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Let’s talk about the air dash in Guilty Gear Strive
- Thread starter Carpathia
- Start date
There's nothing really good in MvC3 that's braindead, lol.
Except Hidden Missiles.
In motion it looks really bad, off-putting even, but will have to wait for more impressions.
Almost. Dark Phoenix is in the game too.
This would probably be easier for some to accept if the game was confirmed to have rollback netcode
Imagine all this effort to appeal to new/casual players and the majority of that group dropping the game in two weeks because of the usual bad netcode
Imagine all this effort to appeal to new/casual players and the majority of that group dropping the game in two weeks because of the usual bad netcode
It is. A lot of people just hate the idea of change, and GG absolutely needed to make all these type of changes to survive as a franchise moving forward imo.
If a franchise needs to change itself entirely to "survive" then maybe it just shouldn't exist anymore. It's not going to get a casual following and it's alienating the entire playerbase that wants to play it.
Great recipe for success.
Give the game a chance for crying out loud, it's not even out yet.
There is change and then there is radically changing the very core of a series and to make matters worse reading Daisuke's interviews he is so extremely misguided as well with these changes and why he wants them
Me giving it a chance and this game doing everything I said aren't mutually exclusive. It could be a great fighting game and have nothing that I love about Guilty Gear at all.
I really hate that valid complaints about shit is just thrown away as "afraid of change." I fucking love fighting games. I own, like, all of them. I'm not afraid of change. I dislike stupid changes to appeal to people who were never going to play a game leaving the rest of us with an inferior product. Something that has been happening to fighting games for awhile now.
Why do we keep parroting this? Concerns about the gameplay all seem very legitimate and founded upon some form of logic even if not complete.
Because a lot of people just want to eat the shit that devs feed us, as if getting fighting games is some rare and magical thing, and if we get mad, maybe we won't get anymore, so we should be happy that we're getting anything at all.
idk how they're better for getting in when 6Ps are still a thing
survive under what metric, sales? they said the same thing about the changes made for xrd, and it didn't really serve them any better. now they're doing the exact same thing here but hoping for different results.
im not saying this as being against changes either, i just find it very myopic of devs when they insist the way to more sales and more casuals is primarily through the gameplay
I mean, if anyone can decide what makes Guilty Gear "Guilty Gear" it's the man who literally made Guilty Gear
MK11 added some of the most difficult mechanics from other fighting games. Different kinds of combo breakers. Different wake up timings. A system that enhances very specific moves under very specific conditions that you can only use once per match. Two different kinds of meter. Three different variations for each character with different specials. Is the #5 best selling game of 2019.
And people are out here saying that we need to dumb shit down to appeal to casuals so that a franchise can survive.
Nothing and a game I don't want are the same thing. And yeah, I stand by saying that if a game needs to abandon its core gameplay in order to chase after an imaginary fanbase, then it's probably run its course.
Ya'll welcome to like it, naturally, though. Just like I'm welcome to dislike it.
So it won't matter one bit.
Obligatory:
https://theoptionselect.com/2019/09...s-to-simplify-everything-besides-online-play/
And people are out here saying that we need to dumb shit down to appeal to casuals so that a franchise can survive.
Nothing and a game I don't want are the same thing. And yeah, I stand by saying that if a game needs to abandon its core gameplay in order to chase after an imaginary fanbase, then it's probably run its course.
Ya'll welcome to like it, naturally, though. Just like I'm welcome to dislike it.
So it won't matter one bit.
Obligatory:
https://theoptionselect.com/2019/09...s-to-simplify-everything-besides-online-play/
scrubquotes bait the thread
sign me the fuck up
here's to failing to 6ping/2hsing (b/c that's apparently turned into dbfz 2h?) every single airdash when they should be extremely and obviously reactable and dropping the game because rashid's v-skill 2 is too cheap and braindead
sign me the fuck up
here's to failing to 6ping/2hsing (b/c that's apparently turned into dbfz 2h?) every single airdash when they should be extremely and obviously reactable and dropping the game because rashid's v-skill 2 is too cheap and braindead
Franchises do that all the time. It's a thing
And maybe it does attract, it does happen. Look at the jump from persona 2 to 3. Fire emblem, things like that.
All that said personally I dont think its gonna change much. My opinions on guilty gear and what it needs to gain a casual audience are the same as dark stalkers and rival schools. You gonna have to change the aesthetic and character designs.
And if you do that too much, is it even gg at that point? I cant answer that question, that's up to development. All I'm going to say if it came to that, arc sys would do better to start a new ip.
But again I dont think making things slower gonna fix gg character designs for most folks
MK sells because of singleplayer content and because it's a wildly popular IP. 90% of players will never play the game beyond learning a few specials and button mashing, those players are never going to actually worry about those mechanics you listed.
I think the point he's trying to make is that the most successful FG franchise realizes that modifying the gameplay systems wildly and "casualizing" isn't at all the key to great sales, it's being a complete package to accommodate players that won't give a hoot about those mechanics either way.
