Let's talk about the Reversal Edge mechanic in Soulcalibur VI

[Birdo]

For those not familiar, watch the video and take a look at the chart below.

I absolutely hate it. Not only does it slow down the pace of the game to look "cool", you're forced into a luck based game of rock–paper–scissors. I should also mention that you can activate it with the press of a single button, R1.

How do you feel about it?

 

[Raysoul]

It's actually a slower version of the options after a guard crush, that's my take. Also, the attacker is at much at risk in this play. I imagine at higher level, it won't be used at much because of the high risk involved.

I'm not against the mechanic. I always adjust to any fighting game mechanic that is thrown at me.

 

[Magneto]

It sucks. I feel like they're trying to have something hype-inducing like the slowmo from Tekken, except that this time, it's a gameplay mechanic and it's really, really, really bad. Why the fuck do i have to rock/paper/scissors when i open up / parry something ?

 

[skillzilla81]

It sucks. I feel like they're trying to have something hype-inducing like the slowmo from Tekken, except that this time, it's a gameplay mechanic and it's really, really, really bad. Why the fuck do i have to rock/paper/scissors when i open up / parry something ?

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Don't use it, then. It's going to be pretty useless at anything other than low level. You can just use a GI instead, or movement, or block and punish, etc.

I think it'll do a good job of introducing hype moments for people that don't know what they're doing and it'll be rarely seen at anywhere else since you risk a lot when you use it. If you get hit by a guard crush attack while doing a RE, you get lethal hit which is huge damage and a combo for the person who beat it.

 

[Deleted member 1190]

It's fine in action. Watch some gameplay vids, or Max's stream the from the other day.

You're not really forced into anything considering how you can choose to dodge or guard during it, plus the activation of it is an actual hit that has to land, and that can be blocked/dodged/stuffed.

People saying it wont be used at high level forget that landing it gives you a full bar of meter, which in turn can be used to activate soul charge, which is very important. It isn't something that will be spammed at high level like it will be at the lower levels, but it will be used.

 

[KillLaCam]

It's waaaaaay too slow. I'm fine with it being in but theyre gonna need to speed it up.

 

[Birdo]

It sucks. I feel like they're trying to have something hype-inducing like the slowmo from Tekken, except that this time, it's a gameplay mechanic and it's really, really, really bad. Why the fuck do i have to rock/paper/scissors when i open up / parry something ?

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You know, I also have a large gripe with Tekken 7. While the slow-mo is annoying and I would remove it given the chance, there's something that bothers me much more. Rage Arts. Not the fact that they're in the game but the fact that it takes only 1 button to activate it. It's way too easy to counter someone with it since there are no inputs required.

It's fine in action. Watch some gameplay vids, or Max's stream the from the other day.

You're not really forced into anything considering how you can choose to dodge or guard during it, plus the activation of it is an actual hit that has to land, and that can be blocked/dodged/stuffed.

People saying it wont be used at high level forget that landing it gives you a full bar of meter, which in turn can be used to activate soul charge, which is very important. It isn't something that will be spammed at high level like it will be at the lower levels, but it will be used.

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If you look at the graph I posted, you can still lose the exchange by guarding.

 

[Magneto]

Don't use it, then.

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Doesn't change the fact that it sucks.

I think it'll do a good job of introducing hype moments for people that don't know what they're doing

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If only Bandai Namco already created something like that in a game called Tekken 7, that even works with people that know what they're doing.

You know, I also have a large gripe with Tekken 7. While the slow-mo is annoying and I would remove it given the chance, there's something that bothers me much more. Rage Arts. Not the fact that they're in the game but the fact that it takes only 1 button to activate it. It's way too easy to counter someone with it since there are no inputs required.

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Yup, i don't really like Rage Arts too, even if i still enjoy Tekken 7. I could live with the rage drives only (and without shortcut if possible :p)

 

[skillzilla81]

Doesn't change the fact that it sucks.

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I think it'll do a good job of introducing hype moments for people that don't know what they're doing [/QUOTE]

If only Bandai Namco already created something like that in a game called Tekken 7, that even works with people that know what they're doing.[/QUOTE]

Those moments only happen at the end of the round. Vids I've been watching from people button mashing are them having a great time when RE happens mid-match.

There is tons in the game for people who know what they're doing, GIs, Supers, Soul Charge, character traits, lethal hits, new just frames, etc.

 

[Deleted member 1190]

If you look at the graph I posted, you can still lose the exchange by guarding.

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Youre graph is wrong. Vertical attacks do not beat guard. G beats A,B, K, and GI, just like it does normally in a match. Properties don't change during RE.

Here's an actual correct summary.

https://8wayrun.com/threads/reversal-edge-mechanic-master-post-by-trace_afj.19744/

 

[Birdo]

Youre graph is wrong. Vertical attacks do not beat guard. G beats A,B, K, and GI.

Here's an actual correct summary.

https://8wayrun.com/threads/reversal-edge-mechanic-master-post-by-trace_afj.19744/

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So is G (or anything for that matter) always completely safe?

 

[Adam Sadler]

I personally love how it looked a long time ago, quick and didn't ruin the pace of the game. This is definitely a little too flashy for me so i agree OP

 

[Nimby]

I always feel like the people complain about FG mechanics the most never play fighting games competitively. Max and crew got over 2 hours of play with the game and they seemed to like the system a lot.

 

[Birdo]

I always feel like the people complain about FG mechanics the most never play fighting games competitively. Max and crew got over 2 hours of play with the game and they seemed to like the system a lot.

