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Leaked Clips from The Joker [WARNING MAJOR SPOILERS] Up: Second Clip Leaked [SEE STAFF POST]

Pandora012

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,558
it's interesting that some of DC's most successful non-comic stuff tend not to be things taken or adapted from actual comics and just invented/created with the comics as a looseish outline. Like, with the success of this movie is THIS will be the new Joker template in comics, probably. Just like how Harley was invented on the animated series and was so popular she became comics canon. Like, after this are they gonna adapt any comic stories or with Joker?
Not sure this movie will be a template for joker. Mostly because, he kinda already has series, and well comic joker is already really really fucked up. So don't really see what they will take from this. Might be a one off Elseworld thing.
 

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,728
I can’t believe people making the video game comparisons are serious. The video game panic in the 90s was over campy and schlocky video games that were overtly violent in some instances, but generally detached from reality and never attached to a serious ideology. This movie is very close to real life ideologies that are quite problematic in our society and can be easily seen as glorifying them. Then again, I guess it seems perfect for people who can’t understand that nuance.
 

MechaBreaker

Member
Jun 26, 2018
2,079
Wait, i thought video games are the reason. I dont know what to think now.

Trump would be proud of some of the comments here. Good job .

Blame a movie on an attack that didnt happen yet.

And when it happens which it will because ..well....america... you will be here and say:

Seeeeee what did i tell you.


Fuck this
Considering a mass shooting at a Batman movie screening where the culprit claimed he was “the joker” has already happened once before....

Maybe educate yourself:



Also what is this bad faith “video games don’t cause violence”?

Media as a whole CAN influence people, what do you think propaganda is?

Most video games don’t influence mass shootings, because most video games don’t push ideologies that advocate real violence against real people as positive things.
 
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OtherWorldly

Member
Dec 3, 2018
2,431
Considering a mass shooting at a Batman movie screening where the culprit claimed he was “the joker” has already happened once before....

Maybe educate yourself:


Are you suggesting we censor / regulate content as to not trigger the Nutjobs ?
 

RyanW

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
4,288
Considering a mass shooting at a Batman movie screening where the culprit claimed he was “the joker” has already happened once before....

Maybe educate yourself:


Ironic.
 

Spehornoob

Member
Nov 15, 2017
759
Considering a mass shooting at a Batman movie screening where the culprit claimed he was “the joker” has already happened once before....

Maybe educate yourself:


Do we think he did this because he was specifically inspired by the Joker's ideology? It seems more likely to me that he called himself the Joker because he decided to target a Batman showing.

Ironic.
Oh. Well then.

Either way, I don't think artists have any responsibility to consider how the worst of the world will interpret their pieces. If anyone lashes out due to a Joker movie, they were looking for a reason to in the first place.
 

OtherWorldly

Member
Dec 3, 2018
2,431
I can’t believe people making the video game comparisons are serious. The video game panic in the 90s was over campy and schlocky video games that were overtly violent in some instances, but generally detached from reality and never attached to a serious ideology. This movie is very close to real life ideologies that are quite problematic in our society and can be easily seen as glorifying them. Then again, I guess it seems perfect for people who can’t understand that nuance.
again. No one is answering this who is concerned about it . Do you suggest we censor / regulate content as to not trigger nutjobs ?
 

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,728
again. No one is answering this who is concerned about it . Do you suggest we censor / regulate content as to not trigger nutjobs ?
No? Just include it in the discourse and be intelligent about it. Don’t try to silence legitimate criticism with dumb arguments just because the edgy stuff in the movie looks cool. That’s all. “I like the movie” and “I think the movie depicts a really shitty viewpoint” are two completely separate conversations that can happen at the same time.
 

Capra

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,789
again. No one is answering this who is concerned about it . Do you suggest we censor / regulate content as to not trigger nutjobs ?
I think the mentality is more along the lines of people who think we shouldn't have news outlets broadcasting the names and faces of mass shooters and discussing their manifestos.

But I mean we do that anyway and I don't see this movie radicalizing anyone that the publicity generated by those myriad shootings and their coverage didn't already so I'm just gonna enjoy the movie if it's good
 

Future Gazer

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
1,607
Fuck, that first clip is so visceral. Joaquin is obviously acting out of his skin but the sound design might be my favorite part.

This movie is going to a watershed moment.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,417
I can’t believe people making the video game comparisons are serious. The video game panic in the 90s was over campy and schlocky video games that were overtly violent in some instances, but generally detached from reality and never attached to a serious ideology. This movie is very close to real life ideologies that are quite problematic in our society and can be easily seen as glorifying them. Then again, I guess it seems perfect for people who can’t understand that nuance.
I'm kind of confused about this post. I think the comparison to video games being brought up now has less to do with calling to mind the decades-old crusades by the likes of Jack Thompson and all the negative attention that ultimately led to the creation of the ESRB and more that this is something being brought up right now by right-wing politicians eager to find any scapegoat that isn't guns themselves to blame for gun violence. I think kids playing Calladuty is more the focus for them these days than Grand Theft Auto, Mortal Kombat, and Doom.
 

