I remember really loving the look of the beta graveyard. That and the beta Forever Forest from Paper Mario were some of my favorite screenshots from that time.
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Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time Beta Build with Spaceworld 97 Assets Found
- Thread starter Lady Bow
- Start date
I remember really loving the look of the beta graveyard. That and the beta Forever Forest from Paper Mario were some of my favorite screenshots from that time.
Hmm, no that's not quite what I had in mind, thank you for pointing it out, you're talking about the horned statue that offers you deals, right?
That thing is a mystery.
Maybe I just accidentally heard the Colossus referred to as being evil/Din before.
Also just occurred to me, Link to the Past... does no one have Triforce pieces in that, since the Triforce is already assembled?
Wait did some reading okay, this is ganon from OOT, link dies in this timeline okay...
So question for any lore buffs, does this passage from LTTP (copied from wiki, mind the numbers):
Eventually, the search for the Triforce ensued a great war until the evil thief Ganondorf and his minions broke the seal into the hidden land.[4][59] Upon murdering his companions and claiming the Triforce for his own, Ganon used its power to turn the Golden Land into the Dark World.[94] Raising an army of monsters to assault the land of Hyrule, Ganon was nearly successful in spreading his evil over all the land, but was stopped when the Knights of Hyrule and the Seven Wise Men sealed him in the Dark World.[60]
Is this technically a retelling of the end of OOT, where the sages seal him away, despite him killing Link?
alright, thanks!
Updated reused/dropped concepts list:
Reused Concepts-
- Horse Whistle - Twilight Princess, same thing
- Embody Navi - Possibly, TP and WW, used for bird's eye views,
- May also be a dropped implementation of Fairy magic from Zelda II
- Rescue fairies from dungeons (specifically, rescuing the fairies from the cursed Deku Tree as the first dungeon) - Majora's Mask
- Turn invisible to enemies using the shadow medallion - Majora's Mask, stone mask
- Complete Dungeons in any order - Breath of the Wild, ALBW (obviously not completely any order, but very close.)
- Specifically, it was "flexible" in that certain groups were interchangeable (<-> denotes interchangeability)
- Deku, Zora <-> Goron, Forest/Wind <-> Fire <-> Water/Ice, Shadow <-> Spirit
- A+C equip layout - possibly similar to TP on Wii (can't remember how it works on gamecube.)
- Resting at Inns to change time to specific times of day - MM, scarecrow, Grandma, song of double time. BOTW, resting at an inn or a campsite.
- Naming your horse - Implemented in TP
Stuff that got cut that was based on previous games -
- LttP - Medallions as usable items, original hookshot design
- General - Blade beam
- A+B reversed - exactly how it sounds, swords was on "A" contextual actions were on "B"
- Mine weapon
- 6 types of arrow magic, based on 6 medallion's magics.
- Ice Medallion magic, puts out flames
- Fire Medallion magic -> Dins fire
OH, if you didn't get the ocarina, or have Zelda's Lullaby, did you have to pay great fairies for magic??? Or did they exist at all?
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The only way the fallen hero timeline ever made sense to me, is as a "what-if" scenario where Ganondorf wins the final battle, collects the other Triforce pieces, and then while he's still assembling them, the sages take their one chance to lock him in the Sacred Realm. That would make everything fit, besides the fact that it's still a what-if scenario and not the result of any known time travel shenanigans or anything.
That said, I think this post is how we got on this topic, and it contains the central misconception:
Ganondorf took the Triforce of Power. It was never given to him (unless you count one instance of the Triforce split apparently carrying over from the adult timeline to the newly-formed child timeline without his knowledge). I don't think any of the games ever established where the Triforce of Power would go if someone split the Triforce and kept Wisdom or Courage for themselves. That has never happened, so it's an open question.
Yeah that was me making a mistake from him having it in Twilight Princess, I thought it got "rebestowed to him" magically out of nowhere, and then he wrecked the sages, but I understand differently now.
Though I already understood that in my look at ALttP, I was just asking if lore-wise, if that passage about the sages and the knights was now meant to basically be a "story passed through time" version of what happened in the "bad end" of ocarina. Link was the knight, he helped weaken Ganondorf enough to let the sages capture him, but still died. This would actually make more sense because we know when Ganon went for the triforce, it split automatically, and I've lost my train of though lmao *shakes hands exhaustively*
You're not alone there. Ganondorf's place in Twilight Princess's plot is dependent on the implications of an easily-missed detail from the ending of Ocarina of Time. It causes a lot of confusion.
Ah, so now we have an early attempt at a river level, to go with that town and graveyard from earlier. Once again, we can see how much they needed to learn, and did learn in the end.
Oh, cool, that fits this from earlier:
The waterfall could still be outside this cave. You'd "ask for the waterfall of your desire" (which reminds me of that Japanese text referring to a "Waterfall of Wishes") and it would open for you, and let you into the cave. And then the actual entrance to Zora's Domain is underwater. Not really sure what the wish mechanic would be, but the pieces fit.
