Let's talk about NieR Automata's latter half. (UNTAGGED SPOILERS!)

[Deleted member 8861]

UNTAGGED SPOILERS FOR AUTOMATA FOLLOW!

I finished NieR Automata a few weeks ago. I was starstruck by the end of Route A. The only thing I don't like about Route A is that since there were so many worthwhile sidequests, I had to stop following the main plot several times. It was that good. GOAT material.

Route B was pretty good. I already knew that it'd be a retelling, and as I said I fucking LOVED the story up to that point, so I enjoyed it. Particularly realizing that 9S was the one doing most of the work, lol.

Then Route C came. Route C's first two hours are fucking madness. I was absolutely mindblown when the opening credits started to roll again. I still can't forget the title card.

That said, the game almost uniformly goes downhill from that point for me...

I was either extremely shocked or not shocked at all by 2B's death and I don't know which. But I felt nothing, from the logic virus walk (fell into the pit too, hah) to her last moments. I thought we'd be getting something along the lines of A2-with-2B's-memories kind of deal so I guess I was either too shocked to feel anything or was expecting this anyway because screw you it's a Yoko Taro game.

Anyways, the game is just downhill after that for me. 9S' entire character arc is extremely predictable from the very moment he sees 2B die, save for the amazing Devola/Popola segment. And as for A2, her entire character felt like a retread of 9S and 2B to me. Routes A and B already dealt with characters who religiously hate machines. More could've been done with A2... Pascal's downfall was no more interesting to me. Again, Taro game, nice people's reasons for being collapse as a matter of course. 9S' entire "three boxes" segment was boring as shit, except the 21O boss which I got spoiled on (like the "humans are already extinct" twist).

I wanted to ask, why do people like Route C better than Routes A and B? What makes C better than the first half of the game after the initial segment?

Do people just really feel for Pascal and 9S?

 

[FiXalaS]

I'l agree with one thing..

more could've been done with A2.

To answer your question, Route C and beyond is basically non-stop drama and engaging combat at its best. It was beautiful.

 

[EndlessNever]

Wait what? The game is on a constant uphill from the start of the game. By the time you reach Route C, the game is firing on all cylinders for me personally.

 

[Jackpot]

I was not enamoured with the game's Route C. The very first level is still the best, followed by the amusement park.

The plot beats felt like the filler of an anime series that's been running for 100+ episodes.

 

[Elandyll]

To me, having never played a Taro game before, route B is where the game almost lost me.

Route A: Nice!
Route B: Wait, what? Really? Sigh.
Route C: Uh? Wait... Fuck! Oh my god what the Hell is happening?! This is Genius, but crazy!

 

[Deleted member 8861]

Wait what? The game is on a constant uphill from the start of the game. By the time you reach Route C, the game is firing on all cylinders for me personally.

Click to shrink...

9S' stuff with all the Boxes and most things A2 does are a drag for me. By the time you *reach* route C, yeah, it's going full speed. It's just that it slows down considerably after that for me.

 

[EndlessNever]

I still really liked Route B by the way, despite the overwhelming negativity towards it I see.

 

[Deleted member 8861]

To me, having never played a Taro game before, route B is where the game almost lost me.

Click to shrink...

That seems to be a common experience. I was expecting to be made to collect all weapons, so I didn't mind Route B all that much.

 

[Hektor]

I think you have been putting too much emphasis on the what rather than the how or why, especially in regards to 9S.

 

[Capra]

The plot beats felt like the filler of an anime series that's been running for 100+ episodes.

Click to shrink...

2B turning out to be 2E and having killed 9S countless times to reset his memory, leading to him having a dual-sided obsession with her that's half romantic and half homicidal, is filler?

I don't really get the complaint that 9S' arc is predictable. The revenge aspect is pretty obvious from the moment he sees A2 kill 2B but I feel like nothing from the first half can prepare you for the the sadistic glee with which Taro explores his descent into madness.

 

[Deleted member 8861]

I think you have been putting too much emphasis on the what rather than the how or why, especially in regards to 9S.

Click to shrink...

Perhaps. I've started another run right after, taking my sweet bloody time this time around (in my initial run, I finished both Route B and C in a single setting each). Hopefully I'll be able to enjoy it more this time around.

 

[Deleted member 8861]

2B turning out to be 2E and having killed 9S countless times to reset his memory, leading to him having a dual-sided obsession with her that's half romantic and half homicidal, is filler?

I don't really get the complaint that 9S' arc is predictable. The revenge aspect is pretty obvious from the moment he sees A2 kill 2B but I feel like nothing from the first half can prepare you for the the sadistic glee with which Taro explores his descent into madness.

