Le bizzarre avventure di GioGio: Vento Aureo Anime (JoJo P5) |OT| Sono cazzate, ma ci credo!

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,041
Diavolo would try to get a sneak donut in, Dio would survive because lol immortal, and then stop time. Diavolo's dead.

Diavolo can't use epitaph to see what happens in stopped time (which is when Dio sets up the daggers and drops the roadroller) so all he'd see is him being the next new menu item at Dunkin Donuts.
this is exactly what i think the difference between the two powers is. The World has no actual reliable counter at close range besides... The World.

But while King Crimson has quirks that can be used to plan against it, those quirks make it more versatile in more situations, and in the hands of someone like Diavalo who is the expert at controlling how, when, and where he fights, it truly is nearly unbeatable.
 
Nov 5, 2017
9,195
this is exactly what i think the difference between the two powers is. The World has no actual reliable counter at close range besides... The World.

But while King Crimson has quirks that can be used to plan against it, those quirks make it more versatile in more situations, and in the hands of someone like Diavalo who is the expert at controlling how, when, and where he fights, it truly is nearly unbeatable.
True, Bruno was able to outpredict KC.
 

PinchaUvas

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,291
Spain
Yes, they don’t remember anything that happened durin the skip, but their bodies move as they would.

If something got altered during the skip they wouldn’t notice because they were not thinking about that, simply noticing the skip is already hard enough, thats how Diavolo always gets the element of surprise.

KC’s bio says that “if someone was reading a book during erased time, they wouldn’t know how far they read”, it’s a 10 second amnesia where people are stuck doing what they were set to do before the 10 seconds started... the bodies move but the mind’s not on it y’know?
What I'm saying is, people aren't "set out" to do anything, the mind is still working, they're still thinking about it, but then those memories of them making that decision get erased so they just don't remember what happened during the time skip
 

Madao

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,151
Panama
King Crimson vs Killer Queen Bites the Dust would cause a time paradox probably.

regarding King Crimson vs The World, i'm in the camp that thinks whoever uses their power first wins. if KC sees the future first, he can wreck The World even with time stop being used (he'd still be able to move away and delete whatever the other dude did when time stop ends). if TW stops time before KC sees the future, then KC is boned since he doesn't actually know what's coming up and TW just wrecks him.
this is if it is Jotaro with Star Platinum's The World. with DIO, Diavolo would need to crush his head to defeat him on the first hit because of DIO being a vampire. as we saw in Part 3, even with vampire abilities, DIO can get destroyed by a good blow to the head.
 

RadioHeadAche

Member
Oct 26, 2017
477
Has anyone had any issues with crunchyroll lately? I can’t watch anything because I get an unknown video error despite deleting and reinstalling the app and reactivating my ps3.

I did not have any issues last week. Netflix works just fine, too.
 

Mariip

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,511
What I'm saying is, people aren't "set out" to do anything, the mind is still working, they're still thinking about it, but then those memories of them making that decision get erased so they just don't remember what happened during the time skip
D: yeah, that part is confusing even though we have some examples, like narancia eating the chocolate and forgetting he did x-x

I consider it as an auto-pilot because it gives the sensation the person wasn’t thinking about their actions, but i guess amnesia is the better way to explain it, cause if you had started the action before the erased time you won’t notice, but if you started it during that time you’ll go “wait,wtf am i doing?”, like fugo not noticing the time skip but remembering to thank giorno for the water(cause he asked before skip), while Giorno didn’t remember givig him the bottle on the first place(he gave the bottle during the skip) x-x
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,041
lol i just noticed that we're all avoiding talking about bites the dust vs king crimson because it's too complicated to even consider
 

PinchaUvas

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,291
Spain
lol i just noticed that we're all avoiding talking about bites the dust vs king crimson because it's too complicated to even consider
One goes Backwards in time. The other goes forward in time.

So either the timeline divides into two timelines, one where Diavolo doesn't explode and continues as normal, and another where the world rewinds
Or
There's only one timeline, so KC just can't jump 10 seconds into the future because the future doesn't exist past the explosion
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,041
One goes Backwards in time. The other goes forward in time.

So either the timeline divides into two timelines, one where Diavolo doesn't explode and continues as normal, and another where the world rewinds
Or
There's only one timeline, so KC just can't jump 10 seconds into the future because the future doesn't exist past the explosion
but what does it mean for the results to remain when the result is a time loop that was never initiated. does that loop just become The Future?
 

Mariip

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,511
If diavolo learns about kira’s identity in stopped (to be erased)time , does it still count for the bom triggering? Is it put on hols till time resumes?
 

PinchaUvas

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,291
Spain
but what does it mean for the results to remain when the result is a time loop that was never initiated. does that loop just become The Future?
The past can't be the future. If we assume that after the explosion, that timeline continues, then he'd skip his death and continue as normal in that timeline while the rewind happens in a new timeline. If not, the further he could skip would be the moment he dies and Kira rewinds, so he'd still die and then the rewind would happen.

