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VaporSnake

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,603
I dislike the PT as much as anyone, but as an artist there's a clear creativity on display in those movies that can't be ignored, from the stunning locales (Naboo, Kamino, Geonosis, Felucia. Coruscant) to the cool and inspired pre-imperial ship designs and armor. The movies themselves are pretty trashy, but the visual design of those movies are legendary imo, compared to the sequel trilogy which hasn't really taken any risks or shown us very interesting things whatsoever.

Perhaps the content itself of a George Lucas backed sequel trilogy would falter, but I really doubt George Lucas would just tell the art teams "Eh, give them shit they've all seen before in a slightly different package" at the very least we would have visited more interesting locations and seen more interesting things, versus "Uh...i guess lets do another desert planet even though we've recently introduced 3 other desert planets"
 

Mocha

Member
Dec 9, 2017
930
I agree he's a brilliant story teller, maybe his writing isn't great but he knows how to build a world and illustrate a scene.
 

Tanerian

Member
Feb 24, 2018
1,380
Anyone who planned out the movies as like.. an actual trilogy would have done better.

Instead of this awful jumble of directors/writers who just seemed intent on undoing everything set up in the previous films.
 

Deleted member 15227

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,819
It was Lucas' right to destroy or elevate his franchise as he saw fit.

Unfortunately he handed it over to Disney who had no fucking idea.
 
Oct 31, 2017
9,627
It's a quick scene that is a pretty obvious nod towards him dying in A New Hope. The prequel trilogy largely does not stand up already. Episodes 1/2 not holding up has already been established. I don't think TFA will be looked down upon as much for having a super death star as much as you think. The ST backlash as a whole only really got strong once RoS disappointed everyone.

I rewatched both TPM and AotC quite recently, and I think both of them are better Star Wars than both of JJ's, I'm serious.

And I hated Attack of the Clones for the longest time.

People like to hate on the "acting" and characters of the PT, but I'd argue that all of the mains are better and more interesting than all of the ST characters. And that the acting/dialogue is deliberately stilted/hammy by intent, like melodramatic plays.

With respect to the ST lead mains:

Rey is essentially Luke 2.0, but more boring somehow. Primarily due to the loss in the familial dynamic that Luke Skywalker had with Vader (& no I am absolutely not figuring in the shoehorned Palpatine reveal). She had familial angst too, but IMHO, it is way more poorly executed than both Skywalker characters familial troubles. Primarily because in 1, she has no family, 2 her family doesn't matter, and 3 tries to pull a fast one and fails miserably, laughably.

Finn as a lifetime conditioned Stormtrooper turned sudden crisis of conscience comedic relief is totally unbelievable, and frankly quite insulting actually. Not to mention his completed """""arc""""" in TRoS.

And Poe is just a good pilot who gets frustrated at times, and that's pretty much it. He is no Han Solo, that's for damn sure. But hey, Oscar Isaac is a great actor (they all are), but Poe is completely uninteresting.

Kylo Ren/Ben Solo is only kind of interesting, and it's mostly the dynamic of his legacy, heritage, upbringing, and stuff in TLJ. But even then, TLJ essentially dumps all over the arc, legacy, and feats of Luke Skywalker as a character; essentially rendering him and the OT, a failure.

Han Solo & Leia remain virtually unchanged ironically, except for the status of their relationship, which also failed and was undone to specifically facilitate these new films' core drama.

And that's a lot of the problem, the core of the emotion and drama from these films comes from the undoing of the classic films and the characters. It feels artificial, because it is.

It's not just the Starkiller Base that alone is the source of TFA's failure, it is merely one aspect.

And as I mentioned in another post, Star Wars (and I am talking the six, actual Star Wars films here, nothing tertiary/outside of them) was always a constellation of George Lucas's primary interests in life, distilled into these films, just how all art is made. Yet people love to hold these facts over him as if it's some sort of failure/weakness, which couldn't be further from the truth.

