The movie seems to want to make him somewhat of an anti-hero that is at least partially justified in his actions.
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Leaked Clips from The Joker [WARNING MAJOR SPOILERS] Up: Second Clip Leaked [SEE STAFF POST]
- Thread starter SweetNicole
- Start date
I was only able to catch the first clip (both are down now, are there any mirrors) and I didn't really see anything that would suggest they are trying to turn him into a anti-hero. He seems psychotic, rambling and is lashing out and eventually snaps and causes violence because he doesn't like what De Niro is saying to him. Maybe the second clip shows his anti-hero side more?
That was fucking amazing. Hope there isn't more gore though, won't get the GF to come with me lol.
Sooo the movie is blaming Joker's mental illness for his violent behavior? Cool. Very good. More stigmatizing of the mentally ill please.
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The first clip has him joke about how society mistreats him and he says people are awful that that Robert Deniro's character invited him on the show to laugh at him and make fun of him.
Also, according to what I've heard from the script leaks
Arthur's first murder was of some Wall Street stock brokers which is what inspires the poor of Gotham to treat him as a hero for going after the fat cats.
We'll see, but it sounds like in order to make him sympathetic, they made him justified in his actions and that sounds like they are painting him more as an anti-hero with his own moral code.
At least, I now know that I won't watch this movie. Way too gruesome for my liking.
This as well. I hate it when movies and TV shows paint the bad guys are mentally ill: I believe that the general public then makes the (wrong) inference that you have to be wary of mentally ill people, because they might kill you as soon as they have a panic attack. It reinforces the cliché that mental illness is a danger for other people.
This as well. I hate it when movies and TV shows paint the bad guys are mentally ill: I believe that the general public then makes the (wrong) inference that you have to be wary of mentally ill people, because they might kill you as soon as they have a panic attack. It reinforces the cliché that mental illness is a danger for other people.
The makeup does a fantastic job of hiding the worry and uncertainty in the long shot after shooting the guy.
e: gamers rise up
e: gamers rise up
I mean imo that's Batman and Gotham in general. They lock these characters up in a mental institution. A good chunk of Batman's Rouge gallery were normal people whose minds were broken by the fucked up city. Some were already bad people, but others weren't. Like Two Face, Joker in some of his backstories, and Catwomen.
I'm really in conflict about this film, especially so after the leaked footage in the OP.
On one hand, I do like some iterations of the Joker as a bad guy and he's one of the most iconic comic baddies in my eyes because of some of the excellent acted portrayals of him.
But when he's left to a solo film where the early material feels like he's kinda aggrandized, and his perspective and actions are aggrandized with no check-balance from the Bat family, I admit it feels eerily and disturbingly familiar and real, especially with Joaquin Phoenix playing him and the director settling very much for grit over glitz when it comes to the spectacle of his violent tendencies. Admittedly, his misdeeds in these clips don't actually strike me as particularly out of sorts for the Joker one bit, but the context and gravitas is arguably too close for comfort, and no Batman to kinda ease his presence is rough. I guess I always struggled to imagine what the nature of Joker was without Batman as an anchor, and now that I've seen it, I've come to a strikingly upsetting realization.
On one hand, I do like some iterations of the Joker as a bad guy and he's one of the most iconic comic baddies in my eyes because of some of the excellent acted portrayals of him.
But when he's left to a solo film where the early material feels like he's kinda aggrandized, and his perspective and actions are aggrandized with no check-balance from the Bat family, I admit it feels eerily and disturbingly familiar and real, especially with Joaquin Phoenix playing him and the director settling very much for grit over glitz when it comes to the spectacle of his violent tendencies. Admittedly, his misdeeds in these clips don't actually strike me as particularly out of sorts for the Joker one bit, but the context and gravitas is arguably too close for comfort, and no Batman to kinda ease his presence is rough. I guess I always struggled to imagine what the nature of Joker was without Batman as an anchor, and now that I've seen it, I've come to a strikingly upsetting realization.
Wonder if I should trust a few people here who think it's incelbait after seeing 2 clips, or a bunch of positive impressions from people who actually watched it
Hmm, it's a toughie
Personally, I think a Joker movie is kinda cynical without a Batman foil, but I'm gonna watch this anyway because it looks great
Hmm, it's a toughie
Personally, I think a Joker movie is kinda cynical without a Batman foil, but I'm gonna watch this anyway because it looks great
no the movie is blaming society and how they are treating people with mental illness like shit.
Not watching these, the two in the OP were enough. Will wait till opening night to see the rest. I must resist!
Did you not hear him properly? Might have been a bad capture. He was essentially blaming rich people like Robert DeNiro's character, and society at large, for exploiting people they can use and abandoning those they can't. Even in the trailer they made a point to show his therapist wasn't helping him, wasn't even listening to him.
Of course Gotham is more exaggerated than the real world, but it's clear what sort of subjects they're tackling here. It's something a lot of people can relate to, not just incels, but a lot of folks are already writing the movie off because I guess the movie doesn't end with a rich white guy like Bruce Wayne telling Joker that life isn't so bad and we should accept the status quo, not fight it.
I''m worried this movie is going to glorify joker in a way the people who already glorify him would find "empowering". Glad I don't live in America.
Yeah, I'm not comfortable at all after watching those clips. I can easily see joker serving as inspiration for the next mass shooting or two. Seems like terrible timing for this film given the summer we've had, and the fact that it's well acted and produced doesn't change that.
There really is no good timing. Taxi Driver led to someone attempting to assassinate Ronald Reagan.
For me, frankly, it depends on how the movie portrays Joker.
Wait, i thought video games are the reason. I dont know what to think now.
Trump would be proud of some of the comments here. Good job .
Blame a movie on an attack that didnt happen yet.
