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Deleted member 22490

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Oct 28, 2017
9,237
Copied from the Warren thread:

This is the most important issue for me right now because I have $90,000 in student debt after graduating from a state school. Having never wasted/retaken college credits, having transferred in some credits from a community college, and having graduated with honors, I still never got sufficient scholarships to cover my $12k/yr tuition plus living expenses as an engineering student. My loan payments are over $700/month a time minimum. I don't know when I will pay this all off. This cancellation means the world to me, and the free public college is important for my future children.

Just glancing over the other thread, many have student loan debt in the tens of thousands. Overall, the country has 1.5 trillion in student loan debt and its only going to get worse.

To help avert this crisis, some suggest that we forgive or cancel student loan debt. This is something that Elizabeth Warren is proposing:

The first step in addressing this crisis is to deal head-on with the outstanding debt that is weighing down millions of families and should never have been required in the first place. That's why I'm calling for something truly transformational — the cancellation of up to $50,000 in student loan debt for 42 million Americans.

My plan for broad student debt cancellation will:

  • Cancel debt for more than 95% of the nearly 45 million Americans with student loan debt;
  • Wipe out student loan debt entirely for more than 75% of the Americans with that debt;
  • Substantially increase wealth for Black and Latinx families and reduce both the Black-White and Latinx-White wealth gaps; and
  • Provide an enormous middle-class stimulus that will boost economic growth, increase home purchases, and fuel a new wave of small business formation.
Once we've cleared out the debt that's holding down an entire generation of Americans, we must ensure that we never have another student debt crisis again. We can do that by recognizing that a public college education is like a public K-12 education — a basic public good that should be available to everyone with free tuition and zero debt at graduation. My plan for universal free college will:

  • Give every American the opportunity to attend a two-year or four-year public college without paying a dime in tuition or fees;
  • Make free college truly universal — not just in theory, but in practice — by making higher education of all kinds more inclusive and available to every single American, especially lower-income, Black, and Latinx students, without the need to take on debt to cover costs.
Some people will say we can't afford this plan. That's nonsense. The entire cost of my broad debt cancellation plan and universal free college is more than covered by my Ultra-Millionaire Tax — a 2% annual tax on the 75,000 families with $50 million or more in wealth. For decades, we've allowed the wealthy to pay less while burying tens of millions of working Americans in education debt. It's time to make different choices.

https://medium.com/@teamwarren/im-c...blic-college-and-cancellation-of-a246cd0f910f
 

Deleted member 2620

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Oct 25, 2017
4,491
It was discouraging to see so many debt-free posters express that they feel like they're losing something by others having their debt cancelled. I'm very lucky in that this wouldn't personally affect me, but it would be wonderful to see.
 

Deleted member 12224

user requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
6,113
Before this gets derailed with mischaracterizing of criticism...

Criticizing the proposal's lack of assistance for those who paid off mountains of student debt doesn't mean someone is against the proposal. One can support a policy proposal while levying a criticism and recommending a method of improving it.

It's a good idea! It can be better! It should be better! If passed as proposed, without being better, it's significantly better than what currently exists!

Recommending an improvement is not an instance of "making perfect the enemy of good", let alone "fuck you got mine" or whatever other mindless, childish retort one wants to invoke to impugn the character of people putting forth a criticism the proposal.
 
Oct 25, 2017
21,460
Sweden
hell yes

i heard warren had a good proposal

here is how student loan forgiveness would affect the economy at large, according to a report that looked into the atter

Our simulations show that student debt cancellation results in an increase in GDP, a decrease in the average unemployment rate, and little to no inflationary pressure
over the 10-year horizon, while interest rates increase only modestly. (Results reported here are from the two Fair model simulaions and the Moody's simulation with the Fed's interest rate reaction function turned off.) Estimates for new GDP range from $861 billion to $1,083 billion over the entire period, or on average between $86 billion and $108 billion per year. This increase is accompanied by new job creation that peaks at 1.18 to 1.55 million additional new jobs per year, or 50 to 70 percent of the entire job creation for a typical year in the 2010–15 economic expansion. Average unemployment rates over the period are reduced by between 0.22 and 0.36 percentage points. The predicted effects of the cancellation on inflation are negligible, with a peak of 0.3 percentage points of additional inflation in the Fair model and negative pressure on inflation in later years, and no more than 0.09 percentage points of additional inflation in the Moody's model over the entire period
the bolded is how even people without student loan debt, or people how already paid off their student loan debt, would benefit from debt forgiveness proposals
 

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,085
It would be great for society, so it will be fought tooth and nail until everyone ends up with a Denny's coupon as a compromise.
 

