It's a pretty clear-cut sentence. You don't need more context to understand it and be able to translate it. I'm pretty confident in the explanation I gave you :).
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Learning Japanese • 日本語の勉強 |これはOTです| ゆっくりしていいぞ！
- Thread starter Resilient
- Start date
It's a pretty clear-cut sentence. You don't need more context to understand it and be able to translate it. I'm pretty confident in the explanation I gave you :).
Hi all!
Quick update. I'm level 8 on WaniKani this week, with around 230 Kanji learned. I'm so happy I found this thread and the WK recommendation, it really works!
Grammar has been slow but steady, I'm using a combination of Human Japanese and Bunpo App (Not bunpro). I use Minna No Nihongo only as a very final review - test, as by itself I have found it very lacking in making me "understand the concepts".
Anyways, I also wanted to share this new Final Fantasy VII trailer in japanese. I was able to understand A LOT of the voice acting and its just glorious. Things like these make me want to keep pushing forward with my studies.
Quick update. I'm level 8 on WaniKani this week, with around 230 Kanji learned. I'm so happy I found this thread and the WK recommendation, it really works!
Grammar has been slow but steady, I'm using a combination of Human Japanese and Bunpo App (Not bunpro). I use Minna No Nihongo only as a very final review - test, as by itself I have found it very lacking in making me "understand the concepts".
Anyways, I also wanted to share this new Final Fantasy VII trailer in japanese. I was able to understand A LOT of the voice acting and its just glorious. Things like these make me want to keep pushing forward with my studies.
Can anybody help me translate this sentence? It's a motto, so I have trouble wording it in English that doesn't sound dumb. It's a motto a Japanese student came up with to describe an internship experience.
私が書いたMottoはオープンな人々とオープンな環境で成長できるというもの
What she means by オープンな人々 is that everyone treated her as part of the team at her internship (thus, they were open-hearted). On the other hand, the オープンな環境 is referring to the fact that the office was quite literally open -- as she got to sit in a different seat every day and talk to different people -- and also that the company has offices all over the world, so you can talk on Skype/email with people from all these other offices.
My awkward-sounds-terrible-in-English translation is "Openhearted people and an open work environment equals a place to grow." I don't know, it sounds kind of dumb. Any suggestions would be appreciated!
私が書いたMottoはオープンな人々とオープンな環境で成長できるというもの
What she means by オープンな人々 is that everyone treated her as part of the team at her internship (thus, they were open-hearted). On the other hand, the オープンな環境 is referring to the fact that the office was quite literally open -- as she got to sit in a different seat every day and talk to different people -- and also that the company has offices all over the world, so you can talk on Skype/email with people from all these other offices.
My awkward-sounds-terrible-in-English translation is "Openhearted people and an open work environment equals a place to grow." I don't know, it sounds kind of dumb. Any suggestions would be appreciated!
Seems to me that her actual motto is the underlined part, so grammatically it could be a bit more simple.
(lit. One can grow in an open environment with open people)
Something like "An open (work) environment and open-hearted people enable us to grow" ?
Or "Working with open-hearted people in an open environment helps us grow" ?
What you have is good, though. I could be over-thinking it :)
What's a common formula to put at the top of an e-mail if I just want to unsubscribe from a site and its mailing list (they don't have an option for that, you have to send them an e-mail).
Would お世話になっております do the job? Or is that too formal/polite still? I'm just looking for the equivalent of "Hello" that would best fit here.
Would お世話になっております do the job? Or is that too formal/polite still? I'm just looking for the equivalent of "Hello" that would best fit here.
Haven't posted here in a while. Sucks to hear about your interview Kilrogg... Good luck for the future, I'm sure some other opportunity will present itself at some point.
The MIA Japanese support add-on for Anki has finally been publically released otherwise:
I highly recommend giving it a try. That new dictionary add-on also seems very convenient, although it's Patreon only in the near future.
The MIA Japanese support add-on for Anki has finally been publically released otherwise:
I highly recommend giving it a try. That new dictionary add-on also seems very convenient, although it's Patreon only in the near future.
Thank you for the support, man!
