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P40L0

P40L0

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Jun 12, 2018
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It's while playing Forza (haven't tested with other games). I do have 4:2:2 checked... New cable means redecorating. That's truly painful since I tested the cables with my OG Beta x1x before burying them. Sad times.
If everything is setup as the config Profiles in the OP and the blackouts still happen then, yes, it should be a bandwidth cap issue and unfortunately is highly possible it's a cable fault...

Personally as soon as I replaced the stock one with the HDMI 2.1 Belkin, and using the same settings, the issue just disappeared.

Anyway, when you experience those blackouts (often anticipated by white dots and flickering), just try to turn off and on the TV again to temporary fix it.
 

Sky87

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,863
It's while playing Forza (haven't tested with other games). I do have 4:2:2 checked... New cable means redecorating. That's truly painful since I tested the cables with my OG Beta x1x before burying them. Sad times.
I'm having the same issues with my C7 after getting a new Huawei Q22 set-top-box. Some times there are drop outs/flickers/grey ''snow'' effects once per day, other times it can happen after several days. What solves it is unticking/ticking ULTRA HDMI Deep Color to make it handshake again. After that it stays stable the rest of the day.

Pretty sure it's just the cable in my case, as it's just a regular High Speed cable with Ethernet. I've had it happen once on my XB1X during RDR2, so not really often enough to cause worry.

Worst case scenario would be a bad HDMI port on the TV itself.
 
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P40L0

P40L0

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Jun 12, 2018
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Do I really need to manually install a new DV profile?

Like why isn't LG taking care of that OTA?
They did actually update DV to latest version with latest 5.80.xx firmware, but without the USB adjustments DV Cinema was still overly dark by default, so it's still recommended to calibrate it.
 

Deleted member 17092

User requested account closure
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They did actually update DV to latest version with latest 5.80.xx firmware, but without the USB adjustments DV Cinema was still overly dark by default, so it's still recommended to calibrate it.

Ok, so to be clear I want to do the WB calibration but I do not need to manually install with USB a new DV profile?
 

Deleted member 50735

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Dec 10, 2018
519
Are you sure that for option 6 the xbox is only outputting 420 in SDR, with 422 checked? Its just that would differ from normal gpu driver behaviour in windows 10 and xbox does use a version of windows 10? Thats a bit crap if true. I know Vincent from HDTVtest used a projector test to show what the xbox actually outputted. I'll try and find his vid again to see if he covers the 10bit SDR xbox option (i think he did)
 
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P40L0

P40L0

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Jun 12, 2018
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Are you sure that for option 6 the xbox is only outputting 420 in SDR, with 422 checked? Its just that would differ from normal gpu driver behaviour in windows 10 and xbox does use a version of windows 10? Thats a bit crap if true. I know Vincent from HDTVtest used a projector test to show what the xbox actually outputted. I'll try and find his vid again to see if he covers the 10bit SDR xbox option (i think he did)
He did, and the projector had the same results of the 8-bit selection but, trust me, results are different, at least in SDR.

Banding is less, colors are a bit more saturated/vibrant and blacks are darker in all SDR game I tested vs 8-bit. The user Hitcher above also noted crushed blacks in Xbox 360 backward compatible games compared to 8-bit. Plus I also remember some DOTDASHDOT screenshot of 420 at 10-bit when the option is selected, but now I need to find them again.

To me and in conclusion, as I said, 10-bit option could be tried if color banding is very noticeable in SDR as a workaround fix, otherwise 8-bit selection is still the most accurate.

EDIT: This is the post I was referring to (but note that he was using PC Mode):

Ok firstly 4:2:2 chroma doesn't even work in SDR on an Xbox One, it will ALWAYS output RGB, regardless of whether the 4:2:2 box is ticked or not, it only has any meaning in HDR games:


Leaving it like this will mean you get RGB encoding, with an auto switch to 10bit 4:2:0 encoding for HDR.
20181020_0832087jcsl.jpg


If you choose 10 or 12bit depth for SDR, you will only have 4:2:0 chroma no matter what.
20181020_083258xhfzi.jpg

20181020_083346wfe7d.jpg

20181020_083827dmcwn.jpg



This is the Xbox auto switching to HDR with 8bit enabled.
20181020_084712gwemn.jpg


4:2:2 chroma only enabled in HDR, but I personally don't recommend it, as you got way more colour banding in gradients, these games are set up for 4:2:0.
20181020_0844587hdgz.jpg


The purer white was only meant to have an impact in HDR anyway with 12bit, but if you go down that route you'll literally have to change your settings every time you switch from HDR to an SDR game, and you are very unlikely to see any difference from 10-12 honestly.
 
