Late Show w/Colbert: Full Extended Interview with Rep. Ilhan Omar

[Ichthyosaurus]

All Lives Matter is not poorly worded phrasing, it is literally word for word a far right racist motto and Pelosi said it to a black person asking about Black Lives Matter.

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You say that like Omar's never said any racially insensitive language of her own, or been viewed as such by those who have been discriminated against (Jewish Democrats, btw).

The fact that you're equating that with Ilhan Omar talking about lobbyists in a glib manner speaks volumes.

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It was a random quote, anything would have done. Of course there was no possibility this argument would have convinced you of it since political PR isn't a priority for you, something which all politicians need to get right to have their guard up when speaking openly. Which is why you're still viewing Omar as a civilian rather than a politician where words matter as much as what the message they're sending.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

You say that like Omar's never said any racially insensitive language of her own, or been viewed as such by those who have been discriminated against (Jewish Democrats, btw).



It was a random quote, anything would have done. Of course there was no possibility this argument would have convinced you of it since political PR isn't a priority for you, something which all politicians need to get right to have their guard up when speaking openly. Which is why you're still viewing Omar as a civilian rather than a politician where words matter as much as what the message they're sending.

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Dude.

Pelosi looked a black woman in the eyes and said All Lives Matter.

 

[Jersey_Tom]

You do realize no matter what she does whether perfect or imperfect she is going to be attacked. She is a black, muslim, woman in america who has a propensity to speak her mind.

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And speaking your mind isn't exactly always the best quality to have because "speaking your mind" also tends to land people in hot water. The person who's been most praised for speaking his mind is Trump and we know how that shitshow goes. Just because you believe she's going to be attacked no matter what she does is not a greenlight for her to just spouting problematic statements. Scourched Earth ain't the best political policy.

Also a lot more people need to be up in arms about the constant attacks against her because of who she is but I am sure they would rather tone police her instead being her ally. I mean the constant attacks only ramp up the chance of her being attacked by a member of the republican party with physical violence. I mean we are only months removed from that trump supporter sending bombs to people in the mail and another guy just got arrested for threatening her over the phone.

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The zero-to-sixty mindset of someone like me saying "hey there, politician I like, I think the thing you said in that speech was problematic and a little insensitive. I hope you do better next time" suddenly being an invitation for her to be murdered is absolutely absurd. As I previously suggested for someone else, please walk away from the keyboard and take a breath because the overreaction to me suggesting maybe she said something disappointing to me is far more out there than anything I've said in this thread. Relax.

Oh look, you're Being all Boogie about this again.

But yes, continue doing the thing that you always do which is to criticize her and to side with Republicans. Sure, Signal boost more Islamophobia, that's certainly a "Progressive ™" thing to do. Sure, continue doing the Ｒａｔｉｏｎａｌ and ＡＤＵＬＴ thing of victim-blaming Omar.


Hey, why are you more willing to criticize Omar instead of supporting her? Shouldn't the dems Unify?

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Case in point right here. Suddenly I'm siding with Republicans and inviting actual harm on her. Someone else mentioned Joe Biden in this thread. Why aren't you unifying around him if we should just be blindly unifying around politicians? Or is it because he's said and done some problematic things on his own that makes it hard to support him? With Omar it's not even as serious as him, which is why I'm still very much in support of her but think she needs to be a bit more careful going forward when making a prepared statement in her official capacity as a Representative of the House. That's all. Yet somehow my feelings on the matter turn into an endorsement for her to be harmed. That's asinine.

Also to say I've never supported her or suggest I'm unwilling to support her is incorrect. I think you need to step back and not make assumptions on someone's posting history or political opinions without making yourself look like a raving fool.

 

[Ichthyosaurus]

Dude.

Pelosi looked a black woman in the eyes and said All Lives Matter.

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And Omar made anti-Semitic remarks which upset Jewish Democrats. Unlike myself, who condemns both remarks severely for their problematic language, your concern for the latter is nowhere to be seen.

Predictable. Completely ignoring the meat of my argument about the underlying structure of politics with PR, but that would admit a liberal was right about something and we're only here to lash out at when a Republican attacks Omar. I mean, it's not like the Republicans are the main party responsible for this atmosphere. No, they're just bystanders in all this.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

And Omar made anti-Semitic remarks which upset Jewish Democrats. Unlike myself, who condemns both remarks severely for their problematic language, your concern for the latter is nowhere to be seen.

