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Leaked Clips from The Joker [WARNING MAJOR SPOILERS] Up: Second Clip Leaked [SEE STAFF POST]
- Thread starter SweetNicole
- Start date
Batman or not, I hope the narrative is framed in such a way that there is a strong rebuttal to Arthur Fleck/Joker. (I don't consider this version the definitive one.)
I was piggybacking off his post about people taking the wrong message from anything
In the spoilers I've read he gains national fame and attention (even if it's negative) for his actions.
Sounds like mass shooter bait to me.
Man that is really unsettling. Really shakes me because Joker's always had some sort of quirkiness to his character that usually served as an enjoyable foil to other more serious characters despite his villain role but this depiction... the real world parallels are uncomfortable. How do you have a quirky funny side to the Joker with that? You probably don't, and absolutely shouldn't.
Maybe that's what's tripping people up about the 'endorsement vs depiction' side of things. Joker's always had an enjoyable quirky side in nearly all of his depictions but this is still this movie's depiction before anything else. Perhaps it'll be handled well and ethically, portraying Joker as one of those people who needed their guns and rights revoked by the government a long time ago already with all the lives lost.
Maybe that's what's tripping people up about the 'endorsement vs depiction' side of things. Joker's always had an enjoyable quirky side in nearly all of his depictions but this is still this movie's depiction before anything else. Perhaps it'll be handled well and ethically, portraying Joker as one of those people who needed their guns and rights revoked by the government a long time ago already with all the lives lost.
Surprised how defensive and aggressive some people are getting. Is it the comic book fandoms having a proxy war?
One of my favorite books of all time is Fight Club, and I loved the movie as well. It's almost impossible to discuss either without people saying how guys they knew took the story the wrong way or how the themes are misinterpreted by most fans. But I never felt that it hindered any critical discussion, or my personal enjoyment.
One of my favorite books of all time is Fight Club, and I loved the movie as well. It's almost impossible to discuss either without people saying how guys they knew took the story the wrong way or how the themes are misinterpreted by most fans. But I never felt that it hindered any critical discussion, or my personal enjoyment.
Real life is also mass shooter bait in that case, someone should really do something about it ;)
Joker has been making people act all kinds of crazy lately.
Yes, like your post from the other thread, https://www.resetera.com/threads/joker-official-trailer-2.137782/page-7#post-24018290 , that wants to have the director clearly telegraph that "this is a bad guy" or "this is how you're meant to interpret this scene".
It's weird how many ITT would throw away artistic license, subtlety and nuance in order to ensure that no one misinterprets a work.
Funny thing is despite being extremely excited for this movie, such a serious Joker is actually a turn off for me.
I'll say Ledger was the "best" technically but he certainly isn't my favorite, Joker needs the goofiness to him.
This Joker is like the one dude i'd approve calling in MurderMan Batfleck for.
I'll say Ledger was the "best" technically but he certainly isn't my favorite, Joker needs the goofiness to him.
This Joker is like the one dude i'd approve calling in MurderMan Batfleck for.
I feel like Joker's dialogue is something that lives or dies by the acting. Even the Ledger Joker sounds incredibly dumb if you read the lines devoid of context and acting. Obviously Joaquin is a masterclass of an actor, so this will probably be great on screen.
I mean, if the movie is trying to be somewhat realistic that would happen that the joker would gain fame and attention. A lot of horrific people do. Why would his actions spreading around the nation in the fiction of the movie universe be mass shooter bait?
That villian or bad guy often become infamous the world over in fiction.
Some steps people/media are taking now is to not publicize shooters names/faces. But that's real life. Why would the fictional media/reality do that in the 80s?
Was never gonna happen lol, those rumors of this joker being "the joker" going forward always seemed more like wishful thinking than insider scoop.
You can find anything bulletproof in America. It's part of the gun industry.
You knew this was never going to happen maybe a sequel to joker but never in the dccu
he's almost 80 years old. i think he just looks like that now
Watched the clips. Genuinely looks great. Gonna be a straight up showcase piece for Joaquin, who is always great.
