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Gearkeeper 8A

Member
Oct 27, 2017
617
Yeah, I guess it's unfair to compare MK, a franchise that has remained true to its gameplay
Mortal kombat has it few weird phases like the 64 and ps2 era, where they didnt get an working gameplay formula jumped between genres or 2d vs 3d, guilty gear is in this phase now, all the big games goes with this phase because games are expensive to make and the original audience is enough to sustain them.
 

skillzilla81

Self-requested temporary ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,043
Mortal kombat has it few weird phases like the 64 and ps2 era, where they didnt get an working gameplay formula jumped between genres or 2d vs 3d, guilty gear is in this phase now, all the big games goes with this phase because games are expensive to make and the original audience is enough to sustain them.

Okay.
 

Kalmakov

user requested ban
Banned
Sep 10, 2019
1,300
Well too bad then as GG to Daisuke seems to be literally just the characters as he has no problem gutting everything in terms of mechanics.
Well yeah

Guilty Gear doesn't automatically become not Guilty Gear because of gameplay tweaks.

Guilty Gear is the characters, aesthetics, music, etc.
 

Kalmakov

user requested ban
Banned
Sep 10, 2019
1,300
I'm starting to get the impression that some of y'all unironically thought Combofiend saying "characters are just functions" was a legit point.
 
Oct 26, 2017
558
Well yeah

Guilty Gear doesn't automatically become not Guilty Gear because of gameplay tweaks.

Guilty Gear is the characters, aesthetics, music, etc.

This is my take, as well.

I'm excited for the game regardless of how different or "not Guilty Gear" it is.

If Guilty Gear was just about that, people would like Isuka and Overture.

People DO. Regardless, nobody brings up Guilty Gear and thinks of these games first.
 

Sanox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,557
I'm starting to get the impression that some of y'all unironically thought Combofiend saying "characters are just functions" was a legit point.

No but the opposite isn't the way to go either. If Millia is massively gimped I am not going to be happy just because the game happens to have a character named Millia even though she can't do anything that made the character fun

Guilty Gear doesn't automatically become not Guilty Gear because of gameplay tweaks.

What is happening with Strive isn't simply gameplay tweaks
 

QisTopTier

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,717
If this sticks I can't wait to fucking 2HS the universe with Ky this is a bad change.
 
Jun 23, 2019
6,446
Lol good lord. Adapt and overcome. So many of y'all are so used to being spoon fed and given what you want, that the moment something is different, you all freak out.
 

Ferrio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,075
Looks fine to me, I don't need every game in this series to play like the previous.
 

skillzilla81

Self-requested temporary ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,043
I'm starting to get the impression that some of y'all unironically thought Combofiend saying "characters are just functions" was a legit point.

It was. And those functions are being taken away by gameplay mechanics and system changes.

Looks fine to me, I don't need every game in this series to play like the previous.

Sure. On the other hand, I play tons of fighters and like when a game maintains its identity, so that it doesn't bleed into everything else. Also, ASW has BBTag, Granblue, and DBFZ that are all leaning in on simplifying shit. Really don't see the point in doing it with yet another one of their franchises.
 

Yunyo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,824
I don't mind the changing up of things. If they're serious about the changes they said they were going to make, then airdashing is on the table too.
 

QisTopTier

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,717
Lol good lord. Adapt and overcome. So many of y'all are so used to being spoon fed and given what you want, that the moment something is different, you all freak out.
This is a series with extremely potent anti airs to match the potent air movement, you tone down one the other starts to vastly outclass the other. I say this as someone who's main has some of the best in the game.

This is a horrible change
 
Jun 23, 2019
6,446
This is a series with extremely potent anti airs to match the potent air movement, you tone down one the other starts to vastly outclass the other. I say this as someone who's main has some of the best in the game.

This is a horrible change

They are going in a different direction. If they truly want the game to be easier for casuals, then slowing down airdash is a pretty smart move. It takes away the ability to hit people with IAD OHs and hit people with ridiculous mixups. Personally, I'm excited for the game and want to see the direction they go. I'm not already writing the game off because of one change. Arcsys have been doing this for years. They will make the game run accordingly with the airdash being slowed down.
I don't mind the changing up of things. If they're serious about the changes they said they were going to make, then airdashing is on the table too.

Exactly!
 

