Lately, I am a little worried about the processing power of PS5/series X. Am I alone?

[mcruz79]

I am a huge fan of graphics technology in games but is undeniable for me how much more pleasurable Is to play games at 60fps instead of 30fps, specially games with first person view and games that require aim.

Today I was playing the campaign of Crossfire X and it feels really terrible in 30fps, like if the game is almost in slow down.
Even loving the feel of 60fps, I had to play Ratchet and clank, Miles Morales, guardians of the galaxy, forza horizon 5, all in graphics mode because honestly the 60FPS version had always big trades in visuals.

Now with even digital foundry thinking that is better to play Forbidden West in graphics mode because of the lack in image in the performance mode, I am really getting worried about the power of this new consoles.

Dont get me wrong, the games nowadays are beautiful for me, but honestly, apart from that demo of hellblade 2 ( that looks clearly a 30fps game for me), I am really not seeing some really new rendering revolution, apart from the so hyped ray tracing, that justifies so many restrictions for this games running in 60fps with the visuals of the graphics mode.

I am not a technical guy so, I honestly don't know what can really be achieved in this new consoles but seeing amazing technical wizards developers like Guerrilla Games, Playground Games, Insomniac and some others having to make sacrifices to make his games run in 60fps is a little worrying in my opinion.

I think I will be totally ok if the games could have graphics mode with ray tracing/30fps and the performance mode being 60fps without ray tracing but with the exactly same other graphical features of the graphics mode but that isn't happening.

I would love to read more of the more technical guys here of the forum about this.
This machines are really already being pushed to its limits that 60fps is not achievable with the visuals of the Horizon Forbidden West and Forza Horizon 5 in his graphics mode for exemple?

 

[Mobius 1]

We barely have titles that were developed exclusively for these machines. Give them time, we already have evidence that there will be amazing advancements such as the UE5 Matrix demo.

Oh and the 60fps-by-default dream is just that. A dream. It is not strictly necessary for a great experience or for every genre.

 

[Gabaghoul582]

A terrible game playing terribly has now worried you?

 

[Landy828]

Wait for the next 2 years of games before worrying about anything. Current-Gen only with lots of development time are coming as early as this Holiday.

We should start seeing exclusives that really push the systems.

I'm really curious to see Forza Motorsport and what Turn 10 has done with 5 years of development.

 

[platocplx]

You're alone. And many of you have extremely narrow view points on game development. 30FPS vs 60FPS will always have trade offs.

It's physically impossible to have the same amount of bells and whistles in a 33ms frame as much as you have as 16ms without paying significantly more money for a powerful system.

Which is where high end PC gaming comes into play to give you what you want. But you will be paying a lot more to get that.

I think you need to reset what you think consoles should be and can be at their price points.

And these consoles are probally the most flexible technically than we've ever had.

 

[EraLurker24]

I think the main concern is lack of ray tracing capability and how quickly PC gpus will eclipse what's in the PS5/XSX.

But I don't think it's a huge issue unless you're expecting photorealistic CGI visuals at 60fps this gen. I'm expecting like 60fps PS4 pro games with bells and whistles. Honestly the true improvements I'm hoping for are with the AI and physics/world simulation, as the CPU is just leaps and bounds ahead of what's in last gen.

 

[Theswweet]

They were the most powerful machines Sony/MS could make at the time of their launch. Don't worry about it.

 

[Tohsaka]

You shouldn't be expecting native 4k 60FPS in AAA open world games period, even with $1000 graphics cards on PC it can be hard.

 

[SaintBowWow]

There is always a graphical trade off in running a game at twice the frame rate because you're rendering twice as many frames. The best looking games possible on a given console are always going to be achieved by sacrificing frame rate. I don't know why so many people refuse to accept this.

 

[NekoNeko]

I agree. PS5Pro can't come fast enough 😪

 

[kimbo99]

Man, I'm playing on Xbox one and PS4 and still wowed at how great some games perform. I think your examples are just poorly put together games. I heard Crossfire had major issues when it released last week

 

[Firmus_Anguis]

Lol at CrossfireX being used as anything other than a measurement for a horrible game.