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P40L0

P40L0

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Jun 12, 2018
7,623
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DOTDASHDOT , as per the post above, could you kindly just confirm us that you were using PC Mode when you tested the X1X Color Depth auto-switch when 8-bit option is selected?

444 RGB L should not be possible outside PC Mode using a regular HDMI Input Icon, se we're not fully sure that 8-bit is still the proper choice there compared to just selecting 10-bit 420.

Thanks :)
 

Marble

Banned
Nov 27, 2017
3,819
After finishing RDR2 I am now playing AC Odyssey. Man that game has some georgeous HDR implementation. It's the best I encountered thus far. I can't believe Rockstar took 7 years to make a game that doesn't come even close to AC's HDR implementation. I almost have to close my eyes due to the excessive sunlight when walking out of a cave.
 

Deleted member 50735

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He did, and the projector had the same results of the 8-bit selection but, trust me, results are different, at least in SDR.

Banding is less, colors are a bit more saturated/vibrant and blacks are darker in all SDR game I tested vs 8-bit. The user Hitcher above also noted crushed blacks in Xbox 360 backward compatible games compared to 8-bit. Plus I also remember some DOTDASHDOT screenshot of 420 at 10-bit when the option is selected, but now I need to find them again.

To me and in conclusion, as I said, 10-bit option could be tried if color banding is very noticeable in SDR as a workaround fix, otherwise 8-bit selection is still the most accurate.

EDIT: This is the post I was referring to (but note that he was using PC Mode):

Great, that gives some clarity as bizarre as the findings are. In which case personally I'd stay with 8bit and RGB. Do you know why everyone recommends against changing the colour space from standard to allow full RGB?
 

Deleted member 50735

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A bit off topic, but does anyone get vertical banding at all (nothing to do with settings) in all content i.e not just xbox content? I have always noticed a central thin vertical line from banding at times in certain panning scenes. This can be a game or a hdr film or anything really and not source dependent. Recently its been annoying me.
 
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P40L0

P40L0

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Jun 12, 2018
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Great, that gives some clarity as bizarre as the findings are. In which case personally I'd stay with 8bit and RGB. Do you know why everyone recommends against changing the colour space from standard to allow full RGB?
Yeah, 8-bit remains the recommended value.

Full RGB (and Black Level High) is never recommended with these TVs as HDR will just not work at all with both console and TV set that way (you will have a Grey "sepia-like" screen when HDR content launch).
There is simply not enough bandwidth for HDMI 2.0 to output the signal.

A bit off topic, but does anyone get vertical banding at all (nothing to do with settings) in all content i.e not just xbox content? I have always noticed a central thin vertical line from banding at times in certain panning scenes. This can be a game or a hdr film or anything really and not source dependent. Recently its been annoying me.
Unfortunately that is the "jail bar" panel defect most these TVs have on 5% Grey backgrounds.

You won't notice them 99% of the time, but in some very dark Grey scenes you will.

You can't do anything about it to fix it, just adapting your eyes to them...
 

Deleted member 50735

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Thanks. My thoughts for full RGB black level was just for SDR. But if it impacts HDR, then that's a shame. The Xbox has some weird config. With a PC you can set it to be full RGB in SDR and then ycbcr for HDR. So you get the best of both worlds.

Good to know I'm not alone with the jail bars. I will need to train myself to ignore it again. 😎
 
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P40L0

P40L0

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Thanks. My thoughts for full RGB black level was just for SDR. But if it impacts HDR, then that's a shame. The Xbox has some weird config. With a PC you can set it to be full RGB in SDR and then ycbcr for HDR. So you get the best of both worlds.

Good to know I'm not alone with the jail bars. I will need to train myself to ignore it again. 😎
Yeah, the reality is that Full RGB and 4:4:4 are signals that belong to real PC/Monitor usage only, as all consumer console/receiver/set-top-box/player and all TV/Movie/Console Game contents are created with Standard Color Space in mind.
Consider also that even today the PC / Windows 10 HDR experience have much more technical bugs/issues compared to standard devices for these reasons.

About the "jail bars", I personally only have a prominent one to left of the screen that is only slightly visible in some dark grey X1X menu background and limited dusk/dawn scenes in movies, otherwise can't be perceived.
For this reason I consider myself lucky, as some users had up to 4 or 5 jailbars mostly visible all the time, and they ended up exchanging their TVs through LG Support.
 
