Yeah, now the movie that "wouldn't even be attempted right now" is a fucking DC comic book blockbuster.
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Leaked Clips from The Joker [WARNING MAJOR SPOILERS] Up: Second Clip Leaked [SEE STAFF POST]
- Thread starter SweetNicole
- Start date
I hate how talented people are hyped up and then torn down. Everyone loved Nolan then shat on him. Everyone loved Heath, now I'm seeing dismissive posts about his performance. Everyone loves Phoenix, Denis Villeneuve, etc, etc until it will be their turn one day. Come on everyone, don't be like that.
We need to talk about Kevin has a hell of a lot more relevance to the alt-right / incels than this does. Yet you still have this idiotic circus carrying on about it.
I was going to give up on this because you're seemingly flat out ignoring what I'm saying and constantly bringing up the alt-right as though that's the crux of this conversation when I didn't really mention it in regards to this movie outside of my first post where I said they'd adopt another icon if not the Joker.
I just wanted to point out suggesting it doesn't speak to the current political climate doesn't ring true at all. Yes it's set in the 80s, but the movie based at a time in a city on the brink of civil unrest in a period of immense wealth disparity, focuses on the cult of celebrity/memes being adopted as icons, and ultimately a mental ill individual that at least on some level is motivated by being spurned by a woman he's interested in. It's blatant that they relate to modern day issues.
Outside of Kevin becoming a mass murderer, not really.
It's also hard to argue the movie has much relevance to the USA's disproportionate number of mass shootings when Kevin's murder weapon is a bow and arrow.
I haven't seen the Joker with an AR-15 either.
It relates to issues that have existed well before the current climate and will exist well beyond it. Social outcast becomes deranged and violent, this isn't a new concept.
Just because I quote you and mention other points of discussion in response, doesn't mean I'm ignoring what you're saying. I'm simply discussing the topic at hand.
Joaquin Phoenix really does seem to have elevated this film. Some of these lines could be seen as laughable, comparable to how Alan Garner in The Hangover was written ("Go Werewolf", really?) but Joaquin Phoenix deliveries it in a way that feels broken and isolated.
Also this film is totally going to inspire some terrible people. And fucking lol at Resetera of all places falling back on the "Bu bu videogame violence exists!" angle and trying to silence discussion. Is your first rule of media being problematic and worth criticizing is "It has to not interest me"?
Also this film is totally going to inspire some terrible people. And fucking lol at Resetera of all places falling back on the "Bu bu videogame violence exists!" angle and trying to silence discussion. Is your first rule of media being problematic and worth criticizing is "It has to not interest me"?
Welp, found 'em, I think:
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We Need To Talk About Kevin has nothing to do with politics, bullying, guns, or sexuality lmao. It even makes a point not to blame Kevin's behavior on mental health either.
Why the fuck did I read the description for that second scene.
That needs a much, much heavier spoiler warning.
That needs a much, much heavier spoiler warning.
*sigh* This confirms my fears. I have been very suspicious of this film's interpretation of the Joker. They are depicting him as a pathetic, pitiable sap. And that's just not the Joker, to me. And, judging from the above line, it seems like he is, on top of all that, a self-pitying emo.
May be a good film, but what a sorry Joker.
Well they are going for realism here. This isn't a superhero movie. It's inspired by the idea and iconography of the Joker, but that's fundamentally how far it goes.
We've had movies like this one in the past and they're typically very good. I can't speak for Joker because it's obviously not out yet and, I must admit, I'm not as impressed by these clips as a lot of people here seem to be.
Despite that, this is their chance to give us a Joker unlike any we've seen before and maybe that's reason enough for this movie to exist.
So, I watched the clips and this just isn't appealing to me. A sad sack gets treated poorly by society does a few killings and inspires others. That's not the Joker to me, that's just a guy in makeup.
Just watched the first clip, liked it a lot.
I knew they would kinda be inspired by The Dark Knight Returns (the comic book by Miller) for the TV show scene. Glad they did, this is fucking brutal and terrifying.
As for the discussions about "it's not the Joker", I'm definitely not a Joker expert, don't read DC Comics, just have read Miller's and Jeph Loeb's work on Batman, so I can't really tell. I understand that some people might be disappointed that it's not the version of the Joker they want, but honestly, I always think it's better this way. Let them reinterpret it.
Personally, I don't get the point of watching the same thing that I read in my comic books.
Now I can definitely understand if some people simply don't like THIS reinterpretation, but would be down for something else. I just want to say that, imo, reinterpretation is always the way to go for comic book movies.
