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Learning Japanese • 日本語の勉強 |これはOTです| ゆっくりしていいぞ!

OP
OP
Resilient

Resilient

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,356
neogaf時代に綺麗な日本語の文章を書く三島由紀夫好きのフランスの文学青年がいたよ。Kilroggのサブアカかな?
その時は思い出しているけどあのアカウントを忘れちゃった!!超綺麗な文章。
expertはとても驚いたことを覚えて。

しかしexpertと言えば、GAFのユーザーは日本語の能力があったことを全然信じられなかった・・・
 
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febLey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,199
Germany
Anyone here reading manga on a Kindle Paperwhite (3 or 4)?
I‘m considering to get on on Blackfriday/Cybermonday, but I’d imagine that the fonts, especially furigana, can be pretty small on a 6 inch screen.


Besides that, what Settings are you using for your Anki decks?
I've looked up a few guides and haven't found a definitive answer.
These are the current settings I've come up with:

New cards
Steps: 1 240 1440 2880 10080 20160
Steps: 1 60 180 1440 2880 10080
Graduating interval: 30
Graduating interval: 14
Easy interval: 7
Easy interval: 1day
Starting ease: 250%

Reviews
Max Reviews: 9999
Easy bonus: 150%
Interval modifier: 100%
Max interval: 730

Lapses
Steps: 1 10080 20160
New Interval: 75%
Min. Interval: 1 Day
Min. Interval: 2 Days
Leech Threshold: 8 lapses
Leech action: Tag only

EDIT: Already noticed that 4 hours after the first good is too long, so I'm going to try 1 and 3 hours.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
287
Japan
Quite a few people here (myself included) read on a Kindle. They're fantastic. The font size is fully adjustable if that's a concern, but I've never worried about furigana being too small in novels and such. Manga, on the other hand, can be rough because the image is scanned at a set resolution so small furigana can actually end up blurry and difficult to make out.

Another key feature of the Kindle is that you can touch and hold a word to immediately look it up, which will empower you to leave furigana-heavy materials behind more quickly and easily than you might if you were reading a paperback.
 

Jintor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,006
最近で私の日本語能力が残念になった。。。実は、私のせいだけど (新しい本とか記事とか読めないから)。。。絶望した =____=

とても忙しいけど、言い訳じゃないと思う。
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,698
それとかのためにたくさんのニュースアプリ利用します。日本語の勉強を怠ければ(実はいつもんです)プッシュ通知を読みます。
 

penguindrum

Member
Feb 10, 2019
162
I wanna get back into studying Japanese. I stopped studying about four years ago while I was getting through an awful living situation and it screwed up my entire schedule and I never got back to seriously studying. I was only at a beginning level. I'd probably been studying from an anki deck for 5 months or so at that point. Which comes to the problem I faced then and still face now. I was studying vocab and kanji but I wasn't studying grammar. I have a load of grammar books and resources but could never bring myself to get through them. Even Tae Kim's guide! All of it sends me to sleep and I never remember what I read so I end up rereading it over and over. I have no idea why I'm this way! I still know kana and can recognize a decent amount of the vocabulary I learned, but put things together in a sentence and I'm lost as to what the meaning is.

Anyway, I'm just ranting and not asking for a magic solution, since I know there isn't one. I also feel like maybe I have access to too many grammar resources which also causes me to freeze and not be consistent in learning from and finishing a single one. I have probably tried to read Tae Kim's grammar guide upwards of 10 times... I never got too far though before switching to Genki, or Minna no Nihongo, or Japanese the Manga Way, or staring at A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar. Then I get frustrated with all of it and say to myself, "I definitely know enough by now to just get through a basic manga/kids game with furigana and a dictionary!" Well, quickly finding out that no I don't! Because grammar plays a large part in verbal communication. Who would have thought!!!!!

I think I'm gonna go back to Japanese in Mangaland series, the first volume of which I allegedly (I don't remember anything) read years ago and seems just weeb-y enough to keep my attention.

It pains me to think of where my Japanese literacy could be if I had stayed on track.
 
OP
OP
Resilient

Resilient

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,356
I wanna get back into studying Japanese. I stopped studying about four years ago while I was getting through an awful living situation and it screwed up my entire schedule and I never got back to seriously studying. I was only at a beginning level. I'd probably been studying from an anki deck for 5 months or so at that point. Which comes to the problem I faced then and still face now. I was studying vocab and kanji but I wasn't studying grammar. I have a load of grammar books and resources but could never bring myself to get through them. Even Tae Kim's guide! All of it sends me to sleep and I never remember what I read so I end up rereading it over and over. I have no idea why I'm this way! I still know kana and can recognize a decent amount of the vocabulary I learned, but put things together in a sentence and I'm lost as to what the meaning is.

