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Let me Pitch Final Fantasy XVI to you
- Thread starter Araujo
- Start date
Was gonna post this as well, I'd really love for that to come back.
What I would want is a contemporary version of the essence of Final Fantasy VI. The story takes place in a large, diverse city that's a mix of Victorian gothic and sci-fi (or some interesting mix of two genre aesthetics). You have a diverse cast of characters with interesting backstories that intersect in different ways with each other, sometimes even in contentious ways. Of course one of the FFVI ideas is a game set in two phases, whether that means the city is fundamentally transformed halfway through or you venture out of the city to the wildness or some foreign place after spending 20 hours getting to know the city (or more, it is a JRPG).
A lot of the superficial trappings and details don't matter other than it needs to feel like Final Fantasy. I think you captured the spirit with a moogle as a mentor, it's that sort of on the face of it silliness that really works in the series. Final Fantasy XV is somewhere between a decent game and a very good game, but in a lot of ways it just doesn't feel like a Final Fantasy game. Summons are very reduced, spells are grenades, the only race is humans (basically) - it just feels kind of bland with a veneer of Final Fantasy shining through. So it's important to get back to that interesting mix. I love having a moogle in my party, or a lion dog, or a frog thing, or a blue lion that walks like a human, or a furry...okay you get the picture.
Honestly though combat is the most important thing. Sure "I" want the story and characters more, but the game needs to be fun. I love turn based games but it needs to be action-oriented. At the same time it needs to have strategy and a variety of ways to approach a fight. I think a modified version of what kingdom hearts Birth By Sleep/Dream Drop Distance did could work. You have a selection of commands selected that you can quickly cycle through as well as basic attack commands you can do without needing to look through the menu, but you also need the ability to use a spell or something that isn't in your preselected "deck." Also, every character should have one thing they do that no other character can do, although improving relationships and leveling up characters (kind of like Persona) will allow you to share more basic class features amongst characters.
So the main character might be a balanced fighter with good physical attacks, okay magic attacks and the special ability to meld attacks. Maybe linking a physical attack ability with the Fire spell results in a Flame Sword attack, with the ability to eventually link three or four attacks and establish these melded attacks as a single command in your deck. Another character might specialize in tools where they use items and it creates a special attack - for instance using a dagger might result in a Blade Barrage attack that can cause bleeding, and while other characters can't use the Tool command maybe some specific attacks can be learned like Blade Barrage. You choose the different commands each player has and the computer will mostly rely on these although not exclusively. Also, I think it's borderline necessary to have some system where you level gear, weapons, summons, or something and by doing so not only are you acquiring new abilities for/from the thing but it or you are getting stronger. FFVII, FFIX, FFX, Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep, Persona 4/5, there are a few examples of game systems outside of just leveling your character to consider when playing.
Another important thing to consider is the environment. If you are fighting in the streets during a rainstorm and use fire attacks the damage will be reduced but it can create mist that can obscure the battlefield (and reduce the enemies chances of hitting you). Conversely if you use a thunder attack it will do more damage but will also do some damage to you. Any ways to incorporate the environment whether directly through changing the way the combat system responds like above or in creating more dynamic encounters such as fighting in an area with moving objects that need to be accounted for by dodging or even smartly used as cover, that's a big part of it too.
This is a very, very, very shallow idea of what I would like. Truthfully unless you are literally just copying whole swathes of game design from other stuff it takes a lot of words to accurately describe the ins and outs of gameplay, story, lore, characters, etc. I will say there are two more things I really would want:
The secret puzzle/platformer dungeon in FFXV is a fantastic but pretty janky piece of wonderful game design. Dungeons in FFXVI need to have unique and interesting ideas in them, and there needs to be a more polished and balanced version of the secret FFXV dungeon.
Gilgamesh needs to be in the game, he needs to be a fight whether optional or part of the story, and he needs to be awesome. In my dream version of FFXVI you fight him several times, the first time he's wagering one of his swords (an iconic FF weapon) for you Sword. After the first defeat he comes back and doubles down, offering another sword for yours plus what he's lost. I'd say you fight him three times, with a fourth optional time being very hard and him revealing what he gave you were fakes but he will give you the ultimate weapon if you can beat him when he really tries. Maybe 3 fights and one optional fight is too repetitive and can be scaled down to one fight and one optional fight. This needs to happen Square Enix.
