Leaked Clips from The Joker [WARNING MAJOR SPOILERS] Up: Second Clip Leaked [SEE STAFF POST]

cognizant

Member
Dec 19, 2017
5,297
I hate how talented people are hyped up and then torn down. Everyone loved Nolan then shat on him. Everyone loved Heath, now I'm seeing dismissive posts about his performance. Everyone loves Phoenix, Denis Villeneuve, etc, etc until it will be their turn one day. Come on everyone, don't be like that.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,633
UK
I said it doesn't "need to be a moral compass or held responsible for larger societal issues". If a film chooses to make a statement, provide commentary or engage in bigotry, obviously those decisions should be questioned.

A movie about a mentally deranged person doesn't necessarily speak about the alt-right, nor does someone dressing up as a clown. It certainly talks about mental illness and how that addresses it will be interesting. However, the era and subject matter are not a direct commentary on the current political climate we have, so assuming that it must address it is being unfair to those involved with the film. To suggest otherwise implies that any movie about a mentally ill, white male must be about incels and the alt-right, therefore must touch on the subject in a certain way. Ultimately, it's up to the stakeholders in a movie to make the decisions in what they should and shouldn't address, and a movie should be judged on its merits, not whatever political statement people believe it should be making.
I was going to give up on this because you're seemingly flat out ignoring what I'm saying and constantly bringing up the alt-right as though that's the crux of this conversation when I didn't really mention it in regards to this movie outside of my first post where I said they'd adopt another icon if not the Joker.

I just wanted to point out suggesting it doesn't speak to the current political climate doesn't ring true at all. Yes it's set in the 80s, but the movie based at a time in a city on the brink of civil unrest in a period of immense wealth disparity, focuses on the cult of celebrity/memes being adopted as icons, and ultimately a mental ill individual that at least on some level is motivated by being spurned by a woman he's interested in. It's blatant that they relate to modern day issues.
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
9,146
We need to talk about Kevin has a hell of a lot more relevance to the alt-right / incels than this does. Yet you still have this idiotic circus carrying on about it.
Outside of Kevin becoming a mass murderer, not really.

It’s also hard to argue the movie has much relevance to the USA’s disproportionate number of mass shootings when Kevin’s murder weapon is a bow and arrow.
 

prophetvx

Member
Nov 28, 2017
1,198
Outside of Kevin becoming a mass murderer, not really.

It’s also hard to argue the movie has much relevance to the USA’s disproportionate number of mass shootings when Kevin’s murder weapon is a bow and arrow.
I haven't seen the Joker with an AR-15 either.

I was going to give up on this because you're seemingly flat out ignoring what I'm saying and constantly bringing up the alt-right as though that's the crux of this conversation when I didn't really mention it in regards to this movie outside of my first post where I said they'd adopt another icon if not the Joker.

I just wanted to point out suggesting it doesn't speak to the current political climate doesn't ring true at all. Yes it's set in the 80s, but the movie based at a time in a city on the brink of civil unrest in a period of immense wealth disparity, focuses on the cult of celebrity/memes being adopted as icons, and ultimately a mental ill individual that at least on some level is motivated by being spurned by a woman he's interested in. It's blatant that they relate to modern day issues.
It relates to issues that have existed well before the current climate and will exist well beyond it. Social outcast becomes deranged and violent, this isn't a new concept.

Just because I quote you and mention other points of discussion in response, doesn't mean I'm ignoring what you're saying. I'm simply discussing the topic at hand.
 

Odrion

Member
Oct 27, 2017
713
Joaquin Phoenix really does seem to have elevated this film. Some of these lines could be seen as laughable, comparable to how Alan Garner in The Hangover was written ("Go Werewolf", really?) but Joaquin Phoenix deliveries it in a way that feels broken and isolated.

Also this film is totally going to inspire some terrible people. And fucking lol at Resetera of all places falling back on the "Bu bu videogame violence exists!" angle and trying to silence discussion. Is your first rule of media being problematic and worth criticizing is "It has to not interest me"?
 