Click to shrink...

I mean, I didn't see anything in 9S' descent to madness that I didn't think would happen. The 2E twist is absolutely stellar though. Just delivered a bit too abruptly for its effect to sink in, especially if you move on to the other ending right after.

 

[Mr.Deadshot]

I am not a fan of the whole Routes-concept. Never was.
I hope they skip that for the next game and make one unique playthrough.
So Route A was easily the best for me.

 

[Dust]

I generally feel Automata's story was a big letdown, especially compared to Nier.
I legit feel nothing and I did not sacrifice my save due to that.

After Nier's final ending I sat there pondering for some time, here there was just "that's it I guess" and I went to fill up my car.

 

[Deleted member 21003]

I resented route B.

 

[Arklite]

Route C is exciting to me due to the collapse and reveals, and as a result of being built upon through Route A and B. I did think Route B was worth the time to see both characters from an inner and outer perspective. I'll agree the game didn't shock me as much as I thought it would, but I found there's a lot to dwell on that makes everything somber and memorable IMO. Often it was more subtle than I expected.

 

[Arkeband]

I am not a fan of the whole Routes-concept. Never was.
I hope they skip that for the next game and make one unique playthrough.
So Route A was easily the best for me.

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I hope they do include it, as it's a Drakengard/Nier staple and the series should be itself and not make concessions to appease people who apparently aren't fans.

It adds a totally unique storytelling mechanism to these games that simply can't be found anywhere else outside of a few games like Dragon Quarter, which revealed more information upon subsequent playthroughs.

I thought Route B was fine, although I would have maybe done more to differentiate the parts that DO repeat so that people can't as easily incorrectly believe they're "being forced to play the same thing twice".

C was just a masterpiece, as long as you ignore the (fixed now?) bug that revealed a secret for 9S way too early.

 

[Deleted member 8861]

that revealed a secret for 9S way too early.

Click to shrink...

Wait, what?

 

[Tesser]

why do people like Route C better than Routes A and B? What makes C better than the first half of the game after the initial segment?

Click to shrink...

Because Route C is the moment where the game begins to reveal its true nature/intentions and you realize the horrid truth behind the events of the story. For one, it starts with such a great curveball and thankfully the added twist isn't entirely story-based too. The way the game fucks with the visuals/interface/controls - particularly when you're fighting the infected Yorha units, but more so when you're playing as 2B; where mere Machines are easy to deal with prior, they're now more challenging and problematic to avoid. Granted, it's a scripted segment but it's sufficiently executed to make the player feel desperate and uncertain on whether they're going to survive or not.

In regards to the characters, well, for one you answered your own question...

Do people just really feel for Pascal and 9S?

Click to shrink...

...given, up to that point, we've already seen that not all the Machines are focused on continual war and like the Androids are trying to find some kind of peaceful end to things, there is some manner of empathy to be had with the Machines. We've already learned up to that point that they've evolved to incorporate emotions/thoughts/feelings and have at least tried to architect some form of social/cultural structure, the player will feel there's some redemption and solution to this war that doesn't have to end in one side simply destroying the other entirely. Particularly when you find the "children" of the village destroyed and "dying" in much the same horrid way as the "adult/parent" Machines. Pascal especially is a likeable enough character, thus why the moral choice you make as A2 is even more gut-wrenching and difficult. Less a case of which option is "the best" and rather which option incurs the least suffering.

In the case of 9S, you learn from his interractions with 2B that he's not as logically-focused as 2B is and demonstrates a bit more of a "human" personality. He tries to be light-hearted and joke about the situation from time to time but still wants to succeed at the mission he's given. Personally I just enjoyed the wild "100% NUCLEAR" ride we're taken on immediately thereafter as we see him on a downward spiral, learning of the secrets behind Yorha and coming to the realization that there is no beneficial meaning/purpose to things and that he only exists simply for the Machines' benefit. Humanity is extinct, the war is being deliberately perpetrated for pure philosophical/evolutionary means and overall, there's generally no sense of hope left in anything. From a playing stand-point, the closing moments of Route C remind me a lot of the closing chapters in Spec Ops: The Line in that it becomes increasingly clear that there is no meaning to anything and that, like 9S, you're simply pushing on under the smallest of assumptions that there will be some degree of an answer or solution to the madness lying at the end point...when deep-down you know there isn't. Aside from that, I liked the frantic switch between A2 and 9S - having to fight two bosses at once - in the tower...and that's before we even get to Route E which is a great little "meta" moment.