QisTopTier

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,717
They are going in a different direction. If they truly want the game to be easier for casuals, then slowing down airdash is a pretty smart move. It takes away the ability to hit people with IAD OHs and hit people with ridiculous mixups. Personally, I'm excited for the game and want to see the direction they go. I'm not already writing the game off because of one change. Arcsys have been doing this for years. They will make the game run accordingly with the airdash being slowed down.


Exactly!
The point is this effects high level play a fuck ton, it completely negates that aspect of it. You are supposed to make things easier to understand for casuals sure but you don't want to completely clip your showcase matches of high level play wings off.

Causals are not affected by instant air dash shit, casuals cant even do it half the time. How does a change that makes it easier for good players to stop things make things better for casuals too? This just gives them another thing that separates them further.

You see before someone could take the effort to learn to IAD and it would give them some sense of progression and growth a new strong tool and for the players that dont have the exact timing down the dash was still pretty good.

Now you just have this jank ass dash with a big IM DASHING sign that everyone with a lick of common sense will just AA this doesnt help new players this just makes the new players stand out more and be more vulnerable.

I swear no one actually thinks about this shit.
 

ggdeku

Member
Oct 26, 2017
758
The "stop getting mad over gameplay tweaks, you just hate change" is funny. It's like some people can't fathom others having issues with specific changes they are making.
Well yeah

Guilty Gear doesn't automatically become not Guilty Gear because of gameplay tweaks.

Guilty Gear is the characters, aesthetics, music, etc.
While of course, those are big elements, I'd actually argue that Guilty Gear's primary identity is driven by the gameplay of it's most popular entries, the XX and Xrd series. While I'm not an expert (I only started learning and playing Gear a lot within the past year) I believe GG's identity is based on fast, fluid movement, a gatling system that allows for combo experimentation and improv in neutral (air combos in general), strong air game and aerial mobility, and importance on oki and defense. Gear, to me, is about strong offensive options met with strong defensive options. I believe the type of fighting game GG has been in the XX and Xrd series is just as tied to its identity as the heavy metal aesthetic or Sol Badguy.

Strive is removing basically all of that. At least in the previous build, people could say "well the movement looks like Gear at least." But now we have no chip kills, drastically changed airdash utility, speed and timing, heavily restricted gatling system, no air combos, decrease emphasis on oki, no corner, heavily reduced utility of Faultless Defense (air blocking for free lol), reduced utility of Instant Block. I think it's very reasonable for fans of the series to be frustrated with the direction.

I only started learning GG in the past year, but these changes are removing a lot of the reason why I came to the game in the first place.
 
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oofouchugh

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,972
Night City
Don't worry about adapting to gameplay you don't like, don't play the game. The FGC has no obligation to play whatever shit gets released if it isn't fun to play for whatever reason. Are you gonna play any random single player game that has gameplay you don't like because its some legacy IP you used to be a fan of? Strive doesn't have to be identical to previous entries but its completely acceptable for the community to be disappointed over mechanics changes they don't like.

It isn't like supporting Strive supports any greater cause, not like this shit is gonna have rollback and the community has to put their money where their mouth is regarding complaints about netcode or anything.
 

TimeFire

Avenger
Nov 26, 2017
9,625
Brazil
This blows. I'm really upset about this. It's like the worst parts of DBFZ and SFV are seeping into Gear. The simplified and not at all freeform combos and slowing and dumbing things down at the expense of fun
 

skillzilla81

Self-requested temporary ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,043
The "stop getting mad over gameplay tweaks, you just hate change" is funny. It's like some people can't fathom others having issues with specific changes they are making.

While of course, those are big elements, I'd actually argue that what Guilty Gear's primary identity is driven by the gameplay of it's most popular entries, the XX and Xrd series. While I'm not an expert (I only started learning and playing Gear a lot within the past year) I believe GG's identity is based on fast, fluid movement, a gatling system that allows for combo experimentation and improv in neutral (air combos in general), strong air game and aerial mobility, and importance on oki and defense. Gear, to me, is about strong offensive options met with strong defensive options. I believe the type of fighting game GG has been in the XX and Xrd series is just as tied to its identity as the heavy metal aesthetic or Sol Badguy.