Winterreise

Member
Feb 28, 2018
1,628
Wow, far more interested in this movie after watching the first of the leaked scenes than I was after any trailer. Looks absolutely chilling. Wish the rest of the DC movie universe was more dark...
 

rude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,329
We need to talk about Kevin has a hell of a lot more relevance to the alt-right / incels than this does. Yet you still have this idiotic circus carrying on about it.
We Need To Talk About Kevin has nothing to do with politics, bullying, guns, or sexuality lmao. It even makes a point not to blame Kevin’s behavior on mental health either.
 

Tremorah

Member
Dec 3, 2018
1,037
Saw the first one and fucking hell the tone of this movie is fucking eerie

Phoenix is a shoe in for a Oscar nod
 

Radeo

Banned
Apr 26, 2019
1,305
Can't wait for the mass knifing lone wolves this will inspire in the UK

That's how this works right
 

cormano91939

Member
Sep 4, 2019
75
"How about another joke? What do you get when you cross a mentally ill loner with a society that abandons him and treats him like trash? I'll tell you what you get. You get what you fucking deserve!"

*shoots Rober DiNero in the face*
*sigh* This confirms my fears. I have been very suspicious of this film's interpretation of the Joker. They are depicting him as a pathetic, pitiable sap. And that's just not the Joker, to me. And, judging from the above line, it seems like he is, on top of all that, a self-pitying emo.

May be a good film, but what a sorry Joker.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,355
England
*sigh* This confirms my fears. I have been very suspicious of this film's interpretation of the Joker. They are depicting him as a pathetic, pitiable sap. And that's just not the Joker, to me. And, judging from the above line, it seems like he is, on top of all that, a self-pitying emo.

May be a good film, but what a sorry Joker.
Well they are going for realism here. This isn't a superhero movie. It's inspired by the idea and iconography of the Joker, but that's fundamentally how far it goes.

We've had movies like this one in the past and they're typically very good. I can't speak for Joker because it's obviously not out yet and, I must admit, I'm not as impressed by these clips as a lot of people here seem to be.

Despite that, this is their chance to give us a Joker unlike any we've seen before and maybe that's reason enough for this movie to exist.
 

Coyote Zamora

Member
Jul 19, 2019
372
So, I watched the clips and this just isn't appealing to me. A sad sack gets treated poorly by society does a few killings and inspires others. That's not the Joker to me, that's just a guy in makeup.
 

MaitreWakou

Avenger
May 15, 2018
4,973
Toulouse, France
Just watched the first clip, liked it a lot.
I knew they would kinda be inspired by The Dark Knight Returns (the comic book by Miller) for the TV show scene. Glad they did, this is fucking brutal and terrifying.

As for the discussions about "it's not the Joker", I'm definitely not a Joker expert, don't read DC Comics, just have read Miller's and Jeph Loeb's work on Batman, so I can't really tell. I understand that some people might be disappointed that it's not the version of the Joker they want, but honestly, I always think it's better this way. Let them reinterpret it.
Personally, I don't get the point of watching the same thing that I read in my comic books.
Now I can definitely understand if some people simply don't like THIS reinterpretation, but would be down for something else. I just want to say that, imo, reinterpretation is always the way to go for comic book movies.

For instance, Sam Raimi's Spider-Man is sooo different from the comics. He took all the Freudians symbolism from DeMatteis' run, and did this melodramatic tragedy, with a lot of Christian's imagery. That's definitely not what people think of when they think about Spider-Man, and that's why it's so interesting.
Same goes for what Taika Waititi and then the Russo brothers did with Thor, and what James Gunn did with the Guardians.
I'm always in for those weird and unexpected takes on characters.
 
