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Nairume

SaGa Sage
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,940
The series went downhill after Tomokazu Fukushima left
Arguably, yeah.

Weird part is that the series suffered in ways that you wouldn't think would actually be related to his departure, like with MGS5 absolutely dropping the ball on the memorable boss fights that had been one of the many hallmarks of the series.
 

SweetBellic

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,414
4 had the best fan service and most pathos.

V had the best gameplay by a country mile and is one of the greatest games ever made despite being incomplete.

So that's a no from me dawg.
 

Regulus Tera

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,458
Arguably, yeah.

Weird part is that the series suffered in ways that you wouldn't think would actually be related to his departure, like with MGS5 absolutely dropping the ball on the memorable boss fights that had been one of the many hallmarks of the series.
There was an article a few years back on how MGS shifted from an anti-American standpoint to one less incisive to those themes after Fukushima left. It's a bit of a long read, but I suggest you read it: https://outsideyourheaven.blogspot.com/2012/04/decline-of-anti-americanism-in-metal.html?m=1
 

Andvari

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
439
Each to their own but I loved MGS4 apart from the Johnny Meryl nonsense which made me cringe.

MGSV was a great game with a pathetic unfinished story with too many missions involving same places but I still kinda liked it.

MGS3 well..... I would do anything to play a full blown remake with the MGS5 engine.
 

Kumomeme

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
668
Malaysia
mgsv is unfinished so there storyline issue here but gameplay is amazing..probably still best open world gameplay out there
about complaint of repetitive mission...well this is their first open world game

mgs4 is masterpiece

but yeah, being a masterpiece doesnt mean there no better game than it..like people's favourite, mgs3

peacewalker also pretty good
 

Cantaim

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,361
The Stussining
One day I shall make a thread dedicated to the changes the MGS series went through. With an active timeline of seeing which senior staff members left at what game and which ones got the tap to do more. Cause more people should be aware of people like Shuyo Murata
 

Dynamite Cop

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,002
California
A lot of bad opinions in here. Can't believe people are defending the garbage that occurred after MGS 3... even MGS 2 was starting to show signs of bullshit with the bosses.
 

Pein

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,235
NYC
Nah, MGS 1-4 were amazing. 3 is literally one of the best games of all time. ZOE2 is nuts too.

Like MGSV wasn't a train wreck considering what sorta fucked up dev cycle that went through.
 

TheModestGun

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
3,781
Nah, I've loved every metal gear game I've ever played. Yes. Even MGSV.

Its story was shit, but damn that gameplay was something special.

Also, I am a staunch defender of MGS:IV

That game is so meta referential to the whole series, for me its genius in its ridiculousness.
 

stillwrapped

Banned
Aug 15, 2018
994
??
Pretty much.
Everything after 3 has been garbage.

However, I'm still interested in Death Stranding.
But Kojima is VERY good at promotional materials so I'm a little weary of the final product.
 

Nairume

SaGa Sage
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,940
One day I shall make a thread dedicated to the changes the MGS series went through. With an active timeline of seeing which senior staff members left at what game and which ones got the tap to do more. Cause more people should be aware of people like Shuyo Murata
Murata's case is weird because he's basically replaced Fukushima for 4 and 5, but then he was also present with Fukushima in 3 so it's not like he only ever worked on the games that had issues.
 

NightShift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,026
Australia
MGSV is probably Kojima's peak as a game designer but as a writer I totally agree. Although I like to think that was because he didn't want to do another Metal Gear after MGS3. I desperately hope Death Stranding sparks that magic he used to have.
 

RestEerie

Banned
Aug 20, 2018
13,618
MGSV is the best playing stealth game even now....

sure, the bosses were disappointing as do the story presentation which many had attribute to its incomplete status but you can't deny its excellence in gameplay mechanics...
 