It's not "hating the idea of change" when most recent ASW games go towards simplifying everything (BBTAG, DBFZ, GBVS...). GG needed some fat to be trimmed away, but there's a difference there.
And the most important thing is: people are giving it a chance. ASW asked for feedback at ArcRevo and they're showing they're completely ignoring it.
I can already bet that there'll be some feedback again at EVO Japan, it'll be ignored again, maybe get worse (like here where people enjoyed the air dashes in the previous build), and you (or some other people) will complain that people aren't giving it a chance. When ASW is asking for feedback.
Rinse and repeat for the next event.
You really need to check yourself if you think those are the reasons why MK11 was/ is successful.
It's funny how people are proving my point by NOT getting it, lmao.
RIP every successful reboot ever. RE4... damn they really should have just killed that franchise instead of changing anything...
Because most characters 6ps already aren't the best for AAing air dashes unless you're already standing at the distance where the air dash start to come down. And the player that's air dashing can control when that happens now.
Well too bad then as GG to Daisuke seems to be literally just the characters as he has no problem gutting everything in terms of mechanics.
Systems, speed, mobility, unique characters with lots of options, cool combos, etc. apparently non of this makes GG
He's just saying that MK11 didn't become less popular with those changes. Not that it became more popular thanks to those.
You cant compare mortal kombat to guilty gear, mortal kombat is a sustaniable franchise guilty gear isnt not.
Yeah, I guess it's unfair to compare MK, a franchise that has remained true to its gameplay, adding things to make it interesting for hardcore players and adding things to keep casuals interested, even going as far as revamping its netcode so that it's some of the best in the business to Guilty Gear. A franchise that is now doing none of that.
There's surely nothing other fighting games can learn from MK's method of approaching gameplay, and a videogame package as a whole. Surely not. Let's just ignore this aspect of the game to excuse Japanese devs that are doing the opposite.
I am really curious as to why developers do this. Has it ever worked? Like, is there a single example of a game that has gained popularity by simplifying the mechanics/gameplay to successfully appeal to a broader audience?
If easy and slow = popular, Fantasy Strike should be huge (I really enjoy the game, but it is pretty much dead by now).
In my mind, a casual player is someone who never bothers to learn the ins and outs of the game and thus does not care about the details of how gameplay works. I say this as someone who had a ton of fun playing GG on PS2 as a complete casual. Why try to adjust parameters I don't care about? Online is far more important. I would much rather have a game that appeals to the hardcore crowd but with good online. Slower dashes are not going to prevent people from crushing me online.
If easy and slow = popular, Fantasy Strike should be huge (I really enjoy the game, but it is pretty much dead by now).
In my mind, a casual player is someone who never bothers to learn the ins and outs of the game and thus does not care about the details of how gameplay works. I say this as someone who had a ton of fun playing GG on PS2 as a complete casual. Why try to adjust parameters I don't care about? Online is far more important. I would much rather have a game that appeals to the hardcore crowd but with good online. Slower dashes are not going to prevent people from crushing me online.
"The game could sell more copies" is a weird defense against criticism. The amount of copies a game sells has little to no bearing on my level of happiness (even for mp games I just need an active enough one, not a highly popular one).
If they make a lesser game than Guilty Gear Accent Core Plus R or Rev 2 but sold exponentially more it's not going to make me happier just because they suddenly made it big time with the IP.
I would still want a lot of the core aspects I enjoy Guilty Gear for to still be there.
If they make a lesser game than Guilty Gear Accent Core Plus R or Rev 2 but sold exponentially more it's not going to make me happier just because they suddenly made it big time with the IP.
I would still want a lot of the core aspects I enjoy Guilty Gear for to still be there.
Content and presentation are the real true things that attract casual players, but for some reason devs really think that if they remove high execution stuff, that casual players didnt even knew it was there, they will attract more people. It's so frustrating tbh.
Exactly.
I was actually interested in the game after seeing that amazing trailer and had the hardcore crowd been excited I would have been really hyped for the game. I think appealing to the hardcore crowd is super important to build hype. For someone who is a casual, the details of what we are hyping are not really important.
All this said, I will probably buy the game anyway, I still think it looks great. But I might wait until I can get it for a discount. Also, it is weird to see this situation from a casual point of view.
in gg's defense it's not like they didn't put in work for the single player content, even had an extensive tutorial to boot
but they're unable to get enough folks beyond the hardcore base who are already invested in their lore to give a shit about any of it
i said this before but if they're chasing the kinda casuals who pick up tekken or mk, then yeah it's probably a lost cause... but it's not as if games with an anime aesthetic can't sell. i think they need to do a better job of using their universe to cultivate a following outside of the fighting game itself, they could be doing something like what blizzard does by releasing animation shorts around their characters - and because it's asw you KNOW it will look cool. maybe this could help to get people attached to their characters.
It is also dead in Japan basically but would anyone say that the core of MK is not in the game. The Japan comment is that it's this successful without the country....