Anyway, I'm just ranting and not asking for a magic solution, since I know there isn't one. I also feel like maybe I have access to too many grammar resources which also causes me to freeze and not be consistent in learning from and finishing a single one. I have probably tried to read Tae Kim's grammar guide upwards of 10 times... I never got too far though before switching to Genki, or Minna no Nihongo, or Japanese the Manga Way, or staring at A Dictionary of Basic Japanese Grammar. Then I get frustrated with all of it and say to myself, "I definitely know enough by now to just get through a basic manga/kids game with furigana and a dictionary!" Well, quickly finding out that no I don't! Because grammar plays a large part in verbal communication. Who would have thought!!!!!

I think I'm gonna go back to Japanese in Mangaland series, the first volume of which I allegedly (I don't remember anything) read years ago and seems just weeb-y enough to keep my attention.

It pains me to think of where my Japanese literacy could be if I had stayed on track.
Your Japanese will be better in 4 months if you use Genki, Minna or Tae Kim instead of Japanese the Manga Way.

You kinda just need to sit down and study hard in order to solidify your understanding of grammar.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,698
penguindrum

The nice thing about grammar is that - at least with the basic stuff - it's literally fucking everywhere so everything you learn gives you Massive Language Power.

I didn't play around a whole lot with learning resources so I doubt I have the best idea of what's great about each one, but I personally started with Human Japanese. Its whole philosophy is to explain things in more approachable language with as little jargon as they can get away with so you might find it better suited for you. There are also free demo apps for Human Japanese so it doesn't cost you anything to dip your toes in.

When you're comfortable with that I still think it's worth going through Tae Kim, though, as that's waaaaay more comprehensive.
 

penguindrum

Member
Feb 10, 2019
162
You kinda just need to sit down and study hard in order to solidify your understanding of grammar.
I know you're right. I think a huge issue is that I really don't even know how to study things that aren't based in calculations. I'm gonna try again with Tae Kim, though I still don't know how to approach it. Many people I know just tell me to read the whole grammar guide then go straight into reading Yotsuba or something easy that I'm interested in. Other than the practice sections, what should I be doing in-between grammar lessons? Or is it enough to just read the whole guide and then use it as a reference as I try to parse actual Japanese material? I'm probably overthinking it. Thanks anyway!

There are also free demo apps for Human Japanese so it doesn't cost you anything to dip your toes in.
Thanks I didn't know there were demo apps, I'll totally try that out!
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,698
I know you're right. I think a huge issue is that I really don't even know how to study things that aren't based in calculations. I'm gonna try again with Tae Kim, though I still don't know how to approach it. Many people I know just tell me to read the whole grammar guide then go straight into reading Yotsuba or something easy that I'm interested in. Other than the practice sections, what should I be doing in-between grammar lessons? Or is it enough to just read the whole guide and then use it as a reference as I try to parse actual Japanese material? I'm probably overthinking it. Thanks anyway!



Thanks I didn't know there were demo apps, I'll totally try that out!
One of the reasons I liked Human Japanese is that it has a bunch of test/review questions, so I'd use a random number generator and give myself a bunch things to review.

And yeah, you're ultimately going to have to read a lot at some point. You can't expect to be comfortable with the grammar from just having it explained to you; when you see it in the wild a dozen times you'll get used to it.
 

Hypron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,657
NZ
Ugh I’m going to Japan in two weeks which I should be looking forward to but I just moved to another town away from everyone I know to start an internship and I’m too depressed to look forward to anything. Fucked up big time coming here...
 

Jintor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,006
What's the proper nuance for 民間試験? Jisho says anything from civil to unofficial but the vibe I'm getting is 'commercial test' or 'private' or something. Or is it more like a mock test? Or is it on English civics? I'm lost.

/edit I think it's a 'corporate english' test for entrants looking to use workplace english basically?

Context: https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20191104/k10012163831000.html

/edit or is it just the specific name for adding this comprehension element to the existing test?
 
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Kurita

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,003
What's the proper nuance for 民間試験? Jisho says anything from civil to unofficial but the vibe I'm getting is 'commercial test' or 'private' or something. Or is it more like a mock test? Or is it on English civics? I'm lost.

/edit I think it's a 'corporate english' test for entrants looking to use workplace english basically?

