Whole lotta nothing there, he doesn't really address why MS has been so utterly left behind in the 1st party exclusive battle.

 

[Figments]

I just don't see how Microsoft can stop from falling behind at their current trajectory. Gamepass is their biggest selling point.

Halo could be amazing for all we know but you can't sell a system on just one IP.

Click to shrink...

People bought the OG Xbox for Halo.

People bought the Switch for Breath of the Wild.

Getting a killer app is all it takes for people to hop on board, and this has been proven time and time again.

 

[jviggy43]

People bought the OG Xbox for Halo.

People bought the Switch for Breath of the Wild.

Getting a killer app is all it takes for people to hop on board, and this has been proven time and time again.

Click to shrink...

The problem is 343 are not capable of making a game on the level of OG halo (or 2 or 3). Each iteration theyve changed how the game fundamentally plays because their previous entry hasnt stuck and now 2 games into their series theyre already soft rebooting it. MS cant depend on Halo like it used to with Bungie.

 

[Animal Crossing Club]

People bought the OG Xbox for Halo.

People bought the Switch for Breath of the Wild.

Getting a killer app is all it takes for people to hop on board, and this has been proven time and time again.

Click to shrink...

Maybe one of the new studios can make that killer app, but I don't think Halo, Gears or Forza is going to make it happen for Xbox next gen.

 

[Mekanos]

People bought the OG Xbox for Halo.

People bought the Switch for Breath of the Wild.

Getting a killer app is all it takes for people to hop on board, and this has been proven time and time again.

Click to shrink...

BOTW isn't even the highest selling Switch game.

 

[Deleted member 51691]

Halo could be amazing for all we know but you can't sell a system on just one IP.

Click to shrink...

Halo Infinite might just sell the Scarlett next holiday if it's fucking amazing. The IP still has a lot of brand power in the U.S.and Europe

 

[Knight613]

Feel like Halo should have skipped this generation aside from the MCC.

 

[Renna Hazel]

BOTW isn't even the highest selling Switch game.

Click to shrink...

but it still sold the console for a good portion of 2017. It definitely got people on board from the get go.

 

[OrdinaryPrime]

What does the dude have to do to shake the unfounded notion that he's all talk?

Click to shrink...

Honestly? Deliver a game of the year. Unfair or not.

 

[Deleted member 6235]

The problem is 343 are not capable of making a game on the level of OG halo (or 2 or 3). Each iteration theyve changed how the game fundamentally plays because their previous entry hasnt stuck and now 2 games into their series theyre already soft rebooting it. MS cant depend on Halo like it used to with Bungie.

Click to shrink...

considering destiny, bungie can't make stuff like halo 3 anymore too

Halo 4 sucks a LOT and Halo 5 is quite a weak entry, but at least now they're having a lot of time to try to do some new stuff, i'm curious for the result

BOTW isn't even the highest selling Switch game.

Click to shrink...

it still sold consoles.

 

[OrdinaryPrime]

I mean, Horizon dialogue animations are not good and TW3 combat is not good, but still, they are AAA RPGs
You can add Fallout 4 in the mix as well.

Click to shrink...

The quality doesn't dictate AAA, the budget does. Frozen Wilds were a marked improvement anyway.

BOTW isn't even the highest selling Switch game.

Click to shrink...

This doesn't contradict the point being made. BotW I believe is going to be the best selling Zelda ever.

 

[headspawn]

The problem is 343 are not capable of making a game on the level of OG halo (or 2 or 3). Each iteration theyve changed how the game fundamentally plays because their previous entry hasnt stuck and now 2 games into their series theyre already soft rebooting it. MS cant depend on Halo like it used to with Bungie.

Click to shrink...

Halo 1, Halo 2, Halo 3, Halo Reach and Halo ODST all play very differently from each other as well though.

Maybe I'm the odd man out, but I'm totally okay with a soft reboot; from a story POV I think it started to backslide a bit with Halo 5 and was so long and drawn out it wasn't really worth iterating down that path.. or at least I'm glad they aren't.

 

[Mekanos]

but it still sold the console for a good portion of 2017. It definitely got people on board from the get go.

Click to shrink...

But the Switch isn't going to move units for the next 5-7 years solely because of it. Microsoft has struggled to establish an array of reliable IP. It can't launch with Halo and then expect Halo alone to keep the console flow moving. Even the Switch took a hit in H2 2018 because the only new software was Smash and Pokemon.

 

[blitzblake]

is the only "negative" to unionisation the fact that corporations couldnt work their employees into the ground and then toss them aside once they've outlived their purpose, anymore?

 

[Animal Crossing Club]

considering destiny, bungie can't make stuff like halo 3 anymore too

Halo 4 sucks a LOT and Halo 5 is quite a weak entry, but at least now they're having a lot of time to try to do some new stuff, i'm curious for the result

Click to shrink...

I just don't see Halo catching the imagination of people like Breath of the Wild. I definitely don't see a pretty average studio like 343 pulling off what Nintendo did.

 

[Pabz]

My problem with Phil is he says the right things, but they continue to fall flat with me because nothing really changes. U could argue 1st party games have gotten worse recently

 

[Deleted member 6235]

I just don't see Halo catching the imagination of people like Breath of the Wild. I definitely don't see a pretty average studio like 343 pulling off what Nintendo did.

Click to shrink...

BOTW is one of my favorite games of all times and so is Halo 3 (and Halo 3 actually sold more than BOTW), so i don't see it being impossible for the franchise, but i agree with you in that i don't think 343 can pull this off

 

[OrdinaryPrime]

I just don't see Halo catching the imagination of people like Breath of the Wild. I definitely don't see a pretty average studio like 343 pulling off what Nintendo did.

Click to shrink...

Halo is a first person shooter. I don't know if they can even pull a DOOM (2016) and reinvigorate the IP.

 

[jviggy43]

considering destiny, bungie can't make stuff like halo 3 anymore too

Halo 4 sucks a LOT and Halo 5 is quite a weak entry, but at least now they're having a lot of time to try to do some new stuff, i'm curious for the result



it still sold consoles.

Click to shrink...

All true. Halo in general doesnt seem to be something they can depend on.

Halo 1, Halo 2, Halo 3, Halo Reach and Halo ODST all play very differently from each other as well though.

Click to shrink...

Reach was a spinoff that they used to set up the framework of Destiny. 1, 2 and 3 aren't that different and certainly didnt need a soft reboot 2 games in. Not to mention 1, 2 and 3 werent met with lukewarm responses at best and outcries at worst.