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James3D

Member
Oct 25, 2017
437
Is Batman or his parents or butler or car or anything in this movie? I saw the mental hospital in the trailer. Any other stuff?
 

hydro94530

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,145
Bay Area
Acting looks great, but it still makes me uncomfortable. I know, some of y'all will defend this no matter what and that's cool. At the same time, y'all should understand why this subject makes some of us uneasy in this day and age. It's not the fact that he's a villian and killing people. It's just that they choose to make him a loser who blames everyone else for his problems so he starts killing folks. And the fact that he's "inspires" others.

Would've been so much better if he was just a normal dude with a family, good job, whatever, who wanted some excitement so he decided to go all American Psycho, and if the movie made it clear that he was fucking nuts, and made him hated by everyone in Gotham. Not some figure to inspire folks to "Fight the Man." That shit is so lame.
Sounds like Falling Down. Great movie.
 
Aug 28, 2018
44
I love Joaquin Phoenix but these clips are making me think he was kind of an uninspired pick? Like I’m sure he’ll be great but it seems like he’s just doing The Master.
 

Cpt-GargameL

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,422
Is Batman or his parents or butler or car or anything in this movie? I saw the mental hospital in the trailer. Any other stuff?
 

carlsojo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,512
San Francisco Bay Area
*sigh* This confirms my fears. I have been very suspicious of this film's interpretation of the Joker. They are depicting him as a pathetic, pitiable sap. And that's just not the Joker, to me. And, judging from the above line, it seems like he is, on top of all that, a self-pitying emo.

May be a good film, but what a sorry Joker.
I'm guessing you never read the Killing Joke where the Joker starts out as a pathetic, pitiable sap.
 

cognizant

Member
Dec 19, 2017
5,297
Heath Ledger will remain my GOAT for a long while I think. I just love how nobody knows anything about his Joker, it makes him truly frightning. Kinda like the xenomorph in Alien, who is now ruined thanks to explaining its origin in rubbish sequels.
 

Clefargle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,806
Limburg
I did, and I had the same reaction there. But it was somewhat redeemed by the fact that he made up his past, so I didn't have to accept that it actually happened.
Do you remember Oswald Cobblepot in Batman returns? He has a very similar backstory to the joker’s from the killing joke. Outcast, rejected, disfigured, then he went on to create a ruthless gang of criminals and kill people to stick it to society. The joker and the penguin among other villains in Batman’s rouge’s gallery have pitiable backstories that they use as justification for their insanity or violence. Like mr freeze. But that’s not the point, at no point does any of that justify the murder and mayhem they commit. Nothing could justify the things the joker does. Does that have to be spelled out?
 
Dec 11, 2018
2,368
*sigh* This confirms my fears. I have been very suspicious of this film's interpretation of the Joker. They are depicting him as a pathetic, pitiable sap. And that's just not the Joker, to me. And, judging from the above line, it seems like he is, on top of all that, a self-pitying emo.

May be a good film, but what a sorry Joker.
Much more interesting than some petty criminal falling into a vat of magic sauce that disfigures him and turns him into a super villain.
 

cormano91939

Member
Sep 4, 2019
75
There are (at least) two aspects to Joker's character that are undermined by making his backstory pathetic:

1) His edge, his menacing presence. He is the king of villains, the baddest of the bad. That's undermined if you're a pathetic wimp.

2) His glamour and suave mystique. I remember, quite vividly, everybody leaning in toward the TV whenever Joker appeared on BTAS or JLU. And that's because, despite him being a bad guy that you want Batman to defeat, he is cool as balls. He has confidence, showmanship, and did I mention confidence? This guy actually is FUN to watch, my brothers, friends, and were all hyped as hell whenever he came on because he showed everyone up, was cool, and was just plain old fun to watch. This is totally undermined if you know that, underneath, is actually a terribly unfunny, pathetic, weasel.

So. This is just not my Joker, and I am of the belief that depictions like this decreases the character's sway and prestige.
 

cormano91939

Member
Sep 4, 2019
75
So, for me, my taking umbrage with this depiction is not about me caring if they make him sympathetic (though that is stupid - one of the things about Joker is that he is just pure madness and evil, don't try to rationalize his motivations), but more about making the character just, well, less cool.