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Let's Talk About Borderlands 3, Epic Store Exclusivity, And An Uncontrolled Market [Jim Sterling]
- Thread starter lashman
- Start date
Very disappointed in this video. While Jim admits that Epic's moneyhats are bad for consumers, he keeps calling it the correct thing to do.
I strongly disagree with that. Companies shouldn't use anti-consumer practices to achieve their goal, whatever that goal is.
I strongly disagree with that. Companies shouldn't use anti-consumer practices to achieve their goal, whatever that goal is.
This is what he was saying. No they shouldn't but since they can, they will. It's not correct for anyone but Epic and that's all that matters.
I used to follow the Jimquisition quite avidly, but ever since he turned into a troll I can't take him seriously anymore.
I mean, weren't his reviews back during his destructoid days at least 50% trolling? He often took deliberately controversial opinions for clicks
Did you watch the video? Because that would answer your question and not in the way you did.
You aren't listening closely to what he is saying. He is saying in a awful system, it's objectively correct, but it's an awful system so whether it's objectively correct or not doesn't much matter.
Watching this now, but I will say I guess his hate of steam overrides his pro-consumer position on things. Fact is the video has 1.3K likes and 140 dislikes so people agree with him that EPIC is doing the right thing.
The misinformation that Tim and Epic are putting out there is working perfectly.
This will never stop and Epic will keep playing this tactic.
Edit: Having watched the video he isn't wrong that companies don't give a shit and there is nothing to stop Epic in doing this, but he could have taken a stance that its shit and not "oh well nothing can be done", I dont think we should be apathetic simply because the people with the most money are going to win by default.
The misinformation that Tim and Epic are putting out there is working perfectly.
This will never stop and Epic will keep playing this tactic.
Edit: Having watched the video he isn't wrong that companies don't give a shit and there is nothing to stop Epic in doing this, but he could have taken a stance that its shit and not "oh well nothing can be done", I dont think we should be apathetic simply because the people with the most money are going to win by default.
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He's definitely giving Epic a get out of jail free card on this one.
"Look guys, I know their practices are s**t and you're upset about it. But they've got no other choice! This is how business works! They have to be s**t-heels!!"
He's technically correct to some extent. But his analysis strikes me as incredibly toothless. Completely rolling over to aggressive marketplace moves like this just doesn't strike me as his style.
I legit think his grudge with Valve has neutered him on this topic and sadly forced him (consciously or unconsciously) to walk back his pro-consumer / anti-capitalist platform. If anyone but Steam were caught in the EGS crossfire he'd be screaming foul from the rooftops. Hell, he'd have an entire YouTube Playlist dedicated to it.
Unfortunate. As I once believed he truly did walk the talk.
"Look guys, I know their practices are s**t and you're upset about it. But they've got no other choice! This is how business works! They have to be s**t-heels!!"
He's technically correct to some extent. But his analysis strikes me as incredibly toothless. Completely rolling over to aggressive marketplace moves like this just doesn't strike me as his style.
I legit think his grudge with Valve has neutered him on this topic and sadly forced him (consciously or unconsciously) to walk back his pro-consumer / anti-capitalist platform. If anyone but Steam were caught in the EGS crossfire he'd be screaming foul from the rooftops. Hell, he'd have an entire YouTube Playlist dedicated to it.
Unfortunate. As I once believed he truly did walk the talk.
He is finally starting to understand.
What remains is that consumers start doing their part, although i know my hope is futile.
What remains is that consumers start doing their part, although i know my hope is futile.
He is very apathetic in regards to the situation, which is odd given his channel is usually all about raging against corporate shit in the AAA space. I mean what he is saying is not incorrect but he does not seem to care that its happening.
To be honest it was not a good way to frame this one because while yes most of the time "gamers rise up" is absolutely the MEME it is, people are not upset about the "SJWS" or something stupid.
Sure, he admits that Epic is doing the correct move in the market. That said, he doesn't call them out. He just admits that it sucks for the customer.
