It's not about not dating/sleeping with a trans person.
It's about the reason not to, which generally turns out to be a transphobic reason.
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Laverne Cox: Straight Men Who Sleep With Trans Women But Not Date Them Are Insecure AF
- Thread starter Chamomile
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It's about the reason not to, which generally turns out to be a transphobic reason.
Cis dude : "I want to have children"
women : "ok maybe later when I finish my thesis"
later
Cis Dude : "ok now can we have children ?"
Cis women : "my gynecological exam came out and I am infertile and science is not advanced enough to allow an infertile women to give birth"
or
Trans women : "sorry I was kinda hoping science would advance enough to allow me to have one by now"
xD
So ... people who WANTS to fuck trans women regardless ... please put "currently dating this awesome women" on social media
The only thing that is common to all trans women and is not common on MOST cis women is the Y chromossome.
It IS wrong to not wanting to date a person because of a chromossome since they are literally invisible to the naked eye.
It is NOT wrong not wanting to date a woman with broad shoulders, long nose or whatever. BUT there are lots of trans women (and the amount will only increase as treatment on teenagers becomes more common) who does not have either of those things
i believe there are people who would claim its possible he was never a woman, not even in birth
can someone comment on if i have that right?
thats like somebody saying "i dont like indie games", erm....what? indie games isn't just one thing, in encompasses almost everything, including things that you do like
its a statement that if true, is only true because the person is going out of their way to intentionally make it true
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Deleted member 3811
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'Wrong' is up to decide for yourself, but if the sole differentiator in how you perceive or treat a person is whether they're cis or trans, then that is transphobic.
"I won't date you if you're trans" is hardly solidarity. Nor is announcing that unprovoked, given that that first part of being an ally is to shut the fuck up and listen.
Hmm, wait, is this geared towards people who are fooling around with trans people but refuse to date them? Or are you actually saying that because one prefers to not date trans people in general that makes them somehow afraid of them or have hate for them? Because I disagree with that.
By that same argument you could say that because I'm not attracted to other men I'm somehow homophobic? I don't think it's wise to conflate sexual preference with some kind of blind hatred. Just because I have a sexual preference does not mean I have any problems with knowing or loving trans people.
If that's the reason I don't se show it's that person's fault. Like if a guy doesn't find someone attractive he can't will himself to "get it up" or date them, you know?
Define why you are not attracted to trans women in a way that you will not be banned please
Thanks! I think I deleted it for the right reasons, but I love debating philosophy. Definitely not the best thread for it though!
I guess you could say that post was..."how about no". I'll see myself out!
Deleted member 3811
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If he doesn't find a person attractive, fine. If he finds a transwoman attractive, but refuses to date her, in spite of his attraction, then that is transphobic.
Trans women are women... refusing to date trans women is in fact not like refusing to date men because you're straight
How can they be supportive when they deny a person's very nature?
I've never really thought about it because it's always felt out of the realm of possibility for me. I'm not 100% against it but I'd obviously have to educate myself on the biological nuances and such. So it's something I would approach with respect and an open mind anyways.
I just don't think you can say "you're not sexually attracted to X? Then you must hate X." If I'm not sexually attracted to my father is it becuase I'm phobic or because it's my body/chemicals letting me know because I'm not instinctively getting aroused when my dad is around.
Right but you also can't choose who or what you are attracted to. It happens naturally. If I'm naturally attracted to a trans woman then I'd be fine with that, I just don't think it's a given JUST because I like women.
Other rule if we as a people are good enough to fuck we're good enough to date. Don't treat us a masturbation tool.
No, but seriously people need to stop dehumanizing transwomen, and insulting them in their face on purpose. Who wants to sit around for that (I've fucked up too, but the good modding as awoken me)?. They are women, enough with the muddy scenarios that actually do not mean anything to you. It is throwing insults at people who just want equality, and really it is oppressive especially to hear it every other post. That's getting abusive.
See my last number. You don't have to date
That said if you're totally into someone until they say I'm trans... that's your issue and you owe it to being a good trans ally to keep it to yourself and extricate yourself some other way
I'm sincerely sorry if I've already made a fool of myself, I'm in here trying to learn and engage so maybe I'll just sit back and read the chat for now.
you can see chromosomes? :p
this isn't directed at trans people specifically and yes its stereotypical man piggishness that we're so famous for
but there are alot of woman i would fuck, and a fraction of those i would consider dating
my dick will invite in far more women than my brain will
a relationship is a relationship, and thats a higher level connection/commitment with someone, and im sorry to say, but if im being honest, i'll fuck just about anyone, with their consent i will treat almost anyone as a masturbation tool
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User was warned for off-topic posting.
If we're going to have - totally warranted - mod warnings against people saying transphobic shit, can we also get an edict to not keep peddling the falsehood that biology and evolutionary factors have no role to play in attraction and sexual orientation, and furthermore than anyone who questions this is labelled transphobic themselves?
I feel like if I was attracted to someone and then they came out as trans it wouldn't feel right to just cut myself off there because I already felt an attraction.