Prophet Five

Pundeath Knight
Member
Nov 11, 2017
7,692
The Great Dark Beyond
It was discouraging to see so many debt-free posters express that they're feel like they're losing something by others having their debt cancelled. I'm very lucky in that this wouldn't personally affect me, but it would be wonderful to see.

Yeah seriously. I gain absolutely nothing from this concept but it helps so many. Forgive away. People shouldn't be punished for pursuing education.
 

Deleted member 8860

User requested account closure
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Oct 26, 2017
6,525
Some background on the problem:


The government should absolutely take steps to reign in the cost of higher education (by clamping down on loans, increasing grants, and promoting technical colleges, among other tasks).

Note, however, that other programs that could be funded for the less than the cost of loan pay-off would be more beneficial in both lifting people out of poverty and expanding the economy, such as housing and supporting the homeless, free preschool/childcare for poor families, and paid parental leave.

Here are a few relevant studies:
http://isr.unm.edu/reports/2016/cit...g-home-initiative-cost-study-report-final.pdf

https://www.americanprogress.org/is.../the-cost-of-inaction-on-universal-preschool/

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/the-economics-of-paid-parental-leave/

Warren's proposal to provide $50K bailouts to people making $100K/year is wasteful in the extreme. It's also misleading to call this "canceling" the loans -- the lenders will be paid in full at the cost of $1trillion+ taxpayer dollars.
 
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Znazzy

Member
Aug 27, 2018
1,241
Whoever promises to erase my student loan debt has my vote. People shouldn't be burdened with paying off loans for the rest of their lives to further their education and contribute to society. Especially those of us who have advanced degrees.
 

Dartastic

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,779
I'm 34. I think it's great that Senator Warren proposed that, but I'm not sure it goes far enough. I'm partially speaking out of self interest here, because I have around 95k of student loans. However, the larger problem that I'm not seeing discussed are predatory interest rates. My grad loans that I took out through the government have 6.8 and 7.8% interest rates. They've contributed significantly to the amount of debt that I'm in, and I haven't seen any discussions on reducing federal loan interest rates. It makes it really, really difficult to pay down my debt. I'm basically hoping for loan forgiveness at this point.
 

Furiousone

Member
Oct 29, 2017
554
For me the challenge is that some of my student debt went on my credit card....does that get reimbursed as well? IMO there are just too many complexities to keep this from likely happening.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
I'm 100% on board with the concept and what is being proposed. I wish it would go beyond 50k, but that alone would be a huge burden taken off of millions of struggling people.
 

Chaos Legion

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,919
Won't this create an even further divide between public and private colleges? Or am I thinking about it to cynically.
 
Oct 25, 2017
149
No thanks on forgiving student debt. Am of the mindset that students should not be a profit center and be allowed to refinance at a lower rate in the 2-3% range
 

Deleted member 32374

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Nov 10, 2017
8,460
Before this gets derailed with mischaracterizing of criticism...

Criticizing the proposal's lack of assistance for those who paid off mountains of student debt doesn't mean someone is against the proposal. One can support a policy proposal while levying a criticism and recommending a method of improving it.

It's a good idea! It can be better! It should be better! If passed as proposed, without being better, it's significantly better than what currently exists!

Recommending an improvement is not an instance of "making perfect the enemy of good", let alone "fuck you got mine" or whatever other mindless, childish retort one wants to invoke to impugn the character of people putting forth a criticism the proposal.

Agreed.

I read the medium article from the campaign.

Include something for the money repaid, whether in part or in full. That wasn't in the article.

It needs to be.
 

hurlex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,143
Forgiving student loan debt seems like a no brainier to me (and this is coming with someone who was fortunate enough to never have any student debt).

I also think we should have a way to make tuition free but I think we have to tread carefully there to make sure colleges don't just take in a ton of money. I feel like part of the reason college tuition is so expensive because they know students will pay it because they have easy access to loans.
 

Genesius

Member
Nov 2, 2018
15,532
Yeah we are over $100k in student loan debt, which we decided to take on under the public service forgiveness program that Devos and Trump now want to get rid of. This might seal the deal for me for Warren if she can follow through.