So this is just complete speculation here, but:
What if the fairy transformation spell was used for getting to the hard to reach places the scarecrow song helps with in the final game? Those are usually high up ledges, similar to what the spell helped with in Zelda II. We see here that songs were originally maybe just for warping too. Navi also just flies to those spots automatically. May have been limited the same way rather than always available?
What if the fairy transformation spell was used for getting to the hard to reach places the scarecrow song helps with in the final game? Those are usually high up ledges, similar to what the spell helped with in Zelda II. We see here that songs were originally maybe just for warping too. Navi also just flies to those spots automatically. May have been limited the same way rather than always available?
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Either this has four water levels, or the water doesn't completely drain. The former would be interesting. It could mean the Water Temple used to be more complicated.
That's actually a rather intelligent guess.
It's also a rather ingenious solution to act as a replacement when you have to cut so much magic from the game.
The reason the Triforce got split in the new timeline Zelda sent Link to was because she sent him along with the Triforce of Courage. The Triforce of Courage couldn't go with him (probably cuz then there'd be two) and stayed behind and Link was given the Triforce of Courage of the new timeline. The other pieces went to their respective owners.
What happened was OoT was built on the premise of being The Imprisoning War described in ALttP. OoT ended with an alternate timeline being created and they immediately cashed in on that concept by making Wind Waker. Some time between the release of OoT and the development of FSA/TP they seem to have realized OoT does a pretty terrible job being The Imprisoning War:
Imprisoning War: No Hero, Ganon gets complete Triforce and makes a wish, the Knights of Hyrule and 7 Seven Sages stop Ganon by sealing off the Sacred Realm.
OoT: Hero of Time, Ganon only gets the Triforce of Power, Ganon is sealed in the Sacred Realm with just the ToP by Link and the 7 Sages.
So someone at Nintendo was like "We can fix this. We'll just have FSA take place between OoT and ALttP and THAT will be the Imprisoning War! Sure there's a Link, but no Master Sword, so... yeah!"
But FSA was meant to be a party game and Miyamoto felt that such an involved story didn't suit it. Also I strongly feel that part of the reason FSA ditched the ALttP references is because at the time it was decided to have Twilight Princess be The Imprisoning War. Even in its final state the ties to ALttP are much stronger than OoT's. Stuff like Ganon's Malice, the Dark World, Link turning into an animal. Twilight Princess fell into development hell and the director of the game quit. Miyamoto forced Aonuma to take over as director. At some point it was decided TP wouldn't be the Imprisoning War either. This caused problems cuz the story is heavily dependent on directly following OoT and taking place in the Child Timeline.
After years of trying and failing to make a game based on the Imprisoning War, they made a third fork in the timeline after OoT and used that to explain it. OoT still is not The Imprisoning War. The way they explained it was:
Ganon defeated Link and Zelda and got his hands on the complete Triforce. Link, Zelda, and the Sages work together and manage to seal Ganon in the Sacred Realm. ALttP says Ganon got his hands on the Triforce way before the Imprisoning War, but got stuck after he made his wish, so this works.
The Imprisoning War is a separate event that happened between OoT and ALttP. Ganon tried to break the seal on the Sacred Realm and sent his Malice and monsters out into Hyrule. The Knights and Sages re-seal the Sacred Realm.
Then ALttP happens.
As for why there's a 3rd timeline, my headcanon is that Downfall Timeline is the original timeline. The reason Link failed was because he faced Ganondorf as a child and wasn't strong enough. After they sealed Ganon, Rauru was sent back in time to stop Ganon from winning and put a spell on the Master Sword to require Link to be an adult, creating the Adult Timeline. And then when Zelda sent Link back at the end of the Adult Timeline she created the Child Timeline.
tl;dr
OoT -> 100s of years -> Imprisoning War -> 100s of years -> ALttP
Huh. ok.
Just reading on your last thing - Historia says the downfall happens if adult link fails after Zelda is captured, though I suppose that's why it's your headcanon and not well, canon.
This and the damn Unicorn Fountain are what I want more than anything else.
This is awesome. Thanks for posting everything, this and Pokémon beta stuff is stuff I never thought we'd see
To consider many spend hours, days, weeks or potentially longer looking at this screenshot to figure out what it was. Turns out, it's the gate just in the good 'ol Hyrule Town.
Last night I was thinking about how the large curved room worked with the pillar idea and I figured it had to be around the main hall. Guess this confirms that thought. Honestly, this looks really interesting. I'm curious if they'll be able to get it working with all the actors as well. Having this playable as it is is already insane, but imagine it fully working as it was at one point.