Predictable. Completely ignoring the meat of my argument about the underlying structure of politics with PR, but that would admit a liberal was right about something and we're only here to lash out at when a Republican attacks Omar. I mean, it's not like the Republicans are the main party responsible for this atmosphere. No, they're just bystanders in all this.

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Except I did accept that Omar's "Israel has hypnotised the world" was definitely an anti-Semitic trope and never defended her choice of words in that instance.

What I haven't done is twist myself into knots trying to deliberately misrepresent what Ilhan Omar said on other occasions and go into concern troll mode tone-policing someone that is the victim of bad faith smear campaigns.

Just because some Jewish people were upset by her words doesn't mean they are automatically anti-Semitic, just like British Asians being offended by characters in Jurassic World referring to a dinosaur as a Pachy (Paki) even though hearing it hurts the same way hearing a racial slur does.

But yeah, keep on equating criticism of lobbyists with Pelosi telling a black woman All Lives Matter because 'politics', 'PR' and 'leftists' while the Republicans that you claim to hate so much are trying to get Ilhan Omar assassinated for telling the truth.

 

[Deleted member 48897]

However, speaking as a person who has a very personal connection to 9/11 for instance, who every day goes to work and from the 50th floor of my building sees the footprints of two buildings that were brought down by maniacs who hijacked four planes and killed thousands of people, I think it's a little insensitive to simply refer to that in the same reverence as what you'd call a group of kids who shoplifted candy from a convenience store.

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I discussed this elsewhere on the forum:

the sarcastic-commenter whisperer has logged-on

The utter lack of context and nuance in Sen. Omar's commentary accurately reflects the amount of consideration and thoughtfulness with which the Bush administration responded to the attacks. One need only point to starting the war in Iraq at how little the administration actually cared about what the reality of the situation was, not to even get into the fact that all this time Saudi Arabia has been considered one of our allies despite having been the country of citizenship for the vast majority of the people who actually committed the acts in discussion here.

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What Rep. Omar is saying here only sounds insensitive because we have become so desensitized to our domestic and international rights abuses done for the sake of retribution. The people who are criticizing her are not doing so out of consideration for the people who actually attempted to keep people safe during the attacks. Rep. Omar is sponsoring legislation to provide benefits to 9/11 victims. NYDN (which is, at least, the sort of journalism that NY Post wishes it could be) would suggest Crenshaw can barely be bothered to care. Those actions speak far more than a few vague words meant mainly to chart out the history of fascist policy creep in recent American history.

The party that got us into war with Iraq and Afghanistan has no concern for the rights or well-being of Muslims, nor do they have any interest in portraying the truth.

 

[bdbdbd]

Except the whole point that she was making was that some people did something completely unrelated to other people, like her and every other Muslim-American, who were paying the price. Apparently still paying the price.

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See, personally I would think that provides all the more reason not to underplay the weight of the event when it has such far reaching negative impact beyond just those immediately attacked/victimized by it.

I don't see how that's any more empathetic. What is the effective difference between "bad" and "monstrous/vile/unforgivable", given the context of what was being said.

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"bad" is fine too, if that's what she had said. But, she just says, "some people did something."

Omar stated, to an audience fighting injustice and discrimination, that they as a whole shouldn't suffer oppression because "some people did something". That statement doesn't minimize the tragedy of 9/11.

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I don't think you could come up with a much more generic, homogenized and innocuous way of referring to an event as "some people did something" other than perhaps, "something happened". And it wouldn't take more than a single adjective appended like "horrible" or "terrible" at the end to swing the impression of the statement's accuracy such that no rational observer would classify it as exaggerating the tragedy by contrast.

So, yes, she's not entirely minimizing the tragedy of 9/11 since she is speaking about the injustice and oppression spawned in part by that event, but she is certainly minimizing the tragedy of the event itself with that statement.

 

[Deleted member 8860]

But, she just says, "some people did something."

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She says more than that. Did you read/watch the full speech or just the sentence fragment?

