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Leaving Neverland, HBO documentary on Michael Jackson's alleged child sexual assaults, review thread: Currently 94% on Rotten Tomatoes
- Thread starter Brian McDoogle
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Yeah, I see your point. But at the sametime MJ was found innocent in court of law as previous claims were found to be false and made with the intent of getting paid off and these accusations more or less destroyed him.
Um is that huffpost link a joke? It's one of those contributor self submitted blogs. Like Forbes and the piece -- It's an incredibly long rambling hysterical rant against the media demanding people be fired and it's completely unhinged.
The guy's bio is uh.. Telling.
http://www.charles-thomson.net/
OP
OP
Courts in the United States do not find people to be innocent. They find people to be not guilty. There is a difference.
I never heard of him being naked in the bed before. How do we know this? Do you have a link?
I'm not sure about that article or writer in particular but I do know what the user's referring to in it is true and can be easily corroborated.
Edit: thanks for the threadmarks OP.
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If he didn't groom young boys, if he didn't have a child (from ages 9-19) sleep in his bed an excess of 400 times, including there being pictures of michael jackson in bed in his underwear with the boy, y'know it just might be easy to believe he was innocent
We're supposed to believe his infatuation with kids stopped when it came to sexuality? Even if he didn't do anything physically, the relationship he had with those kids was clearly abusive and damaging. I strongly suspect even MJ was lying to himself about his true feelings and intentions.
The dude was a weirdo that should've never been able to get as close as he did to kids. Everyone should be able to agree on that.
The dude was a weirdo that should've never been able to get as close as he did to kids. Everyone should be able to agree on that.
What is the proper timetable for rape victims to come forward?
MJ defenders : He is innocent, he was found innocent in court
Other people: knowing all this Would you have sent your children to Neverland?
Also MJ defenders: Hell No
Other people: knowing all this Would you have sent your children to Neverland?
Also MJ defenders: Hell No
So Wade Robson now says that it was when his son was born, that he realized what Michael had apparently done was wrong. So I was curious, when exactly was this?
I found that Wade's son was born in 2011, and Wade apparently had a nervous breakdown in March of 2011. According to his court papers, he started therapy in May. Further, he said that he told his therapist abou the abuse on May 8, 2012.
So I wondered if there were comments out there from Robson about MJ in 2012 in particular. Well, here's one interview I've never seen before. In July of 2012.
He talks about how he first met MJ like it's a fond memory. These dance contests that he's talking about were the ones that he alleged in his lawsuit were organized by MJJ Productions and Ventures, which didn't even exist at the time. In reality, it was organized by Target and CBS, which his mother also attested to in her deposition. The meeting was in 1987, MJJ Productions was founded in 1991.
EDIT: And here is Wade conducted a dance class for Michael's music in September of 2012.
I found that Wade's son was born in 2011, and Wade apparently had a nervous breakdown in March of 2011. According to his court papers, he started therapy in May. Further, he said that he told his therapist abou the abuse on May 8, 2012.
So I wondered if there were comments out there from Robson about MJ in 2012 in particular. Well, here's one interview I've never seen before. In July of 2012.
He talks about how he first met MJ like it's a fond memory. These dance contests that he's talking about were the ones that he alleged in his lawsuit were organized by MJJ Productions and Ventures, which didn't even exist at the time. In reality, it was organized by Target and CBS, which his mother also attested to in her deposition. The meeting was in 1987, MJJ Productions was founded in 1991.
EDIT: And here is Wade conducted a dance class for Michael's music in September of 2012.
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I would like to point out that even though MJ might not have done anything explicitly, it's still entirely possible he was a pedophile. The relationships he had with the kids definitely came across as romantic at times. MJ himself might've believed he was innocent, but as an observer it's clear that his relationship with the kids was quite toxic and damaging. It simply isn't natural for a grown man to be so infatuated with children.
All of this strongly makes me suspect he was a pedo. MJ was a damaged and abusive person at his core. This kind of behavior would've never been accepted if he hadn't been famous.
Thanks for putting in the time to make these posts.
It does seem that Michael Jackson's accusers only seem to come forward when either he or his estate have refused them a pay day.
You can believe that he was innocent of sexual assault while also not feeling comfortable with your own child going to a stranger's house for a sleepover. It isn't an "either or" situation.
Are you talking a out Omar Bhatti? Where's this picture? Aren't there rumours Omar was his son? I know he's still around, and has a strong admiration for Michael and his family.