I think at first you guys were making it sound like that if I wouldn't date any random trans person I saw then that makes me somehow transphobic. But I can see now that you're not implying that, but are more so saying that if I was attracted to someone and then detached myself after I found out then there could be an element of transphobia there.
Specially as we advance the treatment of trans people when they are still minors, would be like being 200% attracted to a woman and then discovering her greatgranddad was black and THAT makes you unnatracted to her.
Can it happen ? Yes. You will be able to rationalize in a non hatefull way ? nope
Changing how you think about an invisible factor that changes nothing is the definition of prejudice.
I mean refusing to date wholesale trans people is pretty weird... doesn't mean you have to. Just means you should consider what it means to tell everyone
Almost like I made it an explicit statement about refusal of trans people in totality and not as individuals.
There are way more chance of finding an infertile cis women than a trans women in the wild. If it is so important people NEED to mention in every topic like this again and again, then yes, the person should ask as soon as they can. It is ok if it is not first date material but don't be mad if you discover otherwise and YOU are the person paranoid about it.
Like if it is important to me to not date people who think landing on the moon is a conspiracy than yes I will try to put this on a conversation as soon as possible.
OR MAYBE people being OMFG I NEED TO BE A FATHER are actually not that caring about being fathers but just want an excuse to say they don't want to date trans women =P
Because as you said yourself, if it is not first date material than you will only discover this AFTER dating a trans woman or an infertile cis woman
What does this have to do with anything regarding looking at a transwoman/transman and deciding to date/sleep with them? If you're a straight male, and you're looking at Laverne Cox, for instance, and don't know that she is transgender, then what evolutionary/biological factor are you referring to?
it would seem i made a mistake and outed myself as a complete pig for nothing
i agree with your point, but because as you rightly corrected me, you were talking in totality
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If you refuse to date anyone who was ever fat, including people who are thin now because then the fatness would become an INVISIBLE factor
There's really no race that I wouldn't be attracted to but I can kind of understand how others might have preferences in their attraction and I don't think that's inherently wrong if it's not out of hatred. The truth is people can't pick and choose what they are attracted to.
Like I said, I can't say what exactly would happen if I was propositioned with dating a trans person. I'd like to think I could flow with it OK but what if simply knowing someone wasn't born as X sex makes it so that I can't get sexually aroused? Obviously this is a hypothetical but I don't think I should necessarily be responsible for what my animal biology drives me towards. For example I have a fetish I'm not exactly proud of but it's not like I can wish it away :P
I don't think an attraction or non-attraction that you have absolutely no say in needs to be rationalized at all, never mind in a way involving some kind of hatred that's not there.
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Not dating someone because of them being larger-bodied isn't even a one-to-one for not dating someone for being trans as well...
you respond to "prejudice of invisible factors" by bringing up fat women as a comparison
fat is the exact opposite direction as invisible, not sure where you're going with this one
While people should get that conversation out as soon as possible, usually people that want biological kids are not going to bring it up until after a dating for a while. The next inevitable conversation is marriage after all. Most people aren't also going to bring up marriage until they love that person. Presumably most men are going to want to be fathers, however it is likely that people will come into this topic and state that they only date fertile women in order to make trans people feel bad.
I would assume most women want to carry their own children to term than let a surrogate do it.
Eh the kids part is clear adoption doesn't exist because it demands you can take care of a kid rather than just have one because you want to
Yeah, I'm sorry, but that's a stupid argument. Refusing to date someone who's fat is not prejudice. Prejudice means you're judging someone for something that's out of their control. how many fat people are fat because of their genetics? and how many because they refuse to exercise and likes to eat their cake and ice cream?
Fatphobia isn't real. Fat acceptance is real, and it's actually causing Americans to get fatter and fatter every year. But nonetheless, I digress. This is about transwomen and not fat women.
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I'm sorry I didn't fast enough since you quoted a post prior to my edit. What I'm saying is that, if a woman wants a child and is infertile and wants a child, then shouldn't her partner and her make the decision to go through a surrogate or adopt a child?
That's really the key point of this thread. It's been a bit lost amongst the derailment.
Your guide is really good by the way even for someone who it isn't directed at.
The thing is that there are reasons why you would choose not to date a person who you would fuck. Usually it's some sort of compatibility problem, or a difference in life goals or something.
If a person is fucking a bunch of trans women and refusing to date them, then you have to ask the same question. What is the thing constraining the relationship to sex only? And the answers people tend to have almost always boil down to having a problem with them being trans.
I find that stretching it. Not wanting to date an unhealthy person is not a phobia.
Well that kinda makes my point. Looking at a picture and not knowing a person is transgender might evoke a particular attraction. If the knowledge that this person is transgender changes that attraction, that does not make a person transphobic or prejudiced like some people in this thread are claiming. The biology matters, as does the sexual identity.
yep, completely understand and agree with what you're saying
Maybe I'm missing a step here, but what about having the knowledge suddenly changes the attraction?
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