I always suspected they originally wanted to make her be related to Kenobi rather than Skywalker. This is completely a baseless assumption on my part btw.
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Lets discuss Kylo Ren (Last Jedi spoilers)
- Thread starter Mondy
- Start date
I don't think people care enough about these new characters to watch three more movies about them.
I can barely handle another movie with them let alone 3 more at this point.
People who don't like kylo ren do not understand what makes the sequel trilogy any good at all
Also that minimizing garbage about Laura Dern being lame is offensive and you should be ashamed of yourself for saying that about one of the best actresses of the last half century. Watch Blue Velvet and Enlightened and then come back at me saying she is pointless and boring
Also that minimizing garbage about Laura Dern being lame is offensive and you should be ashamed of yourself for saying that about one of the best actresses of the last half century. Watch Blue Velvet and Enlightened and then come back at me saying she is pointless and boring
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I like the idea of Kylo Ren. The execution, not so much.
I do like that he genuinely appeared to give a damn about Rey, though. It would have been a bold as hell move to have her join him.
About as likely as Yoda being a sith, but bold.
I do like that he genuinely appeared to give a damn about Rey, though. It would have been a bold as hell move to have her join him.
About as likely as Yoda being a sith, but bold.
Kylo Ren is probably the best character in all of Star Wars.
Also, I don't ever remember seeing Dern in any of the promotional material; I remember her casting being announced then forgetting about it until I saw her in the movie.
Also, I don't ever remember seeing Dern in any of the promotional material; I remember her casting being announced then forgetting about it until I saw her in the movie.
Would have been very interesting with Finn possibly turning her back at the end of IX. That would have been a twist I would not have seen coming though. I still loved that scene. It was fantastic and emotional.
They don't fight in VIII, and he fights better than her. In VII there is context, he doesn't want to kill her and he's hurt. But we're repeating this for the hundredth time.
Also I doubt they actually have a duel in IX.
Anakin killed children - in fact he used the term "slaughtered like animals" - and he was redeemed in the end. Ben is just an amateur in comparison, so he has a long way to go before he's irredeemable.
Thank you, that's exactly how i have felt about him from the start. Sure, he's a tortured soul which could make for a compelling villain, but why does he feel that way, was it something about his upbringing, a specific event, a combination of factors? Give me a reason to care about him beyond "he's conflicted!"
Yeah, I've heard this awful argument plenty of times before, but you guys keep telling yourselves whatever you want to convince yourself. He got blown out by someone who used a lightsaber for 5 seconds. Having your main villain of a trilogy get beaten by the hero and look like a bitch in the first of the three movies is poor writing. In VIII, he was looking like a complete moron on one side of a mountain while Rey was saving everyone from the other end by being a badass force user.
The guy is a terrible villain.
Really wish they would have made that 30 seconds "I'm going to kill my nephew" flashback from Luke 30 minutes. Would have fleshed out both of their characters and Snoke, and fixed a lot of dumb useyourimagination.gif type of writing they went with instead.
In last jedi expanded edition
Ben think Rey still care about him since she didn't kill him when he still unconscious.
Rey briefly consider kill him but she let the force decide his fate
I hope Ben goes full berserk in episode IX. Would be a nice ending for him and a cool contrast from Vader.
Yup, yup, and yup.
And the way they tried to have Rey lure him to the light side was just laughable. Thanks for reminding me how much TLJ ruined SW for me OP. :(
Kylo Ren is the best thing about both Force Awakens and Last Jedi.
My only complaint is that I almost feel like they put too much character development into Kylo Ren in Last Jedi considering there's still one whole film to go. Kylo Ren at the finale of Last Jedi was kind of a one note character who just wanted to kill everything (or let the past die, as he says), which makes me worry that he's not going to have much in the way of development in Episode 9 considering he's essentially in his "final form" already
My only complaint is that I almost feel like they put too much character development into Kylo Ren in Last Jedi considering there's still one whole film to go. Kylo Ren at the finale of Last Jedi was kind of a one note character who just wanted to kill everything (or let the past die, as he says), which makes me worry that he's not going to have much in the way of development in Episode 9 considering he's essentially in his "final form" already
Don't like him as a villain, he could be a good foil for Rey but as a villain he's cringe worthy with all of his tantrums and that whole line about being seduced by the light never even making any sort of sense.