MechaBreaker

Member
Jun 26, 2018
2,079
Are you suggesting we censor / regulate content as to not trigger the Nutjobs ?
I haven't seen the movie yet, but those clips seem to lean heavily into the mindset of the already deranged people who go on killing sprees for their "ideologies"..

I don't think it'll end up glorifying it necessarily, but I'm worried that it'll be the takeaway for a lot of unstable people already on that path.

Ironic.
Alright, he didn't claim he was "the joker". But it doesn't change the fact that the movie (if it does end up glorifying the joker in the way I think they might) might inspire people to commit mass murder, just like how we don't want people talking about the people who commit mass murder for fear that there'll be copycat crimes.
 

Mendrox

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,385
How can somebody be concerned about a movie or videogame?
People are concerned about everything nowadays. Chilling scenes though and I can see why people talk about nutjobs getting that last kick they would need to do shit like this. Hmm, but we shouldn't censor stuff.
 

Future Gazer

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
1,607
The OT for this movie is going to be absolutely insufferable. We should probably have a separate thread dedicated to the fearmongering.
 

MalcomFleX

Member
Sep 9, 2019
120
This movie is going to be incredible. Those clips were horrific, which was the intent. Todd is capable of greatness, but he's also capable of complete crap, so I wasn't sure what to expect but it sure sounds like he delivered an instant classic.
 

MilesQ

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,422
I vaguely remember the NZ killer shouted out PewDiePie or whatever his name is during his livestream.

People who are going to commit a mass shooting will latch onto anything that's popular at the time to push their message further.

The only one in recent memory who didn't was the Las Vegas shooter. Maybe that was down to his age?
 

Aurongel

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,812
I vaguely remember the NZ killer shouted out PewDiePie or whatever his name is during his livestream.

People who are going to commit a mass shooting will latch onto anything that's popular at the time to push their message further.

The only one in recent memory who didn't was the Las Vegas shooter. Maybe that was down to his age?
He didn't want his motives known in quite the same internet-savvy way that other recent shooters did. I think your analysis of the NZ assailant's PewDiePie comment is spot on.
 

ShadowKingpin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,818
I normally will never go to the theater multiple times to see a film, but this I can see is one of those incredibly rare events that I want to experience in multiple viewings (Thanks, Regal!).
 

Snowy

Member
Nov 11, 2017
599
I continue to be perplexed at the political outrage and concern trolling directed at this, in that I don’t really know what anybody pushing it wants other than to make sure people know that they find incels and stochastic terrorist 8chan types reprehensible.
 

Kurdel

Member
Nov 7, 2017
8,876
Society turned him into a clown!

His performance looks stellar as expected, but this movie looks like a meme come to life I cannot take it seriously at all
 

Brinbe

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
15,622
Terana
It's out of context and just a clip, but those clips made me not want to watch this at all in the least. Gross garbage.

I'm already sure people, the wrong sorts of people, will take the exact wrong message from this and that will be unfortunate as it's explicitly commenting on that.
 

TheIdiot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,838
I only saw the first clip, but I really liked the normal "night show" shot of him just fidgeting in his chair.
 

Haee

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,786
I can’t believe people making the video game comparisons are serious. The video game panic in the 90s was over campy and schlocky video games that were overtly violent in some instances, but generally detached from reality and never attached to a serious ideology. This movie is very close to real life ideologies that are quite problematic in our society and can be easily seen as glorifying them. Then again, I guess it seems perfect for people who can’t understand that nuance.
Couldn't have said better myself. It's pretty sad to see the majority here just handwave this. Of course, we won't know if this movie theme is going to be portrayed well enough until release, but to just deny any kind of concern in this context is just naive.
 

OtherWorldly

Member
Dec 3, 2018
2,431
Couldn't have said better myself. It's pretty sad to seem the majority here just handwave this. Of course, we won't know if this movie theme is going to be portrayed well enough until release, but to just deny any kind of criticism in this context is just naive.
Because the notion is writers producers and Hollywood execs should self censor , self regulate and shouldn’t tell any story because God forbid it might be taken up as a cause by a nut like V for Vendetta, fight club, taxi driver,
 

Brinbe

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
15,622
Terana
Fwiw, these festival audiences/critice loved the likes of Green Book too, so I wouldn't say that's a great barometer that this is gonna be automatically great too.

We'll just have to wait and see in a few weeks.
 