Strive is removing basically all of that. At least in the previous build, people could say "well the movement looks like Gear at least." But now we have no chip kills, drastically changed airdash utility, speed and timing, heavily restricted gatling system, no air combos, decrease emphasis on oki, no corner, heavily reduced utility of Faultless Defense (air blocking for free lol), reduced utility of Instant Block. I think it's very reasonable for fans of the series to be frustrated with the direction.

I only started learning GG in the past year, but these changes are removing a lot of the reason why I came to the game in the first place.


All of this. I was one of the people going, "Wait and see." in previous threads because at least the movement still looked like GG, but now they've taken that away (right now), and...welp, that's one of the biggest reasons I enjoyed the game, so now I'm on the fence with everybody else that didn't like what they were seeing.
 

QisTopTier

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,717
Uni is still the first and only series that got the make it casual friendly but have it be complex deep down right imo.

I hate that the only real lesson asw learned from it was that the tug of war thing is cool so they slamed it into bb
 

TimeFire

Avenger
Nov 26, 2017
9,625
Brazil
Uni is still the first and only series that got the make it casual friendly but have it be complex deep down right imo.

For sure. Shining beacon in this whole thing. Power Rangers is also pretty cool and has depth while not being boring to play if you're a casual

Worst part of it is that Strive is probably going to have a terrible netcode with no crossplay alongside it's dumbed down gameplay
 

Ciao

Member
Jun 14, 2018
4,854
Play Rev2 if you don't like Strive, the old games will still be there for you.
 
Jun 23, 2019
6,446
Play Rev2 if you don't like Strive, the old games will still be there for you.

This. I understand people have their gripes, but if you don't like it, don't play it and let it die on the vine. I'm just tired of people complaining when they don't get what they want and put their griefs behind, "You're dumbing down the game for veterans!" Well wouldn't a vet be able to adapt? Nobody in here has even played the game to even say to what extent the game can be pushed yet. It's whining for the sake of whining at this point.
 

QisTopTier

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,717
It's always an option. Hella old games are being kept alive by diehards.
Not really, I dont want just a diehard focus I want actual growth and support. I still play CvS2 from time to time but you can't tell me playing that is the same as games that get highlighted as the new current game.

There are people in this very thread that mentioned they just started up gg at rev 2 as recent as last year. Once the community stops showcasing the game the odds of that happening just shrinks and shrinks.

The community as a whole has to basically ignore the newer game and push the older game at events. aka melee for example.
 

skillzilla81

Self-requested temporary ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,043
If you're fine playing against the same few people over and over on the same old janky online

As opposed to the input delay Strive will have that'll have you seeking out discords for matches. lol

This. I understand people have their gripes, but if you don't like it, don't play it and let it die on the vine. I'm just tired of people complaining when they don't get what they want and put their griefs behind, "You're dumbing down the game for veterans!" Well wouldn't a vet be able to adapt? Nobody in here has even played the game to even say to what extent the game can be pushed yet. It's whining for the sake of whining at this point.

Do you think people are complaining because they can't adapt? lol.

The game will not be fun. Those people will not play. Casuals will not play. And so you're left with a game that doesn't appeal to anybody because they're chasing an imaginary group that doesn't exist.

It has nothing to do with adaptation. It has to do with them removing elements that people enjoy.
 

JusDoIt

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,756
South Central Los Angeles
If you're fine playing against the same few people over and over on the same old janky online

I mean, StrIVe will likely have janky online too...

Not really, I dont want just a diehard focus I want actual growth and support. I still play CvS2 from time to time but you can't tell me playing that is the same as games that get highlighted as the new current game.

Why does it need to? Hella old games have been able to have resurgences with new blood despite a lack of support or main stage presence. Ain't no reason that can't be done for Rev 2 or AC or whatever.
 

QisTopTier

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,717
Why does it need to? Hella old games have been able to have resurgences with new blood despite a lack of support or main stage presence. Ain't no reason that can't be done for Rev 2 or AC or whatever.
Hella old games have not have resurgences with new blood. Let's not kid ourselves here. I keep my fingers on the pulse of the FGC as a whole.
 
Jun 23, 2019
6,446
As opposed to the input delay Strive will have that'll have you seeking out discords for matches. lol



Do you think people are complaining because they can't adapt? lol.

The game will not be fun. Those people will not play. Casuals will not play. And so you're left with a game that doesn't appeal to anybody because they're chasing an imaginary group that doesn't exist.