Context: https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20191104/k10012163831000.html

/edit or is it just the specific name for adding this comprehension element to the existing test?
民間 means private in this context.
What they call 英語の民間試験 is part of the university entrance exams reform. Depending on the university students want to get in, they may be required to take English language tests like TOEIC, GTEC... which are tests (試験) made by private (民間) companies. The reasoning behind this is that it’s easier to assess student’s abilities this way (especially when it comes to speaking).
 
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OP
OP
Resilient

Resilient

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,356
Hey peeps. I don’t post often anymore anyway, but I don’t want to ghost completely. I’m gonna peace out for a little while. Thanks to everybody over the years for the input and the discussion. It’s all shaped my studies in some capacity. And it’s been fun too. I hope you all reach whatever goal you’re aiming for.
 

Nakho

Member
Nov 1, 2017
58
Hey peeps. I don’t post often anymore anyway, but I don’t want to ghost completely. I’m gonna peace out for a little while. Thanks to everybody over the years for the input and the discussion. It’s all shaped my studies in some capacity. And it’s been fun too. I hope you all reach whatever goal you’re aiming for.
Thank you for the contributions you've made, senpai!

Going for AJATT/MIA?
 

Kurita

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,003
Recently did my first professional translation gig : a manga (one-shot) for the French publishing company Casterman. Tentative release date is july 2020. No official announcement yet so I can’t say the name, but I really enjoyed working on this.
Hopefully the first of many!
 

RpgN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
521
The Netherlands
Hey peeps. I don’t post often anymore anyway, but I don’t want to ghost completely. I’m gonna peace out for a little while. Thanks to everybody over the years for the input and the discussion. It’s all shaped my studies in some capacity. And it’s been fun too. I hope you all reach whatever goal you’re aiming for.
Hey...hopefully we’ll hear from you eventually. Take all the time you need.
 

Jintor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,006
Hey peeps. I don’t post often anymore anyway, but I don’t want to ghost completely. I’m gonna peace out for a little while. Thanks to everybody over the years for the input and the discussion. It’s all shaped my studies in some capacity. And it’s been fun too. I hope you all reach whatever goal you’re aiming for.
later senpai. loved talkin with ya here and abroad. come back when you can, we'll miss ya
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,698
Hey peeps. I don’t post often anymore anyway, but I don’t want to ghost completely. I’m gonna peace out for a little while. Thanks to everybody over the years for the input and the discussion. It’s all shaped my studies in some capacity. And it’s been fun too. I hope you all reach whatever goal you’re aiming for.
See ya buddy.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,698
Recently did my first professional translation gig : a manga (one-shot) for the French publishing company Casterman. Tentative release date is july 2020. No official announcement yet so I can’t say the name, but I really enjoyed working on this.
Hopefully the first of many!
Congratulations!
 
Apr 24, 2018
1,184
Thinking about going to Japan for the first time next year for the Olympics. Maybe I'll go if I can get into B-School...forgot all the Japanese I learned in college at this point, though (2 years).

Ugh I’m going to Japan in two weeks which I should be looking forward to but I just moved to another town away from everyone I know to start an internship and I’m too depressed to look forward to anything. Fucked up big time coming here...
Are you still in school? In the long run, an internship can go a long ways towards getting a first job and you'll be all the better for it in the long run. I screwed up big time by working retail instead of interning while I was in college, and I (literally) paid the price dearly for it by getting paid peanuts for my first few years out of school.
 

Kilrogg

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,847
it's okay people Resilient will come back eventually I forced him to

[EDIT] Kurita : holy crap didn't notice. Félicitations :)

[EDIT2] Still, good bye Res. Looking forward to your return, buddy :).
 
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Jintor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,006
民間 means private in this context.
What they call 英語の民間試験 is part of the university entrance exams reform. Depending on the university students want to get in, they may be required to take English language tests like TOEIC, GTEC... which are tests (試験) made by private (民間) companies. The reasoning behind this is that it’s easier to assess student’s abilities this way (especially when it comes to speaking).
thank you by the way, i was grasping at the edges of this but needed confirmation
 

RpgN

Member
Oct 25, 2017
521
The Netherlands
Thanks! Not the easiest line of work to get into so I’m glad to have this line on my resume.
I somehow missed your reply. Congrats Kurita. It doesn’t surprise me considering how good you are.

Was it freelance translation or did you work at the company? Any impressions or tips you can give about this line of work (translation) would be deeply appreciated. I myself have always been interested but have no idea what to expect and whether it can be stressful etc.
 