Dec 22, 2017
2,724
Do you suggest we censor / regulate content as to not trigger nutjobs ?
I am against censorship, but I think it’s fine to discuss these things in the context of criticism. I love Taxi Driver, American Psycho, and Fight Club. I recognize that it’s OK for people to not like these films, and people are allowed to question whether the messaging is misinterpreted by most fans. Doesn’t stop my enjoyment.

(I expect I will like Joker too, but will wait until I see it to judge it)
 

Haee

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,786
Because the notion is writers producers and Hollywood execs should self censor , self regulate and shouldn’t tell any story because God forbid it might be taken up as a cause by a nut like V for Vendetta, fight club, taxi driver,
Nobody said anything about self censor. But honestly it's pretty out of touch if a movie glorifies and make us feel sympathetic to a mass murderer. What I mean I hope this movie accomplishes on setting the tone and message of disturbing and evil so people who are already on the edge can't use this movie as a acceptance of what they are thinking of doing.
 

Scrooge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
591
I'll be pleasantly surprised if there isn't a mass shooting at a theater, school, or similar that is partly inspired by this. Some young, male loser in Joker makeup shooting up a screening of Frozen 2 wouldn't shock me at all at this point. And no, I'm not advocating censorship.
 

Baccus

Member
Dec 4, 2018
2,379
I love that you can feel Arthur and Joker being two distinct personalities. The snap happens in a matter of seconds, but Joker is every bit as majestic as the comic book incarnation. When Arthur finally snaps and talks to the camera I can't help but feel the similarities between that aura and the one Heath ledger had when he shot the "cam footage" in TDK.
I'll be pleasantly surprised if there isn't a mass shooting at a theater, school, or similar that is partially inspired by this. Some young, male loser in Joker makeup shooting up a screening of Frozen 2 wouldn't shock me at all at this point. And no, I'm not advocating censorship.
Not the movie's problem that they sell guns like candy in Circusland, specially to crazy people. Blame the system, not the art.
 

prophetvx

Member
Nov 28, 2017
1,091
Alright, he didn't claim he was "the joker". But it doesn't change the fact that the movie (if it does end up glorifying the joker in the way I think they might) might inspire people to commit mass murder, just like how we don't want people talking about the people who commit mass murder for fear that there'll be copycat crimes.
How many mass shootings have occurred in the US that weren't at a cinema or idolizing some fictional character?

If it prevents 1 mass shooting per decade by not releasing this film... Cool you're now at 2999 mass shootings instead of 3000. I'm going to guess that movies aren't the problem.
 

C.Mongler

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,479
Washington, DC
Ironic.
Not only is it literally BS, but the dude was stockpiling guns and ammo months before the Dark Knight ~Rises~ even came out. He knew he was going to do this shit long before he had any full picture of Ledger's Joker ~I am an idiot with terrible memory and was corrected as to which film this took place in~. And that's the thing: people who do this shit are already well on their way to being murderers prior to whatever controversial pop-culture shock-schtick of the week is. Saying "Oh it was video games/movies/the Joker" is just our way of feebly understanding how someone could do these horrendous acts as "normal" members of society. It's certainly a convenient out that the media/society can dangle for the killer to excuse their behavior and months of red flags that were ignored, but It's more complicated than just one single event.

I winced at the amount of times I had to go all "a society" in this
 
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Oct 25, 2017
1,417
Not only is it literally BS, but the dude was stockpiling guns and ammo months before the Dark Knight even came out. He knew he was going to do this shit long before he had any full picture of Ledger's Joker.
I'll note in advance that I'm not attempting to argue for any argument that he might have been inspired by the Joker, but this was during the time of Rises, not the Dark Knight. So Ledger's Joker had been around for a while at this point.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,405
UK
I can’t believe people making the video game comparisons are serious. The video game panic in the 90s was over campy and schlocky video games that were overtly violent in some instances, but generally detached from reality and never attached to a serious ideology. This movie is very close to real life ideologies that are quite problematic in our society and can be easily seen as glorifying them. Then again, I guess it seems perfect for people who can’t understand that nuance.
I'm inclined to think that people thinking this will lead to mass shootings that otherwise wouldn't happen are going a little far, but at the same time anybody brushing aside criticism about the movie mishandling themes as though they're asking for the film to be banned are far worse. You can't just brush aside criticism of Song of the South or even Birth of a Nation as "Well, movies don't inspire people to do bad things!" If it mishandles the themes (that aren't insignificant at the current time from isolation due to mental illness, the working class' hopelessness against violence at the hands of capitalist, and the incel aspects that seem to be neutered from the leaked script) the movie should be criticised for it. If it manages to handle them well like the films it's aping such as Taxi Driver do then it deserves it's praise. Though after watching one of the scenes I'm hedging my bet on the former.