The new films are a constellation of Original Trilogy Star Wars iconography and high-level story beats and they come across as total facsimile/fan-fiction/almost-parody in their execution, despite superficially being well produced/put together (not factoring TRoS as it is indefensible, straight garbage).
 

TDLink

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,411
More interesting, for sure. Better? No way of knowing, and definitely not a guarantee.
 

Valcrist

Tic-Tac-Toe Champion
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,707
It still amuses me that people didn't want someone to keep working on the series they created themself so badly. Everything else is fanfiction tbh. Anything Lucas has said about the series is the true canon. Good or bad. I'd take more bad Lucas movies over most of what we got. Well, at least we got Rogue One out of it.
 

Sweeney Swift

User Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,743
#IStandWithTaylor
His Ep 8 would have been absolutely worse than Rian's and he wouldn't have pulled off an hour of filmmaking quite like the last hour of Rogue One

Aside from those two films? He could have not done worse than the rest of Disney's SW output

Given 6 attempts previously, he knocked it out of the park four times (original trilogy and ROTS). 4/6. Disney and Kathleen both fucking wish they had that quality success ratio, they're 2/6
 

Samiya

Alt Account
Banned
Nov 30, 2019
4,811
Time to post this again:

medium.com

George Lucas’ Episode VII

Everything we know about George’s vision for the seventh Star Wars movie.

Whillies of the Force? LOL

On a positive side, The Darth Talon art is glorious and much improved:

1*-ez8L1awc_mE6G4kac6Gwg.jpeg
 

Samiya

Alt Account
Banned
Nov 30, 2019
4,811
We would definitely get some actually new and cool ship designs if it was made by him instead of rehash city. It is all about the toys and models.

This is my stance (although this is to the credit of the art department of Lucas Arts back in the prequel era). The prequels had amazing worldbuilding and ship design. Their art books are a great testament to the great designs of the films.
 

Deleted member 7051

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,254
Yes because exploring the microbiotic world of the midichlorians would be so much better than what we got, right?

Compared to "oh hey the Jedi are destroyed. Again." and "oh hey it's Rebels vs Empire. Again."?

Yes, it would have been better. It would've been different, something new. Presumably it would have also been trippy as shit, going by designs in The Clone Wars for this stuff.
 

Tedmilk

Avenger
Nov 13, 2017
1,916
If George being in charge would have meant a clear plotline running through the trilogy it'd have a big chance at being better, yes.
 

cognizant

Member
Dec 19, 2017
13,756
George is a bit of an introvert, which hasn't lessened with age, which means it's challenging for him to clarify his intent to people especially when under pressure and in front of many people. It's why he resorts to "more intense" and "it's like poetry". Any introvert will tell you (and I am one myself) how tough it is to explain to other people what you're feeling, and what you mean to say. This is why he had some of the greatest actors of all time at his disposal, all of them giving the worst performances of their careers. (edit: except for McDiarmid!!!)

I don't see that element of his directing changing if he had made another trilogy. As others have said, he's incredibly imaginative and has exciting ideas, which is why he's a successful producer. But very hit and miss as a director, especially when it comes to handling his actors. ANH was lightning in a bottle, the excitement of doing something new with actors who trusted in his vision, and weren't afraid to call out bullshit with Ford's famous line "You can type this shit George, but you sure can't say it."

JJ is brilliant with actors, but is a horrendous storyteller, so is kind of similar to George, in that they both should have stuck to producing rather than directing.

Ultimately tough to tell if Lucas would have made a better trilogy. Would Lucas have learned his lessons from the PT and trust more in a screenwriter's wisdom? Or would he have doubled down and wrote and directed it himself again? Would his introvert nature have evolved during the last decade to the point where he learned the valuable lesson to stop caring what other people think so much, enabling him to clarify his thoughts to his cast better?

I don't know! Talk to me George! Tell me your feelings!
 
Last edited:

Lupercal

Banned
Jan 9, 2018
1,028
Anybody who saw Red Tails knows that George is finished as a Writer & Director.
Let him outline the main story and then have competent writers tighten it up, get a great director and off course a world class editor.
 