A lot of the superficial trappings and details don't matter other than it needs to feel like Final Fantasy. I think you captured the spirit with a moogle as a mentor, it's that sort of on the face of it silliness that really works in the series. Final Fantasy XV is somewhere between a decent game and a very good game, but in a lot of ways it just doesn't feel like a Final Fantasy game. Summons are very reduced, spells are grenades, the only race is humans (basically) - it just feels kind of bland with a veneer of Final Fantasy shining through. So it's important to get back to that interesting mix. I love having a moogle in my party, or a lion dog, or a frog thing, or a blue lion that walks like a human, or a furry...okay you get the picture.
Honestly though combat is the most important thing. Sure "I" want the story and characters more, but the game needs to be fun. I love turn based games but it needs to be action-oriented. At the same time it needs to have strategy and a variety of ways to approach a fight. I think a modified version of what kingdom hearts Birth By Sleep/Dream Drop Distance did could work. You have a selection of commands selected that you can quickly cycle through as well as basic attack commands you can do without needing to look through the menu, but you also need the ability to use a spell or something that isn't in your preselected "deck." Also, every character should have one thing they do that no other character can do, although improving relationships and leveling up characters (kind of like Persona) will allow you to share more basic class features amongst characters.
So the main character might be a balanced fighter with good physical attacks, okay magic attacks and the special ability to meld attacks. Maybe linking a physical attack ability with the Fire spell results in a Flame Sword attack, with the ability to eventually link three or four attacks and establish these melded attacks as a single command in your deck. Another character might specialize in tools where they use items and it creates a special attack - for instance using a dagger might result in a Blade Barrage attack that can cause bleeding, and while other characters can't use the Tool command maybe some specific attacks can be learned like Blade Barrage. You choose the different commands each player has and the computer will mostly rely on these although not exclusively. Also, I think it's borderline necessary to have some system where you level gear, weapons, summons, or something and by doing so not only are you acquiring new abilities for/from the thing but it or you are getting stronger. FFVII, FFIX, FFX, Kingdom Hearts Birth By Sleep, Persona 4/5, there are a few examples of game systems outside of just leveling your character to consider when playing.
Another important thing to consider is the environment. If you are fighting in the streets during a rainstorm and use fire attacks the damage will be reduced but it can create mist that can obscure the battlefield (and reduce the enemies chances of hitting you). Conversely if you use a thunder attack it will do more damage but will also do some damage to you. Any ways to incorporate the environment whether directly through changing the way the combat system responds like above or in creating more dynamic encounters such as fighting in an area with moving objects that need to be accounted for by dodging or even smartly used as cover, that's a big part of it too.
This is a very, very, very shallow idea of what I would like. Truthfully unless you are literally just copying whole swathes of game design from other stuff it takes a lot of words to accurately describe the ins and outs of gameplay, story, lore, characters, etc. I will say there are two more things I really would want:
The secret puzzle/platformer dungeon in FFXV is a fantastic but pretty janky piece of wonderful game design. Dungeons in FFXVI need to have unique and interesting ideas in them, and there needs to be a more polished and balanced version of the secret FFXV dungeon.
Gilgamesh needs to be in the game, he needs to be a fight whether optional or part of the story, and he needs to be awesome. In my dream version of FFXVI you fight him several times, the first time he's wagering one of his swords (an iconic FF weapon) for you Sword. After the first defeat he comes back and doubles down, offering another sword for yours plus what he's lost. I'd say you fight him three times, with a fourth optional time being very hard and him revealing what he gave you were fakes but he will give you the ultimate weapon if you can beat him when he really tries. Maybe 3 fights and one optional fight is too repetitive and can be scaled down to one fight and one optional fight. This needs to happen Square Enix.
Yeah pretty much Agni's Philosophy story and setting wise. Combat wise just needs to be an evolution of 13 because it was honestly a great system. The world itself is the biggest challenge and they really need to combine everything they've done from Kingdom Hearts 3 to FFXV to Tomb Raider and just make it full of interesting things to do. I think they can do turn based if they revolutionized it which they have proven time and again they can do.