Kurita

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,003
I somehow missed your reply. Congrats Kurita. It doesn’t surprise me considering how good you are.

Was it freelance translation or did you work at the company? Any impressions or tips you can give about this line of work (translation) would be deeply appreciated. I myself have always been interested but have no idea what to expect and whether it can be stressful etc.
I did an internship at Casterman (mostly known for franco-belgian comics like Tintin, but they have a pretty sweet manga catalog too) during 6 months as an assistant (had to do an internship somewhere to get credits for my master’s degree).

It went really well and that’s what led me to the translation gig.
During my stay over there, they acquired the publishing rights for a manga I thought was super neat, and I casually said something like « Man, I’d love to translate this », so my boss said « Alright, why not? »
That’s pretty much it haha. As for my status I’m freelance, not an employee.

Honestly doubt I would have got it without the internship since I have no translation experience.
I’d like to focus on manga translation if possible, but I know that in recent years anime simulcasts have been a good way to get into this world.

As for impression/tips about translation itself... (specifically talking about manga/anime/games and related products here)
While having a good grasp of Japanese language is important, it doesn’t mean much if your translation isn’t fun to read.
You’re pretty much forced to rewrite most of the dialogue and all, because doing a 100% faithful translation (which isn’t even feasible, but you get my point) just leads to a flat end result.
I’m stating the obvious but a ton of people think that having your dictionary next to you is all you need to get the job done (Lord knows how many of my classmates thought this way, and I was just shaking my head).
I think I used it like 3 times just to check a couple of words I didn’t know, but most of the time my thought process was « Alright, what’s the spirit/message/tone the author is going for here, and what’s the most natural/interesting way to say this in French? », reading out loud the scenes etc..
There’s a huge difference between fully understanding what you’re reading in Japanese, and being able to successfully translate/adapt all of it.

Obviously I’m a newbie when it comes to translation, and all I just wrote is pretty much what I gathered during my translation classes I had in college and this job. People with more experience would have way more interesting things to say lol
 
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Reversed

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,667
Just found that the duolingo en-jp course has been a little revamped, and got my trophy removed in the process. Gonna take it back to regain that "sense of accomplishment"; whatever that means.

I tried finishing the checkpoints, but failed to approve every single one at 3/4 of the way, so there are things that I need to brush up on.

(offtopic, but i'm also taking the chinese course in there, so it'll take more time :) )
 

Kolya

Member
Jan 26, 2018
384
So I'm thinking I want to get some low level JP manga to practice reading/understanding.

I'm still very early so I don't expect to finish/understand what I get at first, but how would I go about getting hold of some JP manga relatively easily? In the UK.

Looking for any and all recommendations! Would prefer physical manga but ebook can work too.
 

sackboy97

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,576
Italy
I just got a message on Anki that soon 2.0 won't be able to sync with AnkiWeb; does anyone know if updating to 2.1 will completely ruin all the add-ons I have installed and set up or if it should carry over painlessly?
 

Jintor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,006

thinkin of taking this one on. a sentence isn't too hard. might hiinative it just to put it in front of native speakers and get owned as well
 

Kurita

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,003
So I'm thinking I want to get some low level JP manga to practice reading/understanding.

I'm still very early so I don't expect to finish/understand what I get at first, but how would I go about getting hold of some JP manga relatively easily? In the UK.

Looking for any and all recommendations! Would prefer physical manga but ebook can work too.
I buy my Japanese digital mangas on booklive.
Stuff for children like Doraemon could be a good start.
 

splash wave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
613
Bay Area, CA
I remember there being a fantastic flash card app for iOS that already had a ton of chapter-specific Genki vocab uploaded by users? Any idea what I’m talking about?
 

Reversed

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,667
It could have been memrise

Edit: so according to the internet, the brand new SwSh offers the option to switch to Japanese, regardless of what version you're playing. 🤔
 
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Jintor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,006
It could have been memrise

Edit: so according to the internet, the brand new SwSh offers the option to switch to Japanese, regardless of what version you're playing. 🤔
i think that's been true for yonks. the problem is you can't switch on the fly - you have to start with jpn and stay that way

not an issue if that's your goal ofc
 

iCham

Member
Oct 27, 2017
990
Hi Era,

Is there a list of words commonly written in kana alone so I can study them or should I just take it easy and it'll come to me naturally eventually ?
I'm talking about words/kanji such as :
うつ
綺麗 きれい
為る する
 

Aizō

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,472
ほぼ真ん中の方
I buy my Japanese digital mangas on booklive.
Stuff for children like Doraemon could be a good start.
I keep importing... I should stop. Is the image quality on booklive good? I tried to switch to digital through kindle, but quality was often like... 1990s scan quality. It was so bad for some series, while others looked great. Also, I wish ハルタ had a digital version. That's the main reason I still import anything. Ugh...
 