We've yet to see anything, OP.

Blame cross-gen and the pandemic. We'll see glimpses in 2022 (a reveal of RE4?) and 2023 onward will be pretty insane.

 

[JRedCX]

I mean what do you think the console are? A mega PC with a RTX3090?

Doing native 4k is complex for any machine. The console power is great for the price.

And btw I don't know what you say about DF recommending x mode when they didn't. John said that he played mostly in the resolution mode because it's native 4K he didn't said it was better or recommend any mode.

 

[mute]

60fps was always going to have tradeoffs and bigger ones as time goes on.

 

[DontHateTheBacon]

I'm not worried about it. We haven't even really started getting into the second wave of current-gen only games, where the learnings from the first wave can be applied.

We barely have current gen only games right now.

But also, if you're expected 60fps, native 4K, with raytracing and all the bells and whistles from these boxes, that just seems unlikely, but that's OK.

 

[KingOfIceland]

Did you react the same when games like Just Cause 3 and Lichdom: Battlemage came out for PS4/Xbox One?

 

[gabegabe]

There's nothing to do about console, OP. If you want something more powerful then buy a PC.

They were the most powerful machines Sony/MS could make at the time of their launch. Don't worry about it.

Click to shrink...

Also, this.

 

[PlayerOne]

Unfortunately 60fps won't provide what 30fps can, but there is a better option: 40fps! I love 40fps in ratchet and on PC, difference between 30 and 40 is night and day and rendering budget remains pretty big.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

You are not alone. And there is an easy/obvious solution: We need mid-gen consoles so us enthusiasts have a way to experience quality mode and 60fps at the same time. Theoretically we could see them as soon as next year (going by the launch date for PS4 Pro).

 

[Nameless]

Once tools and engines are specifically targeting the hardware think you'll see there's nothing to be concerned about.

 

[platocplx]

There is always a graphical trade off in running a game at twice the frame rate because you're rendering twice as many frames. The best looking games possible on a given console are always going to be achieved by sacrificing frame rate. I don't know why so many people refuse to accept this.

Click to shrink...

People think these consoles can just solve time and space.

 

[terrible1fi]

give me 60 fps all day, even if that means only 1080p resolution. Literally bought new consoles to be able to play games at 1080/60 fps like (games like destiny 2 and dying light 2 for instance)

 

[platocplx]

There's nothing to do about console, OP. If you want something more powerful then buy a PC.

Click to shrink...

It's really that simple and they will have to spend at least double the price or 3x to get what they want lol.

 

[jroc74]

Seems you arent alone....lol

But I am more than satisfied. Not even expecting or looking for mid gen refreshes. They could come and I would barely be interested.

 

[NediarPT88]

Aren't these machines really good for their price point?

I think the problem is people expecting miracles, like 4k native games at 60fps when even some last gen games struggled to hit that on cards that cost like 2 times more than these consoles.

 

[theAllseeingEYE]

60fps and Ray Tracing will always be very demanding features and require sacrifices to hit.

Even if these boxes had RX 6800 XT levels of GPU power (Same as RTX 3080 rasterization performance), developers would still push them to the brink, and any 30fps mode would still always look better than a 60fps mode.

Both of these boxes have great GPUs, incredibly good CPUs, incredibly fast SSDs. They are amazing value for their price, and incredibly good technology. When AAA new-gen exclusives like Hellblade II start to hit the market, and if they are restricted to 30fps on console, I'd say your choice is to either buy a PC or wait for mid-gen refresh consoles. I have little doubt that at least MS will offer a mid-gen console with the same CPU with a significantly faster GPU (likely RX 6800 or 6800 XT performance with better Ray Tracing performance, and possibly dedicated machine learning hardware).

The Xbox Series X has proven that people love console upgrades, and that it's important that their libraries not only stay with them, but that key games should also perform better. I would pretty much guarantee that if Series X doesn't do it, there will be another MS console down the line that will run Hellblade II at 60fps.

