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Leftist Youtube |OT| We Virtue Signal

muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
10,473
a sunken pirate ship
I would say "you'd be surprised how many of these chuds are pedos, though" but considering how many contacts for Trump that Epstein had in his address book, maybe it's not that surprising after all
 

Mulciber

Member
Aug 22, 2018
4,293
I would say "you'd be surprised how many of these chuds are pedos, though" but considering how many contacts for Trump that Epstein had in his address book, maybe it's not that surprising after all
True, but that's a little irrelevant to my point. Milo wasn't, for example, kicked off The_Donald for disagreeing with someone. He was abandoned by the alt-right, because strategically, they know a guy who is known to be pro-pedo won't be useful for spreading their ideas to centrists and "normies."
 

Pantaghana

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
513
Croatia
Actually that's not true. Right-wing subs on Reddit ban you at the drop of the hat if you should dare to disagree with the hatred.
The same goes for Milo and other tokens. They are only tolerated as long as they support the hate. When they dare to disagree they get dropped without a second thought. Usually violently so.
That happened to quite a few people from the not your shield campaign during Gamergate for example.

There is a reason for the onion structure mentioned in the video.
If you disagree with the hatred, you disagree with the central premise of the movement and aren't politically useful so getting banned is expected.

But I'm not talking about their treatment of individuals without a platform, I'm talking how groups treat different groups.
To continue the onion analogy, how different layers of the onion treat each other, and to go even further, different points on the onion.
 

FliXFantatier

Master of the Reality Stone
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,264
Los Angeles
Thanks to Thought Slime I have started reading up more on Anarchist philosophy. Does anyone have any good book recommendations on the subject?
I just borrowed two books with anarchism in the title at the library, and am quite enjoying Translating Anarchy by Mark Bray so far.
 

Ira

Member
Oct 27, 2017
209
So, Lindsay is having some issues with a copyright claim.


YouTube responded.


And so here we are.


Would be nice if YouTube was actually held accountable for their awful system/policies for once.
 

Ira

Member
Oct 27, 2017
209
To think how many people do not have the resources and know-how to fight these spurious claims. Fuck capitalism.
Yeah, it's awful.

For sure. I'll be honest, I don't even understand what is going on, precisely.

I hope all the best for Lindsay.
To summarize to the best of my understanding, UMG made a copyright claim on her video and put ads on it and because it's a sponsored video part of her contract with Audible stipulates that ads cannot be run on it which technically puts her in violation of that contract. Someone brought up that YouTube could be considered the party in violation (since they're responsible for it happening, it being their platform,) and YouTube responded with a whole lot of nothing, just clarifying that the claim is "valid" insofar that UMG owns the copyright and it's now up to them to decide whether to accept the appeal. So, Lindsay now seems intent on taking it directly to YouTube. Not knowledgeable about how much of a case she actually has here, so dunno how it'll develop.
 
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Mulciber

Member
Aug 22, 2018
4,293
To summarize to the best of my understanding, UMG made a copyright claim on her video and put ads on it and because it's a sponsored video part of her contract with Audible stipulates that ads cannot be run on it which technically puts her in violation of that contract. Someone brought up that YouTube could be considered the party in violation (since they're responsible for it happening, it being their platform,) and YouTube responded with a whole lot of nothing, just clarifying that the claim is "valid" insofar that UMG owns the copyright and it's now up to them to decide whether to accept the appeal. So, Lindsay now seems intent on taking it directly to YouTube. Not knowledgeable about how much of a case she actually has here, so dunno how it'll develop.
Oh wow, thank you. Okay, so I definitely didn't know that UMG could just go in and put ads on her video. That seems really wrong to me. I want to say again: Good luck to Lindsay! I hope she wins this (however that might come about).
 
Jun 22, 2019
322
To think how many people do not have the resources and know-how to fight these spurious claims. Fuck capitalism.
To be fair, when your content is clearly fair use, fighting the claims through the YT automated system is often really simple (but still frustrating).

You do the appeal, then (a decent amount of the time you have to follow up with a) counter-appeal, and then in case of a strike (the copyright "owner" going that far is rare) you appeal the strike.

The complication for this case is Lindsay's video apparently needing to be ad-free as per agreement with her sponsor (weird as fuck agreement to put in a contract for anyone who's familiar with YT, I have to say), and the copyright claimant forcing ads rather than disabling them.
 
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Ira

Member
Oct 27, 2017
209
To be fair, when your content is clearly fair use, fighting the claims through the YT automated system is often really simple (but still frustrating).

You do the appeal, then (a decent amount of the time you have to follow up with a) counter-appeal, and then in case of a strike (the copyright "owner" going that far is rare) you appeal the strike.

The complication for this case is Lindsay's video apparently needing to be ad-free as per agreement with her sponsor (weird as fuck agreement to put in a contract for anyone who's familiar with YT, I have to say), and the copyright claimant forcing ads rather than disabling them.
Isn't the issue also that often times copyright holders don't actually respect fair use? If a copyright holder decides to uphold a claim you're out of luck unless you're willing/able to lawyer up. At least, that was my impression, I'm no youtuber.
 