Overall it has to top their recent efforts, which isn't hard the only real hurdle is FFXIV. Gotta have interesting characters, varied settings and an incredibly satisfying endgame. There's just no more room for a mediocre or even just average Final Fantasy.
Overall it has to top their recent efforts, which isn't hard the only real hurdle is FFXIV. Gotta have interesting characters, varied settings and an incredibly satisfying endgame. There's just no more room for a mediocre or even just average Final Fantasy.
I want a scifi final fantasy setting like FFXIII and space!!
its time FF did some planetary exploration
its time FF did some planetary exploration
FFXIV setting is nice
medieval with heavy magic emphasis, futuristic dungeon of lost civilization to balance futuristic and medieval fans
multiple race
job system
unique dungeons(like in ff14),tons of summons fight
multiple area,continents
tons of quest with unique storyline(again ff14 already done this)
chocobo traversal as how others open world rpg is (botw horse for example)..give flying ability later as how ff14 is...heavensward is awesome and exploring continent by flying mount had kind of xenoblade feels there
bring FF15's camping mechanic ..improvise it..it should be the franchise's new improved core mechanic future onwards as how previous FF has resting mechanic utilize 'tent' items.
if they want put multiplayer,make it available in dungeon or monster hunt..like mhw or ff14 is
or just copy ff14 formula as a base,adjust it to suit single player experience..i dont mind if the main character is based on player custom character creation
the formula SE looking for is infront of their eyes.
medieval with heavy magic emphasis, futuristic dungeon of lost civilization to balance futuristic and medieval fans
multiple race
job system
unique dungeons(like in ff14),tons of summons fight
multiple area,continents
tons of quest with unique storyline(again ff14 already done this)
chocobo traversal as how others open world rpg is (botw horse for example)..give flying ability later as how ff14 is...heavensward is awesome and exploring continent by flying mount had kind of xenoblade feels there
bring FF15's camping mechanic ..improvise it..it should be the franchise's new improved core mechanic future onwards as how previous FF has resting mechanic utilize 'tent' items.
if they want put multiplayer,make it available in dungeon or monster hunt..like mhw or ff14 is
or just copy ff14 formula as a base,adjust it to suit single player experience..i dont mind if the main character is based on player custom character creation
the formula SE looking for is infront of their eyes.
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Just make something like FFIX but with the speed of X-2's ATB. Get Akihiko Yoshida to do the character art. Uematsu does the music.
It's not that hard Square.
It's not that hard Square.
Are people really so scared from something that is not ATB turn based Final Fantasy? Let them try new things. And don't make FF XII, XIII or XV as examples of failed experiments. All those games had troubled developments, for one reason or another.
We shouldn't be so scared of Square trying something new other than a traditional turn based battle system. Start from turn based and make it something far more dynamic than FF IX or DQXI battle system.
Setting should definitely have more fantasy though, and hopefully have mature characters and not the typical Japanese rpg characterization.
Also, i would like to have a Final Fantasy where i change armor, shield, helmet, accessory and it all shows ingame.
We shouldn't be so scared of Square trying something new other than a traditional turn based battle system. Start from turn based and make it something far more dynamic than FF IX or DQXI battle system.
Setting should definitely have more fantasy though, and hopefully have mature characters and not the typical Japanese rpg characterization.
Also, i would like to have a Final Fantasy where i change armor, shield, helmet, accessory and it all shows ingame.
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The opposite of ff15 is a game with a good story\pg\combat etc so your example is not that great lol.So a super-linear and traditional JRPG?
Wait a second....
But yeah, after the shitshow called ff15 i can take a low risk linear rpg with good quality if square is not capable with open world games.
We don't know if open world is the formula they are going to follow from FF XV onwards, nobody from Square Enix commented about that. I don't think so. FF XV was always going to be much more experimental compared to the main series. It was called Versus XIII for a reason and i think it should have kept that name showing that the game was going to be different than your traditional Final Fantasy turn based games.
Of course lol, just pointing out that all you said was for it to be opposite, and that's not necessarily a winner. There's just so many things that make one, and going away from what you perceive to be wrong with FFXV isn't the solution.