It has nothing to do with adaptation. It has to do with them removing elements that people enjoy.

You literally are stating your personal feelings as facts.You have no clue how this game will perform and are making broad assumptions without having even played the damn game.
 

skillzilla81

Self-requested temporary ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,043
You literally are stating your personal feelings as facts.You have no clue how this game will perform and are making broad assumptions without having even played the damn game.

Um, no, I'm stating personal feelings as opinions. I'm making broad assumptions from decades of fighting game knowledge, experience, habits of scenes, and the footage we've seen.

Which is something people have always done.

If you don't want people stating their concerns, then you don't want people talking about positive shit either, which means we just shouldn't be talking about the game at all. Because almost nobody has even played the damn game. Concerns are just as valid as optimism at this point.
 
Jun 23, 2019
6,446
Um, no, I'm stating personal feelings as opinions. I'm making broad assumptions from decades of fighting game knowledge, experience, habits of scenes, and the footage we've seen.

Which is something people have always done.

If you don't want people stating their concerns, then you don't want people talking about positive shit either, which means we just shouldn't be talking about the game at all. Because almost nobody has even played the damn game. Concerns are just as valid as optimism at this point.

lol Give me a break bruh. You saw the airdash changed and came in saying, "The game isn't fun. The casuals won't play, blah blah." You most certainly are trying to state your opinion as fact. I'm out. It's just an echo chamber of salty dudes mad that their airdash got changed and now trying to condemn the entire game in here.
 

BeaconofTruth

Member
Dec 30, 2017
3,427
Play Rev2 if you don't like Strive, the old games will still be there for you.
A lot of people who won't like strive probably will, but just because you have older games as an option, doesn't suddenly mean you wouldn't want to play a new guilty gear using the core of guilty, with better production value, with a new meta, with new characters, etc
 

QisTopTier

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,717
lol Give me a break bruh. You saw the airdash changed and came in saying, "The game isn't fun. The casuals won't play, blah blah." You most certainly are trying to state your opinion as fact. I'm out. It's just an echo chamber of salty dudes mad that their airdash got changed and now trying to condemn the entire game in here.
You are writing off people that are long time fans of the series. Shit Ive bought every game in the series since ps1 jank busted ass gg1. Imported a jpn ps2 just to play slash and accent core on release.

It's not just the air dash, it's everything added together.

Air game is weaker

Ground game is weaker

Air combos are pretty much gone

Match flow is stiffer and more repetitive

Creativity in the moment is vastly reduced
 
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skillzilla81

Self-requested temporary ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,043
I'll be sure to put IMO after every post I make so people aren't confused that my posts are just my opinion.

IMO
 
Nov 25, 2018
751
The more we find out about strive the less I think I'll like it but the more I need to play it. I need to see whatever the fuck they want this game to be for myself.
 

ggdeku

Member
Oct 26, 2017
758
I'm so curious if/how they attempt to bring in characters like millia/I-no/venom. As someone who really likes chip kill as a mechanic, venom's "your meter or your life" threat is now significantly reduced.- I-no is super air based with her dash and IAD being vital to pretty much everything about her. I don't even know what they could do with her.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,777
It seems like Granblue has the better idea for attracting casual players who don't want to deep dive into the game mechanics with its coop mode.

I don't know how fun it will actually be but it's an attractive point imo if you can get together with a friend and beat up enemies/bosses together as opposed to only fighting 1v1.

I don't know how much Strive will sell if it's just the usual versus with visual novel style story mode like Xrd. I'm guessing about the same since if that's the case then there's nothing drastically different between it and the last couple games.

I'd mention rollback but I don't think that will make it in. I think having rollback would be good for casual players especially since I imagine running into matches with massive input delay is a pretty big turn off, something that hardcore players will stomach but casual players will probably end up leaving to play something else that feels better.
 

skillzilla81

Self-requested temporary ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,043
I'm so curious if/how they attempt to bring in characters like millia/I-no/venom. As someone who really likes chip kill as a mechanic, venom's "your meter or your life" threat is now significantly reduced.- I-no is super air based with her dash and IAD being vital to pretty much everything about her. I don't even know what they could do with her.

Yeah, I'm interested to see what they do with all of those characters as well. As a Chipp player, I've really liked the way they implemented his teleport style into us alpha blades, but with the system changes we've seen, I don't know how the characters you listed work.