Yeah, the MIA add-on, and especially the soon-to-be-public dictionary add-on look awesome. I have yet to give them a try, but the dictionary one is basically GoldenDict and Qolibri on steroids, with a more user-friendly interface to boot. Awesome stuff. Should make the flashcard-making process so much easier and faster.
新明解 (Shinmeikai) is pretty good. Generally decent definitions, plus it's got pitch accent. 大辞林 (Daijirin) is another good one (also with pitch accent).
Don't know about Daijirin, but Shinmeikai is available on Android. Both can be found for computers too if you know where to look for - they're kind of in a gray area legally because they've long since been discontinued as commercial products.
Sorry if this has been discussed in this thread elsewhere, but why do people recommend Remembering the Kanji? In looking through the book online, it doesn't seem to teach you readings of any sort? How does that help??
OP
OP
It doesn't help. It had a resurgence recently but has since been abandoned after it got dissed heavily.
It teaches you methods to remember the meaning of Kanji in isolation, which is helpful if that's all you want to learn. But it doesn't teach you readings.
nicoga3000 having spent a lot of time on the RTK method, I'll temper Resilient's opinion slightly. It can be useful, but keep a few things in mind:
1. You don't want to start learning kanji with RTK. At first, it's more important to develop your recognition/reading skills, which RTK doesn't do (well, RTK 2 does, but out-of-context learning is a pain and doesn't really work that well for kanji if you ask me)
2. If you want to do RTK, do it once you're familiar enough with many kanji. Then, you go back to it, and add your own keyword mnemonics, ideally with Japanese words (instead of the English keywords RTK provides). RTK is a good method if you want to create mnemonics to help you write them initially.
3. That said, if you're not a very creative person, i.e. if you're bad at imagining stories and creating a strong mental picture for them - which is my case -, I wouldn't necessarily recommend you stick to RTK hardcore, especially for the rarer kanji. In that case, just try and devote some time to writing kanji, though I'm not sure what's better between just drilling them or copying actual sentences from real media.
4. Whatever method you choose, there is no magic trick to learning to write kanji with ease: you need to read a lot and write a lot. If you're like me, and you can read most kanji but almost never write (and/or you have bad handwriting and generally don't like to write by hand), you'll always struggle with writing kanji. To this day, it still isn't second nature for me. I just suck at it, because I barely ever write anything in Japanese.
1. You don't want to start learning kanji with RTK. At first, it's more important to develop your recognition/reading skills, which RTK doesn't do (well, RTK 2 does, but out-of-context learning is a pain and doesn't really work that well for kanji if you ask me)
2. If you want to do RTK, do it once you're familiar enough with many kanji. Then, you go back to it, and add your own keyword mnemonics, ideally with Japanese words (instead of the English keywords RTK provides). RTK is a good method if you want to create mnemonics to help you write them initially.
3. That said, if you're not a very creative person, i.e. if you're bad at imagining stories and creating a strong mental picture for them - which is my case -, I wouldn't necessarily recommend you stick to RTK hardcore, especially for the rarer kanji. In that case, just try and devote some time to writing kanji, though I'm not sure what's better between just drilling them or copying actual sentences from real media.
4. Whatever method you choose, there is no magic trick to learning to write kanji with ease: you need to read a lot and write a lot. If you're like me, and you can read most kanji but almost never write (and/or you have bad handwriting and generally don't like to write by hand), you'll always struggle with writing kanji. To this day, it still isn't second nature for me. I just suck at it, because I barely ever write anything in Japanese.
FINE, SUE ME!
[EDIT] On a more serious note, it's better to use at least a couple dictionaries. Dictionary X will sometimes have a better/easier definition than Dictionary Y and vice versa. Personally, I use Shinmeikai, Super Daijirin, Daijisen, Koujien, the NHK pitch accent dictionary, plus I'll check out sites like Weblio and Chiebukuro (which is basically Japan's Yahoo Answers). Oh and Wikipedia of course. When I need a good English equivalent, ALC.co.jp and Linguee are my go-to references.
That's where dictionary aggregators like Qolibri, GoldenDict or MattvsJapan's new MIA dictionary add-on for Anki come in. If you can take the time to set everything up, they're invaluable tools.