Kurita

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,003
I keep importing... I should stop. Is the image quality on booklive good? I tried to switch to digital through kindle, but quality was often like... 1990s scan quality. It was so bad for some series, while others looked great. Also, I wish ハルタ had a digital version. That's the main reason I still import anything. Ugh...
I dunno if the store really matters when it comes to digital manga and image quality (I assume the publishers give the same files to everyone? No idea tbh)

In my experience yeah it varies from manga to manga. I use a 2019 iPad Air, and reading in landscape mode is pretty much mandatory to get the ideal quality since it’s roughly the same size as a regular tankoubon. Single page/Portrait mode can be a bit messy.

Booklive is cool because you get a random coupon every day (like 20% off on all the shonen/seinen catalog etc...)
 

Aizō

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,472
ほぼ真ん中の方
I dunno if the store really matters when it comes to digital manga and image quality (I assume the publishers give the same files to everyone? No idea tbh)

In my experience yeah it varies from manga to manga. I use a 2019 iPad Air, and reading in landscape mode is pretty much mandatory to get the ideal quality since it’s roughly the same size as a regular tankoubon. Single page/Portrait mode can be a bit messy.

Booklive is cool because you get a random coupon every day (like 20% off on all the shonen/seinen catalog etc...)
Maybe it's finally time to just make the switch... what also sucks is that some series I wanna read just aren't available digitally. I buy western comics digitally, and everything is pretty much covered. It's easy. Manga hasn't quite accepted it completely yet.
 

Hypron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,657
NZ
Yesterday, my second day in Japan, my back started hurting for no apparent reason and today it's nigh unbearable :/ just my luck.
I'm on the train to 益子町 at the moment and I think I'll go see a doctor when I get there. It's a small town so it's possible the doctor won't speak English so I guess it'll make for some Japanese practice haha

Otherwise I bought this week's WSJ and damn the paper quality is trash haha. Digital version on iPad all the way.
 

Jintor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,006
me: i should totally buy yuru camp in japanese to practice
brain: あんたバカ?実は、他の買った日本語の漫画を読まなかったけどさ、新漫画を買いたい?
me: yeah, that's a good decision. i should do that.
 

Valkerion

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,145
thinkin of taking this one on. a sentence isn't too hard. might hiinative it just to put it in front of native speakers and get owned as well
Friend of mine did this with Chinese. He started by writing about 2-5 sentences a day, just about things that happened or he saw. Eventually was writing paragraphs every few days along with standard studying. Seemed to work out extremely well for him. Been thinking about starting this as well.

But going to take the JLPT for the first time and im pretty nervous. I've always been pretty bad at tests and second guess even my pretty dang sure answers. Kinda taking it just to try it, but im not ready at all :(
 

Kurita

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,003
me: i should totally buy yuru camp in japanese to practice
brain: あんたバカ?実は、他の買った日本語の漫画を読まなかったけどさ、新漫画を買いたい?
me: yeah, that's a good decision. i should do that.
Took the liberty to correct your sentence a tiny bit so it sounds more natural.

あんたバカ?こないだ買った日本語の漫画はまだ読んでないくせに、また漫画買いたいの?
 

Hypron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,657
NZ
My back is still pretty bad but after three different people told me I now know that what I have is called ぎっくり腰 haha
 

febLey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,199
Germany
I've reached level 8 on Wanikani today, that brought me to around 230 Kanji and and 500 vocab.
Simulaniously I'm steadily adding the Genki 1 vocab to Anki while doing the chapters and reinforcing them via Bunpro.
Recently I've started play play Pokemon Let's Go Eevee with Kanji, I'm far from understanding everything, but I can make up the meaning of quiete a few sentences from knowing some vocab. It's so much fun to recognize Kanji and Word that I've learned.
Also I've started with a graded reader, 10分で読めるお話 一年生, but it's still a bit hard. I think I'm missing many important grammar points.

How are your studies going?
 

Kilrogg

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,847
I've been rereading Berserk every day while commuting to and from work recently. Casually, to boot, i.e. I pretty much don't open my dictionary even when I don't know the meaning and/or reading or something (which still happens a bit too much for my liking). That's about the extent of my studies these days...