I think the point they are trying to make is that it's possible MJ was found innocent of sexual assault, but still be a predator. All of the behavior we know about is clearly predatory. He isn't innocent.
And the flip side of that is we have no way of knowing how many boys settled with Jackson, only Chandler was publicly named. But if I recall correctly the FBI estimated he spent something like 34 million in private settlements, but supposedly Chandler was only in the 20s. Btw, if Jackson had been accused of fondeling/oral with little girls he openly slept with of months/years, No one would defend him.
You can't compare Woody Allen to Michael Jackson. He was accused by his ex-wife who had a lot of problems. The accusations never were very believable in the first place.
http://mosesfarrow.blogspot.com/2018/05/a-son-speaks-out-by-moses-farrow.html
He must have cared for McCauley Culkin deeply, considering he kept his autograph here:
Mod Edit: Inappropriate Source Removed
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I've been seeing places use this dialy mail link... But its daily mail so I question its authenticity. Any reputable news sources claim these books were found?
Been reading this too:
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=8j4ILUllObsC&pg=PA153&lpg=PA153&dq=michael+Jackson+underwear+in+bed+pic&source=bl&ots=zObweQuERY&sig=ACfU3U3qBPORCjokipSO1WMJUhkjRVwKEg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjOo5GxueDgAhXZDmMBHcBsCMgQ6AEwB3oECAsQAQ#v=onepage&q=michael Jackson underwear in bed pic&f=false
The rent a wreck boy apparently described Michael Jackson penis in detail? Including positions of splotches where had discolouration. That's pretty messed up.
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When Jackson would tour he frequently bought boys with him as traveling companions. They stayed in his room, with the parents in a different room ( if they were even there at all).
So ask yourself - suppose Jackson in his 30s had toured and bought along a 12/13 year old girl with him, she stays in the room with him, sleeps in his bed with him. No one would of thought that was ok, and it would of been no surprise if the girl revealed there was sexual activity while sleeping in a grown mans bed for months.
That was the rumour going around then but law enforcement sources came out and said around the time of the case that the photos of his stuff did not match the description. The description referenced vague brown blotches, which would be common on someone with vitiligo. Most importantly, the description described him as being circumcised when he was confirmed by policy and autopsy to not be.
Here is the actual police report without all the gossip. Fun fact: None of the stuff the article claims was found shows up in the report.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-stfayCXLjudXY1b0d2c2JoSUU/view?usp=drivesdk
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Interesting how this post is getting ignored by most people in this thread, despite being on the front page's first posts.
Normal people sleep with kids all the time, nothing to see, also having child porn, not big deal he made thriller so it's ok. Plus every innocent man pays to not go to tribunals some times.
I honestly don't know what to think. I have looked at the 2005 trial and IMO that family was trying to extort money from Jackson IMO, there was all kinds of ridiculous stuff like the mother claiming they were kept prisoner at Neverland ranch and she was plotting to escape via hot air balloon (not kidding) when there are credit card records that show she was out and about in Los Angeles shopping and going to salons using Jackson's credit card. They lost that case badly.
Drewton does raise some fair points.
On the other hand, obviously his behavior was obviously not normal. I suppose it is possible that he basically lived in a state of arrested development and idealized childhood to such a degree that he basically was a kid at heart.
Drewton does raise some fair points.
On the other hand, obviously his behavior was obviously not normal. I suppose it is possible that he basically lived in a state of arrested development and idealized childhood to such a degree that he basically was a kid at heart.
I'm really getting tired of people coming into the thread to create strawmen and just make shit up to make a snarky drive by post.
Watched an interview with one of the detectives in the Aviso case the other day. I think his mother was a liability, and a con. But I don't think Aviso himself was. For that matter, he has apparently been offered 6 figures to do interviews, tell his side, but he never has, and unlike Chandler he isn't bound by a non disclosure agreement, would be easy for him to cash in. If he had just been making shit up for $$$, wouldn't he be doing paid interviews?
Why would the mother lie in the court case though. If the thing was a lie, I sure as heck wouldn't want to give interviews about it either.
Nah I was talking about Brett Barnes. I'm not aware if the picture was ever presented publicly, but it was presented during Barnes' testimony.
No drive by, in willing to discusse why it's ok to defend a pedophile
While not child pornograhy per se, these are still some very weird books to have. But then again Michael had a huge art/photography book collection which covered a a vast amount of topics.
