Leaked Clips from The Joker [WARNING MAJOR SPOILERS] Up: Second Clip Leaked [SEE STAFF POST]

Flutter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,625
Wild that in the past some of the discourse here was spoken out by the conservatives in the United States.

Note that I'm not calling anyone far-right though. Just a comment on the situation.
 

DrBo42

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,466
Edit: Removed quote.

Not sure the intent of the director is actually coming across here, reminds me of 13 Reasons Why. I fear for potential incidents after this comes out.
 

Meowster

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,513
Missouri
It is funny to me how after each iteration of The Joker, people claim it is “the definitive one” that no one will top. No one can top Jack Nicholson - oh wait, here is Mark Hamill. No one can top Mark Hamill - oh wait, here is Heath Ledger. No one can top Heath Ledger - oh wait, here is Joaquin Phoenix. Really shows the versatility of the character to have so many different interpretations and peaks. That being said, Joaquin Phoenix is the best actor of them all, so I wouldn’t be surprised if he did top them all.

All I can say is poor Jared Leto.
 

Cpt-GargameL

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,443
What the? I expected something REALLY bad based off of the comments? "Gore"? There wasn't any flesh busting and popping or even any heads rolling and instestinal tracts slipping out of people. I've seen worse shit on Game of Thrones/breaking bad. IMO anyway.

I will say it was just "weird" it doesn't make sense in the canon for that to happen like how it did. But I guess this is another one of those "different writer, different universe things" DC does. Without context it is hard for me to understand why that happened.

I feel even with context I would just go "nah I don't believe he would do that quite like that anyway". This doesn't seem like joker. It just seems like a crazy guy who was inspired by Joker.
Reminds me of The Killing Joke Joker honestly.
 

sthef360

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
412
Forgive me if I’m putting words in anyone’s mouth, but I feel like the agita in this thread (and elsewhere) boils down to one fundamental thing:

The very reasonable belief that in the wake of the film’s release, our societal structures will inevitably abdicate their own responsibilities if/when there is anyone that takes things too far.

Reddit (and Twitter, and Facebook) will fail to moderate their toxic subs appropriately. The Chan’s of the world will encourage it. Naturally gun manufacturers/lobbyists play their part as well.

Obviously the film should not be censored/unreleased/etc. I don’t think anyone is advocating for that. And it certainly won’t be the film’s fault if some incel does pop off. But I think to just hand wave any concerns people have is just calloused. There is no magic circle. Art influences life and vice versa. And when all the other safeguards have failed (mental health care, gun control, online moderation, traditional social structures) I don’t blame anyone that gets a sinking feeling in their stomach here.
 

Meowster

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,513
Missouri
Wild that in the past some of the discourse here was spoken out by the conservatives in the United States.

Note that I'm not calling anyone far-right though. Just a comment on the situation.
Yeah, it very much sounds like a “video games cause all of our violence” rhetoric we’ve seen by conservatives the past few decades. It is a bit ironic.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,030
You can't see the possible appeal of that first clip to someone that's potentially unstable? Especially the amusement and joy after what he does? Not sure the intent of the director is actually coming across here, reminds me of 13 Reasons Why.
Pay attention to the music and the crowd reaction in the background of that scene. There is nothing joyful about that scene. It's actually very sinister. If anyone gets any joy or inspiration from that, that says more about them than the film. Can't fault the filmmakers for some idiot misinterpreting their work.
 

kmfdmpig

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,388
Forgive me if I’m putting words in anyone’s mouth, but I feel like the agita in this thread (and elsewhere) boils down to one fundamental thing:

The very reasonable belief that in the wake of the film’s release, our societal structures will inevitably abdicate their own responsibilities if/when there is anyone that takes things too far.

Reddit (and Twitter, and Facebook) will fail to moderate their toxic subs appropriately. The Chan’s of the world will encourage it. Naturally gun manufacturers/lobbyists play their part as well.

Obviously the film should not be censored/unreleased/etc. I don’t think anyone is advocating for that. And it certainly won’t be the film’s fault if some incel does pop off. But I think to just hand wave any concerns people have is just calloused. There is no magic circle. Art influences life and vice versa. And when all the other safeguards have failed (mental health care, gun control, online moderation, traditional social structures) I don’t blame anyone that gets a sinking feeling in their stomach here.
That's fair and well stated. I would argue that focusing on social media providing spaces for hate, guns, mental health are all much better avenues to pursue in order to improve society than blaming movies, videogames, music, etc..
 