And thinking about it, he could probably just skip the part where he explodes in that second loop, but he would've forgotten Kira's identity.

If diavolo learns about kira’s identity in stopped (to be erased)time , does it still count for the bom triggering? Is it put on hols till time resumes?
Since nothing can affect him in the erased time, I'm guessing Bites The Dust wouldn't trigger
 

Mariip

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,511
The past can't be the future. If we assume that after the explosion, that timeline continues, then he'd skip his death and continue as normal in that timeline while the rewind happens in a new timeline. If not, the further he could skip would be the moment he dies and Kira rewinds, so he'd still die and then the rewind would happen.

And thinking about it, he could probably just skip the part where he explodes in that second loop, but he would've forgotten Kira's identity.


Since nothing can affect him in the erased time, I'm guessing Bites The Dust wouldn't trigger
Yeah but he’d still know... Does it trigger only at the moment of discovery of does it keep checking if someone that shouldn’t know found out and triggers asap?
 

PinchaUvas

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,291
Spain
Yeah but he’d still know... Does it trigger only at the moment of discovery of does it keep checking if someone that shouldn’t know found out and triggers asap?
Honestly no idea. Probably the first one but we don't know enough about Bites The Dust

It seems to revolve heavily around the moment someone makes the discovery, they die the moment they discover Kira's identity, but again, we don't have enough info.
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,041
Yeah but he’d still know... Does it trigger only at the moment of discovery of does it keep checking if someone that shouldn’t know found out and triggers asap?
it triggers when a specific person reveals his identity directly, even if its just through someone putting the pieces together based on their behavior. it could also be made to trigger for a different parameter as long as it's information. if he learned of it in erased time, the method in which he learned it no longer took place: as far as the universe is concerned he learned it from nothing.
 

Mariip

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,511
I knew i shouldn’t have mashed in programming logic in the mix lol

If it’s the moment, diavolo could get an easy win, but we all know they’d be dancing around trying to no be found out and the fight would be lame af cause acting would mean revealing themselves o- o
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,041
if we're talking what would actually happen, Diavolo would not give a single shit about a serial killer who preys on innocent women.
 

JadedWriter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,041
if we're talking what would actually happen, Diavolo would not give a single shit about a serial killer who preys on innocent women.
Diavolo wouldn't give a single fuck at all about Kira and Kira wouldn't give a shit about uncovering Diavolo's identity, if anything Kira would ask him for tips about erasing his identity and go about his life.
 

tsampikos

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,531
Diavolo would try to get a sneak donut in, Dio would survive because lol immortal, and then stop time. Diavolo's dead.

Diavolo can't use epitaph to see what happens in stopped time (which is when Dio sets up the daggers and drops the roadroller) so all he'd see is him being the next new menu item at Dunkin Donuts.
He can use Epitaph to see an undesirable future then he can activate King Crimson before The World activates to see what happens in the future stopped time as time becomes nonlinear.
 

Bard

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,313
He can use Epitaph to see an undesirable future then he can activate King Crimson before The World activates to see what happens in the future stopped time as time becomes nonlinear.
Diavolo can't perceive anything in stopped time, also this is implying that KC is faster than The World, which I seriously doubt.
 

tsampikos

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,531
Diavolo can't perceive anything in stopped time, also this is implying that KC is faster than The World, which I seriously doubt.
You sure about that?

From start to finish King Crimson grants full awareness of what happens within the range of activation of erased time. Time stop would happen in an instant in real time but as long as time stops during erased time Diavolo gains total awareness of every action. 'Erased time' time moves in a non linear way where Diavolo would see all actions at once in a single superimposed instance that lasts several seconds of his time. It's not that KC is faster... it's that in erased time the concept of speed no longer applies. It's a causality based ability and he alone will be able to change the outcome of the period of erased time.

Even if he couldn't see what happens during the stopped time he could still see what happens after it. Meanwhile from begining to end of KC's ability Dio's actions will be locked in. He literally can't deviate from his actions, time stop or not. Diavlolo would be able to avoid Dio regardless.
 

Bard

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,313
You sure about that?

From start to finish King Crimson grants full awareness of what happens within the range of activation of erased time. Time stop would happen in an instant in real time but as long as time stops during erased time Diavolo gains total awareness of every action. 'Erased time' time moves in a non linear way where Diavolo would see all actions at once in a single superimposed instance that lasts several seconds of his time. It's not that KC is faster... it's that in erased time the concept of speed no longer applies. It's a causality based ability and he alone will be able to change the outcome of the period of erased time.

Even if he couldn't see what happens during the stopped time he could still see what happens after it. Meanwhile from begining to end of KC's ability Dio's actions will be locked in. He literally can't deviate from his actions, time stop or not. Diavlolo would be able to avoid Dio regardless.
Pretty sure, yes.

