• Introducing Image Options for ResetEra 2.0! Check the left side navigation bar to show or hide images, avatars, covers, and embedded media. More details at the link.
  • Community Spotlight sign-ups are open once again for both Gaming and EtcetEra Hangout threads! If you want to shine a spotlight on your community, please register now.

Leaving Neverland, HBO documentary on Michael Jackson's alleged child sexual assaults, review thread: Currently 94% on Rotten Tomatoes

Status
Not open for further replies.
Aug 2, 2018
596
No parent in the world can ever protect their child 24/7 as the dangers that are lurking in the shadows will be very eager to jump at sign of ease. I'd also love to know if you are even a parent to begin with because not being one really contrasts that kind of bold statement.
You knucklehead, there's a difference between unable to protect your child 24/7 and letting them sleep in a bed with an adult.

This wasn't a momentary lapse of judgement, an unfortunate mistake that only happened once.

What a terrible take.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,480
Hi everyone, we don't have hbo here and I am eager to know what is going on. Is there a articles that explains this documentary or anything that I can see without needing hbo, I really want to hear teh stories of these people but have no idea where or how to
A few other places are playing it outside of HBO now, so maybe check to see if anywhere local to you is picking it up? It just aired in the UK, for example, outside of HBO. It seems like they want this to be spread as much as possible and are making deals with other networks to get it out there. It's definitely more effective to see them telling their stories themselves, especially James. The way his hands shake when he is speaking sometimes is really hard to deny. I don't know how anyone could possibly doubt him after seeing him explain his truth.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,990
My understanding is that the audience was made up of mostly childhood-sexual abuse survivors. Throughout the interview, the cuts to the audience seemed to communicate a lot of shared understanding, that was almost communal in nature. There was a lot of head-nodding, smiles, grins, winces and other sorta subtle "interaction" between individual members of the audience and the people on stage.
I believe Oprah introduced them all as childhood sex abuse survivors, and it was such a smart thing to do. They were encouraging when it was needed, laughed when it was appropriate, and nodded knowingly when they heard familiar feelings/experiences being expressed. I thought it was beautiful. I just hope they all hugged Jimmy afterwards and offered their numbers for support. He appears to be broken right now.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,990
No parent in the world can ever protect their child 24/7 as the dangers that are lurking in the shadows will be very eager to jump at sign of ease. I'd also love to know if you are even a parent to begin with because not being one really contrasts that kind of bold statement.
No parent should be expected to protect their child 24/7. But when it comes to letting a grown man/woman sleep with your child, as a parent you need to be perfect. The answer to that request is always NO. These parents failed miserably. Part of that was because each of them was a starfucker and part of it was Michael groomed them as well. He was a sick fuck, but for him to be a successful child molester, he needed willing parents. And he found them.
 

Eorl

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,717
Australia
Maybe not 24/7, but parents should aim for better than 0/7.
No parent can protect a kid 24/7. But you know what they can do? Decide if its okay with their child sleeping in the same bed a grown man.
he was not lurking in the shadows. he was screaming "i'm abusing your child" in their faces. come on.
You knucklehead, there's a difference between unable to protect your child 24/7 and letting them sleep in a bed with an adult.

This wasn't a momentary lapse of judgement, an unfortunate mistake that only happened once.

What a terrible take.
No parent should be expected to protect their child 24/7. But when it comes to letting a grown man/woman sleep with your child, as a parent you need to be perfect. The answer to that request is always NO. These parents failed miserably. Part of that was because each of them was a starfucker and part of it was Michael groomed them as well. He was a sick fuck, but for him to be a successful child molester, he needed willing parents. And he found them.
Each of these responses I agree with. A parent can not protect their child 24/7, it is impossible especially in situations like school environment and the likes. However, that does not excuse the age old rule of believing your child when they raise these concerns like seen in this doco and in the past on the subject. Obviously your kid isn't making shit up when they say they were coaxed into sleeping into a bed with an adult. That is not in any way acceptable.

But, a parent can only do so much. I know it is clique considering what I just said but realistically any person can only do so much. Does not excuse for not doing anything of course as that's just ignoring the sore thumb as one of you pointed out in them being "starstruck" over MJ, but especially when the results of investigations came back as MJ innocent it makes it even harder of a situation. Perspective and hindsight is everything in these revelations, and it fucking sucks that two children were abused (and who knows how many others) with their parents unable to do what they should have been doing and ensuring they believed their children and fought for the safety and security of them.