Yossarian

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,265
I doubt he could make something like TLJ. Not without a good writer like Kasdan (sp?) to work with.
 

Deleted member 11822

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,644
If he wasn't a director and didn't write the dialogue, then possibly.

Came here to say this.

His core concept for Star Wars was somewhat original, but A New Hope was saved by the editing team.
Fast forward to the prequel movies. He is responsible for three bad movies that were poorly written, and directed.
So no I see no reason to believe that Lucas would be capable of saving this franchise.
 

CloudWolf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,631
Only if Lucas wasn't the only writer (story by is fine, but keep him away from writing dialogue or screenplays) and was kept far away from the directing chair.

The dream is if these sequels would've been written by Lucas + Kasdan again.
 

Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
11,186
Only if Lucas wasn't the only writer (story by is fine, but keep him away from writing dialogue or screenplays) and was kept far away from the directing chair.

The dream is if these sequels would've been written by Lucas + Kasdan again.
Filtered Lucas is can bring out some good stuff, first two films, the clone wars and some of the RotJ is a testament to this. It's pure unfiltered Lucas is what's not so great and even he knows this.
 

CloudWolf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,631
Filtered Lucas is can bring out some good stuff, first two films, the clone wars and some of the RotJ is a testament to this. It's pure unfiltered Lucas is what's not so great and even he knows this.
Absolutely, that's why I said he shouldn't be the only writer because we saw how badly that ended with the prequels. People also always seem to forget Lucas co-wrote all the Indiana Jones movies and Raiders, Temple and Last Crusade are all fantastic films.
 

Bigwombat

Banned
Nov 30, 2018
3,416
Wait the same batshit story that was supposed to take place in someone's body? With midichlorans and shit? I think I'll take what we got instead
 

Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
11,186
Wait the same batshit story that was supposed to take place in someone's body? With midichlorans and shit? I think I'll take what we got instead
It was supposed to explain what bringing balance to the force actually meant and the struggle between light and dark which is why he referred to it as the complete story. Obviously the exact opposite of trying to milk the universe storywise until it's no longer financially feasible.
 

IcyInferno

Member
Oct 26, 2017
373
He had some pretty crazy ideas for the original trilogy if you go back and read the earlier drafts.. like Han being a green alien Wookiee hunter, Obi-Wan and Yoda helping Luke physically as force ghosts in the final battle with the Emperor, the names of the light side (Ashla) and dark side (Bogan), etc.

He was very imaginative with the original and prequel trilogy. Just have someone else direct and write the script. I think some of those earlier drafts made it into a dark horse comic but I hope we can see some of his alternate ideas for all 3 trilogies play out in a cartoon 'what if?' Series on Disney+
 

Bigwombat

Banned
Nov 30, 2018
3,416
It was supposed to explain what bringing balance to the force actually meant and the struggle between light and dark which is why he referred to it as the complete story. Obviously the exact opposite of trying to milk the universe storywise until it's no longer financially feasible.
THE PARTS OF LUCAS' EPISODE 7 THAT DIDN'T MAKE THE CUT
One small detail we know about the story of the later Lucas trilogy is that it would have focused on diving into the "microbiotic world," where viewers would learn more about the Force and the way it works. Lucas planned to dig deeper into the science of midi-chlorians, the biological explanation for the Force that was first mentioned (and contended with by fans) in The Phantom Menace.


For James Cameron's 2018 Story of Science Fiction book, Lucas explained that his trilogy would have focused on "the Whills," an ancient life form that fed on the Force. According to Lucas, the Whills essentially "are the Force." The midi-chlorians within Force-sensitive beings communicate directly with the Whills, allowing the super-powerful beings to control the galaxy.

"Back in the day, I used to say ultimately what this means is we're just cars, vehicles, for the Whills to travel around in […] We're vessels for them," Lucas said.