Flutter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,625
Yeah, it very much sounds like a “video games cause all of our violence” rhetoric we’ve seen by conservatives the past few decades. It is a bit ironic.
way more than a bit, on a freaking videogame forum nonetheless
Yep, it's on most countries on how they failed some issues regarding their citizens.

I was thinking yesterday, about how many films there were in the past 2 decades on Islamic terrorism, and the irony that the biggest threat in the past 5 years was from white supremacists.
 

Double 0

Member
Nov 5, 2017
2,223
I don't see how else you can interpret the following in any way other than a plea to simplify and make it very explicit what the audience is meant to perceive as good or bad.
"When you are dealing with sensitive material, material that if interpreted wrongly can lead to the harm of others? I think it is important to make sure your message gets through without distraction, without glorification of the wrong stuff. "
You can’t see any other interpretation because you outright don’t want to. Straight up. I’m not even sure why I’m continuing this, but I will try to clear this up one last time.

A far gorier movie got this idea way better than it seems like Joker will: Henry: A Portrait of a Serial Killer. There is no sugar coating in that film. Not on the character, the life he lives, people he interacts with, or his actions. It’s horrifying, it has nuance and subtlety, but is clear in it’s intent:l. It uglies an obsession in American pop culture: serial killers.
 

Double 0

Member
Nov 5, 2017
2,223
Forgive me if I’m putting words in anyone’s mouth, but I feel like the agita in this thread (and elsewhere) boils down to one fundamental thing:

The very reasonable belief that in the wake of the film’s release, our societal structures will inevitably abdicate their own responsibilities if/when there is anyone that takes things too far.

Reddit (and Twitter, and Facebook) will fail to moderate their toxic subs appropriately. The Chan’s of the world will encourage it. Naturally gun manufacturers/lobbyists play their part as well.

Obviously the film should not be censored/unreleased/etc. I don’t think anyone is advocating for that. And it certainly won’t be the film’s fault if some incel does pop off. But I think to just hand wave any concerns people have is just calloused. There is no magic circle. Art influences life and vice versa. And when all the other safeguards have failed (mental health care, gun control, online moderation, traditional social structures) I don’t blame anyone that gets a sinking feeling in their stomach here.

Here’s the thing though: our safeguards constantly fail. Hell, in the cases of YouTube and Twitter, the companies let them fail on purpose.

Knowing that does bring an extra sense of dread. And for those saying try to fix them then?

It’s been attempted and continues to be. But going over why those attempts fail is for another thread.
 

Darknight34

Member
Apr 29, 2018
147
I think for me it just feels so bone chillingly real. For example.. Nolan trilogy batman was scary, but we don't see people like that. This Joker feels so real, he acts like some real people to a degree, and it's like he's carrying a very real terror in his acting. It's really well done.. But.. I don't want to see that. It feels like when you see someone really killed..I don't want to see that.
 

Flutter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,625
You can’t see any other interpretation because you outright don’t want to. Straight up. I’m not even sure why I’m continuing this, but I will try to clear this up one last time.

A far gorier movie got this idea way better than it seems like Joker will: Henry: A Portrait of a Serial Killer. There is no sugar coating in that film. Not on the character, the life he lives, people he interacts with, or his actions. It’s horrifying, it has nuance and subtlety, but is clear in it’s intent:l. It uglies an obsession in American pop culture: serial killers.
You're looking at this film in a biased sense though. 2 very short clips than the movie itself.
 

Vex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,983
Reminds me of The Killing Joke Joker honestly.
The thing that makes this unlike the joker from killing joke for me is he seems really angry while committing these acts. Like, he's just pissed off and really intense. It seems more like a physical performance. And it's really personal for some reason.

With killing joke joker, he was more in it for the laugh. Almost a sort of troll-like performance. He gets a kick out of seeing people suffer... even if he wasn't there. With this joker, none of this seemed personal. He just had a series of bad situations happen to him that pushed him over the edge. Now everything's funny. At least if we're talking about the animated movie of course. I'm not familiar with the comic book version.
 

Cuburger

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,283
The movie literally has Joker inspire others by his murders and the climax is him on his soapbox having the last word blaming society for creating him before he murders someone on live TV.

#Tooedgy4me

It deserves the controversy/dialog surrounding it for how it chooses to portray things. You don't get to invoke provocative imagery and charged rhetoric and say it can't be criticized because it's art. It's telling that so many people defending the film have to resort to rhetorical defenses like saying people are calling for censorship, that it's a slippery slope, and likening criticism to blaming all violence on video games.

Yeah I think I'll pass on this film, since despite Phoenix's acting, I question its artistic merit.
 