-

This doco is hard to watch because it is very, very confronting on someone who was once considered (and still to many as seen by the defence) the king of pop and the golden poster star of the music industry. I mean hell for me it sucks to be fully realised as to the disgusting acts MJ did by the retelling of these two victims because my sister was such a huge fan of him during her childhood to the point where she would play his CD in the car without a doubt once a week. I can definitely understand the backlash from fans because it is a ripping of the bandaid off your starstruck mentality but some are acting incredibly childish over it.

Appreciate his music but the dude was red flag paedophile material. No one sane dangles their fucking baby over the railing.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,188
isn't it obvious these kids' parents knew what was going on? i'd like to be shot down on that end, but realistically with how things went down i see zero chance a reasonable parent doesn't immediately know what's going on here and they just put up with it because the chance of being rich and famous can dupe anyone into doing anything. how would any of these parents not know what's going on? they knew and just brushed it aside and dealt with it, you see it every day from everyone in life where we just puts up with annoyances to get ahead. it very likely might have even been the parents that came forth and told their kids they had to finally admit it, isn't that a possibilty? not that it matters or anyone would ever know but, after watching this that was my thoughts, parents knew the whole time and just kept hush.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,496
I didn't think you could find a man innocent in the court of law, but I don't know as much about that law as the infographic.
 
Oct 27, 2017
937
UK
It felt like Wade is just a more cold and calculating person, or at least more capable of "shelving" emotion, as he was groomed to do. Jimmy seemed just utterly shattered by the experience and also seemed like his emotions are just nearer to the surface
I found Wade to be a very reserved person (even during the documentary) and definitely someone who could keep secrets inside for a long time. Given his broken home situation and being groomed/influenced by MJ from a young age, I came to the conclusion that - for a long time - Wade always had this notion in the back of his head that MJ was his real provider (or at least a valuable network connection) that would provide him validation in whatever he did in his life. I mean, he went into the career of choreography perhaps partly because of MJ's encouragement. MJ was a big part of the dude's life from a young age and it was obvious that Wade didn't see eye to eye with his broken family. Built up resentment from a young age can carry weight. So if MJ had advised him to keep this secret and Wade knows that by doing so he'll not only be a valid person in MJ's life (perhaps wishful thinking on his part) but also seek the validation from him that he clearly showed he desired in the documentary. And this desire carried with him until his early adulthood which should come as no surprise if he was groomed and influenced from a young age (whether it was through words or possessions). This is clearly illustrated in the documentary when Wade was asked numerous times by his mother about abuse and he flat out denies it over and over because MJ meant more to him than her. MJ meant so much of value that he took it as far as to lie in court. Again, something that's plausible if you were groomed from a young age by a man that has given you everything and all you are required to do is never say a word about something.

I'm seeing a lot of talk about Wade is faking it or he doesn't look emotional or serious enough in what he's saying therefore the documentary is a sham but based on his personality he is reserved so his behaviour from childhood growing up makes sense. Also, Jimmy's interview contrasts this well because we see how different Jimmy's personality is even though they went through the same awful experience.
 
Last edited:
Oct 26, 2017
5,353
Well, this went over about as well as I expected in The Netherlands. Lots of people going: "Yeah, but let's look at THE FACTS" "Misleading, bunch of money lusting actors!"

Even a lot of major publications are like "Well, this is what the docu said, but here are the facts"

Ugh...
 
Dec 6, 2018
505
Wade is no different than some of the veterans I had in group therapy for PTSD. Those like him are distant and cold, but obviously went through trauma.

I, like James, wear my heart on my sleeve.
 
Oct 25, 2017
379
It’s worth remembering as well that Wade continued to spend a lot of his 20s in the public limelight, and so will be used to and confident in front of cameras and large crowds. Beside a very nervous Jimmy, it may make Wade come across as ‘cold’.
 