For instance, Sam Raimi's Spider-Man is sooo different from the comics. He took all the Freudians symbolism from DeMatteis' run, and did this melodramatic tragedy, with a lot of Christian's imagery. That's definitely not what people think of when they think about Spider-Man, and that's why it's so interesting.
Same goes for what Taika Waititi and then the Russo brothers did with Thor, and what James Gunn did with the Guardians.
I'm always in for those weird and unexpected takes on characters.
I knew they would kinda be inspired by The Dark Knight Returns (the comic book by Miller) for the TV show scene. Glad they did, this is fucking brutal and terrifying.
As for the discussions about "it's not the Joker", I'm definitely not a Joker expert, don't read DC Comics, just have read Miller's and Jeph Loeb's work on Batman, so I can't really tell. I understand that some people might be disappointed that it's not the version of the Joker they want, but honestly, I always think it's better this way. Let them reinterpret it.
Personally, I don't get the point of watching the same thing that I read in my comic books.
Now I can definitely understand if some people simply don't like THIS reinterpretation, but would be down for something else. I just want to say that, imo, reinterpretation is always the way to go for comic book movies.
For instance, Sam Raimi's Spider-Man is sooo different from the comics. He took all the Freudians symbolism from DeMatteis' run, and did this melodramatic tragedy, with a lot of Christian's imagery. That's definitely not what people think of when they think about Spider-Man, and that's why it's so interesting.
Same goes for what Taika Waititi and then the Russo brothers did with Thor, and what James Gunn did with the Guardians.
I'm always in for those weird and unexpected takes on characters.
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I love Joaquin Phoenix but these clips are making me think he was kind of an uninspired pick? Like I'm sure he'll be great but it seems like he's just doing The Master.
It is. And I feel like that would've been a better take, and would've fit better into that "one bad day" thing. This current take is lazy. Yeah, the acting will be great because Phoenix is amazing, but they should've done more.
I'm guessing you never read the Killing Joke where the Joker starts out as a pathetic, pitiable sap.
I did, and I had the same reaction there. But it was somewhat redeemed by the fact that he made up his past, so I didn't have to accept that it actually happened.
How do you know that won't be the case here when you haven't even seen the movie?
Do you remember Oswald Cobblepot in Batman returns? He has a very similar backstory to the joker's from the killing joke. Outcast, rejected, disfigured, then he went on to create a ruthless gang of criminals and kill people to stick it to society. The joker and the penguin among other villains in Batman's rouge's gallery have pitiable backstories that they use as justification for their insanity or violence. Like mr freeze. But that's not the point, at no point does any of that justify the murder and mayhem they commit. Nothing could justify the things the joker does. Does that have to be spelled out?
Much more interesting than some petty criminal falling into a vat of magic sauce that disfigures him and turns him into a super villain.
Not gonna lie, I always thought this was the weakest of the Joker's origins, so completely agreed
There are (at least) two aspects to Joker's character that are undermined by making his backstory pathetic:
1) His edge, his menacing presence. He is the king of villains, the baddest of the bad. That's undermined if you're a pathetic wimp.
2) His glamour and suave mystique. I remember, quite vividly, everybody leaning in toward the TV whenever Joker appeared on BTAS or JLU. And that's because, despite him being a bad guy that you want Batman to defeat, he is cool as balls. He has confidence, showmanship, and did I mention confidence? This guy actually is FUN to watch, my brothers, friends, and were all hyped as hell whenever he came on because he showed everyone up, was cool, and was just plain old fun to watch. This is totally undermined if you know that, underneath, is actually a terribly unfunny, pathetic, weasel.
So. This is just not my Joker, and I am of the belief that depictions like this decreases the character's sway and prestige.
1) His edge, his menacing presence. He is the king of villains, the baddest of the bad. That's undermined if you're a pathetic wimp.
2) His glamour and suave mystique. I remember, quite vividly, everybody leaning in toward the TV whenever Joker appeared on BTAS or JLU. And that's because, despite him being a bad guy that you want Batman to defeat, he is cool as balls. He has confidence, showmanship, and did I mention confidence? This guy actually is FUN to watch, my brothers, friends, and were all hyped as hell whenever he came on because he showed everyone up, was cool, and was just plain old fun to watch. This is totally undermined if you know that, underneath, is actually a terribly unfunny, pathetic, weasel.
So. This is just not my Joker, and I am of the belief that depictions like this decreases the character's sway and prestige.
So, for me, my taking umbrage with this depiction is not about me caring if they make him sympathetic (though that is stupid - one of the things about Joker is that he is just pure madness and evil, don't try to rationalize his motivations), but more about making the character just, well, less cool.