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Having used Kotobank a fair bit, it essentially contains definitions from some of the dictionaries I mentioned (I forget which one(s)), so, yeah, it's an alternative if you don't have any dictionaries installed on your device.
I'm kind of answering a question that you didn't ask, but just in case.
- I think it's a good idea to start by learning the radicals. You don't really need to worry about the sounds at this point so much as what they mean. It will help you to mentally deconstruct an unfamiliar character, as well as to look up ones you don't know.
- Frame it as a vocab study instead. A kanji will tend to have two sounds, one where it's the only kanji in the word and maybe followed with some kana, and one where there are two or more kanji together in the word. So if you learn the words 走る and 走行 then you've got that one kanji down.
I'll leave someone else to discuss actual methods to go about this.
I recommend wanikani. It's basically RTK, but with readings, vocabulary, and examples included that's all presented in a spaced repetition system to help you remember.
I learned around 2000 kanji in a little over a year using it after rote memorization in college and the Heisig method didn't work well for me. Using that, supplemented with some grammar books, and reading actual japanese content on your own is a good way to learn.
It does some good things like guiding you through the steps of kanji with radicals through mnemonics. Although the hard part is making your own learn/review schedule. Also because you'll just learn the meanings of kanji and how to break them down, it can be demotivating if that's all you do though.
I think it does build well on itself in how it progresses. I've shelved it for a long time, but was curious so I took a better look.
Yet there's better ways down this route. Wanikani is a bit less rigorous, but uses a similar approach. With mnemonics as well, where they use the radicals -> kanji -> vocab loop. And you'll learn both the meaning and reading of kanji at the same time. The spaced repetition system also keeps you going, you don't have to go out of your way. Just make it part of your routine to do the program.
I think it does build well on itself in how it progresses. I've shelved it for a long time, but was curious so I took a better look.
Yet there's better ways down this route. Wanikani is a bit less rigorous, but uses a similar approach. With mnemonics as well, where they use the radicals -> kanji -> vocab loop. And you'll learn both the meaning and reading of kanji at the same time. The spaced repetition system also keeps you going, you don't have to go out of your way. Just make it part of your routine to do the program.
OP
OP
So it basically sucks and there are better options out there?
Dunno why RTK still gets entertained as an entry point when almost all impressions/opinions of it boil down to, it does this little thing good but mostly everything else poorly.
Don't dwell on it any longer than you have and try something like WaniKani or all those new Anki decks out there.
Dunno why RTK still gets entertained as an entry point when almost all impressions/opinions of it boil down to, it does this little thing good but mostly everything else poorly.
Don't dwell on it any longer than you have and try something like WaniKani or all those new Anki decks out there.
When it released, there was nothing else, but since the age of the internet more alternatives popped off.
Stroke order is still an important aspect of kanji, but not a priority for first learners. It is supplement material, although many websites show stroke order as well, so it's really optional.
Anki offers a lot of choice and freedom, but you do need to know which decks are good for you.
Wanikani is good, but it is paid after level 3. Subscriptions do go on sale near the end of the year. I would definitely recommend people to try it out and see if it's something they can jell with. There's also a helpful community attached to it, so for beginners and other learners it probably will be useful.
In my mind, it's good for people who are a bit creative and visual and/or struggle to learn how to write kanji the traditional way. It can reduce the amount of drilling needed.
But it should come later in the process. As an entry point, it asks too much from the user with little results at first - assuming they're a beginner. In hindsight, it was easy for people like me to recommend it anyway: I already had a good knowledge of kanji readings and meanings before I started RTK, and had already learned how to write most of the jouyou years ago. Most of it wasn't entirely new to me - which is why RTK 3 was much harder for me, as it's all non-jouyou. But if I'd had to use RTK from the get-go with little prior knowledge of the language, I would probably have dropped it quickly. Having to come up with mnemonics/stories is a huge pain in the neck for me. It just takes me so much time and energy, and I can't retain my own stories all that well. I'm much more technical-minded. But it might be more appealing and effective to creative types, and at any rate, it's still much easier to do if you already know the readings and meanings.
tl;dr: if you're gonna do RTK, do it after you already know quite a bit about readings and meanings. Don't do this as a complete beginner unless you enjoy the process of coming up with stories and you hate drilling.