Basically, if Democrats take back the Senate and the Presidency and don't start immediately making big substantial change to keep the last three years from ever happening again, we need to burn it all down and start over.
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
21,187
I'm 34. I think it's great that Senator Warren proposed that, but I'm not sure it goes far enough. I'm partially speaking out of self interest here, because I have around 95k of student loans. However, the larger problem that I'm not seeing discussed are predatory interest rates. My grad loans that I took out through the government have 6.8 and 7.8% interest rates. They've contributed significantly to the amount of debt that I'm in, and I haven't seen any discussions on reducing federal loan interest rates. It makes it really, really difficult to pay down my debt. I'm basically hoping for loan forgiveness at this point.

Those interest rates don't seem that predatory, though. Did you know what the rates were going to be, approximately, or did they go up by the time you graduated?

I kind of feel like there should be high school courses not just on interest rates for student loans, but stuff like credit cards, etc. Not saying you didn't know what you were getting into, but I'd say most high school seniors aren't really aware of what a significant chunk of money that is to pay off with interest.
 
Oct 27, 2017
16,580
Fuck that shit, the corporations need it more!

It's pretty pathetic that we'll give tax breaks and cuts for corporations but won't forgive loans for students, when the latter would obviously help the economy.
 

GameShrink

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,680
As posted in the 2020 thread: I'd prefer that the money from Warren's millionaire tax go to paid parental leave.

Saving money on college is far easier than saving money on childcare. You can go to a local/community school for your first two years, attend a state university, commute from home instead of dorming, etc.
 

BocoDragon

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,207
I mean as a student loan holder I'll take it. I'm not generally into more government socialized programs that will increase taxes and spending, but when college is mandatory for participation in most areas of society we aren't exactly in a state of nature here. Asking individuals to get into debt for something they have to do (if they want to do anything productive with their lives that isn't a trade) is already unjust. If it's mandatory, we should all pay for it equally as a society.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Whoever promises to erase my student loan debt has my vote. People shouldn't be burdened with paying off loans for the rest of their lives to further their education and contribute to society. Especially those of us who have advanced degrees.
Honestly, this. I know so many people being crushed by it. There was a huge convergence of factors that really screwed a lot of people during a certain window and now it could be better, but people are still being told they have to go to college in the same moment funding is being slashed and costs are rising.
 

Terminus

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,874
Before this gets derailed with mischaracterizing of criticism...

Criticizing the proposal's lack of assistance for those who paid off mountains of student debt doesn't mean someone is against the proposal. One can support a policy proposal while levying a criticism and recommending a method of improving it.

It's a good idea! It can be better! It should be better! If passed as proposed, without being better, it's significantly better than what currently exists!

Recommending an improvement is not an instance of "making perfect the enemy of good", let alone "fuck you got mine" or whatever other mindless, childish retort one wants to invoke to impugn the character of people putting forth a criticism the proposal.

Fucking thank you.
 

flyingman

Banned
Apr 16, 2019
1,678
I still dont get why a stupid concept like "student loans" exist in USA . Why arent most goverment colleges free? I mean i can understand some private colleges/universities being not but
 

Vamphuntr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,301
Forgiving student loan debt seems like a no brainier to me (and this is coming with someone who was fortunate enough to never have any student debt).

I also think we should have a way to make tuition free but I think we have to tread carefully there to make sure colleges don't just take in a ton of money. I feel like part of the reason college tuition is so expensive because they know students will pay it because they have easy access to loans.

Yup. Free tuition would be the way to go but like everything else it needs regulation around it to prevent abuse both from college and students. I'm in Canada and my students loans were much lower and I paid all of it but I understand it's totally impossible for some to live decently and pay them off at the same time. The US seems ridiculous. How can you go 90k in debt for college in America? This is criminal and shouldn't be allowed.

We kind of need an education reform in the west.
 

Nothing Loud

Literally Cinderella
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,981
As posted in the 2020 thread: I'd prefer that the money from Warren's millionaire tax go to paid parental leave.

Saving money on college is far easier than saving money on childcare. You can go to a local/community school for your first two years, attend a state university, commute from home instead of dorming, etc.

She may not have announced a federal paid parental leave yet, but she started off her campaign with a plan for universal childcare, acknowledging it's another major hurdle in work and education for many Americans, citing the only reason she got through law school was because she had an aunt who could watch her child while she was in class and working.

Also a lot of state schools are capacity constrained for competitive, in-demand majors like engineering, and they are getting pickier and pickier about prerequisites. The days where you could just stay home and do community college classes for 2 years and then lackadaisically transfer into the nearest university to finish up in 4 semesters are diminishing. Some departments won't accept transfer students or transfer credits, or won't consider you for admission unless you've done your prerequisites at the home university as a "pre-major." My alma mater is doing this with engineering. My upcoming graduate school (UW) is also seeing this problem. Community college kids don't stand a chance at getting admitted in my home department (chemical engineering), and the kinds of courses you can knock out at a community greatly vary (some towns barely even have community college let alones one that offer a variety of classes), and for the most part, are a drop in the bucket for some degree plans (like mine), which was over 140 credit hours.
 