And when it happens which it will because ..well....america... you will be here and say:
Seeeeee what did i tell you.
Fuck this
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bruh if someone wanted to shoot some people up, then they will fucking shoot some people up, well acting Joaquin Phoenix or not
stop being weird
Didn't Two Face suffer from multiple personality disorder and anger problems when he was just Harvey Dent or is that a BTAS only backstory?
It's wild that people dont talk about James Holmes more in this thread though.
Here we are, 7 years after the incident worrying if a movie about the Joker would motivate another shooting. 7 years to improve gun control, mental health awareness.
Here we are, 7 years after the incident worrying if a movie about the Joker would motivate another shooting. 7 years to improve gun control, mental health awareness.
These scenes make me feel sorry for the character, but also kind of detest him. Especially those last few scenes - you can feel how deranged he has become, how out of touch with reality. He sure does appear kind of too realistic, it's a little bit chilling.
Yea fuck Batman. Silly rich white man trying to get us to accept the status quo Joker is the real hero dudes! Rise up!
Are you unfamiliar with the Batman mythology? Almost his entire rogue's gallery (and even Batman himself) suffer from mental illness.
I'm very familiar, but that doesn't mean that this adaptation is beholden to playing to that angle. Joker literally says in the clip that he's doing it because he's mentally ill and society is mean to him. Joker is also the movie's protagonist. This plays a little too close for comfort to the line that mental illness, and not white supremacy, misogyny, or other ideologies, cause shootings for my tastes. Based on this and reviews I've read I doubt this movie has anything interesting at all to say about what causes people to commit violent crimes, which is a huge missed opportunity. But obviously DC doesn't have the courage to make Joker a racist sexist, because they want to sell merch, so ill-defined mental illness and mean bullies it is. Yawn.
Also, imo Joker's just not interesting without Batman. Never has been.
This doesn't seem like a kind of movie to sell merch. I'd hold off on your opinion until you see the movie.
User Banned (2 weeks): hostility, accumulated infractions
You must be a really depressed individual.All of your posts are always so negative.Just do everyone a favor and stfu already.
Of course it is, it's a DC property. Whether it's specifically based off this movie or not, Joker merch is A Big Thing, and this movie has to carry the brand to some extent. Also you'd have to pay me to watch this.
Wow. That is insane. I can see why it's getting praise. Joaquin da goat. It was shocking, yet evokes very conflicting feelings about Joker. And this is just from a couple of minutes, my god.
Not sure if I can stomach the whole movie though. I'm going to feel like my insides are being turned out.
Not sure if I can stomach the whole movie though. I'm going to feel like my insides are being turned out.
How some aren't getting this is beyond me.
It's complete nonsense.
His fucking face twitches with the descent into laughter after he shot him is goddamn PHENOMENAL. It was the perfect punchline for his "joke" and really adds to the mental instability of his character. This is Oscar-worthy.
You can be the villain and still have a point. Isn't that what makes a good villain, after all?
Does the Joker being evil at all change the fact Batman is a rich white man that uses his wealth and privilege to ignore the rules the rest of us have to play by as he metes out violent justice according to his own warped sense of morality?
As for this movie, I'm going to go out on a limb and assume we're meant to feel sorry for the Joker at first and even sympathise with his message but, as he slips further into madness and causes more death and destruction, we no longer can.
I don't think it's wrong for people to be concerned that a movie focusing on a mentally ill white man turned serial killer who inspires a populist revolution against the elites with his actions might lend legitimacy to a culture of loner white men who feel wronged by society. I think the specificity of it and similarity to the motives behind actual shootings makes it a bit different from when people blame gun violence on DOOM or Mortal Kombat.
Phoenix's acting is on point in those clips though and I'm not gonna try to take away your entertainment.
Phoenix's acting is on point in those clips though and I'm not gonna try to take away your entertainment.
I hate comic book movies and those clips convinced me of watching this as soon as it hits my local theater.
Man, people here are really scared because of one movie.. and at the same time "videogames aren't causing violence".. if you blame one of those types of media, than you blame all of them.. you can't choose that one is responsible and one isn't
Movie looks fantastic BTW and sorry USA, you have a gun problem and a problem with mass shootings - deal with them and stop blaiming everything else that isn't responsible for those things and take a look into your gun laws and legislation
Movie looks fantastic BTW and sorry USA, you have a gun problem and a problem with mass shootings - deal with them and stop blaiming everything else that isn't responsible for those things and take a look into your gun laws and legislation
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^This. This is a movie BASED on mass shooters. And it's giving them a character like them. It's not some action movie or game meant to fulfill an unrealistic power fantasy, it is partially about the power fantasy of being a mass killer which makes this guy feel better about himself.
Does the movie tread into some dangerous territory, yeah. But it's also a movie about our modern times and the people in it, if people see it and identify with the joker as a way to solve their problems, thats on them, not the movie. The movie can't (or shouldn't) be held responsible for someone who misinterprets it.
In this instance, why does it matter that Batman is white? He's a warrior for the poor and downtroden, trying to make Gotham a better place by fighting organized crime and corruption.... which would primarily help black and brown people. As Batman he fights crime, as Bruce Wayne he tries to help the city and the people in it. I've yet to see anytime that Batman or Wayne make any decision based on specific racial, political, or socioeconomical lines. The only problem with Batman's heroics is he is always portrayed helping white people, which isn't a fault of the character as much as it is the storytellers having almost 0 diversity in the people he saves. Hell, the Nolan trilogy has what? One black guy and he plays the role of the wise old man.
If you want to bring race into this, the Joker in this film seems to be a lot more clear cut in that he is more tolerated and deemed non threatening as a white man, than he would be if he were another race behaving the same way.