I've said this before but the intimidating part about him is that he seems like a child with a nuke instead of somebody like Vader who has his outbursts but is clearly much more controlled and cold. And while that can be scary sure, it just makes him seem incredibly childish and just not a villain I care to see more of.
I've said this before but the intimidating part about him is that he seems like a child with a nuke instead of somebody like Vader who has his outbursts but is clearly much more controlled and cold. And while that can be scary sure, it just makes him seem incredibly childish and just not a villain I care to see more of.
Kylo Ren's arc is being held back by the way the trilogy is structured. Of course he (or Rey for that matter) weren't going to turn half way through TLJ. With the way things are set up, the trilogy would end then and there. There needs to be an actual possibility for it to happen if they want to keep toying with the idea. I can see a heroic sacrifice happening right at the end of IX, but that would be the most cliche and boring way to do it.
Of course the main protagonist and antagonist caring about each other and thinking the other can be redeemed is interesting in its own right, but the whole situation loses a lot of potential when it can't actually happen.
Of course the main protagonist and antagonist caring about each other and thinking the other can be redeemed is interesting in its own right, but the whole situation loses a lot of potential when it can't actually happen.
Considering how TFA kind of beats you over the head with potential links between Rey and Luke, I wouldn't be surprised.
I really don't mind Rey being a nobody but I just wish Last Jedi did more with it
She doesn't know her parents and she got a force vision when she took his saber. Big whoop.
And was having visions/dreams of Luke before the movie even starts
not saying he can't be redeemed just killing Han sort of telegraphed how his arc will play out. unless they throw a curve ball and he survives ep IX just pretty obvious it'll be another self sacrifice "in the end he did the right thing" ending, there's just no suspense or interest in conflict there, though there really wasn't with anakin either
Yeah, TLJ failed to make Rey a seemingly more interesting character than she currently is. I don't think her being a Skywalker or a Kenobi would have made any sense, but the issue with her character is that she's kind of... bland. She's basically Luke the hero but what made Luke interesting was his filial ties to Vader and Leia and how he dealt with the fact that his father was a monster and his mentors were constantly telling him that killing him was the only way and ultimately Luke's disobedience brought him victory which completed his character and solidified him as an iconic hero of this franchise. I don't feel like they're doing anything interesting with Rey in comparison.
Oh yeah, it's pretty much inevitable.
There'll be a short timeskip, like maybe a year, and Rey will show up with a lightsaber she build by herself, which Ben will indicate completes her training, then Rey will spend most of the movie trying to convince Ben to abandon the dark side and then at some point they'll fight and Ben will lose and then realise the error of his ways after Rey gives an emotional speech and then for some reason Ben will die sacrificing himself for whatever reason and Rey will tell the galaxy he was a hero or something.
Ben Solo had a lot of potential but he's really just a bad Vader expy and given how the last two movies aped most of their story beats from the original trilogy I'm pretty sure the third one will too.
TLJ at least gave an inkling for why Snoke was able to attract him to the dark side.
Still an incredibly boring and uninteresting character.
Still an incredibly boring and uninteresting character.
Rey being a nobody could have been a fantastic lesson for Luke to give Rey regarding the Force. It would have been a good chance for Luke to further echo Ben Kenobi and talk more about how The Force goes through all living things and isn't necessarily tied to bloodlines or anything physical. Like, it could have been the single best way to get things regarding The Force back to the OT mindset as humanly possible without outright retconning things. Instead, the revelation that Rey is a nobody is just kind of thrown out there and nothing is really done with that (barring Episode 9 revisiting it).