God I'd love it to go back to Ivalice. Awesome pitch OP, I'd be impressed if you got all that in a 30 second ride without sounding like a babbling madman haha.
Sorry, stopped reading your post. Was sold at "Ivalice".
Ok now I'll go back and read the rest, will update this with the rest of my thoughts later.
Edit: Elevator out of order, please use stairs. Sooo... elevator pitch cancelled.
Sorry... much long, very ramble. I very much like the idea of returning to Ivalice though, and don't really understand all the "Ivalice? Nah gimme something fresh" takes in this thread. Getting a new world with every mainline FF is the standard boring thing to do, revisiting an old world would be the fresh galaxy brain play. Not to mention the safe thing to do after XV, which was certainly fresh...
Ok now I'll go back and read the rest, will update this with the rest of my thoughts later.
Edit: Elevator out of order, please use stairs. Sooo... elevator pitch cancelled.
Sorry... much long, very ramble. I very much like the idea of returning to Ivalice though, and don't really understand all the "Ivalice? Nah gimme something fresh" takes in this thread. Getting a new world with every mainline FF is the standard boring thing to do, revisiting an old world would be the fresh galaxy brain play. Not to mention the safe thing to do after XV, which was certainly fresh...
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My pitch.
Gameplay.
Social Stealth of early Assasins Creed titles meets a melee focused battle system that combines the best of FFXV and The Wonderful 101 (attack/defence on triggers, magic with right stick draw commands)
Location/theme
Open world city that's Medieval Europe/French romantic period meets modern minimalism (apple store shiny), screens but horses and carts ect slight rock opera elements
Party/cast
leads.
1. Male, Early 30s Opera Star, mysterious man of the night
2. Female, street artist, late 20s
Gameplay.
Social Stealth of early Assasins Creed titles meets a melee focused battle system that combines the best of FFXV and The Wonderful 101 (attack/defence on triggers, magic with right stick draw commands)
Location/theme
Open world city that's Medieval Europe/French romantic period meets modern minimalism (apple store shiny), screens but horses and carts ect slight rock opera elements
Party/cast
leads.
1. Male, Early 30s Opera Star, mysterious man of the night
2. Female, street artist, late 20s
Here's my vision for a Final Fantasy XVI trailer... (trigger warning: It's janky as fuck)
*epic music plays in a modern looking cityscape ala Versus XIII*
A big building explodes and out of the explosion a man with a leather coat walks out with soldiers rushing behind them.
They're chasing the main character, who looks kind of like if Squall and Noctis had a baby except he has a beard. The main character looks behind him and smirks, revealing a playing card only to throw it in mid air to create a motorcycle which he uses to escape.
The soldiers throw their own playing cards and create hoverboards to follow him.
SQUARE-ENIX PRESENTS
Scene switches to a more traditional fantasy setting inside of a dungeon. A party of a female red mage, a samurai, a moogle black mage, and a masked knight character is being surrounded by goblins. The red mage casts a spell using a playing card to dispell all of the surrounding goblins and they celebrate. Then the soldiers that were chasing after the main character appear and point their guns at them.
REALITY MEETS FANTASY
A young blonde girl is in an open field that expands endlessly as she sees a young version of the main character sitting on a bench afar. She runs after him only for things to get dark and she completely loses her senses as a demonic entity takes over her body.
The demonic entity is the man in the leather coat, and suddenly the girl is taken to the skyline of the cityscape floating in mid-air.
UNLIMITED POTENTIAL
A badass looking cyborg ninja appears inside of a military base full of these soldiers. He reveals a Joker playing card, and in doing so it creates shadow clones of himself and he takes out every soldier in the base in one swoop. He unmasks only to revealed Hironobu Sakaguchi's face, and lights a cigarette on his way out of the base.
MYSTERY STORY
Bahamut is being summoned in the cityscape by the leather coat dude and the blonde girl is the centerpiece of it. He's a giant kaiju monster. The main character, the red mage, and the cyborg ninja are together to fight it with an army of people behind them. Monsters are spawning through portals everywhere and soldiers are invading the city.
Out of nowhere, a ray of light appears from the sky and it shoots Sephiroth from Final Fantasy VII down to the city in league with the monsters and soldiers. The main character is shook and they clash swords in an epic battle. Suddenly Sephiroth outpaces him and stabs him with his sword similar to what he did with Aeris. The main character explodes into a bunch of pixels.