Jun 22, 2019
322
Isn't the issue also that often times copyright holders don't actually respect fair use? If a copyright holder decides to uphold a claim you're out of luck unless you're willing/able to lawyer up. At least, that was my impression, I'm no youtuber.
They (technically) have to lawyer up first and actually send you legal docs if you dispute/appeal them all the way to the final step.

I am a YouTuber (god, I hate saying that), and have gotten to that final phase before in a dispute (no court action was taken, and I don't even know of a single case where a large company actually followed through on that).

From YouTube Help:
"After we process your counter notification by forwarding it to the claimant, the claimant has 10 business days to give us evidence that they've initiated a court action to keep the content down. This time period is a requirement of copyright law, so please be patient.

If your account has been suspended for multiple copyright violations, the counter notification webform will be inaccessible. If appropriate, you may submit a free-form counter notification."
 
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Ira

Member
Oct 27, 2017
209
They (technically) have to lawyer up first and actually send you legal docs if you dispute/appeal them all the way to the final step.

I am a YouTuber (god, I hate saying that), and have gotten to that final phase before in a dispute (no court action was taken, and I don't even know of a single case where a large company actually followed through on that).

From YouTube Help:
"After we process your counter notification by forwarding it to the claimant, the claimant has 10 business days to give us evidence that they've initiated a court action to keep the content down. This time period is a requirement of copyright law, so please be patient.

If your account has been suspended for multiple copyright violations, the counter notification webform will be inaccessible. If appropriate, you may submit a free-form counter notification."
Interesting. Thanks for the clarification.
 
Jun 22, 2019
322
Interesting. Thanks for the clarification.
Yeah, YT is fucked in countless ways, but people tend to over-exaggerate about certain things anyway despite the legit problems.

The big issue in regards to fair use was that claims used to just steal or eliminate your ad revenue with zero recourse or way to get it back. I used to complain how they need to implement a side-account and pay out to the victor of the dispute, which is exactly what they eventually implemented (been that way for a few years now).

There's still problems in that certain claims (thankfully they're more uncommon) make the video de-monetized with no way for it to display ads at all during the dispute process, and/or the claim causes the video to be blocked in some countries.

But as far as getting claims cleared, and in most cases getting your "lost" revenue, it's just a lengthy process (lots of waiting, many claims clear by timing out) and annoying to have to do. If you have common sense and know unequivocally your content falls under fair use, you shouldn't be fearful of the process at all, however.

The problem Lindsay is complaining about is really specific, and apparently revolves around her Audible sponsor wanting the video to lack ads.
(Which again, is just fucking weird as hell to put in a contract and agree to, because c'mon, it's YT, of course it's possible it'll get claimed and have ads forced upon it.)
 

Kilrogg

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,800
As a European with a white collar job, many things talked about here are alien to me. Like it comes from a dystopian alternate reality.
Don't get me wrong, my job isn't paradise but still...

American work culture is beyond fucked up.
Yeah, same here. Although, I don't know about you, but I work in a startup company, so I have to imagine that, even in the US, things are pretty different from what is talked about in the video if you happen to be working in a tiny company. Imagine unionizing in a 3-man company lol. This seems to apply mostly to mid-sized and large companies.
 

Pantaghana

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
513
Croatia
Yeah, same here. Although, I don't know about you, but I work in a startup company, so I have to imagine that, even in the US, things are pretty different from what is talked about in the video if you happen to be working in a tiny company. Imagine unionizing in a 3-man company lol. This seems to apply mostly to mid-sized and large companies.
I work in a fairly large company.
There's even an union, but I'm not all that familiar with it actually. Pretty sure it's a holdover from Yugoslavia.
 

Mulciber

Member
Aug 22, 2018
4,293
I've never really felt like this anywhere I worked, but I have been mostly lucky. Also one of my longest jobs was working for a nonprofit, so there's that.
 

Caz

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,958
Canada
To think how many people do not have the resources and know-how to fight these spurious claims. Fuck capitalism.
Speaking as a smaller channel...yeah it's disgraceful how much abuse of copyright law has screwed over people without the same connections or ability to raise a stink and get a clear case of ignoring fair use as a defense for transformative media; i've had at least two videos of mine struck into the void, one being blocked globally (it was on the history of Canadian music, thanks Warner Music you ghouls), the outright removed/voluntarily taken down because the copyright holder was going to leave a strike on my channel if I didn't (thanks ShoPro).
 

Dracil

Member
Oct 30, 2017
710

May not go where you think it goes, depending on how you view these issues. But overall, same message as Thought Slime's Easy Direct Action video I think.
 

thepotatoman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,279
Denver

Love Thought Slime.

P.s. CannonFodder52, it's a travesty that he is still not listed in the OT. 😉
I very much agree libs and leftists suck at arguing outside of their in groups, and that kelly ann conway example was an excellent one, but I'm skeptical about it being because common sense across the board favors the right. There's lots of issues the right has to do the heavy lifting on, like why the solution to drug addiction is jailtime, or why CEOs and bankers deserve any trust or freedom at all.

You can probably just end the video half way in where he points out how libs and leftists look for the gotcha in order to win arguments instead of selling their own ideas.
 