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If this is directed at me, you're wrong.

 

[DoubleTake]

It's way too easy to counter someone with it since there are no inputs required.

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Baiting Rage Arts are the easiest thing in the game. Of course its easy to counter someone when they dont know how they work. They're only a problem for lower level players.

The moment you understand which RA are High/Low, which are super fast, and that they only get armor 8 frames into the animation, they are incredibly easy to beat out. Theyre a high risk, high reward mechanic. The ease of the input is reflected in how punishable most of them are.

 

[Alienous]

I saw it in gameplay and, without knowing the mechanics of it, my first thought was 'What is the Ultimate Tenkaichi stuff doing in this game?'. The way it took control of the camera reminded me of it, and it seems those moments are similar in terms of gameplay.

It seemed like the side-steps to sword lunges lent themselves well enough to visual hype anyway without drastically slowing gameplay.

 

[Nimby]

If this is directed at me, you're wrong.

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Just in general. Remember all that doom and gloom over Dragon Balls? Yeah, maybe you should wait closer to release to start damning the game.

 

[Birdo]

Baiting Rage Arts are the easiest thing in the game. Of course its easy to counter someone when they dont know how they work. They're only a problem for lower level players.

The moment you understand which RA are High/Low, which are super fast, and that they only get armor 8 frames into the animation, they are incredibly easy to beat out. Theyre a high risk, high reward mechanic. The ease of the input is reflected in how punishable most of them are.

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I'm not talking about baiting rage arts. I'm talking about the fact that my (and likely most FGC players) reflexes are fast enough to activate a Rage Art the moment we see an opponent throw an attack. I swear I have a 90%+ success rate of landing a Rage Art against good players just because it's instantaneous and as super armor.

 

[Ferrio]

I'm not talking about baiting rage arts. I'm talking about the fact that my (and likely most FGC players) reflexes are fast enough to activate a Rage Art the moment we see an opponent throw an attack. I swear I have a 90%+ success rate of landing a Rage Art against good players just because it's instantaneous and as super armor.

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Ya it sucks how T7 tournies all just boil down to punishing attacks with Rage Arts.

Spoiler

This doesn't happen.

 

[Birdo]

Ya it sucks how T7 tournies all just boil down to punishing attacks with Rage Arts.

Spoiler

This doesn't happen.

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I said against good players, not tourney level players. What's the reason for it being so easy to activate?

 

[Ferrio]

I said against good players, not tourney level players. What's the reason for it being so easy to activate?

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Because all Tekken moves outside of just frame stuff like electrics are easy. How do you expect to do it? Also I'm dubious of the "good" here. If your opponent is sitting on a RA why are you going to use a move that they can react to? You deserve to be punished.

 

[Deleted member 1190]

So is G (or anything for that matter) always completely safe?

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Yes, for the first round anyway. Things get a bit more complex after that, but you always have a lot of options. Again, the mechanic seems completely fine once you start seeing it in action and how it all flows.

I said against good players, not tourney level players. What's the reason for it being so easy to activate?

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Being a one button input doesn't really matter much. QCF, or even double QCF, aren't exactly hard to do on reactions, and the difference for anyone at a "good" level of play is negligible.

 

[KillLaCam]

I said against good players, not tourney level players. What's the reason for it being so easy to activate?

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I barely ever see Rage Arts outside of combos after the green ranks .

 

[DoubleTake]

I'm not talking about baiting rage arts. I'm talking about the fact that my (and likely most FGC players) reflexes are fast enough to activate a Rage Art the moment we see an opponent throw an attack. I swear I have a 90%+ success rate of landing a Rage Art against good players just because it's instantaneous and as super armor.

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Not to sound like a dick, but theyre probably not that great of players then, especially if you have a 90% success rate at it. A good player would see that you have rage, and consider all the options before engaging to bait it out. Good players dont even use Rage Arts often at the end of rounds because of how easily counterable/baitable the tactic is. Again, the ease of input is balanced by the fact that almost all of them are extremely punishable. IMO its the bad players that get hit by stray RAs. I have also hit plenty a RA but that's because people think whiffing long recovery moves in front of Jin/Steve is a smart thing to do while they're low on health.

Say I'm fighting a Steve. I must remember 2 things. His RA is 13 frames(Armor after 8 frames of startup) meaning it can punish a lot of regular moves on block, and its a high. So my options are to use moves that are plus enough of block to stuff out his attempts at interrupting with a RA or simply ducking after he starts the move. Or I can just block it and return to neutral since his RA is one of the few unpunishable ones. RAs arent a big deal at all and just help to add an extra mind game at the end of rounds and something for casuals to throw out when in trouble.

 

[SquirrelSoup]

I think RE is largely newbie suicide bait. It'll seem very strong to new folks because it will basically let them get out of quite a lot of stuff that other newbies do... but then at mid levels they'll throw it out in neutral and they'll get sidestepped and launched every time.

I expect at a reasonable level of competency it'll mostly be used to interrupt certain specific strings with gaps large enough for RE but not large enough to step, and where blocking or ducking the extension also gives a poor reward.

That said, it seems like a superfluous mechanic to me since the function it has is basically covered by GI already. Why have two separate parry mechanics? Seems like adding complexity without adding much depth. And i would have vastly preferred if their 'hype generator' was just a straight up cloned Tekken 7 slowdown, because that is glorious.

 

[NeroPaige]

yea, gonna side-step this game until I know for sure just how this mechanic ruins the flow. Looks like something for the audience, hype and blow-ups.