 

[Jersey_Tom]

I discussed this elsewhere on the forum:


What Rep. Omar is saying here only sounds insensitive because we have become so desensitized to our domestic and international rights abuses done for the sake of retribution. The people who are criticizing her are not doing so out of consideration for the people who actually attempted to keep people safe during the attacks. Rep. Omar is sponsoring legislation to provide benefits to 9/11 victims. NYDN (which is, at least, the sort of journalism that NY Post wishes it could be) would suggest Crenshaw can barely be bothered to care. Those actions speak far more than a few vague words meant mainly to chart out the history of fascist policy creep in recent American history.

The party that got us into war with Iraq and Afghanistan has no concern for the rights or well-being of Muslims, nor do they have any interest in portraying the truth.

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Well let's not get too crazy with praising the NYDN. Being better than The Post isn't exactly what you'd call a high bar to reach.

And yeah that co-sponsoring of the 9/11 Victim's Compensation Fund is great. I wish in her original response to Crenshaw she brought up that fact. That still doesn't mean that she didn't generate a soundbite that doesn't come off well. It's not a "words don't matter" situation here, not for people who actually have some sort of relation to the event. I'm sorry but you can't really take the emotion out of that "something" that effected the lives of roughly a million people around the tri-state area.

None of this again has anything to do with the Republican party. And if we want to start blaming people from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, nearly the entirety of our government is to blame for those catastrophes as well as harmful legislation if we want to talk about portraying the truth of the matter.

As I've made quite clear throughout this thread, I'm more than aware of what she was attempting to talk about and that what she's fighting for is something that is important and I wholeheartedly support. Saying that I found part of her prepared remarks to come off as insensitive is not a complete refusal of those stances. I seriously don't know why that's so hard for people to comprehend, so much so that it's beginning to feel like people are just intentionally misrepresenting what I'm saying in order to have a better position to argue against me for pointing out that she needs to probably be a bit more cautious with her prepared remarks, given that this isn't the first time she's unintentionally hurt people.

 

[bdbdbd]

She says more than that. Did you read the full speech or just the sentence fragment?

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I haven't watched the whole speech but I did read the transcript and watched that portion of her speech, so not just that particular fragment.

 

[Jmanunknown]

And speaking your mind isn't exactly always the best quality to have because "speaking your mind" also tends to land people in hot water. The person who's been most praised for speaking his mind is Trump and we know how that shitshow goes. Just because you believe she's going to be attacked no matter what she does is not a greenlight for her to just spouting problematic statements. Scourched Earth ain't the best political policy.

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She is not going scorched earth its only scorched earth if the person reading her words are always taking it as an attack or getting offended and the only reason that would be possible is if they have an ulterior motive. The one time she said something that truly could be misconstrued as an anti-semitic attack she apologized for and even that was not enough.

The zero-to-sixty mindset of someone like me saying "hey there, politician I like, I think the thing you said in that speech was problematic and a little insensitive. I hope you do better next time" suddenly being an invitation for her to be murdered is absolutely absurd. As I previously suggested for someone else, please walk away from the keyboard and take a breath because the overreaction to me suggesting maybe she said something disappointing to me is far more out there than anything I've said in this thread. Relax.

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Thanks mister or miss tone police I did what you suggested walked away from the keyboard relaxed and come to the conclusion that your words are still problematic and a little insensitive because what your saying could be misconstrued as tone policing of a minority lady and that is what disingenuous allies do with minority people sometimes.

 

[Schlep]

See, personally I would think that provides all the more reason not to underplay the weight of the event when it has such far reaching negative impact beyond just those immediately attacked/victimized by it.

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You're asking anyone who ever talks about anything to say it in a certain way or risk having their character attacked. Her dialogue was concerning the treatment of Muslim-Americans in this country, but because she didn't adequately condemn the 9/11 attack for your and conservative tastes almost 20 years after the fact, it's now about whether or not she's American enough. That kind of feeds into her original point. There's no scenario where this isn't a bad faith attack.

 

[gcwy]

I just wanna say fuck Pelosi, Warren and other center-left Dems and their white center-left supporters.

 

[manchego obfuscator]

I just wanna say fuck Pelosi, Warren and other center-left Dems and their white center-left supporters.

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wait what did Warren do

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

wait what did Warren do

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They might be talking about this:

Elizabeth Warren warns of 'demographic realities, births… bearing down on Israel' — racist code for Palestinian babies

 

[Ichthyosaurus]

Except I did accept that Omar's "Israel has hypnotised the world" was definitely an anti-Semitic trope and never defended her choice of words in that instance.