One of the few games in the past few years that have had me narratively hooked from start to finish and wanting the main protagonist/character - in this case, 9S - to get some manner of a "happy" ending.

 

[Arkeband]

Wait, what?

Click to shrink...

I believe it's the Top Secret Black Box archive, originally it had the text for that reveal plus the text for the Disposal of YorHa in it by accident, which meant that 9S's "mind blown" cutscene later when you read it for the second time made no sense because he would have read it earlier with no reaction.

They patched it, I think. At least, on PS4.

 

[Deleted member 8861]

Because Route C is the moment where the game begins to reveal its true nature/intentions and you realize the horrid truth behind the events of the story. For one, it starts with such a great curveball and thankfully the added twist isn't entirely story-based too. The way the game fucks with the visuals/interface/controls - particularly when you're fighting the infected Yorha units, but more so when you're playing as 2B; where mere Machines are easy to deal with prior, they're now more challenging and problematic to avoid. Granted, it's a scripted segment but it's sufficiently executed to make the player feel desperate and uncertain on whether they're going to survive or not.

In regards to the characters, well, for one you answered your own question...



...given, up to that point, we've already seen that not all the Machines are focused on continual war and like the Androids are trying to find some kind of peaceful end to things, there is some manner of empathy to be had with the Machines. We've already learned up to that point that they've evolved to incorporate emotions/thoughts/feelings and have at least tried to architect some form of social/cultural structure, the player will feel there's some redemption and solution to this war that doesn't have to end in one side simply destroying the other entirely. Particularly when you find the "children" of the village destroyed and "dying" in much the same horrid way as the "adult/parent" Machines. Pascal especially is a likeable enough character, thus why the moral choice you make as A2 is even more gut-wrenching and difficult. Less a case of which option is "the best" and rather which option incurs the least suffering.

In the case of 9S, you learn from his interractions with 2B that he's not as logically-focused as 2B is and demonstrates a bit more of a "human" personality. He tries to be light-hearted and joke about the situation from time to time but still wants to succeed at the mission he's given. Personally I just enjoyed the wild "100% NUCLEAR" ride we're taken on immediately thereafter as we see him on a downward spiral, learning of the secrets behind Yorha and coming to the realization that there is no beneficial meaning/purpose to things and that he only exists simply for the Machines' benefit. Humanity is extinct, the war is being deliberately perpetrated for pure philosophical/evolutionary means and overall, there's generally no sense of hope left in anything. From a playing stand-point, the closing moments of Route C remind me a lot of the closing chapters in Spec Ops: The Line in that it becomes increasingly clear that there is no meaning to anything and that, like 9S, you're simply pushing on under the smallest of assumptions that there will be some degree of an answer or solution to the madness lying at the end point...when deep-down you know there isn't. Aside from that, I liked the frantic switch between A2 and 9S - having to fight two bosses at once - in the tower...and that's before we even get to Route E which is a great little "meta" moment.

One of the few games in the past few years that have had me narratively hooked from start to finish and wanting the main protagonist/character - in this case, 9S - to get some manner of a "happy" ending.

Click to shrink...

Thank you.

I've actually wondered if my feelings on Route C simply reflect what 9S feels (in how we both stopped caring about the world once 2B dies).

I didn't like the Tower segment very much- mostly because my framerate tanked throughout that entire scene. The bosses being identical balls that 2B had already fought in Route A just lowered the impact (but the delivery besides that was magnificent).

I'd been spoiled that humanity's extinct already before playing the game (as well as other stuff, like 21O coming up in Route C or Devola/Popola appearing and dying, say), so perhaps that contributed to me not caring much about those events. (I know the stories of Nier and Drakengard 1-2-3). But, I mean, it's obvious that there's some veneer of bullshit over the entire YoRHa philosophy from the get go, you can say that Route A entirely makes the point that machines have consciousness and personality and feelings and what have you and that's directly contrary to what all YoRHa units believe (and how 2B and 9S, particularly, act).

Let me be clear on one last thing- Ending E is still a 11/10 moment :P
I got into it somewhat accidentally (booted up Chapter Select right after getting childhood's en[D], repeated the final fight) and I was expecting to be made to collect all weapons for Ending E, so I was surprised when I realized I was actually proceeding to the final ending.
By the time I reached the ending (and I'd gotten partially spoiled on the save data erasure, too) I was literally applauding my screen.

 

[R_thanatos]

I think Route C is amazing , because it only works if you've paid attention in route A & B.

