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ActWan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,334
https://kotaku.com/the-last-of-us-p...witter&utm_campaign=Socialflow_Kotaku_Twitter

Neil talks about the violence in the trailer, about the AI, and more.
The main talking point to me is the violence - Neil sheds some light on it:
The demo was very violent, as was the game's trailer at Paris Games Weeklate last year. It's made some critics recoil. I asked Druckmann if he'd heard that feedback and what he made of it.

"We're making a game about the cycle of violence and we're making a statement about violent actions and the impact they have on the character that's committing them and on the people close to them," he said. "And our whole approach is to say, 'We want to treat this as realistically as possible.' When you stab someone—if you watch reference videos, which we have, it's gross and it's messy and it's not sanitized like you see in most movies and games. And we wanted to get the player to feel that."

The idea, he underscored, was "for the player to feel repulsed by some of the violence they are committing themselves. It felt like that is the most honest way to tell this story."

One person's video game violence is another person's video game fun. For better and at times for worse, the very essence of fun interaction in video games has deep roots in violent interaction, from the primitive days of one batch of pixels causing another to blink out of existence to modern times, when blinking an enemy out of existence often involves a gory finishing move.

Fun in video games, I suggested to Druckmann, often goes hand in hand with virtual violence. "This might be a semantic argument," he replied, "But we don't use the word 'fun' with The Last Of Us. We say 'engaging.' It needs to be engaging. If the stakes are real, if you are invested in the character and their relationship, you're going to go through and commit these actions that might—and should be—at times making you feel uncomfortable to progress in the story, to see what's happened to the character and at times to struggle with their motivation versus your moral line.

"The kind of stories we tell, with strong specific characters, we like that at times you're not in line with the character. It kind of makes you question philosophically: where do I stand on these things? And that was a big part of the first game and a lot of the stuff we learned from the first game we're applying to this game."

Great insight to why they decided to go with this direction and I fully support it.
 

stinkyguy666

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,147
Isn't all violence designed to be repulsive...??

EDIT: okay I've been seeing a lot of replies bring up stuff like Mortal Kombat and DOOM, which, yeah, the violence in those games definitely not meant to be repulsive. In those games it's a sort of reward so I guess I was wrong.

EDIT 2: also getting a lot of replies along the lines of "lol u stupid" and, like, damn, i'm sorry u feel this way :'(
 
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Beartruck

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,939
Well it worked. I was audibly repulsed when one of Elly's headshots blew out an enemies' cheek.
 

Cess007

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,086
B.C., Mexico
"The kind of stories we tell, with strong specific characters, we like that at times you're not in line with the character. It kind of makes you question philosophically: where do I stand on these things? And that was a big part of the first game and a lot of the stuff we learned from the first game we're applying to this game."

I love this bit, because all this is encapsulated in the Hospital final scene in TLOU. And it's one that has bring a lot of debate over the years

Isn't all violence designed to be repulsive...??

Not always. As Neil points out, some violence (specially when it's a character you're supposed to like) is designed to be as little as repulsive as possible, otherwise, you may stop liking the character and his/her actions.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,300
Isn't all violence designed to be repulsive...??
In this medium violence is typically designed to be as fun as possible. Like unapologetically most games advertise themselves as "Yea bro come play have some fun kill some enemies woooo." Which makes this quote VERY interesting:

Fun in video games, I suggested to Druckmann, often goes hand in hand with virtual violence. "This might be a semantic argument," he replied, "But we don't use the word 'fun' with The Last Of Us. We say 'engaging.' It needs to be engaging.
 

potatohead

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,889
Earthbound
Appropriate for the game and setting

TV shows have already gone far further with shows like spartacus and in that it was far more gratuitous
 

OSHAN

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,931
Isn't all violence designed to be repulsive...??

giphy.gif
 

Jawbreaker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,411
New York City
I want more of this in games. I want to be challenged and repulsed. I want to feel the actions I'm engaged in on a more personal level that could even make me question my morals. I'm so happy they're uncompromising in their vision.
 

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,276
Nice.

What I like is that the team actual has this in their mind while working on their story. The gutting was what really got to me but it was straight up depiction.

No pretty last words, no Hollywood escapes

Just really ugly final moments.
 