 

[dodo]

I think the specific expectations you have might be a bit misplaced and misinformed OP, especially using Crossfire X as an example. That being said, I think it's pretty hard to deny that the power gap between the new consoles and high end PCs is already significant, and widened very quickly.

then again, it's not like everyone has or can even get the new consoles *or* high-end PC hardware, so…

 

[cooldawn]

Yeah, I haven't been happy about the way these next-generation consoles have been utilised either...but I'm not worried about it yet. There's plenty of power in them but development needs to be more focussed. Right now it's cross-gen city which can't be ideal or optimal.

For PS5, I put it down to there not being a benchmark game released yet. We'll see one but it's taking longer than expected.

Eventually you'll be happier about it, I think.

 

[Tom Nook Says...]

idunno, I feel like gaming graphics have been consistently amazing for like a decade. If PS5/Series X were to somehow be the plateau of graphics capabilities, I really wouldn't mind. I recall the phenomena of "bullshots" that were popular around the 360/PS3 generation, and it's kinda funny to consider how graphics are now leaps and bounds beyond the fake renders studios used to release.

 

[ZeroNoir_]

if you want raw power always go PC

 

[vixolus]

Of course sacrifices will need to be made for 60, but forza and horizon were both still made primarily in mind around cross gen. And the other titles you mention are… not good to point to for technical prowess. They're consoles running rather mid tier AMD hardware. There's always going to be a limit to what they can do, but in a few years there's still going to be a handful of really exemplary games

 

[platocplx]

I think the specific expectations you have might be a bit misplaced and misinformed OP, especially using Crossfire X as an example. That being said, I think it's pretty hard to deny that the power gap between the new consoles and high end PCs is already significant, and widened very quickly.

then again, it's not like everyone has or can even get the new consoles *or* high-end PC hardware, so…

Click to shrink...

I wish you all would put the price difference when you all talk about the power gaps. What prices PC would someone have to build to get what they are asking for. And we are talking way more than 1500 at This point.

 

[Tiny Chihuahueño]

We've barely seen any games made for these machines specifically. Once crossgen is dead (which seems to be taking forever) we'll maybe begin to see some improvement in this regard

 

[the-pi-guy]

Unless there comes a day when we can render 60fps with perfect photorealism (maybe in some generations), there is always going to be trade offs for 60fps. Heck even if we do "solve" graphics, there will still be challenges and tons of room for trade offs (physics, AI, etc). There are always going to be sacrifices for a 60fps mode.

I personally really don't worry about it. I think a lot of PS4 games still look awesome.

 

[Nooblet]

Isn't Crossfire X is 60FPS?

Kind of defeats the purpose of the thread considering the game they based the thread on is 60FPS and not 30FPS like they said.

 

[jroc74]

Aren't these machines really good for their price point?

I think the problem is people expecting miracles, like 4k native games at 60fps when even some last gen games struggled to hit that on cards that cost like 2 times more than these consoles.

Click to shrink...

Honestly, the native 4K or bust brigade should have been accepted what we have by now. I remember many a debate before the new consoles launched.

Life came at some ppl mighty fast, lol. Hell, IIRC some thought native 4K at 60fps was gonna be the norm, lol.

 

[Diarrhea Day-Lewis]

I think it's far too soon to worry. I mean they're 8 cores @3.5Ghz+ right? I don't think they've been fully tapped out yet by a wide margin

 

[HStallion]

Same thing every generation. You're not going to see the really impressive stuff until at least 2 years in, probably more like 3 with how complicated and time consuming gave development is. Then by the end of the generation we'll see games that outclass those initially impressive looking titles and have people going,"Wow Uncharted 5 makes The Last of Us 3 look like a PS3 game."

 

[Deleted member 16908]

If you care about getting 60 FPS long term then you should get into PC gaming. It's the only platform where you get to decide how you want every game to look and run, and not just the ones that have performance modes.