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Deleted member 2171

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Oct 25, 2017
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I still dont get why a stupid concept like "student loans" exist in USA . Why arent most goverment colleges free? I mean i can understand some private colleges/universities being not but

A lot of them used to be. Republicans gutted a lot of those systems and programs in their quest to cut taxes over the latter part of the last century.
 

Dekim

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,301
If you forgive student loan debt, won't you just be setting yourself up for a huge tax bill the next tax year? I think the IRS consider whatever amount of debt forgiven to be income. You'll still have a debt, instead it will be with the IRS instead of your bank or the Dept of Education.
 

Dartastic

One Winged Slayer
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Oct 25, 2017
3,779
Those interest rates don't seem that predatory, though. Did you know what the rates were going to be, approximately, or did they go up by the time you graduated?

I kind of feel like there should be high school courses not just on interest rates for student loans, but stuff like credit cards, etc. Not saying you didn't know what you were getting into, but I'd say most high school seniors aren't really aware of what a significant chunk of money that is to pay off with interest.
I mean, I know they're not "predatory" rates in the normal payday loan sort of way, but they are very high for the type of debt that is accrued. I had higher expectations about my ability to earn after completing grad school, and I was wrong about that. I also had issues finding work after I graduated in 2012, which lead to me deferring some of my debt due to necessity which increased the total debt load due to interest.
 

SonicThrust

Banned
Nov 8, 2018
61
It's really would be best to get ahead of it rather than wait for the next financial disaster that forces the government to deal with it.

I've been struggling to dodge it ever since graduating in engineering as every job is only a contract position that grants no stability anymore to even look at the 40k-ish loan that threatens to default every year or so.

If help doesn't come then it does make a more accelerationist position far more appealing as the debt spiral doesn't really end unless someone is fortunate or privileged enough to escape or never fall into to it in the first place.
 

captmcblack

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,065
I have no student loan debt...but this would be one of the best things that could happen to generations of financially hamstrung young people.

We see all those articles about how Millennials and Gen Z aren't buying homes, aren't buying cars, aren't buying as much stuff, aren't going to restaurants, aren't having kids, etc.

You see articles about STEM studies being still limited to certain demographics. You want to change things like this? Forgive college debts and make education affordable again.
 

lt519

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,064
If you forgive student loan debt, won't you just be setting yourself up for a huge tax bill the next tax year? I think the IRS consider whatever amount of debt forgiven to be income.

They could do it tax-free. The Public Service Loan Forgiveness program is not considered income whereas the general loan forgiveness after 20 years is taxed as income. So they could do either. But in this case it makes no sense to tax it, nobody could afford the forgiveness!
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
21,187
If you forgive student loan debt, won't you just be setting yourself up for a huge tax bill the next tax year? I think the IRS consider whatever amount of debt forgiven to be income. You'll still have a debt, instead it will be with the IRS instead of your bank or the Dept of Education.
While this thread is not specifically about her proposal, her proposal calls for it to be non taxable.
 

Beren

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,520
Yes, please.

I would also appreciate an addition that aids people that have already paid off a lot of their loan(s).
 
Oct 29, 2017
5,354
Before this gets derailed with mischaracterizing of criticism...

Criticizing the proposal's lack of assistance for those who paid off mountains of student debt doesn't mean someone is against the proposal. One can support a policy proposal while levying a criticism and recommending a method of improving it.

It's a good idea! It can be better! It should be better! If passed as proposed, without being better, it's significantly better than what currently exists!

Recommending an improvement is not an instance of "making perfect the enemy of good", let alone "fuck you got mine" or whatever other mindless, childish retort one wants to invoke to impugn the character of people putting forth a criticism the proposal.

Plenty of posters in the previous thread weren't making a recommendation, they were outright whining that they were being "punished" for "being responsible" for paying off their debt. It wasn't coming from good faith, it was just pure salt.