...
That said. Given the current political climate, and temperature of lunatics online, I have no interest in seeing a Joker movie where he doesn't get beaten within an inch of his life by Batman by the end. Hard pass in theaters.
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That said. Given the current political climate, and temperature of lunatics online, I have no interest in seeing a Joker movie where he doesn't get beaten within an inch of his life by Batman by the end. Hard pass in theaters.
I am not sure why people are saying it's offputting. I thought it looked great. And I didn't think I would like a Joker after Ledger.
Ah yes, the constant straw man.
Most skilled directors can do nuance and subtlety, but the best can read a room, culturally. Know that art doesn't exist in a vacuum.
Those who can read a room know some anvils need to be dropped.
It's not a straw man. You want artists to dumb down their works to reduce the likelihood of misunderstandings. Given that even really obvious works like Jonathan Swift's A Modest Proposal are occasionally misinterpreted by some I think that it's a virtually impossible task. The people who misinterpret will do so unless things are incredibly one dimensional. I'd rather that artists don't fixate on that and self-censor their own work to try to avoid it.
Watched the leaked clip, read the concerns here.
I get the fear that this could lead to a skewed perspective of the movie's message. I really get the fear that there will people upholding this movie in a twisted way to strengthen their agenda.
It's not like Taxi Driver for instance, didnt motivate the attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan, but that speaks more about how fucking terrible the situation on gun control, and support of mental health in the United States than how the movie, and potentially this movie, as a bogeyman.
I get the fear that this could lead to a skewed perspective of the movie's message. I really get the fear that there will people upholding this movie in a twisted way to strengthen their agenda.
It's not like Taxi Driver for instance, didnt motivate the attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan, but that speaks more about how fucking terrible the situation on gun control, and support of mental health in the United States than how the movie, and potentially this movie, as a bogeyman.
Murderers gaining fame and notoriety and even post-prison entertainment careers is not a new story. They're commentaries on the society just as much as on the murderers or criminals themselves.
One of the most successful musicals in history, "Chicago," tells this exact same story.
I swear, if art has to start being curbed because of what the craziest and basest of people will take from it to try and justify something heinous, then you may as well cancel the arts right now.
Check out all of Jack Thompson's over here.
Lacking all self awareness while regurgitating ANCIENT conservative talking points. Throughout its history, cinema has seen multiple instances of telling a story through the eyes of a sympathetic antagonist. For some reason though, the Joker should be off limits. Forget every other film featuring sympathetic murderers, joker is different because of what? He gets rejected from a relationship? That surely hasn't happened in a movie before.
Where does it end? We just had a lunatic shoot up a mosque and film it as if it was a first person shooter. Should we retroactively lock up Marilyn Manson and id Software for Columbine?
What about music? How many albums have told a story of someone (be it a girlfriend, parent, stranger) getting murdered. Should we ban Pink Floyd's "The Wall" or Kendricks "GKMC" because you don't believe people can reasonably comprehend them? Should we just dumb everything down and strip out all subtleties and context? Should be put an advisory on the screen during scenes of violence? The onus is not on creators to spell things out for the audience.
There's people actually bringing up the joker's dialogue in an attempt to prove a point. Of course it follows his agenda, that's his character! It's not a life lesson, it's an evil shithead doing evil shithead things, no matter the perspective. Did you guys picket Dexter when it was still running? And on a videogame forum of all things.
This is hypocritical, stupid, and dangerous.
Lacking all self awareness while regurgitating ANCIENT conservative talking points. Throughout its history, cinema has seen multiple instances of telling a story through the eyes of a sympathetic antagonist. For some reason though, the Joker should be off limits. Forget every other film featuring sympathetic murderers, joker is different because of what? He gets rejected from a relationship? That surely hasn't happened in a movie before.
Where does it end? We just had a lunatic shoot up a mosque and film it as if it was a first person shooter. Should we retroactively lock up Marilyn Manson and id Software for Columbine?