Jan 11, 2018
9,653
I think 4 was as good as the original trilogy. 5 was mechanically incredible... near flawless even. But mission structure, level and world design were all extremely repetitive, maintaining your base was a chore, and what few boss battles there were were underwhelming. And outside of the intro, and perhaps the very final scene, the game in no way felt like a Metal Gear game, and that was really the worst part of it for me. I'm not really sure on how much of that falls on Konami, how much that falls on Kojima, and how much that falls on my own personal experience of the game. Either way, even that wasn't nearly as bad as what happened with Survive. Let Metal Gear rest until they figure out a way to reinvent it. And with the way Konami has been the last few years, I'm not expecting that to happen any time soon.
 

Toybasher

Member
Nov 21, 2017
819
Guys, sorry for brief derailing of thread, but I just bought MGS HD on Xbox One, and I have 1 question: should I play any MGS before 3? Heard from a friend this game is great and that I would really enjoy it, but I'm afraid I could be losing something if I go directly to it.

3 takes place as the earliest game, but if anything you should start with 1. If not, start with 2. In fact, I think in the Euro version of MGS2 the game asks on a first playthrough if you know about the events and plot in 1, if you answer "NO" something changes which will have a VERY interesting impact on someone who's coming into the series fresh. It's not a huge deal but it'd be cool to hear someone's impressions. If you're playing the US version, you can get the same outcome by selecting "Plant" instead of Tanker or Tanker-Plant.
 

Huey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,201
Thread seems to be mostly people disagreeing with the OP that 4+/- 5 are great games (the former which I agree with)... but the point about Kojima's treatment of women characters is not debatable. It's trashy, shitty stuff - even MGS1, major plot points revolve around Meryl's ass and Snake is constantly creepy on Codec. I'm really hoping Kojima shows us he can do better in Death Stranding.
 

DustyVonErich

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,865
MGS4 is my favorite game of the series. The bat-shit crazy, no f's given love letter of a story to fans.

MGS3 is the best all-around, with the greatest balance of story and gameplay.

MGS5 has the best gameplay of the series period. Plus 5 has D-Dog. 5 just exchanged the codec for tapes.

Each game in the series is great in its own way, so I can't agree with the OP.
 

Calvarok

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,218
i've never actually played a metal gear, but watched people play through all the main ones. I have to agree that MGS3 was the high point in terms of overall cohesiveness. (depth of gameplay, narrative, and general direction)

5 is great gameplay-wise, but ever since 3 the games seem very self-absorbed and plodding both in plot and just like, actual cutscene direction.

EDIT: the fucking meryl and johnny fight cutscene in 4 was one of the worst things i've ever seen. I have zero respect for that game, sad to say. I can tell a lot of work went into it, but it's just the most obnoxious type of self-referential, self-parodying thing.
 

Deleted member 3196

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,280
I think a lot of people love later MGS games, and that's fine, but as someone who loved MGS 1&2, the series was never the same for me after that.

3 is a great game, but I felt it was lacking the intimacy of setting that 1 & 2 had.

I hated 4. It was just not good. The gameplay felt like a dumbing down of MGS3's more linear level design/method of progression. Just a corridor stealth game that had fake open areas. As for the story, well, the less said the better.

Peace Walker felt too mission-based, and the sense of tension was lost, but it definitely felt like an evolution of the MGS3 formula that was heading in a better direction. At this point I'd stopped caring about the plot.

I didn't even finish MGSV. The game felt like it wasn't valuing my time in any meaningful way. A shame because, mechanically, it feels like the most realised vision of what Kojima wanted MGS3 to be. But the mission design was terrible, and why bother following the story when nobody bothered to finish it?

Also, MGSV marked the end of the series' memorable boss battles, which had been on the decline into cookie-cutter template bosses starting with MGS4, through to boring robots with Peace Walker, to basically non-entities with MGSV.

I think the series has changed, and so it should, but on the way it lost a lot of what made me love it. That's a big shame.
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,721
No lies detected in the OP.

Still, at least MGS4 tried to be a good Metal Gear game. MGS Peace Walker and especially MGS5 just gave up. They're not even really stealth games anymore.
 