Krejlooc

Dreamcast Porno Party
Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,822
I know this loser is banned, but just wanted to say how A) This picture was created before the documentary even was released, and B) much of what the picture claims you "wont hear" in the documentary, is talked about at length for hours in the documentary. The rest of the picture is lies, like the dumbass "10 year FBI investigation" claim.

What an idiot.
 

Krejlooc

Dreamcast Porno Party
Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,822
It’s worth remembering as well that Wade continued to spend a lot of his 20s in the public limelight, and so will be used to and confident in front of cameras and large crowds. Beside a very nervous Jimmy, it may make Wade come across as ‘cold’.
I really liked Wade's response when Oprah said "Wade is farther along than Jimmy." I thought that was a little cold from Oprah to say, and I like how Wade both stuck up for James, and also explained how you can't tell how someone is just from their outward appearance.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,417
Netherlands
Well, this went over about as well as I expected in The Netherlands. Lots of people going: "Yeah, but let's look at THE FACTS" "Misleading, bunch of money lusting actors!"

Even a lot of major publications are like "Well, this is what the docu said, but here are the facts"

Ugh...
Yup. Happily my friends are people with common sense and disgust him as well
 

Krejlooc

Dreamcast Porno Party
Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,822
isn't it obvious these kids' parents knew what was going on? i'd like to be shot down on that end, but realistically with how things went down i see zero chance a reasonable parent doesn't immediately know what's going on here and they just put up with it because the chance of being rich and famous can dupe anyone into doing anything. how would any of these parents not know what's going on? they knew and just brushed it aside and dealt with it, you see it every day from everyone in life where we just puts up with annoyances to get ahead. it very likely might have even been the parents that came forth and told their kids they had to finally admit it, isn't that a possibilty? not that it matters or anyone would ever know but, after watching this that was my thoughts, parents knew the whole time and just kept hush.
Both men still blame their mothers and neither has forgiven them yet (although they both say they're on the road to forgiveness, which will take a lifetime to travel)

I think the australian mom in particular was playing dumb. She won't even listen to the details today, she's, in some ways, still willfully ignorant.
 

Isee

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,200
Is HBO (U.S.) the only way to watch this?
The docu isn't available here in my part of the world. There is normally a cooperation between Sky (germany) and HBO so we get all the shows and documentaries that way, but not this time around. Checked Netflix, Amazon, Maxdome and other popular services (buy and rent) over here and the documentary just isn't available.

Which is strange in this digital day and age.
 

Eorl

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,717
Australia
Is HBO (U.S.) the only way to watch this?
The docu isn't available here in my part of the world. There is normally a cooperation between Sky (germany) and HBO so we get all the shows and documentaries that way, but not this time around. Checked Netflix, Amazon, Maxdome and other popular services (buy and rent) over here and the documentary just isn't available.

Which is strange in this digital day and age.
I'm not sure where you are exactly but I watched it in Australia via our Foxtel subscription service. Has all the HBO stuff. Not sure if it is geo locked but there is a trial if you'd like to see.

https://www.foxtel.com.au/index.html
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,103
Is HBO (U.S.) the only way to watch this?
The docu isn't available here in my part of the world. There is normally a cooperation between Sky (germany) and HBO so we get all the shows and documentaries that way, but not this time around. Checked Netflix, Amazon, Maxdome and other popular services (buy and rent) over here and the documentary just isn't available.

Which is strange in this digital day and age.
For German streaming options, always check werstreamt.es: https://www.werstreamt.es/film/details/1605171/leaving-neverland/

So yes, "Leaving Neverland" is completely unavailable in Germany.
 
Nov 2, 2017
2,199
Some people don't want the guilt that would arise when they confront and admit they like a pediphile's music. So they push back on the fact that he's a pediphile.
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,163
I know this loser is banned, but just wanted to say how A) This picture was created before the documentary even was released, and B) much of what the picture claims you "wont hear" in the documentary, is talked about at length for hours in the documentary. The rest of the picture is lies, like the dumbass "10 year FBI investigation" claim.

What an idiot.
Does the documentary mention FBI at all? One thing that is concerning to me is, iirc after his death the FBI admitted they were following Michael for decades and found nothing but an inappropriate conversation with a teen back in the 70s. Fast forward to Sacha Been Coen's recent show last year, Sascha made contact with an elite pedophile ring... passed the tip to the FBI and they declined to investigate. So it looks like the FBI covers for wealthy pedophiles which is disgusting.
 