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Fair enough.

What I haven't done is twist myself into knots trying to deliberately misrepresent what Ilhan Omar said on other occasions and go into concern troll mode tone-policing someone that is the victim of bad faith smear campaigns.

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Except that's not what I've done. It never seemed to occur to you I might be operating in good faith, as that would disrupt the narrative that Omar might have made a mistake. Any mistake. This is a minor issue, but rather than treat it as such you'd rather focus your energy on a mild disagreement with Democrats rather than the Republicans who are trying to kill her.

Just because some Jewish people were upset by her words doesn't mean they are automatically anti-Semitic, just like British Asians being offended by characters in Jurassic World referring to a dinosaur as a Pachy (Paki) even though hearing it hurts the same way hearing a racial slur does.

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Again, not listening when minority voices because they don't agree with you. Disagree with them, fine - but attempt to examine people who don't have the same opinions as you that they can do so with good intentions and that they deserve to be heard in good faith. It doesn't matter whether the intention was racist or not, people try not to trigger phrases and words like that because of those harms. Your argument implies the people who made those errors shouldn't apologise for them or try to avoid them in the future. It's baffling.

But yeah, keep on equating criticism of lobbyists with Pelosi telling a black woman All Lives Matter because 'politics', 'PR' and 'leftists' while the Republicans that you claim to hate so much are trying to get Ilhan Omar assassinated for telling the truth.

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Republicans: *tries to kill Omar*

Democrats: Maybe she could have worded her speeches better.

The Left: Both sides are the same!

Do you acknowledge PR is a big factor in politics?

 

[Deleted member 7130]

Any scumbag pilling on her (whether Democrat, Republican, or anything else) is taking on the possibility of having blood on their hands. These are dangerous times when right wing extremists feel emboldened enough to target just about anyone with violence at Trump's mention. Having people in both parties publicly demonizing a high profile person like her with direct involvement in leftist political affairs is recklessly dangerous to the highest degree.

 

[UnpopularBlargh]

The Left: Both sides are the same!

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Hey. Look. A shitty man made of straw among a pile of disengenuous bullcrap.

 

[DOT_mjo]

We really must protect her at all costs.

 

[Ichthyosaurus]

Hey. Look. A shitty man made of straw among a pile of disengenuous bullcrap.

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It's a shitty take alright, it ceases to be straw man when I see it in this and other threads whenever Omar is bought up.

 

[UnpopularBlargh]

It's a shitty take alright, it ceases to be straw man when I see it in this and other threads whenever Omar is bought up.

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Uh huh. People criticizing and venting about Dems actions (or lack thereof) doesn't mean they think they're equivalent to the Republicans in awfulness.

 

[Ichthyosaurus]

Uh huh. People criticizing and venting about Dems actions (or lack thereof) doesn't mean they think they're equivalent to the Republicans in awfulness.

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Then you haven't been paying attention to the people I've been argued with or who have been conflating the two in those threads.

 

[UnpopularBlargh]

Then you haven't been paying attention to the people I've been argued with or who have been conflating the two in those threads.

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Oh my god. You figured it out. I'm sure those few posters make up the majority of the left!

Spoiler

/s

Anyway here's a good post made by Frozenprince in the other thread:

We all know that Trump is a virulent fucking bigot, we've known that for 40 years. I'm sorry I don't find it conducive to constantly talk more about that fact when we can use his bigotry and avowed open hatred to figure out what issues there are within the DCCC. That's how dialogue works, that's how we solve problems. Instead of lashing out at people that see a problem in both aspects of this, maybe we can instead try and, you know, change the DCCC so that what happened to Rep. Omar doesn't happen again.

It's okay to be critical of the DCCC, doing so is not dismissing or not admonishing Trump.

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[Ichthyosaurus]

Oh my god. You figured it out. I'm sure those few posters make up the majority of the left!

Spoiler

/s

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You're admitting this is a problem with the Left on this forum. Progress! And a "few" posters lol Even now you're barely acknowledging the toxicity on the left, but condemn it outright? That's a line you're not crossing. Be better, as the saying goes.

Anyway here's a good post made by Frozenprince in the other thread:

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How does fixing the DCCC stop the Left being toxic?