Don't know where you got that it sees things non-linear, King crimson sees all actions in time skip as if time had never been skipped, so it's like it watches a liveaction powerpoint and then it can choose where to jump back in. The thing is that time stop mitigates that since Dio's actions during time stop are outside of time, thus outside what Diavolo would be able to perceive. Only Jotaro was able to see what happened during time stop because he had the same ability. Diavolo's fundamentally different ability only sees time as it flows normally but allows him to jump forward in between points. Dio shouting for time to stop still wouldn't allow Diavolo to see what he does in stopped time, his perception would only be of dio teleporting somewhere else but can't see how he got there.

Speed is irrelevant during skipped time because Diavolo can only inflict harm once time has resumed to normal and KC would definitely not be able to outspeed The World, and even if he somehow did outspeed it, Dio is still conventionally immortal and thus Diavolo's attack, unless he went for decapitation which we have never seen him try to do, wouldn't be enough to incapacitate Dio for long, so he'd die in the next second.

Against Jotaro Diavolo has a better chance since if Jotaro gets sneak attacked the best he could do is try to take Diavolo down with him.
 

Ebrietas-

Member
Mar 2, 2019
119
Pretty sure, yes.

Don't know where you got that it sees things non-linear, King crimson sees all actions in time skip as if time had never been skipped, so it's like it watches a liveaction powerpoint and then it can choose where to jump back in. The thing is that time stop mitigates that since Dio's actions during time stop are outside of time, thus outside what Diavolo would be able to perceive. Only Jotaro was able to see what happened during time stop because he had the same ability. Diavolo's fundamentally different ability only sees time as it flows normally but allows him to jump forward in between points. Dio shouting for time to stop still wouldn't allow Diavolo to see what he does in stopped time, his perception would only be of dio teleporting somewhere else but can't see how he got there.

Speed is irrelevant during skipped time because Diavolo can only inflict harm once time has resumed to normal and KC would definitely not be able to outspeed The World, and even if he somehow did outspeed it, Dio is still conventionally immortal and thus Diavolo's attack, unless he went for decapitation which we have never seen him try to do, wouldn't be enough to incapacitate Dio for long, so he'd die in the next second.

Against Jotaro Diavolo has a better chance since if Jotaro gets sneak attacked the best he could do is try to take Diavolo down with him.
Diavolo doesn't need to see what happens inside time stop. Just seeing that he will die in the next 10 seconds is enough for him to activate time erasure which not only erases the act of him dying but also gives him a free hit on his enemy. After time is erased he just moves at a different direction than the epitaph prediction and waits for dio to stop time and punch the empty space where diavolo was originally supposed to be. After that he will just postion himself behind him and wait for time erasure to end

Your claim that the world is stronger/faster is totally baseless since both stands rank A in speed/power. Even if it was slower diavolo can still sneak up behind his enemy in erased time and time his attack so that he will kill his enemy pretty much the instant erasure ends. This is what he did with both bruno and polnareff. He started his attack right before erasure ends so that his attack lands at pretty much the milisecond erasure ends

Yeah his regeneration would most likely give dio the win but just stand wise kc is stronger
 
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Ebrietas-

Member
Mar 2, 2019
119
I feel like the "auto mode" explanation makes things more confusing and complicated.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but people still react to stuff like normal and make decisions like normal (as long as it doesn't involve Diavolo), they just don't remember it after the skip
Outside of diavolo everyone just does whatever the prediction in epitaph showed. When Diavolo dodged Bruno's attack in erased time he still continued punching the place where diavolo was supposed to be and gave no reaction to diavolo just casually chilling behind him.
 

tsampikos

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,531
Pretty sure, yes.

Don't know where you got that it sees things non-linear, King crimson sees all actions in time skip as if time had never been skipped, so it's like it watches a liveaction powerpoint and then it can choose where to jump back in. The thing is that time stop mitigates that since Dio's actions during time stop are outside of time, thus outside what Diavolo would be able to perceive. Only Jotaro was able to see what happened during time stop because he had the same ability. Diavolo's fundamentally different ability only sees time as it flows normally but allows him to jump forward in between points. Dio shouting for time to stop still wouldn't allow Diavolo to see what he does in stopped time, his perception would only be of dio teleporting somewhere else but can't see how he got there.

Speed is irrelevant during skipped time because Diavolo can only inflict harm once time has resumed to normal and KC would definitely not be able to outspeed The World, and even if he somehow did outspeed it, Dio is still conventionally immortal and thus Diavolo's attack, unless he went for decapitation which we have never seen him try to do, wouldn't be enough to incapacitate Dio for long, so he'd die in the next second.