Sunster

The Fallen
Oct 5, 2018
1,573
Some people don't want the guilt that would arise when they confront and admit they like a pediphile's music. So they push back on the fact that he's a pediphile.
It's just harder to live in a world where he's a bad guy so subconsciously they choose not to. same reason why right wingers deny science and rational thought. It's easier to live in the world as Trump describes it. Where problems are easily defined and easily dealt with.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,079
Columbus, OH
It's just harder to live in a world where he's a bad guy so subconsciously they choose not to. same reason why right wingers deny science and rational thought. It's easier to live in the world as Trump describes it. Where problems are easily defined and easily dealt with.
it's also impossible to get away from MJ's influence on pop music. you can boycott his music directly, but you're still going to hear stuff that is cut from a similar cloth.
 
I'm not sure where you are exactly but I watched it in Australia via our Foxtel subscription service. Has all the HBO stuff. Not sure if it is geo locked but there is a trial if you'd like to see.

https://www.foxtel.com.au/index.html
You can see it on the tenplay website in Australia too, as it was channel 10 that aired it there on free to air.

https://tenplay.com.au/channel-ten/leaving-neverland

They have an uncut and cut version to see there and from the sounds of things the cut version was the one that made it to air on TV in Australia, which I found a bit disappointing as watching the uncut version I saw Agro (the puppet) when Wade appeared on one of his programs when younger, and was glad that puppet was getting pretty much worldwide coverage, but when I quickly watched some of the cut version there was no Agro appearance! :(

Was actually cool to see a lot of other Australian TV shows footage on it as well such as Hinch when he was on TV regularly too. Not sure how much of that made the cut version though as I didn't fully watch the cut version all the way through.
 
Jan 18, 2018
351
Does the documentary mention FBI at all? One thing that is concerning to me is, iirc after his death the FBI admitted they were following Michael for decades and found nothing but an inappropriate conversation with a teen back in the 70s. Fast forward to Sacha Been Coen's recent show last year, Sascha made contact with an elite pedophile ring... passed the tip to the FBI and they declined to investigate. So it looks like the FBI covers for wealthy pedophiles which is disgusting.
Pretty scary, it's hard to stomach that kind of shit, especially being a new father and all
It's just harder to live in a world where he's a bad guy so subconsciously they choose not to. same reason why right wingers deny science and rational thought. It's easier to live in the world as Trump describes it. Where problems are easily defined and easily dealt with.
Yeah, it's depressing. I remember that MJ topic where people were coming at anyone who didnt believe he was innocent. Saying shit like let him rest and the FBI this and the FBI that, like the FBI is this end all be all source of judgement. But it's crazy going back to that topic how many people just blindly ignore any evidence against him because he made billie jean and thriller.
 

Sunster

The Fallen
Oct 5, 2018
1,573
it's also impossible to get away from MJ's influence on pop music. you can boycott his music directly, but you're still going to hear stuff that is cut from a similar cloth.
Well the boycott is up to the individual. The important part for all of us is recognizing that yes, he did these things. How you deal with that information is on you.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,758
Does the documentary mention FBI at all? One thing that is concerning to me is, iirc after his death the FBI admitted they were following Michael for decades and found nothing but an inappropriate conversation with a teen back in the 70s. Fast forward to Sacha Been Coen's recent show last year, Sascha made contact with an elite pedophile ring... passed the tip to the FBI and they declined to investigate. So it looks like the FBI covers for wealthy pedophiles which is disgusting.
This isn't true about the FBI following Jackson.
 
Oct 27, 2017
344
Wonder why that is, not wached yet but if they focus on the guys and less on the previous legal things it makes sence
I think he meant that the FBI didn’t investigate him consistently at any point. They merely helped the Santa Barbara police a few times. The “10 year investigation” is a Jackson cult lie.
 
Oct 25, 2017
923
Finally watched this, I was putting it off, dreading it even because of my own past. As a victim of abuse, every word rang true and it all hit way too close to home. I'm trying to read through the thread to get caught up on the conversation but I honestly doubt I'll be able to, on page 28 and the ceaseless defense of MJ is hard to read.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.