Student loan forgiveness is predicated on the notion that the person cannot pay off the loan. If you pay it off, you have the ability to do so, and thus are in a greater economic position than someone who has debt, can't pay it off, and interest is drowning them under increasing amounts of loans. If you can pay off loans you get a leg-up in more ways than "I paid off my loans".
 

shnurgleton

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,864
Boston
poor student loans, they know what they did, it's time for us to lay off

also, I'm extremely lucky and didn't have to deal with student loans as much as other people. every day I check my privilege in the mirror
 

reKon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,736
Now that we're back, here was what I was going to post in the locked thread:

I've gone through the struggles of being broke as shit during College:

- Having a couple of semesters using applying for and using a bridge card because I didn't have enough money to buy food for myself.
- Asking a roommate to borrow money (I don't remember the amount, but I think it was a few hundred or so). I was stressed out and disgusted that this it came down to me having this be my only option since couldn't get help from my mom or older sister
- Working in the school cafe job while attending full time (luckily the hours were very flexible)
- Buying cheap as shit food the majority of the time while at apartment (probably not too healthy eating during this period)

While in school I moved on to a better job while attending which lead to an even better job as a grad assistant, which really benefited me because it helped pay for some of my masters program.

Through all my schooling, I got to around 80K of student loan debt.

Not going to get into details about loans, but there's some fucked up family shit involved, which resulted in me not even able to use my loan money towards my OWN tuition. This amount represented 25K of my total debt. Ever since graduating, student loan debt has been my focus more than anything because from the beginning I understood the time value of money and I hated giving free money in interest when I had the opportunity not to.

With all that said, I hope that something positive comes out of it and millions of Americans do receive some sort of significant relief. For society to be better place, this "got mine" attitude has to be wiped out.

I'm proud to say that I'm done to 20K of debt left from the 80K and should be able to pay it off in a year in a half (I'm more focused on getting my nest egg to a certain level first because time is important here). I care little whether I get any sort of reimbursement for what I currently owe in student debt or anything I've paid in the past. I already have a plan going forward, I'm already making good money, and there are millions of people are even more fucked than I was that didn't deserve this.

Americans should be able not have to go broke to obtain a valuable education. The more educated our society the better off we are all as whole. I also hope this gives more people an opportunity to gain financial literacy to they can understand how important it is to invest in Company's that grow over time and benefit the individual from their ownership. Even if it's a small amount, the time value of money concept is so important.
 

Nothing Loud

Literally Cinderella
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,981
I have no student loan debt...but this would be one of the best things that could happen to generations of financially hamstrung young people.

We see all those articles about how Millennials and Gen Z aren't buying homes, aren't buying cars, aren't buying as much stuff, aren't going to restaurants, aren't having kids, etc.

You see articles about STEM studies being still limited to certain demographics. You want to change things like this? Forgive college debts and make education affordable again.

This would be me! I may not buy a home or have kids until I'm 40. Simply can't afford it until my debt is lower and my income is higher. Compared to the boomer and gen X generation that was buying homes in their teens/early 20s, that's a huge economic generational difference!
 

El_TigroX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,212
New York, NY
Plenty of posters in the previous thread weren't making a recommendation, they were outright whining that they were being "punished" for "being responsible" for paying off their debt. It wasn't coming from good faith, it was just pure salt.

Student loan forgiveness is predicated on the notion that the person cannot pay off the loan. If you pay it off, you have the ability to do so, and thus are in a greater economic position than someone who has debt, can't pay it off, and interest is drowning them under increasing amounts of loans. If you can pay off loans you get a leg-up in more ways than "I paid off my loans".
I think you make a gross leap in judgment where you believe that the people that paid off their debt had a leg up. A lot of people suffered, scrimped, deferred for a LOT of years to balance their debt repayment and attempting to move forward in life. I will respect your desire to free yourself from debt, when you also respect that a lot of people struggled before you. Understand the decisions and deferrals we made before you dismiss, hand waive and think we all had it easy street.
 

Terminus

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,874
Plenty of posters in the previous thread weren't making a recommendation, they were outright whining that they were being "punished" for "being responsible" for paying off their debt. It wasn't coming from good faith, it was just pure salt.

Student loan forgiveness is predicated on the notion that the person cannot pay off the loan. If you pay it off, you have the ability to do so, and thus are in a greater economic position than someone who has debt, can't pay it off, and interest is drowning them under increasing amounts of loans. If you can pay off loans you get a leg-up in more ways than "I paid off my loans".

I haven't read the other thread, but indignation and anger are perfectly understandable responses to potentially being told "you just spent the past decade and a half of your life throwing money into a hole for ultimately no reason." Any policy proposal for addressing the student loan crisis that doesn't incorporate an aid component for the massive contingent of people whose finances were hamstrung for years by crushing debt is unacceptable.