Azurik

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 5, 2017
2,441
Apart from V which was a poor show (not including gameplay), all the other games were stellar. Certainly no copy and paste, or recycled ideas and the BB squad was bad ass. No idea what OP is talking about but it's a matter of taste I guess
 

ginger ninja

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,060
Hyperbole ahoy ! Have at it ser.

May be in a world where ground zeros doesn't exist and V didn't had sublime gameplay
 

Soj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,707
MGS1 is one of my favourite games ever, but I've been massively disappointed in one way or another by every Kojima game since (which I guess makes an amount of sense). The last two things from Kojima I've truly enjoyed were the incredible paid demos for MGS2 and MGS5 (Ground Zeroes).

Perhaps Death Stranding will surprise me, since my expectations are so low for it.
 

K Samedi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,990
MGS V is the best stealth game ever made. I think the story elements are rather weak in V for sure but the gameplay more than makes up for it. I think 4 has a great story but lesser game design.
 

Necromanti

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,550
After the complete shitshow that was Peace Walker, I almost appreciated the minimal and "grounded" approach to the story. Not to say that it didn't have its emblematic Kojima issues, though. Plus the game was actually fun to play for a change.
 

Jakisthe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,583
That's not a fair comparison, as people liked MGS5 more when it came back and it's only now that we are four years out from it that people have really started to reconsider it for its flaws, while people hated RE6 when it came out and only started to say otherwise after the fact.
I recall most of the conversations about MGS5 when it came out being disappointed; that while the systems were great, everything else felt either unfinished, bland, or grindy; a view I found to absolutely be the case. Only here, only recently, have I seen people popping up saying that it was the best one ever.
 

Lentic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,836
It all went downhill after 2.

Snake Eater was more of the same with some crappy mechanics thrown in like the eating and stealth meter.

4 was sort of a step up in terms of presentation, but I thought the gameplay took a massive step back.

I really miss the tighter gameplay. Stealth games are annoying to play a lot of the time and I thought 2 gave the perfect amount of control to the player.
 

Sumio Mondo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,935
United Kingdom
MGS4 was terrible but I enjoyed Peace Walker a bit even though the Acid games were superior Metal Gear games to me and MGSV had its moments and was really addictive. The story sucked in all three games though.
 

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,865
MGS should have really ended with MGS2. Everything that was incisive and strong in the series was washed away with MGS3's blockbuster presentation and character-driven plots that served no purpose except humanize pieces of shit characters for no payoff than digging your own grave because Kojima couldn't manage to reconcile that Big Boss was a turbo-dictator.
 

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,684
I agree, I think by the time 4 hit he was no longer ahead of the curve. MGS4 looked dated outside of it's cutscenes even at launch, something that had never happened before
Fortunately Kojima's trademark quirk carried it a bit, but over all it was super forgettable for me.

I really enjoyed V, but again it felt just like a Kojima variant of a genre I had been playing for a decade at that point.
 

eXistor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,303
I agree it peaked with 3, but MGS4 has some great moments and MGSV has a great basis for a classic game, that one was just bogged down by way too much bullshit. They lost focus after 3.
 

jsnepo

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,648
For story yes. Last great one was in 2004 when MGS3 was released. MGS4 had so much potential but the execution was terrible filled with cheesy moments. MGSV was top notch in the gameplay department but fell short narratively. The intro and the first mission was actually great but after introducing the motherbase, it all went down for me.
 

Javier23

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,904
Agreed. Every MGS has remained genuinely special for one reason or another, but they've all also been flawed since 3, which was the last truly great MGS game.

MGS 1-3 were just perfect, and I'm perfectly content not even trying to rank them over each other.
 

LiquidSolid

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,731
lol no. MGS1 and MGS3 were masterpieces, sure, but while MGS2, MGS4, Peace Walker and MGSV don't quite reach their heights and I have some issues with some of the things in them (hell, I was a super fan of the MG franchise up until MGS4 killed my interest in the story), they're still great games. MGSV in particular was a masterpiece in so many areas, it just fell apart in one and I blame most of that on Konami's fuckery.