Delphine

Resting Witch Face
Moderator
Mar 30, 2018
1,698
France

I was a NLOG as a teenager, so I related a lot to what she said here. Extremely interesting.
It also makes rewatching some movies very interesting in retrospect.

Like:
- Legally Blonde
- Clueless
- Mean Girls

are all pretty damn good feminist movies in their own ways. Rewatching them as a feminist adult offered new layers of interpretation, than when I did as a teenager. And nowadays you have movies like Booksmart that keep on doing that as well, in a beautiful and fun way.
 

she_esh

Member
Sep 12, 2018
6,889
Ireland
"Buck Angel is not Richard Spencer"

Really? Is that the line? Why doesn't she just have Glinner on a video in that case.

Also there's been a lot of criticism of her claims that every trans person over a certain age is truscum.
 

V_Arnold

Member
Oct 26, 2017
642
Hungary
I am not sure if anyone else is following the recent week's Destiny-related drama, but god damn, he is uncovering the same type of bullshit amongst leftist circles as he did with Jontron.

There is a group of self-proclaimed "leftists", who, when paired against him, are unable to vocalize their points properly, unable to make reasonable arguments and unable to follow a simple chain of reasoning. It is might-boggingly insane. Just watching this last video without any context should suffice to see what kind of content this is:


To get to the "start" of this, for example, you should start with this:


Which created this reaction - in which Peter actually just LEAVES in about 20 minutes after conceding on every single point, and just not owning up to what he did:


In comparison, THIS is when he argues with someone who does not have any ulterior motive of deplatforming/"destroying" him:


There is a LOT more about this, but I know this topic is not so hot with Destiny as he was banned from here. I do not agree with him politically on capitalism's current state of affairs and on the solutions, but leftitst need to drop this lowkey antiintellectual bullshit and start with actual arguments instead of attacking him on a personal level.
 

Atrophis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
613
Notts, UK
Destiny got completely exposed by Ben Burgis. Dude descends to Shapiro levels of nonsense when going up against anyone who isn't a mouth breathing reactionary.
 

V_Arnold

Member
Oct 26, 2017
642
Hungary
Destiny got completely exposed by Ben Burgis. Dude descends to Shapiro levels of nonsense when going up against anyone who isn't a mouth breathing reactionary.
Well, then the exposition chain goes infinite cause he exposed the shallowness of Peter Coffin and Hasan too. AT LEAST. At the very least. (And in the debate with Michael Albert, they get into a quite productive discussion about post-capitalist societies, compared to other debates). My point is that these leftist celebrities can and often be lazy when it comes to their approach to opposing political ideologies.

If a leftist cannot hold their own against a liberal, then there is some heavy intellectual work to do, because that debate and that fight is winnable.
 

V_Arnold

Member
Oct 26, 2017
642
Hungary
What is his argument against Hasan? I've seen his prior attempts to dig up dirt on him and found them wanting.
This whole beef between them is about a podcast where they debated whether it is ever okay to use N-word in a private settings. Destiny falled back on nuances (saying that it is okay to use it privately if it is in a satirical context, for example) and Hasan of course, does not believe that while refusing to say that he does not believe that when pushed on it. This is some heavily murky shit with tons of in-group references and beef obtained from previous discussions, so I would only advise this to people who have the free time and the strange lust for content like this: their "last?" debate
 

BrassDragon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,258
The Netherlands
What is his argument against Hasan? I've seen his prior attempts to dig up dirt on him and found them wanting.
Destiny's criticism of Hasan is that he is unwilling to follow his stated principles (or implied principles - he sometimes dodges restating them when Destiny asks) to their logical conclusion. E.g. he has no faith in state-sponsored law enforcement but retreats into a smoke screen when asked about what crime victims should do in plausible emergency situations.

As I understand it, Destiny claims Hasan withdraws from the substance (as in, how do principles and grand systems impact reality) and only discusses context or whataboutism which seems to be Destiny's overall hang-up about debating voices from the left.
 

Atrophis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
613
Notts, UK
Well, then the exposition chain goes infinite cause he exposed the shallowness of Peter Coffin and Hasan too. AT LEAST. At the very least. (And in the debate with Michael Albert, they get into a quite productive discussion about post-capitalist societies, compared to other debates). My point is that these leftist celebrities can and often be lazy when it comes to their approach to opposing political ideologies.

If a leftist cannot hold their own against a liberal, then there is some heavy intellectual work to do, because that debate and that fight is winnable.
Coffin was just too nice and wanted to avoid any confrontation with Destiny. I'm not a massive fan of Coffin in any case.

The guy who really embarrassed himself was Douglas Lane. Dude sounded like a moron and should probably stick to scripted videos.
 

V_Arnold

Member
Oct 26, 2017
642
Hungary
Coffin was just too nice and wanted to avoid any confrontation with Destiny. I'm not a massive fan of Coffin in any case.

The guy who really embarrassed himself was Douglas Lane. Dude sounded like a moron and should probably stick to scripted videos.
He was so nice he basically put all alt-right charicatures and put destiny's face on them.... -.-