I mean, I get it - he has a (legitimate btw) bone to pick with Steam and extrapolates that into Epic's tactics putting pressure on Valve being a potentially good thing. I just don't agree on a macro level even though he's right about certain details. Forest for the trees yada yada.
Nothing in the video disproves what the poster said. Jim is completely apathetic basically telling customers to suck it up cause that's how the world works.
"it's bad but that's how it works"
Loot boxes are also bad and how the market works, why he doesn't say the same thing? Of course cause it's steam this time.
You have to admit he sounds total like he doesn't care that EPIC is doing what they are in doing in this case "because it's allowed". Loot boxes are allowed too but he was extremely against those.
Imagine if Valve paid for exclusives. He'd probably make multiple videos about it per week for years.
CAAApitalism is my new favorite term lol this video is great.
Surprised to see that Jim of all people is providing the most calm and reasoned take.
Surprised to see that Jim of all people is providing the most calm and reasoned take.
This is better than his original take on the EGS, but he's still pulling punches because Steam Bad.
So unfortunate that his hate for Steam has made him so toothless when it comes to criticizing Epic. Epic's practice is crap no matter what, but it is made even worse for the consumer since their store and launcher is so laughably barebones in features that pc users have been accustomed to for the last 5-10 years. On top of all that, no discounts either from 3rd party sites that again PC users are accustomed to. If EGS had near feature parity to Steam and 3rd party website discounts then at least these exclusivity deals wouldn't feel so anti consumer.
Literally not what he says at all. He says the system needs checks and balances which aren't there. Maybe you should watch the video.
I watched the video, he says that but then he excuses the ones who exploit the lack of thereof. It's a bullshit reasoning, just cause you can do something doesn't mean it's not bad if you do it.
I'm not sure what kinds of "checks and balances" would prevent any console manufacturer or PC storefront from buying out exclusives. How can you force a developer/publisher not to sell to the highest bidder? Or force them to be on a storefront they don't want to be on?
Blaming "the system" seems lazy. There aren't a lot of alternative economic models that force manufacturers to sell to/through all viable marketplaces.
Blaming "the system" seems lazy. There aren't a lot of alternative economic models that force manufacturers to sell to/through all viable marketplaces.
He's not wrong. If Epic weren't forcing people to use their service, nobody would.
This is what every corporation does these days, use the money they have to strangle the competition, then force consumers to use an inferior service because there's no alternative. It sucks, but we aren't doing anything about it.
This is what every corporation does these days, use the money they have to strangle the competition, then force consumers to use an inferior service because there's no alternative. It sucks, but we aren't doing anything about it.
It seems I misunderstood that part. Thanks for clearing that up for me. English isn't my native language.
So he wants somebody to be the overall arbiter of the PC landscape?
Let's be upfront. The Epic Store is severely lacking in features. They understand it. Their revenue share is fairer and more attractive than the competition. But really, it's not enough. Maybe if you're up against GoG but they're not. They're up against Valve who have essentially monopolised PC gaming. I think brute force really is necessary in the context of Epic's current equipment (an under-baked storefront.) It's not friendly but it is viable and this is what Jim is iterating.
Personally - and this is coming from somebody who doesn't primarily game on PC - I welcome Epic's competition. Competition is healthy, especially in the circumstances presented here. Valve isn't an underdog. They are equipped to deal with Epic and hopefully they become more proactive in this respect. Jim has put up many videos criticising Valve's lack of awareness over the course of 2019 alone (their lack of intervening with that rape game comes to mind as a recent example.) I don't welcome Epic's tactics but they do entail a silver-lining: that Valve will presumably push for a more active role in managing their storefront.. whatever that entails.