Last night I was thinking about how the large curved room worked with the pillar idea and I figured it had to be around the main hall. Guess this confirms that thought. Honestly, this looks really interesting. I'm curious if they'll be able to get it working with all the actors as well. Having this playable as it is is already insane, but imagine it fully working as it was at one point.
It seems the map data is imported into the URA Zelda Debug Rom, which was a PAL Rom which supported multiple languages. Guess they're more familiar with that language than English.
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the thing that is absolutely devastating is that everyone, especially the people hacking things together, keep using google translate for those quick hit posts.
do people still not know about www.deepl.com/translator?
do people still not know about www.deepl.com/translator?
The leak is legit the most interesting thing that came out from Nintendo in years.
I've been dying to see more of this stuff since I was a kid.
I've been dying to see more of this stuff since I was a kid.
For someone like me, a kid at the time who used to obsess over beta screenshots in Official Nintendo Magazine or N64 Magazine and print off pictures to take into school of Hyrule Field with all the locations and character guides etc, this has been a goldmine of information. I hadn't even played a Zelda game at that point in my life yet this game looked incredible to me with the big worlds and cool bosses and such. I remember getting a free strategy guide from ONM and spoiling myself silly about all the different temples and weapons, before I even got the game for Christmas.
What makes me laugh is that we (UK) got the PAL version which is objectively worse in every conceivable way to the NTSC version. But as a kid, I definitely wouldn't have known any better!
What makes me laugh is that we (UK) got the PAL version which is objectively worse in every conceivable way to the NTSC version. But as a kid, I definitely wouldn't have known any better!
Seems logical and would explain why the Scarecrows song feels so tapped on at times.
Think I forgot to post this here.
Originally, after Zelda and Impa flee the castle on horseback, and Ganondorf rides after them and talks to you, Link originally had dialogue options after Ganondorf asked which way they went.
You have three options:
My tweet is slightly incorrect; the first two lines are how he would respond if you said "How should I know?", the last line is how he would respond if you gave him a direction.
I do like how the first response has some aggressiveness. Reminds me of how in BOTW they made the dialogue options really fun.
Originally, after Zelda and Impa flee the castle on horseback, and Ganondorf rides after them and talks to you, Link originally had dialogue options after Ganondorf asked which way they went.
You have three options:
My tweet is slightly incorrect; the first two lines are how he would respond if you said "How should I know?", the last line is how he would respond if you gave him a direction.
I do like how the first response has some aggressiveness. Reminds me of how in BOTW they made the dialogue options really fun.
Bit of a tangent - who was the original director for Twilight Princess? Was it Miyamoto or another prominent staffer?
Shame on me for missing this video post.
It's amazing that a dungeon that was designed to almost-completion like this was canned and re-designed. It definitely looks cool, but the decision to transition to a more underground dungeon was a smart move.
Small keys in a child dungeon? That's fresh.
Those strange double-doors; did we always know about those? Link opens the door and walks through them rather naturally, no clipping.
I like how the higher you get in the tree, the brighter it gets.
Any signs of the Ice Cavern, Bottom of the Well, or Gerudo Training Grounds? Always thought it was interesting OoT had these mini-dungeons when most other Zeldas don't to this extent and curious if they were repurposed from scrapped dungeon designs
From what I can find between the handful of people that are going through the files, nothing yet. A lot of other stuff is being discovered, but nothing about these three in specific.
Have we fully debunked this? Like, entering the Temple of Light never existed in the beta prototype?
Have we fully debunked this? Like, entering the Temple of Light never existed in the beta prototype?
I feel like this has always been debunked, but I believe based on what was found here even back at this point there was no Temple of Light so it's unlikely it was ever planned to be in the game.
I want to mention that "Hebra Mountain" does not originate in the Zelda series with this build. Hebra Mountain is the name of Death Mountain in the Light World in the Japanese version of A Link to the Past (Death Mountain was the name of the mountain in the Dark World only). What this leak suggests is that they were going to preserve that continuity originally before settling back on the Death Mountain name.
according to this build, zelda is the one that gives link the light medallion, so there was likely never a plan for a temple of lightHave we fully debunked this? Like, entering the Temple of Light never existed in the beta prototype?
Ah I see. Thanks for the clarifications!
Mario 64 was the last game Miyamoto directed (ignoring his lone "Supervising Director" role on Star Fox Zero). Him being front-and-center in interviews has been imprinted into people's collective consciousness to much to label him as default-director pick for too many games. Though obviously his producer hands were extremely hands-on for his "key" games under EAD.
presumably any one of these sub directors could have been the OG director:
Sub-Directors
Makoto Miyanaga
Yoichi Yamada
Shinichi Ikematsu
Daiji Imai
Koji Kitagawa
Hiromasa Shikata
Kentaro Tominaga
just saying but that screen looks fake af with the photoshopped UI (way too high rez compared to the muddy in game and text)Have we fully debunked this? Like, entering the Temple of Light never existed in the beta prototype?