Against Jotaro Diavolo has a better chance since if Jotaro gets sneak attacked the best he could do is try to take Diavolo down with him.
The entire premise of Epitaph is seeing the future while the premise of King Crimson is seeing the future merged with the present during a period of time where causality is locked in for everyone else but him. If he can see himself getting donutted by Dio in the next few seconds and activates his ability in a way that has The World activating during KC then he becomes immune to The World. Even if he can't see during time stop Diavolo will still know the result... Dios actions being locked in regardless giving Diavolo the freedom to avoid his attacks just as readily as he avoids anyone else.

While arguments can be made on who is more powerful (Dio is physically stronger and more durable than Diavolo and while I think KC's punch ghost hits harder it moves slower than the world in real time) when it come to defense I think Diavolo's ability to see the future and gain sole awareness and control over causality has the advantage over time stop.
 
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Bard

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,313
Diavolo doesn't need to see what happens inside time stop. Just seeing that he will die in the next 10 seconds is enough for him to activate time erasure which not only erases the act of him dying but also gives him a free hit on his enemy. After time is erased he just moves at a different direction than the epitaph prediction and waits for dio to stop time and punch the empty space where diavolo was originally supposed to be. After that he will just postion himself behind him and wait for time erasure to end

Your claim that the world is stronger/faster is totally baseless since both stands rank A in speed/power. Even if it was slower diavolo can still sneak up behind his enemy in erased time and time his attack so that he will kill his enemy pretty much the instant erasure ends. This is what he did with both bruno and polnareff. He started his attack right before erasure ends so that his attack lands at pretty much the milisecond erasure ends

Yeah his regeneration would most likely give dio the win but just stand wise kc is stronger
Yes I know all of this, the thing is that we are talking about The World/Star Platinum and not some random enemy but Dio.

The comparison was not baseless, as I've said before Star Platinum and The World are basically the same stand aesthetics aside. Star Platinum is fast enough to stop a bullet fired point blank, so by that logic so can The World. KC had to skip time to dodge Aerosmith's bullets even though it was firing from a good amount farther away. Regardless, even if KC is tied with or faster than The World Dio is basically immortal, so unless Diavolo knew to try and decapitate or attempt some more extreme form of hit on Dio to incapacitate him until morning, all that would happen is that Dio would have a hole in his stomach and Diavolo would be dead.

The entire premise of Epitaph is seeing the future while the premise of King Crimson is seeing the future merged with the present during a period of time where causality is locked in for everyone else but him. If he can see himself getting donutted by Dio in the next few seconds and activates his ability in a way that has The World activating during KC then he becomes immune to The World. Even if he can't see during time stop Diavolo will still know the result... Dios actions being locked in regardless giving Diavolo the freedom to avoid his attacks just as readily as he avoids anyone else.

While arguments can be made on who is more powerful (Dio is physically stronger and more durable than Diavolo and while I think KC's punch ghost hits harder it moves slower than the world in real time) when it come to defense I think Diavolo's ability to see the future and gain sole awareness and control over causality has the advantage over time stop.
The thing you keep going on is the fact that Diavolo wouldn't be at the position Dio thinks he is when time skip is done, and my argument is that it doesn't matter. Dio wins because he's a vampire. It's not even about time stop, it's about the fact that he's virtually immortal. Dude kept talking after being cut in half by a hamon infused sword. Diavolo doesn't know that Dio is a vampire, thus no matter how he tried to avoid it, dude ends up dead if he tries to attack Dio directly.

People need to understand that Dio wins, not really because of time stop, but because the fucker is in a sense immune to KC's usual kill method.
 

tsampikos

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,531
Diavolo can see the future and erase undesirable outcomes to his body and we've never seen a hole in this defense. Not sure why you refuse to internalize this.

An arguement can be made for his irrational desire to keep his identity hidden through Doppio holding him back but once Diavolo is out in full like during the Bruno fight we haven't seen any downsides to KC's defensive capability.

Also "Because he's a vampire" is an insufficient argument. Being a vampire didn't stop literally every vampire we've been introduced to from dying... including in fights that didn't feature hamon energy as well as fights where the opposition didn't know about vampires. As a punch ghost KC is strong af and if Dio does his arrogance thing and lets KC punch The World to gauge its strength he could shatter right then and there and with good timing the Sun could come out soon after.
 

Ebrietas-

Member
Mar 2, 2019
119
KC had to skip time to dodge Aerosmith's bullets even though it was firing from a good amount farther away.
But diavolo didnt even try to dodge the bullets. He just activated king crimson and erased the timeframe where the bullets went through him. We never saw how king crimson's speed compares to bullets. All we know is that both it and the world are ranked A in power/speed.

Also its pretty questionable to use a feat from the 1st chapter of stardust crusaders considering at that same chapter Star Platinum somehow brings lots of random stuff inside jotaro's cell which contradicts the reveal of his stand's range being 2 meters.