PaddingtonDidntDoIt

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
May 8, 2018
698
Ironically, one of the few games that doesn't glorify it and show for what gruesome violence really is, and people say they can't handle it. They'd rather go back to shooting others online, with realistically detailed and glorified FPV gun shooting, sniping, stabbing, with all of the consequences of their actions being hidden from them.

The gaming industry is trash.
 

Betty

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,604
And I love it, the hit detection on enemies and how they react to it is delicious, but seeing that bullet hole and blood spurt on that woman was rough, as it should be.
 

DevilMayGuy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,577
Texas
I certainly cringed at some of the violence in the demo.
Despite that, I can't fucking wait for this game.
Isn't all violence designed to be repulsive...??
Obviously not. I don't even understand how you can ask that if you've played violent games in the last four decades. Many games positively reveal in violence, like GoW (rip, stab version), GoW (chainsaw version), Mortal Kombat, Doom... and pretty much every other violent game ever made. The violence in these games is over the top, but meant to make the player feel like a badass rather than to shock their sensibilities and disgust them.
 

Jombie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,392
I understand where he's coming from, but I don't think it's going to have the desired effect on most people.
 

balohna

Member
Nov 1, 2017
4,152
Fine line to walk. I'll play it, but IMO unless the story and gameplay actually address it too they are basically still doing it for fun. Which is fine too.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,814
Exactly. Violence on this scale has you feel the weight of the character's choices and the struggle to survive. The violence we enact on others in TLOU is all out of self defense/survival. It's never malicious
 

Daebo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,276
Cincinnati
I will say, and I hope I dont come off as paranoid, but I just worry if you make it too realistic, and there are people who end up enjoying it too much.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,558
I kinda feel the statement about violence in TLOU gameplay wise doesn't work because they made the game feel really good in terms of last of us one.

Cutscene wise its raw, but the in game actions feel really good.

Spec Ops I think makes a better statement on violence because the game is not enjoyable at all.

Feels weird saying a game struggles with its narrative because its fun, but TLOU is just a good feeling video game
 

bluexy

Comics Enabler & Freelance Games Journalist
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
14,510
Huh, I couldn't really tell any difference between The Last of Us 2's "repulsive" violence and pretty much any other game that really brims on the fetishization of ultra-violence.
 

CountAntonio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,701
This was my response after the demo.
These death animations are so realistic it's a new level of graphic.

The deaths were unsettling. No exaggerated blood spurts or ragdoll animation. When she shot the woman underneath the car the way she reacts and falls lifeless you can almost see the life leave her. It's not something I think I've seen in gaming.
 

LQX

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,871
Ghost of Tsushima looks elegant
Speaking of Ghost of Tsushima, there seems to be hardly any issues with the violence it or Resident Evil 2 depicted, yet many are taking issues with the Last of Us Part II. I think I know why but the hypocrisy from some is still very grating.
 

Aokiji

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,265
Los Angeles
Isn't all violence designed to be repulsive...??
Definitely not in gaming. Just look at saints row.

Speaking of Ghost of Tsushima, there seems to be hardly any issues with the violence it or Resident Evil 2 depicted, yet many are taking issues with the Last of Us Part II. I think I know why but the hypocrisy from some is still very grating.
It is hypocrisy. Just look at the reactions to the ultra violence of Cyberpunk 2077 that people saw
 

Punished Goku

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,952
I understand where He's coming from, and Even though the brutality didn't push me away. I feel like this is going to backfire with the critics. Demo was God tier.
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,135
Isn't all violence designed to be repulsive...??
I don't believe that is the case in anything fiction/entertainment. Violence gets romanticized a lot.
Take the XMen movies before Logan with Wolverine just being a "cool" fighter despite kinda butchering his enemies the way those scenes are shot are def not repulsive. Take Lord of the Rings the books and how it describes its battles. Really look at a lot of fiction with a critical eye and it becomes pretty clear that there different ways to frame/stage violance.
 

SolidSnakex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,340
E3 conference audience didnt quite seem to catch that

I've watched a lot of reactions so far, and while some definitely cheer the violence, it seems like most cringe during it. Some covering their eyes or just looking away. Like when the guy is gutted or when Ellie is chopping the big guys head off. It makes people uncomfortable.
 

Papaya

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,474
California
That's how it was designed in the first. They really pushed it forward this time. Excited to see what the final product actually looks like!