TRUTH ABOVE FICTION
It's revealed that the main character was someone in the real world playing a VR game called Final Fantasy XVI. He freaks out and removes the headset to reveal the main character is being played by J-pop sensation Gackt. As he opens his eyes he sees Hironobu Sakaguchi and Tetsuya Nomura starring at him with a sigh of sadness.
Suddenly we see our main character walking onto a streets of Shinjuku, Japan in a Blade Runner-esque future with dark rainy skies loaming ahead. The title appears...
THE LAST IDEA: FINAL FANTASY XVI
*epic music plays in a modern looking cityscape ala Versus XIII*
A big building explodes and out of the explosion a man with a leather coat walks out with soldiers rushing behind them.
They're chasing the main character, who looks kind of like if Squall and Noctis had a baby except he has a beard. The main character looks behind him and smirks, revealing a playing card only to throw it in mid air to create a motorcycle which he uses to escape.
The soldiers throw their own playing cards and create hoverboards to follow him.
SQUARE-ENIX PRESENTS
Scene switches to a more traditional fantasy setting inside of a dungeon. A party of a female red mage, a samurai, a moogle black mage, and a masked knight character is being surrounded by goblins. The red mage casts a spell using a playing card to dispell all of the surrounding goblins and they celebrate. Then the soldiers that were chasing after the main character appear and point their guns at them.
REALITY MEETS FANTASY
A young blonde girl is in an open field that expands endlessly as she sees a young version of the main character sitting on a bench afar. She runs after him only for things to get dark and she completely loses her senses as a demonic entity takes over her body.
The demonic entity is the man in the leather coat, and suddenly the girl is taken to the skyline of the cityscape floating in mid-air.
UNLIMITED POTENTIAL
A badass looking cyborg ninja appears inside of a military base full of these soldiers. He reveals a Joker playing card, and in doing so it creates shadow clones of himself and he takes out every soldier in the base in one swoop. He unmasks only to revealed Hironobu Sakaguchi's face, and lights a cigarette on his way out of the base.
MYSTERY STORY
Bahamut is being summoned in the cityscape by the leather coat dude and the blonde girl is the centerpiece of it. He's a giant kaiju monster. The main character, the red mage, and the cyborg ninja are together to fight it with an army of people behind them. Monsters are spawning through portals everywhere and soldiers are invading the city.
Out of nowhere, a ray of light appears from the sky and it shoots Sephiroth from Final Fantasy VII down to the city in league with the monsters and soldiers. The main character is shook and they clash swords in an epic battle. Suddenly Sephiroth outpaces him and stabs him with his sword similar to what he did with Aeris. The main character explodes into a bunch of pixels.
TRUTH ABOVE FICTION
It's revealed that the main character was someone in the real world playing a VR game called Final Fantasy XVI. He freaks out and removes the headset to reveal the main character is being played by J-pop sensation Gackt. As he opens his eyes he sees Hironobu Sakaguchi and Tetsuya Nomura starring at him with a sigh of sadness.
Suddenly we see our main character walking onto a streets of Shinjuku, Japan in a Blade Runner-esque future with dark rainy skies loaming ahead. The title appears...
THE LAST IDEA: FINAL FANTASY XVI
Why a human sized moogle? Let it be a normal moogle, maybe just a bit big for a moogle, it would still kick ass. Honestly, give me a new world with different species. I miss that. Tons of various humanoid people out and about, some in your party.
And please give it a dofferent visual style. I like Nomura, but I'm really bored with the whole "hyper reListic Nomura" look. Something as colorful as KH3 would be better. Or something entierly different. Just give me color and magic and mystery.
And please give it a dofferent visual style. I like Nomura, but I'm really bored with the whole "hyper reListic Nomura" look. Something as colorful as KH3 would be better. Or something entierly different. Just give me color and magic and mystery.
So it would be five hours long and force you to play through it six times to see the full story and all the female characters will have their asses hanging out all the time?