She had a history of scam behavior. I honestly think she knew what would probably happen if she let her son sleep with michael, she wanted a settlement. I feel terrible for him he had that awful family, then michaels sleepovers and labeled forever by his fans a con. When I watched his interview with the detectives he behaved like any other boy would in that situation - he minimized it. From my own memory of that age, had I somehow been forced to talk about it (If I couldnt just lie and deny) I would if minimized it as well, like it wasn't a big deal. That's how boys who been victimized sexually sort of protect themselves at that age.
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Brett Barnes defends MJ though, it seems. His twitter is pretty adamant. Not sure what this means but hey.
Out of curiosity, why are you only focusing on that one post and ignoring the other, far more detailed posts they've made on the topic?
User Banned (2 Weeks): Inflammatory Commentary in a Thread Concerning Allegations of Child Sexual Abuse
I know a few people that know Wade from his dancing/music career. All I can say is that he lost many friends because of his lies and backstabbing. He's a fraud.
James and Wade worked 25 months on this documentary, thats a lot of time to get their stories perfectly aligned with eachother.
Normally I'd say don't blame the victims, but these guys arent victims, they are frauds .
James and Wade worked 25 months on this documentary, thats a lot of time to get their stories perfectly aligned with eachother.
Normally I'd say don't blame the victims, but these guys arent victims, they are frauds .
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The victims of childhood sexual abuse often exhibit antisocial behaviour later in life. Calling him a fraud for acting in the manor of an abuse victim, classy.
ARE YOU SERIOUS? REALLY? LMFAO Tell me when you have places like Sundance and the NYT/WaPo/Vulture/Time/CNN/Chicago Tribute/Boston Globe/Newsday/WSJ all vouch for the veracity of fucking loose change. Like what are you even talking about? Offering that as an example just kinda shows how far deep you are. Why are you caping for this dude?
And even if they are money-grubbing cheats, liars, and whatever else you throw at these victims, that doesn't really change that these kids were probably 100% abused. And that fucks you with horrible ways for a long time. Not only the kids, but their families too.
We've seen this exact same thing happen with Michael Cohen/Tim Donaghy/Jose Canseco and now someone like Wade Robson. You can impugn their character all you want, but that doesn't mean they're liars about stuff they'd be privy too.
What are exactly the antisocial behaviours that abuse victimrs display later in life? As in what characteristics/behaviours? From what it sounds like, Wade did certain antisocial behaviours that had an end goal of getting one up, improving his life, and slimy backstabbing things. Different from just being a recluse or not having emotional intelligence. But maybe I'm wrong?
The tonality of this thread is strange considering how people usually react here when accusations are brought against a celebrity. I'm going to watch this doc this weekend and reserve my judgment till then.
Take victims seriously. Give them their due process, conduct a serious investigation, and give them their day in court. This isn't that. This looks like a hit job by accusers who were already discredited looking for another payday. I don't care about MJ one bit, and if he was a child molestor his legacy should be burned to the ground. But this doc doesn't sound convincing.
Ignoring the quality of that article Stinkles rightfully brought up:
Yeah, no, that's not a source. That's just a Huffington Post Contributor making exactly the same claim, without sourcing it. In fact, he even says "seemingly", making even his claim wishy-washy. After searching for quite some time the only original source I found for the claim is...Michael Jackson's Defense Attorney. So, to me, it seems like the Defense Attorney claimed this and a few people then just repeated that claim as fact?
If that's the case: That's not how this works. You can't just repeat things a person's defense attorney claimed to defend him as proven facts (or even just, as this Contributor did, "seeming" fact) to discredit the evidence.
Also, I will repeat once again:
All of this shit is just the top of the iceberg. The foundation is that a grown-ass, adult man, sleeps in the same bed and bedroom, cuddles and lovingly holds hands with children he is not related to and that this is incredibly fucked up and absolutely not OK. Can you just confirm for me that saying this, to you, means that one is on a "petty little crusade"?
I had this thought at work today and ended up googling concert tickets for her when I should have been working.
Her back catalogue is amazing and she mostly avoided the production excess that MJ loved. I love his music but as a whole I think her catalogue is better for me (though maybe that's due to his music being played to death).
Speaking for myself, when I was a child the abuse I went through made it very, very difficult to relate to other kids my age, i kind of was left feeling like i was fundamentally different, not in a good or unique way. As an adult not being able to trust, form long lasting relationships, and a habit, stemming from my childhood abuse of denied when thing are wrong in my life, pushing away people who expressed care/love etc., could probably think of more but not hopping down that rabbit hole.
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