Dullahan

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,984
This Joker purely feels like a true villain. The music cues get that. There's nothing glorified about him. He's a twisted murderer with a broken smile, and a world view that makes sense to him alone. Phoenix is getting that Oscar for sure.
 

SSJDio

The Fallen
Apr 13, 2018
5,774
I think for me it just feels so bone chillingly real. For example.. Nolan trilogy batman was scary, but we don't see people like that. This Joker feels so real, he acts like some real people to a degree, and it's like he's carrying a very real terror in his acting. It's really well done.. But.. I don't want to see that. It feels like when you see someone really killed..I don't want to see that.
This is going to be the appeal to alot of people. They want that realistic comic book movie at the cost of it being boring and predictable. Two things that the Joker isn't suppose to be.
 

TiC

Member
Jul 12, 2019
99
Wow. Phoenix is getting an Oscar this year. 2 great actors are going to be owing their Oscars to 1 comic book character.
 

Soj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,887
Phoenix's performance seems good, but the dialogue is embarrassing. It's impossible to pass judgement on the creative vision as a whole based on a couple clips, but these are very much in line with what I was expecting.

WB isn't interested in doing comic accurate takes on any of these characters, so yeah, just do whatever.

People will love this, they loved the Nolan movies.
 

NTGYK

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,189
This could be easily seen as a prequel to Reeves Batman film since this is early 80s Gotham and that's early/mid 90s Gotham, during the heyday of films like Se7en and it'll be detective/crime focused.
 

Joeytj

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,307
Pay attention to the music and the crowd reaction in the background of that scene. There is nothing joyful about that scene. It's actually very sinister. If anyone gets any joy or inspiration from that, that says more about them than the film. Can't fault the filmmakers for some idiot misinterpreting their work.
This is a very naive way to look at the movie. Or any movie. Just saw the clip, and it's great acting, but I can totally see some incel or alt-righter glorifying it. They (director, writers of the movie) don't make De NIro's character go very far in the counter-argument.

Obviously, we all need to see the movie first, not just a clip from the one of the movie's the most shocking moments. But, like someone else says, nobody should handwave away the concern that too many people might glorify the Joker as an anti-hero. It's not so much that well-minded or "smart" people aren't going to pick up on the "music and crowd reaction" nuances of that scene, like you say, but that people already susceptible to these types of glorifying images are going to horribly misinterpret the movie, if the movie is even bothering to avoid such misinterpretations.

It's precisely the type of misinterpretation of a movie we don't need right now. The worse of times for it. For the sake of the movie, the actors involved (a lot of who I admire a lot), the director, Warner Bros, and others, I hope the movie manages to pull this off, because if it doesn't, it does more harm than any good.
 

cognizant

Member
Dec 19, 2017
5,304
That...dialogue really was terrible, you guys were right. Zero subtext or metaphor. Pretty much what I expected from the writer/director of this movie, and yeah I'm on the side that thinks if this movie has bad execution of its themes, it will just be inspiring to the wrong crowd. Phoenix's performance may be making up for the mediocre script. Hot take: it might take a while before this sentiment becomes the general consensus, everyone's too wowed by Phoenix and the idea of an R rated Joker movie at the moment. It's actually ironic this movie was inspired by Taxi Driver, if you think about it. If it misjudges the tone and intent of Scorsese's films anyway.

Will wait until it's streaming somewhere before I watch it.
 

Flutter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,625
I find it weird that some of you already judged the whole film based on 3 short clips, even when people who have said the whole movie have said otherwise.

There's nothing wrong with being cautious. It's also something else to judge it completely.
 

Ross62

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,690
I find it weird that some of you already judged the whole film based on 3 short clips, even when people who have said the whole movie have said otherwise.

There's nothing wrong with being cautious. It's also something else to judge it completely.
Confirmation bias and stubbornness
 

Jombie

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
5,405
Alabama
I don't know why people are surprised at the violence. The dialogue in the first clip made my eyes roll back into my head.
 

RedRum

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,770
Am I too late to say that the first clip sent shivers down my spine. Shit. I can't wait to see this.
 

Razmos

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,273
The movie literally has Joker inspire others by his murders and the climax is him on his soapbox having the last word blaming society for creating him before he murders someone on live TV.

#Tooedgy4me

It deserves the controversy/dialog surrounding it for how it chooses to portray things. You don't get to invoke provocative imagery and charged rhetoric and say it can't be criticized because it's art. It's telling that so many people defending the film have to resort to rhetorical defenses like saying people are calling for censorship, that it's a slippery slope, and likening criticism to blaming all violence on video games.