 

[CloseTalker]

A game as big and demanding as Horizon in native 4K at 60+fps would be a feat for most well-equipped PCs, let alone a $500 console.

 

[Latvian Hitman]

If not for DLSS, the gap between the next-gen consoles and PC would feel a lot smaller than it does right now. Native 4K 60fps is still rather expensive on PC. I think the consoles are going to be fine in the long run once we get past the cross-gen phase.

 

[Vonocourt]

I mean, roughly around this time last-gen we had Witcher III regularly drop frames, and that was targeting 30fps and took months of updates to improve.

I don't see Forbidden West being 2160p in res mode, and 1800p in 60fps mode to really be a sign that these consoles have already peaked.

But also, if you're expected 60fps, native 4K, with raytracing and all the bells and whistles from these boxes, that just seems unlikely, but that's OK.

Click to shrink...

I remember the old place thinking every game was gonna be 1080p 60fps before the PS4/XBO came out... boy were we in a rude awakening.

 

[IOTS]

Now with even digital foundry thinking that is better to play Forbidden West in graphics mode because of the lack in image in the performance mode, I am really getting worried about the power of this new consoles.

Click to shrink...

4K/60 or anything close to it is incredible demanding even for last gen games. To truly get next gen technology going (like realistic wide scale destructions) they need to give up something. Resolution and framerate are rightfully the first to go.

 

[CubeApple76]

People were worried last gen too based on the performance metrics of the inital slate of "next gen" games (like 900p Battlefield 4 with drops in framerate), and yet games began to look better and better as the gen went on. I expect we will see the same as time goes on this time around.

I will say, RT performance in the new consoles is likely going to be a limiting factor especially compared to PC, but games like Metro Exodus show that doing full RT GI is possible on the systems, at 60 fps even

 

[Deleted member 23475]

It's hard to push for 4K visual, 60fps or more, ultra high definition textures and ray tracing.
These consoles are super plenty powerful compare to last gen back in 2013. Don't forget that these consoles are more or less like 2070 cards equivalent in performance, PC cards got cards above that like 3080 Ti capable of 8K. If you want so much 4K with all the extra things, you need to go to PC and you need to spend the money because even on PC doing what you wish is really expensive and is not that common to play in 4K 60 ultra.

60 FPS with high resolution is not as easy to pull off for these big modern open world games, it's not COD. I actually expect that when the cross gen area to be over that most games will go back to native 30fps on console. Hopefully they will keep the choice for the player.

 

[platocplx]

Aren't these machines really good for their price point?

I think the problem is people expecting miracles, like 4k native games at 60fps when even some last gen games struggled to hit that on cards that cost like 2 times more than these consoles.

Click to shrink...

They are some of the best price / performance right now esp with all the chip shortages.

 

[cyrribrae]

I'm still super shocked that the machines we got are as powerful as they are! They're better than the vast majority of gaming PCs out there - even those of a lot of enthusiasts. I think we'll be absolutely blown away by some of the stuff we see as the gen moves on. Horizon: FW looks amazing on PS4 and it would not have been conceivable at the start of last gen.

 

[RPGam3r]

I'm not worried bc 30fps is fine for games. There are so many games that are great, or even GOAT level, that run at 30fps or even worse.

 

[Kyoufu]

Uhh these consoles are really, really good on a hardware level.

 

[Aether]

You're alone. And many of you have extremely narrow view points on game development. 30FPS vs 60FPS will always have trade offs.

It's physically impossible to have the same amount of bells and whistles in a 33ms frame as much as you have as 16ms without paying significantly more money for a powerful system.

Which is where high end PC gaming comes into play to give you what you want. But you will be paying a lot more to get that.

I think you need to reset what you think consoles should be and can be at their price points.

And these consoles are probally the most flexible technically than we've ever had.

Click to shrink...

Yes. There are physical and financial limits, and especially in a reality where people are happy to even get consoles or graphics cards, it confuses me how some still think they dont get enough bank for the buck if they would need to pay double or trippe for a pc that capable in the current landscape...

People, adjust your expectations. Or be wealthy i guess.