Personally - and this is coming from somebody who doesn't primarily game on PC - I welcome Epic's competition. Competition is healthy, especially in the circumstances presented here. Valve isn't an underdog. They are equipped to deal with Epic and hopefully they become more proactive in this respect. Jim has put up many videos criticising Valve's lack of awareness over the course of 2019 alone (their lack of intervening with that rape game comes to mind as a recent example.) I don't welcome Epic's tactics but they do entail a silver-lining: that Valve will presumably push for a more active role in managing their storefront.. whatever that entails.
The Twitter thread Jim mentions in the video is worth reading by the way: https://twitter.com/CaseyExplosion/status/1113436371610492929
I don't know what exactly he "wants". He describes a rather nebulous concept of regulation, but I have no idea who or how this would actually happen (and I suspect he doesn't either.)
This is CAAApitalism, baby!
The thing that ha
This is a point that has always eluded me, I am unsure how the Epic Games Store is supposed to improve moderation and/or curation on Steam.
This is a point that has always eluded me, I am unsure how the Epic Games Store is supposed to improve moderation and/or curation on Steam.
He always had a trollish personality, and you only need to go back when he was defending Sonic 4, while attacking fans for not liking the new mechanics.
https://www.destructoid.com/sonic-team-justifies-sonic-4-s-notorious-physics-188594.phtml
Yeah it just makes me shake my head when people say it's "anti-consumer" amd "It's not how competition works." This is exactly how competition works. It's not bribery or corruption or conspiracy. It's a legal mutual business deal between two parties.
Have you read the thread in question ?
"Because you know what? They are right, that isn't how competition works. In fact, Epic/Tencent have no interest in competition! Their business plan is to force Valve out of business, so that when steam doesn't exist any more, they're the new monopoly and can make *ALL THE MONEY* "
"And what happens then, if Valve goes out of business and Steam shuts down for good? What happens to all those games you've bought over the years? Epic/Tencent won't care. In fact they'll probably be delighted because they can sell you games you used to own on their service! "
"So when I see The Gamers™ having their little heated gamer moments over yet another Epic exclusivity deal, even if it comes from a more reactionary place, the last thing I want to do is sneer at them. I want to tell them: "Yes, you're right! Let's pull that thread together!" "
Are you disputing or agreeing with that thread? Because it's not pro-Epic.
PC gaming was never like this since the beginning and never should be. People seem to forget that.
Best way to get me to not buy your game is to go against that.
Best way to get me to not buy your game is to go against that.
I've been very appreciative at him saying the quiet parts out loud the last few months. But then the sort of folks who like to use (especially PC) gaming consumption as a point of personal pride wouldn't be able to any more. The troubles of product differentiation and luxury goods in a nutshell really.
It kinda is how competition works, though that doesn't mean that it's right. It's not the sort of competition that's much preferable and would more likely result in Valve having to improve Steam to compete. That's not just a problem with how Epic works though, and more a problem with the entire system. Which Jim's video goes a bit more into.
Doesn't change the fact the poster seemed to agree with something they didn't read though.
You're right, it's how "competition" works. But it's not sane competition or one that is wanted. Which means it should be called out even more. I mean Google could just come in and buy out half of the industry. It would be competition. They could pay to cancel games on other platforms. It'd be competition. But it'd be counterproductive.
So yes, you're right it's "competition". But it certainly not a "good, competition is good !"
Because Epic isn't looking to compete.
I never thought I'd see the day where Jim would softball a company so much. Especially one who's screwing around with customers like this. This is his second video epic apologetics.
If epic is doing such an excellent job of plane in are fucked up system, then Bob has been doing an awful job. Because it had a long time where they could have abused deposition and squelched different forms of competition. They could have used Network effect and lockout strategies. But I guess they didn't take any of those obvious opportunities. What are they even doing over there. Terrible that capitalism.
If epic is doing such an excellent job of plane in are fucked up system, then Bob has been doing an awful job. Because it had a long time where they could have abused deposition and squelched different forms of competition. They could have used Network effect and lockout strategies. But I guess they didn't take any of those obvious opportunities. What are they even doing over there. Terrible that capitalism.
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