what would you expect a discussion in 700 years looking back at germany's conquests to look like, though?
Most of the rest of the Mongol Empire survived just as long though. In the late 13th Century, the Mongol Empire fragmented into four major successor khanates. All four of them survived into the mid-14th Century, where they all began to break apart by roughly 1340 to 1360 for various reasons. Two in particular were devastated by the Black Death at that time. However, smaller Mongol/Tatar states lasted for centuries after that.Fair, I forgot about that element of the empire surviving for a while.
Nah they got fucked up by the communists. They didn't even know the truth about their history until the 20th century because the communists were so scared they'd gain a sense of nationalism and rise up.Modern Mongolia is comically low-key given their heritage. They're probably up to something and just biding their time.
And yet they were repelled 3 times by tiny Vietnam, how about that huh.
(that was the only history fact regarding them i remember from my days in school)
The Polish repelled themI think the Serbians beat them back as well? Maybe it was another Eastern European country.
I thought it was Poland or Hungary.I think the Serbians beat them back as well? Maybe it was another Eastern European country.
The Mongol Art of War, The Mongol Empire, and The Mongol Conquests in World History, all by Timothy May, are really good places to start.Any good history books on the Mongol Empire someone would recommend?
Fascinating how people admire these monsters and vilify more recent Empires and colonial powers. Is all that's required to admire mass butchers and genocidal maniacs a gulf of time between then and now?
The Mongols slaughtered nearly 5% of the world population at that time.
90% of the Population of Persia
50% of Ukraine
50% of Hungary
30 to 50% of fucking China!
So, the reason the mongol empire isn't looked upon fondly is pretty simple: they destroyed culture, language, knowledge, wealth. They were like a plague of locusts. They did not progress the societies they conquered, but rather regressed them.
I am appalled.
The Mongols slaughtered nearly 5% of the world population at that time.
90% of the Population of Persia
50% of Ukraine
50% of Hungary
30 to 50% of fucking China!
90% of Persia? Of all questionable numbers this one is the questionable-est.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_under_the_Mongol_EmpireAncient sources described Genghis Khan's conquests as wholesale destruction on an unprecedented scale in certain geographical regions, causing great demographic changes in Asia. According to the works of the Iranian historian Rashid al-Din (1247–1318), the Mongols killed more than 700,000 people in Merv and more than a million in Nishapur. The total population of Persia may have dropped from 2,500,000 to 250,000 as a result of mass extermination and famine.
Its also a matter of recorded history. The people slapped around by the Mongols ended up writing most of the pop history surrounding them (versus other empires making sure to run pr in recording histories). It's why you do have a massive over correction now where people are trying to reevaluate them as an empire and probably go a little too far in absolving them of shit.The biggest reason the Mongolian Empire isn't remembered in the same way Rome or Persia is likely comes down to the length of time it spent at its peak which was <100 years.
Yeah, it's not surprising they were not kind in writing down the history of an empire that killed so much of their countries population. It's definetly true that the viewpoints of the primary sources (which were in the places invaded) have a huge impact on how history views one event or another.Its also a matter of recorded history. The people slapped around by the Mongols ended up writing most of the pop history surrounding them (versus other empires making sure to run pr in recording histories). It's why you do have a massive over correction now where people are trying to reevaluate them as an empire and probably go a little too far in absorbing them of shit.
That said, the Khwarazmians did totally start shit.
Its also a matter of recorded history. The people slapped around by the Mongols ended up writing most of the pop history surrounding them (versus other empires making sure to run pr in recording histories). It's why you do have a massive over correction now where people are trying to reevaluate them as an empire and probably go a little too far in absolving them of shit.
That said, the Khwarazmians did totally start shit.
If it were, we wouldn't have Y'allqaeda whining about states rights in the Civil War.
Do you guys think a few hundred years from now people will the Nazis like we see the mongol empire? Or are the photos and video evidence of the atrocities going to prevent that from happening?
I did a double take when I saw the thread title and assumed it was a parody thread or something.
OP where's the Nazi Germany appreciation thread yo
Mah, that saying has always been bullshit. History is written by everyone who has ever written anything down. As far as victors go, all victors eventually become losers, as all empires eventually crumble or decline. Both the conquerors and their enemies leave their own accounts behind.
because it's cool to love non-European empires while it's cool to vilify European empires.Fascinating how people admire these monsters and vilify more recent Empires and colonial powers. Is all that's required to admire mass butchers and genocidal maniacs a gulf of time between then and now?
Which quite frankly, I don't understand. The British Empire committed mass genocide in India during the Bengal Famine, The Romans pretty much wiped out Gallic culture during Ceasar's Conquest. Yet people glorify these civilizations, and label the Mongols as bloodthirsty asian savages when in reality they did alot for the technological advancement of Europe and Asia (connecting the two contitents together via trade, strengthening the role of the Silk Rode, etc)
The Crown for A King scene did, in fact, come from them.They were definitely great at killing people. The real life Dothraki.
I believe it!
There was a huge thread about that at the old place. Many of them are active posters here even though they got banned at the old place.
Mah, that saying has always been bullshit. History is written by everyone who has ever written anything down. As far as victors go, all victors eventually become losers, as all empires eventually crumble or decline. Both the conquerors and their enemies leave their own accounts behind.
A historian is someone who tries to piece together the truth of what happened from these disparate accounts. In order to do that though, a good historian needs to both be objective and willing to look at history from a variety of angles. For example, it is okay to say both that the Mongols were wildly successful conquerors who laid the groundwork for future states, and that the Mongols butchered a shocking number of people and devestated entire countries to a horrific degree.
They weren't continuously conquering lands and slaughtering people by the millions. The lack of some kind of maintenance, for lack of a better term, period for the Mongols is why they aren't seen as contributing much to human progress.
I wonder if we'd speaking Farsi right now if the Mongol Horde didn't happen.
There is at least merit in reevaluating the Mongols to try and sort out the exagurations from what actually happened due to the nature of how their history was recorded around the old world, though obviously we have to be careful of over correcting and romanticizing them.Wtf is people's obsession with appreciating oppressive genocidal regimes. Another 50 years we'll get Third Reich appreciation Pol Pot appreciation threads.
The British Empire also did some good, which may surprise some people! I wonder if anyone has heard of the West Africa Squadron. They were formed in 1808, a year after the Slave Trade Act was passed, and their aim was to suppress the atlantic slave trade. Between 1808 and 1860 they captured 1600 slave ships and freed 150,000 Africans. There are other examples, the most recent one being standing up to the nazis.