While the Whills would have been a new element added to Lucas' sequel trilogy, they aren't new creations. In Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplay, Lucas is quoted as saying that in an early version of the script for A New Hope, the entire story was going to be told from the perspective of the Whills.

That's a polygon article on the direction Lucas wanted to go.
 

Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
11,186
THE PARTS OF LUCAS' EPISODE 7 THAT DIDN'T MAKE THE CUT
One small detail we know about the story of the later Lucas trilogy is that it would have focused on diving into the "microbiotic world," where viewers would learn more about the Force and the way it works. Lucas planned to dig deeper into the science of midi-chlorians, the biological explanation for the Force that was first mentioned (and contended with by fans) in The Phantom Menace.


For James Cameron's 2018 Story of Science Fiction book, Lucas explained that his trilogy would have focused on "the Whills," an ancient life form that fed on the Force. According to Lucas, the Whills essentially "are the Force." The midi-chlorians within Force-sensitive beings communicate directly with the Whills, allowing the super-powerful beings to control the galaxy.

"Back in the day, I used to say ultimately what this means is we're just cars, vehicles, for the Whills to travel around in […] We're vessels for them," Lucas said.

While the Whills would have been a new element added to Lucas' sequel trilogy, they aren't new creations. In Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplay, Lucas is quoted as saying that in an early version of the script for A New Hope, the entire story was going to be told from the perspective of the Whills.

That's a polygon article on the direction Lucas wanted to go.
Why are you posting this, that's explicitly what I'm referring to?
 

NHarmonic.

▲ Legend ▲
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
10,297
I don't know if it would have been any good but it would have probably been more cohesive and wouldn't have treated earlier entries and characters so poorly.

Anakin in the prequels is the definition of treating a character poorly. The fault is even worse considering who he was to the whole star wars mythos.

Let's stop fooling ourselves. Lucas would have made something worse.
 

CloudWolf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,631
Wait the same batshit story that was supposed to take place in someone's body? With midichlorans and shit? I think I'll take what we got instead
1. That is part of a very early concept that likely wouldn't have been made in a movie even if Lucas was still attached. Nobody would be stupid enough to 'yes man' him again after the Prequels.
2. At least it's bizarre and weird vs. the painfully safe and boring routes that TFA en TROS took that shut down every potential interesting angle. I still cannot believe how absolutely nothing was done with the angle that Finn is essentially the proof that Stormtroopers can be good and turned and the fact that none of the Stormtroopers are in this war voluntarily.
 

Ushojax

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,931
He had some pretty crazy ideas for the original trilogy if you go back and read the earlier drafts.. like Han being a green alien Wookiee hunter, Obi-Wan and Yoda helping Luke physically as force ghosts in the final battle with the Emperor, the names of the light side (Ashla) and dark side (Bogan), etc.

He was very imaginative with the original and prequel trilogy. Just have someone else direct and write the script. I hope we can see some of his ideas play out in a cartoon 'what if?' Series on Disney+

George will never accept someone else overruling him or changing his ideas.

The only role that could ever work for him now is as a story advisor/creative consultant, he cannot have any real authority but he won't work on those terms. He is used to being Mr Star Wars but those days are rightly over.

Do we really want to return to a time where George can write a scene like "I hate sand" and everyone on the production has to pretend it isn't horrible? Where multiple racist caricature aliens can reach the screen without anyone being able to stop him? Where the only direction is "faster and more intense" while he sits in a chair drinking coffee?
 

Good4Squat

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
3,148
It might have been more interesting for better or worse than the bland middle of the road ones we got. With the exception of The Last Jedi, which had some interesting stuff going on.
 

SpokkX

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,495
Yes - he would have

With worse dialogue yes, but just imagine the memes that would have been produced
 

sox

Member
Oct 27, 2017
658
If RoS could have remotely stuck the landing we wouldn't be having this convo. That movie shit the bed so bad that it's turds broken space-time and made them hate the entire trilogy wholesale.
It made me retroactively appreciate Solo which I bagged at the time as being awful