 

[UnpopularBlargh]

You're admitting this is a problem with the Left on this forum. Progress! And a "few" posters lol Even now you're barely acknowledging the toxicity on the left, but condemn it outright? That's a line you're not crossing. Be better, as the saying goes.



How does fixing the DCCC stop the Left being toxic?

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You're being intentionally obtuse or your reading comprehension is spotty. Be better yourself.

 

[Ichthyosaurus]

You're being intentionally obtuse or your reading comprehension is spotty. Be better yourself.

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I'm not the one defending posters who are saying "both sides." You, however, are. How is that being better? And stop with the gaslighting. You know exactly what they're doing.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

Fair enough.



Except that's not what I've done. It never seemed to occur to you I might be operating in good faith, as that would disrupt the narrative that Omar might have made a mistake. Any mistake. This is a minor issue, but rather than treat it as such you'd rather focus your energy on a mild disagreement with Democrats rather than the Republicans who are trying to kill her.



Again, not listening when minority voices because they don't agree with you. Disagree with them, fine - but attempt to examine people who don't have the same opinions as you that they can do so with good intentions and that they deserve to be heard in good faith. It doesn't matter whether the intention was racist or not, people try not to trigger phrases and words like that because of those harms. Your argument implies the people who made those errors shouldn't apologise for them or try to avoid them in the future. It's baffling.



Republicans: *tries to kill Omar*

Democrats: Maybe she could have worded her speeches better.

The Left: Both sides are the same!

Do you acknowledge PR is a big factor in politics?

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When did I ever say both sides are the same?

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

I'm not the one defending posters who are saying "both sides." You, however, are. How is that being better? And stop with the gaslighting. You know exactly what they're doing.

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This is fucking rich coming from someone that has been doing just that across multiple threads.

 

[Ichthyosaurus]

This is fucking rich coming from someone that has been doing just that across multiple threads.

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Projecting, as usual.

When did I ever say both sides are the same?

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You do this all the time.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

Projecting, as usual.



You do this all the time.

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Should be easy to find examples then.

Pointing out that Dems are complicit in the smear campaign is not saying both sides are the same.

 

[Sloth Guevara]

Look it's the dinofish guy goin all out to once again crap on a black Muslim woman.

 

[Iloelemen]

Projecting, as usual.



You do this all the time.

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Yeah, let's ignore the both-sides-ing you frequently do.

 

[Ichthyosaurus]

Yeah, let's ignore the both-sides-ing you frequently do.

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Please, when I do it at least I make it about things about extreme over reactions. It's not a default setting I have for the Left.

Should be easy to find examples then.

Pointing out that Dems are complicit in the smear campaign is not saying both sides are the same.

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Thank you, you just did. It'd be one thing to do this to someone like Schumer, it's quite another to paint anyone who says maybe she should have phrased what she was say better to not offend other groups in the Democratic coalition, yet the latter examples to you are identical to what Trump and the GOP are doing. There is no grey area allowed.

Look it's the dinofish guy goin all out to once again crap on a black Muslim woman.

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So you're fine alienating Democrats who would be your allies with language which they could perceived as anti-semitic. Glad we cleared that up.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

Thank you, you just did

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Lmao

With that level of reading comprehension no wonder you struggle so much with the discussion around Ilhan Omar.

So you're fine alienating Democrats who would be your allies with language which they could perceived as anti-semitic. Glad we cleared that up.

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"Democrats who would be your allies" who can't come up with better proof of their allyship than "Well who else are you gonna vote for?" while throwing minorities under the bus.

Sure they want to be allies.

Fucking typical of you that you continue to put the onus on the oppressed and powerless and not the people that have the public status and clout to actually make a difference. It's always minorities that have to make the move and accept our lives and concerns are second class priorities because the careers of the rich and powerful establishment folks are, and always will be, more important.

The fucking nerve of you to keep trotting out this bullshit "well we would be your allies if..."

It just proves for the umpteenth time that you are no ally for people of colour because being an ally isn't conditional on you getting what you want first before you will deign to give a fuck about whether minorities are being discriminated every fucking day.

But keep on yelling "BUT WHY WON'T YOU LET US BE ALLIES" and concern trolling about the evil leftists like the fucking joke poster you are.