Lets be honest : Kojima & MGS haven't been great for a long time

[Foxtastical]

And while I think V plays like a dream, Metal Gear has not really felt like Metal Gear since Portable Ops. Everything after has felt "off," just a little bit. In differing ways.

But damn I really loved how V played, so god damn much. It's the only reason why I played a good chunk of Survive. I just like running around with those mechanics, felt good.

Also, Kojima fans are weird. I don't necessarily think he's a full hack fraud or anything, but I think it's a bad idea to glorify auteur figures.

 

[Rickenslacker]

Again, you're being obtuse for no reason.

The game tries to tell a story in many different ways, it's apparent what it's trying to do. It just that many people found what it was trying to do ineffective or unsatisfying.

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Eh, I don't think you're the best judge of obtuseness, heh. The game is pretty light on story and heavy on play, if that's what constitutes a focus on story in your mind, have at it.

 

[Nycteris]

I think the story of the Metal Gear franchise evolved from the highest to the lowest. Nevertheless, the ideas behind the stories, control of information (internet), war economy, the power of the language were very powerful.

Related to the gameplay, Metal Gear Solid was always ahead of her time. Specially Metal Gear Solid V.

In my opinion, Kojima was relieved after Metal Gear Solid V because it was nearly impossible to do a next step and improve with the next game. Being out of that was good for him. Time to start something fresh and new. The gameplay of Metal Gear Solid V was smooth and perfect. The player is dragged very deep into the scenarios, giving all the players a lot of possibilities to complete, specially, the side-quests.

 

[larrybud]

Again, you're being obtuse for no reason.

The game tries to tell a story in many different ways, it's apparent what it's trying to do. It just that many people found what it was trying to do ineffective or unsatisfying.


Yes, the game is proof that what he attempted to do with a more ambient storytelling with the tapes, the text entries, the mission chatter, and the environmental story telling was not a success for many people. The cutscenes being lesser because of the focus on the latter was also a massive downside.

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however you'd like it. I'm just glad you're no longer confusing/conflating marketing talk with actually experiencing a game.

 

[BeaconofTruth]

You are confusing MGS3 being Kojima's best game with him suddenly becoming a bad dev because he didn't make games as good. As bad as the story parts of MGS4 n 5 are, lets not get this twisted, it's still an interactive medium about play, and the gameplay in both MGS4 and 5 are pretty good to outright fucking excellent. I would take both of those games 10 times over some of the tripe that's been gassed up over the years.

 

[astro]

however you'd like it. I'm just glad you're no longer confusing marketing with actually experiencing a game.

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What are you talking about?

Kojima's intent was to tell a story.

The game itself very clearly tries to tell a story in many different ways.

The game just doesn't do a very good job of it, according to many fans at least.

There wa no confusion here but your own.

Eh, I don't think you're the best judge of obtuseness, heh. The game is pretty light on story and heavy on play, if that's what constitutes a focus on story in your mind, have at it.

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Your snide comment makes no sense here when you're the only person being obtuse and weirdly trying to spin the game's lack of good story telling as a plus... "it's just a gameplay focused game!".

No, it's a game that tries to tell a story in a variety of ways and fails to tell it well.

There's not so much a lack of story, you can find quite a lot of story if you dig through the menus and tapes. the problem is the story telling is bad, and the narrative itself has a poor focus.

 

[Flipyap]

MGS had unconventional controls pre-V, but calling them terrible is a real stretch.

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MGS3 (a game designed for a system with analog sticks) forced you to use the d-pad for sneaking. That's terrible.

 

[astro]

MGS3 (a game designed for a system with analog sticks) forced you to use the d-pad for sneaking. That's terrible.

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Ok, that example is pretty bad I can agree.

 

[Xwing]

Regardless of the overall story quality of the later MGS games, Kojima has proven to have just as flawed and weird taste as anyone when it comes to narrative preference. He's not some paragon story teller with no faults.

Following him on twitter over the last couple years has had me think "Really, you liked that movie? Okay then..." at least a few times.

 

[BluePigGanon]

V is probably my fave of the series and is a legit classic. I revisit it periodically and it's amazing how much it gets perfectly right in terms of gameplay and progression.

 

[Deleted member 4869]

Is 4 a part of the bad period?

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No. Only a vocal minority dislikes it. The game got excellent reviews and it even won GAF's GOTY twice.

The game is widely considered to be excellent and one of the best PS3 games.

 

[klier]

MGSV had absolutely fantastic gameplay, and because of that the premise of this thread is completely flawed.

 

[Boy]

Mgs5 is my favorite from the series. Still one of the best games of this gen.

 

[Deleted member 12447]

5 Was Trash... Everything else was fire.

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We must have played different 5s. The gameplay in 5 is nearly untouchable.

 

[JahIthBer]

I agree but i personally think Ground Zeros was a return to form, Kojima needed to accept his limitations & not make Phantom Pain an open world game, it could have been incredible, however with Death Stranding & it's constant delays, it seems maybe Kojima hasn't learned from his overly ambitious mistakes, so i don't really blame Konami like everyone else does.

 

[Goldenroad]

I really go back and forth on this. Phantom Pain is one of the probably 5 best playing action games this generation from a stealth and combat perspective. The more I think about it though, the more I realize I dislike almost every other aspect of that game. The story, the base building, the multiplayer, the characters...basically it was unfocused. If the game would have just been focused on the core gameplay loop of "infiltrate, extract/eliminate, escape"...I think it would have been one of the best games ever made. Instead Kojima has all these ideas about how to make it a more "grand" experience, and I think they all detract from what actually makes the game good.