What about music? How many albums have told a story of someone (be it a girlfriend, parent, stranger) getting murdered. Should we ban Pink Floyd's "The Wall" or Kendricks "GKMC" because you don't believe people can reasonably comprehend them? Should we just dumb everything down and strip out all subtleties and context? Should be put an advisory on the screen during scenes of violence? The onus is not on creators to spell things out for the audience.
There's people actually bringing up the joker's dialogue in an attempt to prove a point. Of course it follows his agenda, that's his character! It's not a life lesson, it's an evil shithead doing evil shithead things, no matter the perspective. Did you guys picket Dexter when it was still running? And on a videogame forum of all things.
This is hypocritical, stupid, and dangerous.
That was incredibly creepy and haunting more than previous jokers.
I mean, people take the stories from Goodfellas and Godfather the wrong ideas all the time, shouldn't really put a stop to it, if anything, the film puts a highlight just how much of a problem we have at the moment that a film could even influence a person to such a degree. In the same way that people highlight video games as the problem, it's really so many other contributing factors that led to a particular moment that we should be addressing before anything else or this film for that matter.
It would be nice if it's actually cliche, but look at what has happened in the last few years.
I definitely didn't roll my eyes and mouth off 'again?' when a shooter decided to gun down people in a mosque while livestreaming it in the process.
A straw man is refuting an argument not made so... Yeah, it is.
Unless you can find where I said "dumb down" the work, argue the points made.
Because I don't see any subtlety or nuance in the clips shown.
I don't know where you are coming from here. In these two scenes Joker is a stylish and charismatic protagonist. He's ripe for emulation.
I have no idea how this received an R rating, not that I think movies should be rated to begin with, but as long as they are, this seems like a clear NC-17.
I don't see how else you can interpret the following in any way other than a plea to simplify and make it very explicit what the audience is meant to perceive as good or bad.
"When you are dealing with sensitive material, material that if interpreted wrongly can lead to the harm of others? I think it is important to make sure your message gets through without distraction, without glorification of the wrong stuff. "
What the? I expected something REALLY bad based off of the comments? "Gore"? There wasn't any flesh busting and popping or even any heads rolling and instestinal tracts slipping out of people. I've seen worse shit on Game of Thrones/breaking bad. IMO anyway.
I will say it was just "weird" it doesn't make sense in the canon for that to happen like how it did. But I guess this is another one of those "different writer, different universe things" DC does. Without context it is hard for me to understand why that happened.
I feel even with context I would just go "nah I don't believe he would do that quite like that anyway". This doesn't seem like joker. It just seems like a crazy guy who was inspired by Joker.
I will say it was just "weird" it doesn't make sense in the canon for that to happen like how it did. But I guess this is another one of those "different writer, different universe things" DC does. Without context it is hard for me to understand why that happened.
I feel even with context I would just go "nah I don't believe he would do that quite like that anyway". This doesn't seem like joker. It just seems like a crazy guy who was inspired by Joker.
it's interesting that some of DC's most successful non-comic stuff tend not to be things taken or adapted from actual comics and just invented/created with the comics as a looseish outline. Like, with the success of this movie is THIS will be the new Joker template in comics, probably. Just like how Harley was invented on the animated series and was so popular she became comics canon. Like, after this are they gonna adapt any comic stories or with Joker?
I can't tell if you're joking or not but in the case that you aren't, There is nothing charismatic about Joker in these clips. He looks unhinged and not in control of his emotional state.
I mean pretty much any PTA clip > most things haha. Whoaaa this thread took a turn .. this is what I've been saying , online discussion around this film is going to be such a mess, heck these were only two offscreen clips and we got to a mod threadmark.
My initial take reading this is isn't it more troubling that Ledger's Joker is portrayed as "Cooler" while still obviously appealing to the same Incel base that some members are concerned with? And while Ledger's joker may be less outwardly angry at society as Phoenix's, I wouldn't argue that Ledger's Joker was any iota friendlier towards regular people either (Threatening the two ferries at the end, sending various threats to get Gotham to go crazy).
Just some thoughts; I'm excited to see the movie.