Regarding Rey being kind of bland... I dunno, I don't feel like she's bland but I don't feel like she grew much (if at all) in Last Jedi. Her function in the plot is more or less simply to prove Luke wrong and that's it.
I think he's the best character in the new trilogy. But I still think he was disappointing in TLJ. Came off more like a cartoon caricature of himself with how angry and emo he gets. I don't know if he ever has a moment of cold competence in the entire film. He was so much more of a badass in TFA.
I think you are right about what they are trying to do with the character but I agree with the OP that it hasnt been portrayed very well. You dont spend enough time with him to really get a grasp on where he is mentally. In that regard I think TFA did a better job with Kylo.
He's not really supposed to be a badass though. He's not really supposed to be a competent leader, either. Hux spends most of The Force Awakens openly calling out Kylo Ren for fucking up all the time
Holy shit. How did I not realize Laura Dern was in Jurrasic Park until now?! Jiminy....old age is getting me.
For me, Kylo's best quality is that he has no one quality. He is a well-conceived character who isn't always well-written. But like a realistic character, he goes between moments of emoness and baddassery. They're all him, and TFA did a great job balancing it all. TLJ did fine work too, in all honesty. Just something about TFA landed a little better for me with Kylo.
There's a lot that they could have done with Luke and Rey in TLJ but none of it happened. Their encounter ultimately felt pointless and disappointing. Kinda like the whole film imo.
I think the worst part of Rey in TLJ for me was the dark side of the Force being a hole in the ground and how she just went nope, I don't need the darkness so easily which to me felt like an extremely silly way to shrug off something that's supposed to be highly seductive and alluring.
Back to Kylo Ren though, the lack of exposition with how Snoke seduced his topless swole body was disappointing as well. They could have done more there.
The lack of anything regarding Snoke was super disappointing. He sits around acting like Palpatine and then gets cut in half.
Anakin in the prequels never seemed like the kind of person who would grow up to be Darth Vader. Not that he isn't capable of doing terrible things, but literally his personality and mannerisms and everything about him don't add up. I always felt like that was one of the biggest problems with the prequels is that they're supposed to be this character study of Vader before he became Vader but nothing about Anakin seems like it would make a person grow into someone with Vader's cruel, cold, ruthless personality. I feel like a someone like Azula from Avatar the Last Airbender is the kind of person more likely to grow into an adult with Vader's overall personality, beliefs, and mannerisms.
Kylo Ren felt like what an actual fallen prequel Anakin would have grown up into.
I like him as a villain in TFA but when it comes to The Last Jedi, like all things Last Jedi, I'm really scratching my head where they're going to go with him. Kylo Ren seems like he's a capable threat as an underling.
I don't think Kylo is redeemable the way Vader is redeemable. Him killing Han Solo was a moral event horizon. And ReyLo is my NOTP.
Kylo Ren felt like what an actual fallen prequel Anakin would have grown up into.
I like him as a villain in TFA but when it comes to The Last Jedi, like all things Last Jedi, I'm really scratching my head where they're going to go with him. Kylo Ren seems like he's a capable threat as an underling.
I don't think Kylo is redeemable the way Vader is redeemable. Him killing Han Solo was a moral event horizon. And ReyLo is my NOTP.
If they elaborate on his past I think he can become a great character. He's definitely an interesting villain so far. Like Vader if he was young, not crippled, inexperienced and totally unhinged.
Only thing I don't like is his BLATANT Vader-ness. Like, he literally worships Vader. That's a little heavy handed, no? Why couldn't he turn dark for his own reasons? Simply being related to Anakin is enough for him to sufficiently be his shadow - he doesn't need to outright idolize him.
Only thing I don't like is his BLATANT Vader-ness. Like, he literally worships Vader. That's a little heavy handed, no? Why couldn't he turn dark for his own reasons? Simply being related to Anakin is enough for him to sufficiently be his shadow - he doesn't need to outright idolize him.