Yeah I think I'll pass on this film, since despite Phoenix's acting, I question its artistic merit.
Pretty much my opinion on it also.
I get it's just a film but people downplaying others concerns is very common, especially on this site where entertainment is wayyy more important than real life issues
 

Instro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,658
People being so concerned about what incels(or whoever) will think of this film only drives the idea for incels, internet trolls, etc. to use it as some kind of manifesto(real or fake) because it will cause pearl clutching from liberals. I mean I get the concern that the character and film could end up being a Gordon Gecko/Wall Street situation, where the moral of the film is ignored by those who identify with the character, but ultimately if people are looking for some kind of validation from this film, they are already long gone and would have gotten that validation elsewhere.
 

JigglesBunny

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
7,228
Chicago
Joaquin looks like he’s killing it but I don’t feel that “visceral, real terror” that others seem to be feeling from that first clip. The second clip was much better in that regard. Plus, that writing in the clip was downright horrific. Still excited but I’m not chomping at the bit based on these clips alone.
 

MillionIII

Member
Sep 11, 2018
2,998
The movie literally has Joker inspire others by his murders and the climax is him on his soapbox having the last word blaming society for creating him before he murders someone on live TV.

#Tooedgy4me

It deserves the controversy/dialog surrounding it for how it chooses to portray things. You don't get to invoke provocative imagery and charged rhetoric and say it can't be criticized because it's art. It's telling that so many people defending the film have to resort to rhetorical defenses like saying people are calling for censorship, that it's a slippery slope, and likening criticism to blaming all violence on video games.

Yeah I think I'll pass on this film, since despite Phoenix's acting, I question its artistic merit.
That's the character, unless you want a Joker movie where batman cameos in the end and beats him up so the audience knows that he's bad.
 
Last edited:

TissueBox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,342
Urinated States of America
It is funny to me how after each iteration of The Joker, people claim it is “the definitive one” that no one will top. No one can top Jack Nicholson - oh wait, here is Mark Hamill. No one can top Mark Hamill - oh wait, here is Heath Ledger. No one can top Heath Ledger - oh wait, here is Joaquin Phoenix. Really shows the versatility of the character to have so many different interpretations and peaks. That being said, Joaquin Phoenix is the best actor of them all, so I wouldn’t be surprised if he did top them all.

All I can say is poor Jared Leto.
Leto's was an entertaining spin. But then again, that's coming from a Suicide Squad devotee.

*sigh* Too bad they're going to act as if it never existed now....
 

Super Hype

Member
Oct 26, 2017
625
LOL at people going from "video games don't cause violence" to "The Joker film will cause the collapse of modern society as we know it"

Don't dig the voice, but Phoenix is killin' it in the scenes
 

Brat-Sampson

Member
Nov 16, 2017
385
Joker is dangerous.

Fight Club is dangerous.

Taxi Driver is dangerous.

Catcher in the Rye is Dangerous.

And yet somehow we're still progressing.
 

Masterz1337

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,309
For all the people saying the complainers that this movie is going to cause violence is the same bad argument as "games cause violence", it is important to note that there are very different matters at play here. Violent games and movies are not meant to make people identify with the villain or show that the violence is a solution to their problems. The movie is clearly following incel arthur and how violence and notoriety makes him feel better and powerful in a world where he feels powerless. It certainly is going to appeal to a certain set of people. But the message of the film seems to me to show the horror of these types of people. It's designed to scare and warn, not defend the poor incels.

Even if it inspires some people to want to take up the mantle of this Joker or this Joker inspires him, that's not the movies fault. The movie is a commentary of the time we live in and issues our society faces and what is erupting from that. Any violence that spills from the movie into real life, isn't the fault of the movie, it's the fault of the people who commit violence.

Perhaps this movie will make people pay more attention to certain problems in society that need addressing, perhaps it will shock some people who feel like they share what they have in common with Incel Arthur to not want to end up like him. Perhaps it will raise awareness of why we need better mental health in this country and how fringe movements appeal to certain groups of people.

I don't think you can blame the movie for talking about our times, if that is indeed the end of the movie, it's a pretty bleak portrayal of the Joker of a pathetic sad man who for all his notoriety, is still a pathetic weak and insane man.
 
Last edited:

Sanka

Member
Feb 17, 2019
727
With all the hype and worry around it this movie is going to be the next big meme in the alt-right space. And therefore could very likely be mentioned in the next manifesto of one of these deranged fuckers. But anyone willing to commit to a mass murder because of a movie would have done so either way.
It's the spaces in which these people find a community of likeminded people that radicalizes them and then at some point get them to the tipping point. That is at the root of this.