The whole deall with Yorha , pascal village and most importantly 9S deal .. like most of the side quest in Route A & B have an insane pay-off in route C ( except those stupid races ) it was amazing to see 9S , who acted so naive and full of questions act that way.
The fact that 9S knew about 2B true identity but did nothing only showcase how great Route C is when you've played Route A & B and got to know the npcs beforehand.

A masterpiece , a flawed game but a masterpiece regardless.

 

[TyrantGuardian]

Yeah I just honestly didn't care at all about any of the main characters..? Could not give less of a shit about 9S' grief or 2B dying. The only interesting part of the characters were in how they were used to bounce off ideas from NPC characters (Adam/Eve etc) and most of that stuff went away completely in the second half. I liked everything else about the story, but this was obviously a big detriment to my enjoyment of the game as a whole.

Also I called humanity being extinct literally the first time I heard the phrase "Glory to Mankind", haha.

 

[lusca_bueno]

I agree that first half of story is REALLY good (specially route B), it's more conventional too. But route C has this unique taste to it, in which the format goes a little crazy, 9S estabilishes a route through 3 concepts while discovering the true nature of YorHa (again), and A2 is kinda there to take over 2B's role as his executioner but at the same time she has to deal with her own issues and values being questioned by 2B acquired memories. I also like the Pascal sequence to be honest, his gameplay with the goliath falls in line with the aesthetic uniqueness we've been served from route B onwards, texts, hacking sequences, the logic virus, I really enjoy how the game is able to transform itself artistically to convey something in a different tone than usual.

And finally, the biggest factor to me enjoying route C a lot was the Tower. I just love those aesthetics and really, when I reached the library I went full crazy, I almost wish there were more Gestalt/RepliCant locations after that to explore and find some kind of connection because it was just so awesome. The final bosses were also great, that dynamic fight with Ko-shi/Ro-shi, and later a reduced but very honest final boss of your choice, it had an impact on me, aesthetically it looks varied and well built all around.

 

[sku]

I notice all of your comments about Route C are about the story, not about game play or any other aspect of a video game. The battle against the other androids, the swaps between 9S and A2, the epic ascent of the tower--these gameplay moments made Route C salient for me. Route C also continues the game's tradition of incredible boss and level design. For me, the story was good too. 2B's death scene was one of those rare moments in games where storytelling emerges directly from the gameplay (meaning outside of a text wall or a cut scene). Yoko Taro could have just shown us 2B stagger across the screen, but instead we experience the consequences of her functions shutting down: restricted movement, grainy visuals/audio, etc.

These are just some of the reasons why I enjoyed Route C. I'd be interested to hear your feelings about other aspects of Route C outside of plot.

 

[Deleted member 8861]

I notice all of your comments about Route C are about the story, not about game play or any other aspect of a video game. The battle against the other androids, the swaps between 9S and A2, the epic ascent of the tower--these gameplay moments made Route C salient for me. Route C also continues the game's tradition of incredible boss and level design. For me, the story was good too. 2B's death scene was one of those rare moments in games where storytelling emerges directly from the gameplay (meaning outside of a text wall or a cut scene). Yoko Taro could have just shown us 2B stagger across the screen, but instead we experience the consequences of her functions shutting down: restricted movement, grainy visuals/audio, etc.

These are just some of the reasons why I enjoyed Route C. I'd be interested to hear your feelings about other aspects of Route C outside of plot.

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I already expected 9S and A2's paths to cross at the tower. Also, my framerate tanked the moment I got into the Tower lol. So I didn't enjoy it as much as most other people, but it was very well done. One huge pet peeve I have about that entire segment is that Ko-Shi and Ro-Shi are very generic bosses in terms of design.

I do think that Route C's beginning (up until the title card) is a masterpiece. It's the rest of Route C that didn't stick for me.

The Boxes just felt like gauntlets, which was enjoyable in terms of gameplay but lacking in terms of execution/atmosphere for me.

 

[NewErakid]

Honestly, nothing in this game really "shocked" me. I saw the whole humans are actually did thing coming a mile away. I didn't really care about 2b dying and the 2b really being 2e just felt really inconsequential.

 

[Cipher Peon]

The second I started Route B, the second I wanted the game to end.
While I enjoyed Route C, I didn't enjoy it enough to make me go "Hey maybe it was all worth it"

The end credits sequence was legitimately amazing, but the passion I felt for the game had long been evaporated and I just wanted to move on.

 

[Dreamboum]

My only issue is route B, I don't think the build-up with 9S' side of things was worth it. It could have been cut for the most important moments. Route C was a hard-hitter though, I don't have anything to say about it.

But I think Route B was so long that when I got back for Route C I didn't feel much sadness in the way of 2B, even though I was upset about it.