I think if DS loses all the ancillary bullshit and just focuses on being an amazing third person action game, it will probably be incredible, but I don't think I have faith in Kojima to do that. And in spite of all my personal misgivings about V, and really all of his games to some extent, it is his ambition that I admire the most, and I hope he keeps swinging for the fences.

 

[wig split]

MGS V is straight up trash. Even the gameplay is shallow, don't believe what the fanboys may say. In my opinion, the only good thing to come out of MGS V are the story related cassette tapes.

 

[-JD-]

Constant unending retcons.

 

[super moustique]

I think the last all around great MGS game was MGS3.

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I agree.

MGS4 is ok by itself but it's pretty bad as a sequel. MGS5 has great gameplay but everything else is terrible.

I really liked PW back then until that last chapter which is pure trash. Boss fights are also terrible and that timer on the things you develop doesn't help in both PW and 5.

 

[Punpun]

4 managed to wrap-up the series perfectly, it's a great ending for the Metal Gear Saga. Peace Walker was just bad in my opinion, not only because of the handheld limitations such as small areas and bad gameplay (those damn boss fights) but also because of the unnecessary story.
5 was a mixed bag for me personally. Gameplay wise it was almost perfect but the story and structure of that story just don't work in my opinion. The game consists of mostly filler, but the fun gameplay ensures you want to come back. Still the weakest game of the series besides Peace Walker for me.

 

[Nose Master]

He hasn't really knocked it out of the park since MGS2, imo. Still, he has a style that is incredibly unique (to the games space) and I'll give anything he does a shot.

 

[Dreamwriter]

MGS4 was great, and 5 may have been great if he had been allowed to finish it (or may not, we'll never know).

 

[KORNdog]

Your first point seems weird when you name MGS3 as the point things were the best considering the female characters in 3 literally had their tops open and their tits half out. Kojima's handling of women have NEVER not being hyper sexualised sadly. Hell, you could fuck about in vents in MGS1 to get Meryl in her underwear. And that was back when detail resembled a poorly painted cardboard box....but he tried to titilate anyway...

Story wise I think they've been pseudo intellectual garbage since MGS2 and they got worse with every release. It's why the first game on PS1 is really the only game I consider great overall.

Gameplay wise however. Despite liking the top-down almost pac man-like quality of MGS1, MGSV is easily one of the best playing stealth games to date.

 

[Disco]

The writing in his games has gotten shittier with every new one he releases

But on the other hand the gameplay in the series has never been better than it was in V so it kinda balances out

2 is still the peak of the series tho imo

 

[Quad Lasers]

Naw. V and Peace Walker are the only fun stealth games in the series.

Only reason I'm excited for Death Stranding is because it feels like Kojima's at the peak of his design sensibilities.

 

[Liquidsnake]

1-4 perfection.
V WTF happened.

 

[DarkFlame92]

All I know is that I'm so happy that Kojima is free from the shackles of Metal Gear. For such a talented director,sticking to mainly one IP for so long is certainly underwhelming. I hope Death Stranding is the start of the creation of many new IPs from Kojima

Miyazaki,another amazing japanese game director, has already created 3 new major IPs between 2011-2019.

 

[OwOtacon]

I kinda agree, but also I acknowledge that there have been external factors that have limited Kojima and his studio since MGS3. MGS4 was denied the ending it deserved, and MGSV's development was legendarily compromised. PT is the best thing Kojima made in a long time, and its telling what he could do outside of the MGS fanchise. And even in those lesser games, there are still amazing mechanics, details, and storytelling moments (Microwave tunnel MGS4, Quarantine MGSV) that prove Kojima has merit still.

 

[GoxyFrandpa]

This is one of the big reasons why I'm interested in Death Stranding. Kojima seemed to want to do something other than MGS since 3, or even as far back as 2 but due to things like fan demand, death threats, and corporate pressure, he made MGS4 despite its existence going against the ambiguity of MGS2's ending which purposefully created a dead end for the series, and it shows with the game being a fucking mess of fan service and answering every single question possible to never have to deal with fan's bitching about questions that were never meant to be answered in the first place like the literal identity of the Patriots. Now over a decade later, he's able to do his own thing, with pretty much limitless budget and creative freedom, and so far it looks like a fantastic surreal experience, but with it being so long since MGS3, it's difficult to tell if he'll be able to create something on the same level.

 

[Ocelott]

We must have played different 5s. The gameplay in 5 is nearly untouchable.

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Story was not.

 

[Griffith]

I only love two of the MGS games (1 and 3) but the others I played were enjoyable or entertaining (though 4 clearly jumped the shark).

 

[Prine]

MGS4 was irredeemable crap, MGS:GZ was brilliant and V had superb encounter and stealth mechanics.

MGS4 was dogshit, PW was diarrhea dogshit, and V was dogshit smeared on an empty map with great controls.

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Thank you, here's the reason why MGS4 was shite and a stain on Kojima's legacy.

 

[Bor Gullet]

Is it really contrarian when both games (and Peace Walker for that matter) have had their detractors since they came out?

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Peace Walker was beloved by the PSP community when it came out, and it's still a remarkable achievement on that system. You can tell Kojima and Co poured a lot of love into that game.

It's only when it released on consoles for the HD collection that the hate started towards it.