But it should come later in the process. As an entry point, it asks too much from the user with little results at first - assuming they're a beginner. In hindsight, it was easy for people like me to recommend it anyway: I already had a good knowledge of kanji readings and meanings before I started RTK, and had already learned how to write most of the jouyou years ago. Most of it wasn't entirely new to me - which is why RTK 3 was much harder for me, as it's all non-jouyou. But if I'd had to use RTK from the get-go with little prior knowledge of the language, I would probably have dropped it quickly. Having to come up with mnemonics/stories is a huge pain in the neck for me. It just takes me so much time and energy, and I can't retain my own stories all that well. I'm much more technical-minded. But it might be more appealing and effective to creative types, and at any rate, it's still much easier to do if you already know the readings and meanings.
tl;dr: if you're gonna do RTK, do it after you already know quite a bit about readings and meanings. Don't do this as a complete beginner unless you enjoy the process of coming up with stories and you hate drilling.
It has its use in the space, like wanikani uses a similar approach as rtk although with a srs like anki integrated.
But yeah, it sounds hard to get anything off the ground with just RTK. So it's better to go with alternatives.
Anyway I should go about doing my reviews as part of my daily routine.
But yeah, it sounds hard to get anything off the ground with just RTK. So it's better to go with alternatives.
Anyway I should go about doing my reviews as part of my daily routine.
i'd be interested to see if my approach works for people who aren't me but I think my ideal start would still begin from a place of JPN 101 (hirigana/katakana then basically at least get through Genki 1 or equivalent before you start branching out). Ideally with a tutor.
Honestly I think RTK could work for a beginner, as long as you use something else with it. Like say, grammar/vocab cards. That way you learn the kanji on their own via RTK first and then you gradually learn the vocab and readings.
Of course, that's sort of what WK does, but with RTK and Anki one would have more freedom (which may not even be a good thing for someone starting out, considering how many options are availalable).
Of course, that's sort of what WK does, but with RTK and Anki one would have more freedom (which may not even be a good thing for someone starting out, considering how many options are availalable).
Yeah, I think RTK embedded with something that's teaching you, you know, context and meaning and so on could be useful. A lot of JPN101 courses just kind of throw you at the kanji and just yell LEARN IT, so RTK's systematic way of going about learning how to draw characters is handy in some respects.
So if I want to start learning Kanji, will WaniKani actually help me learn meanings AND readings? Or it is just going to teach me how to recognize what radicals combine to make a certain concept?
It will get you along with both readings and meanings. They don't intend to cover all of them, but enough to get by well.
Wanikani starts off with radicals on every level (there's 60 of them). When you have a good handle on those, you unlock kanji. You'll be tested on both meanings and readings. To keep it simple they usually ask one or two readings for kanji reviews. When you have a good handle on those kanji, you unlock some vocabulary. These are nouns, verbs, adjectives, compound words, etc. It is enough to enforce you to see kanji in a different context, but be aware you'll need to amass a lot more vocabulary on your own, it's all about getting used to kanji. When you know 90% of the kanji on the current level, you level up. Unlock new radicals, kanji and vocab (because not all of it builds off on the current level items). So you start over the process again and again. At the beginning getting used to getting readings right in kanji/vocab can be tricky, but you get used to it later on. You'll keep seeing some kanji again and again, so they'll be less scary over time.
Now kanji readings come in different types: kun'yomi (Japanese reading) and on'yomi (Chinese reading). Wanikani starts by picking one over the other and will teach you the other readings through vocabulary.
There's always exceptions of course. 今日 meaning today is read as きょう, which doesn't come from any of the combinations of the readings you will learn from both 今 and 日.
The first three levels are free, so you could see for yourself if it's a good fit for you. The prerequisite is that you do know hiragana and katakana.
You can start right away. Genki has reading and writing lessons at the back of the book which you can take in lockstep with the regular chapters. I would recommend you make flashcards for them (with paper or an app like Anki) and make it a routine to review them daily.