Did you not play Nier and Nier Automata? People that didn't play them are only ones saying you have to play the games many times, the only time it actually kinda happens that way and it's very similar is Automata Route B and even then it was fine. Also those games were super low budget, I'd expect more from a FINAL FANTASY game.
Also I said write, get some other artist and director or whatever.
I've played every Yoko Taro game. Drakengard and Drakengard 3 (and Drakengard 2, but he wasn't involved in that one) all force you to replay stuff over and over to see the full story, too. I'm tired of it.
And I don't think he's the kind of writer who would make a good Final Fantasy game, because all he knows how to do is make Yoko Taro games.
Well I was mostly talking about the Nier games, I did play Drakengard 1 as well but I just youtubed the final endings that need all the weapons.
In Nier you just replay the 2nd half ONCE and it's pretty brilliant, then C/D are just get all the weapon endings.
In Automata Route B is the only time you repeat anything, so I just find it dishonest to say that you play the game 6 times lol.
It's hyperbole. The point is he keeps going back to the same well over and over and over again and he needs to find a new well. It would be terrible for a real RPG.
Make it like the PS1 games. Turn based. Pre rendered beautiful backgrounds. Make the narrative coherent, though. Climate change analogy in the story.
It has worked so far, and Taro does so many interesting things aside of the endings, I assume at some point he won't do it in his own games when he feels like it.
I love his stories because he talks about existentialism, what it means to be a human, and so many other topics that some writers try to do and fail miserably.
Now let ME pitch.
The Setting
A fantasy world based on a Middle Eastern-esque, magic infused setting (akin to what we saw in Agni's Philosophy).
The Plot
I liked the edginess of FFVII- you were a terrorist organization. In my spec, magic has been outlawed for centuries because of religious decree. A corrupt caliph rules over the country and hordes its resources. The people are at constant war with neighbouring nations. Gifted mages hide in secret, some practice their art to heal and care for the wounded. However, magic is drawn as a resource from rare crystals and the supply is running out. One girl, a member of the underground mages is caught in a vast sting by the government. Just as she's about to be captured, she unleashes a tremendous power and it is revealed she is a very rare species- a summoner. She is thus thrust into a vast geo-political adventure trying to save the world, restore magic, take down an evil caliphate and so on.
The Mechanics
A battle system evolved from FFX-2. Real time, turn based system but fast paced with a lot of tactical implications. An expanded form of the job system where characters mix and match job traits and combine to make unique attacks with like jobs- kind of how skills work in Chrono Trigger.
The Glitz
A return to multi-party gameplay. Parts of the game your large party is split up and you work apart carving out the story. Dungeons and major battles have 3 party components like VI. The game is dedicated to mini games, meaningful sidequests and lots of endgame content. There is NO online component.
Priorities
- A fantastic and complex villain
- A diverse cast of characters
- A deep lore flowing through the game and narrative
- Challenging, epic feeling boss fights
The Setting
A fantasy world based on a Middle Eastern-esque, magic infused setting (akin to what we saw in Agni's Philosophy).
The Plot
I liked the edginess of FFVII- you were a terrorist organization. In my spec, magic has been outlawed for centuries because of religious decree. A corrupt caliph rules over the country and hordes its resources. The people are at constant war with neighbouring nations. Gifted mages hide in secret, some practice their art to heal and care for the wounded. However, magic is drawn as a resource from rare crystals and the supply is running out. One girl, a member of the underground mages is caught in a vast sting by the government. Just as she's about to be captured, she unleashes a tremendous power and it is revealed she is a very rare species- a summoner. She is thus thrust into a vast geo-political adventure trying to save the world, restore magic, take down an evil caliphate and so on.
The Mechanics
A battle system evolved from FFX-2. Real time, turn based system but fast paced with a lot of tactical implications. An expanded form of the job system where characters mix and match job traits and combine to make unique attacks with like jobs- kind of how skills work in Chrono Trigger.
The Glitz
A return to multi-party gameplay. Parts of the game your large party is split up and you work apart carving out the story. Dungeons and major battles have 3 party components like VI. The game is dedicated to mini games, meaningful sidequests and lots of endgame content. There is NO online component.
Priorities
- A fantastic and complex villain
- A diverse cast of characters
- A deep lore flowing through the game and narrative
- Challenging, epic feeling boss fights