 

[Brink]

When I played it I thought it was great, largely due to my emotional investment.

In hindsight, some bits are a bit weird. 2B secretly being 2E was kind of dorky and unnecessary. There's also the issue that most of the characters get no real development. 2B and A2 are really flatly written and played. A2 is basically generic Yoko Taro girl, but without the character turn that makes her interesting.

 

[FallenGrace]

I was not enamoured with the game's Route C. The very first level is still the best, followed by the amusement park.

The plot beats felt like the filler of an anime series that's been running for 100+ episodes.

Click to shrink...

Its how I felt. Generic silver haired anime enemies, pretentious non sensical plot and a barren world, it was just downhill from the start for me :(

I got the game based on the demo (first level) which was awesome but the rest of the game is literally nothing like that XD

I will say the animations, music and character designs are superb though.

 

[Jackpot]

2B turning out to be 2E and having killed 9S countless times to reset his memory, leading to him having a dual-sided obsession with her that's half romantic and half homicidal, is filler?

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In a sense. When an anime runs out of things to do with its characters and just goes for a spin on a spin of something more and more outrageous and contrived. 9S turned "evil" because there was nothing left to do with his character (that didn't involve thinking of something particularly ingenious). Like Pascal's village, we've followed it through its ups and downs but now it's the 5th season and we're running out of ideas about what to do with it so let's wipe it out to generate some nihilistic high-stakes plot beats.

 

[Capra]

In a sense. When an anime runs out of things to do with its characters and just goes for a spin on a spin of something more and more outrageous and contrived. 9S turned "evil" because there was nothing left to do with his character (that didn't involve thinking of something particularly ingenious). Like Pascal's village, we've followed it through its ups and downs but now it's the 5th season and we're running out of ideas about what to do with it so let's wipe it out to generate some nihilistic high-stakes plot beats.

Click to shrink...

9S succumbed to the sense of utter despair that's so prevalent throughout the entire game. It's the same thread that runs through the plot of the first 2/3rds and a good chunk of the side stories - the same nihilistic agony that drives Eve insane. It's a culmination of everything the plot was building to since the beginning rather than a last-minute twist from nowhere.

Although I do agree about Pascal's village getting fucked over.

 

[Chairmanchuck (另一个我)]

Route C is best route because of:

 

[Deleted member 8861]

I gotta say though, skipped a major chunk of the village sidequests in Route C but I love how everyone in this fucking game is going through an existential nightmare. Elevated the game to one of my favorite settings in gaming

 

[Deleted member 8861]

Thread necro? Thread necro.
Apparently I didn't mention it here, but I've been planning to make a quick replay of the game ever since I finished it.

Well, in that replay (which is quick in name only, I'm spreading it out over w e e k s to avoid burnout), I've just finished Route C's beginning. Gonna do 9S' two segments and then A2's.

I was either extremely shocked or not shocked at all by 2B's death and I don't know which. But I felt nothing, from the logic virus walk (fell into the pit too, hah) to her last moments. I thought we'd be getting something along the lines of A2-with-2B's-memories kind of deal so I guess I was either too shocked to feel anything or was expecting this anyway because screw you it's a Yoko Taro game.

Click to shrink...

I'm still at this point. I even kind of spaced out during her death. I don't know why Route C's beginning doesn't fucking destroy me, because on a relatively objective level I feel it's perfectly executed, but it just didn't get to me. (Perhaps also because I've been obsessed with the game for the last two months/because I omitted most sidequests and so was gravely underleveled, two squads got wiped out).

The surprise of the credits, the cinematography, the tunes, the graphics... They're all perfect but I'm still completely numb.

That said, I watched the final video of Clemps' Automata analysis that got uploaded today. It made me appreciate the Tower sequence much more, so I'm now looking forward to the rest of the route. Perhaps I was lukewarm on the beginning because it's been etched in my mind ever since.

Did this happen to anyone else? Think some scene or event is perfectly done but it just doesn't get to you?

 

[Deleted member 19066]

2B turning out to be 2E and having killed 9S countless times to reset his memory, leading to him having a dual-sided obsession with her that's half romantic and half homicidal, is filler?

I don't really get the complaint that 9S' arc is predictable. The revenge aspect is pretty obvious from the moment he sees A2 kill 2B but I feel like nothing from the first half can prepare you for the the sadistic glee with which Taro explores his descent into madness.

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Yeah 9S slowly going mad from the loss/stress was, like, peak Taro. Especially when he's confronted with two dozen lifeless 2B units, and you remember Jackass talking about how Yorha units get an almost sexual pleasure from killing.