I think RTK / WaniKani / KKLC can be very helpful. They provide a good sequencing that helps building a basic map of Kanji shapes. I first went to Japanese lessons for 2 years, and it was a nightmare to memorise e.g. 結婚, whereas when you see them in the order chosen by these, you only need to put together shapes you are familiar with, either with their mnemonic or one that works for you.
I'm not a fan of the rigidity of WaniKani though, as it can be tough to learn so much vocab and readings without context. On the other hand, RTK doesn't give you a hint on what these kanjis are used for really which must be tough at the start... Because of that I went with KKLC myself, which was ideal as it gave me sample vocab words for each kanji which were much more useful for putting things in context. It however does not tell you clearly how frequent these kanjis are, and in many cases their words are actually spelled in hiragana, so during the time I have been Ankiing I have moved from a more strict approach to something closer to the "lazy kanji" rigor.
I would look at what MIA or Nukemarine propose at the moment if I were to start now. I think they've distilled these methods down to a very usable approach (but it's sadly a bit late for me to try)
I'm not a fan of the rigidity of WaniKani though, as it can be tough to learn so much vocab and readings without context. On the other hand, RTK doesn't give you a hint on what these kanjis are used for really which must be tough at the start... Because of that I went with KKLC myself, which was ideal as it gave me sample vocab words for each kanji which were much more useful for putting things in context. It however does not tell you clearly how frequent these kanjis are, and in many cases their words are actually spelled in hiragana, so during the time I have been Ankiing I have moved from a more strict approach to something closer to the "lazy kanji" rigor.
I would look at what MIA or Nukemarine propose at the moment if I were to start now. I think they've distilled these methods down to a very usable approach (but it's sadly a bit late for me to try)
to be honest, the way i memorise kanji has become a lot less reliant on the radicals and a lot more reliant on seeing them in context and on the overall 'shape' of the kanji character if that makes any sense. but i don't write them ever (except using keyboards etc) so that may have some influence.
Might be a good time to start introducing to the mix.
The phonetic semantic composition definitely helps guessing the reading after a while. And context wise I'm still reliant on compounds.
Woah, just found this thread, glad to find a resource like this! I'm just interested in reading for now, although it could expand in the future I figure it's more fun to just start with stuff I can easily apply myself to(grabbing some books/mangas, or heck using my sega Saturn imports and Gundam kit manuals.) so starting with the first section I figure. Also any tips for any good book references I could grab? Just stuff I could find at say Barnes and nobles
Oh as for why, well I have time to kill, a ridiculous recall and I could grow the skill into more but for now it's handy for reading manga and my Sega Saturn imports and maybe trying out super robot wars with the anime music(which is the best part)
Oh as for why, well I have time to kill, a ridiculous recall and I could grow the skill into more but for now it's handy for reading manga and my Sega Saturn imports and maybe trying out super robot wars with the anime music(which is the best part)
almost always your best bet is to tag 意味 or 英語 to the end, plug it into google, and find someone on a messageboard asking the exact same question
/edit having said that i have no idea what that means *complicated shrug*
Thanks for the tip! In general, when that happens, it means that I messed up with some kanji. Though this time I think that it's right.
OP
OP
"When it released, there was nothing else, but since the age of the internet more alternatives popped off."
Again, in 2019, it offers nothing of significant value that you can't get anywhere else for less of the time.
Doing RTK "properly" takes a long time (a year?) and at the end of it you walk away with stroke order, and a lot of mnemonics that ultimately clutter your brain.
No readings, no meanings, very little vocab.
You could get more out of that year picking up the myriad of options that are out there today.
I think studying kanji by separating them into parts and memorizing a story, pioneered by books such as RTK, is appealing to a certain type of learners. If I started out studying kanji today, I would probably use wanikani instead of RTK, or Kodansha Kanji Learner's Course if I was on a budget (it uses mnemonics like RTK but also has some sample vocabulary). RTK can be entertaining (its like solving puzzles) and probably helps in more rigorous practice later, but I think it would be beneficial to learn some actual vocabulary from the beginning.