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Marble

Banned
Nov 27, 2017
3,819
A bit off topic, but does anyone get vertical banding at all (nothing to do with settings) in all content i.e not just xbox content? I have always noticed a central thin vertical line from banding at times in certain panning scenes. This can be a game or a hdr film or anything really and not source dependent. Recently its been annoying me.

I don't know if it is the same (probably not, since mine are not vertical), but in games like Spider-Man and AC Odyssey, when I look into the sun and move the camera up and down, I notice these horizontal black lines. You have to look very carefully though (it probably sounds worse than it is) or you will not see them. Not sure if I need to be worried or not.
 
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P40L0

P40L0

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I don't know if it is the same (probably not, since mine are not vertical), but in games like Spider-Man and AC Odyssey, when I look into the sun and move the camera up and down, I notice these horizontal black lines. You have to look very carefully though (it probably sounds worse than it is) or you will not see them. Not sure if I need to be worried or not.
You shouldn't worry as those are not "jail bars" or other panel defects.
It's just a Chroma/Bit-Depth artifact with HDR that you could probably fix with proper console/TV settings, or it could just be a game based issue only.
 

Eggiem

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,777
"CALIBRATED IN-GAME HDR SETTINGS EXAMPLES:
  • AC Origins: 4.000 nits HDR Luminance, 300 Paper White, Brightness 1 tick left compared to default;"
This looks completely off in HDR PC game mode. Way too much contrast and blown out whites. Is there someone who plays ACO on PC and can share his settings?

Or is there something wrong with my PC settings?
 

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,684
"CALIBRATED IN-GAME HDR SETTINGS EXAMPLES:
  • AC Origins: 4.000 nits HDR Luminance, 300 Paper White, Brightness 1 tick left compared to default;"
This looks completely off in HDR PC game mode. Way too much contrast and blown out whites. Is there someone who plays ACO on PC and can share his settings?

If you are getting blown out whites perhaps take a look at a game that has a better in game scale for setting peak brightness, do you achieve 4000nits before things start to vanish? is a lower RGB mapping value applied in HDR PC game mode.

300nits for a paper white is also very high, the higher from 100you take this the higher the black levels will become. Whilst it depends a little bit on each game, I'm personally apprehensive of taking it higher than 200 in any game I've tried.
 

Eggiem

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,777
If you are getting blown out whites perhaps take a look at a game that has a better in game scale for setting peak brightness, do you achieve 4000nits before things start to vanish? is a lower RGB mapping value applied in HDR PC game mode.

300nits for a paper white is also very high, the higher from 100you take this the higher the black levels will become. Whilst it depends a little bit on each game, I'm personally apprehensive of taking it higher than 200 in any game I've tried.
Will try different Win10 settings later. Switching between my monitor and the TV is annoying.
 

Hitcher

Member
Dec 23, 2018
618
"CALIBRATED IN-GAME HDR SETTINGS EXAMPLES:
  • AC Origins: 4.000 nits HDR Luminance, 300 Paper White, Brightness 1 tick left compared to default;"
This looks completely off in HDR PC game mode. Way too much contrast and blown out whites. Is there someone who plays ACO on PC and can share his settings?

Or is there something wrong with my PC settings?
I think you're looking in the wrong place; this is for LG 2017 OLEDs (not a PC monitor) and Xbox One X (not a PC).
 
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P40L0

P40L0

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Jun 12, 2018
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"CALIBRATED IN-GAME HDR SETTINGS EXAMPLES:
  • AC Origins: 4.000 nits HDR Luminance, 300 Paper White, Brightness 1 tick left compared to default;"
This looks completely off in HDR PC game mode. Way too much contrast and blown out whites. Is there someone who plays ACO on PC and can share his settings?

Or is there something wrong with my PC settings?
4.000 nits in-game setting is recommended only for regular HDR Game Mode.

If you're using PC Input + HDR Standard set 2.000 nits max in-game.
Then I would never touch the default Paper White value in games, but as EvilBoris suggested you can also try to set it around 200 if don't like the defaults
 

Deleted member 50735

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When I had a PC I used the console icon, game HDR mode for the TV. AC Origins HDR though is weird on PC as I had to lower the brightness in game some and then use the HDR sliders, otherwise it never looked right. Wish I could remember the settings, but unfortunately i sold my 1080Ti for a profit when prices were high (mining boom) and moved to x1x so cant go back in to see. But yeah start with lowering the normal in game brightness first.

EDIT: if memory serves me right for the HDR sliders I had one setting at 1000 and the other at 170 iirc The settings change the image differently to the ones in the x1x. That was around 8 months ago in driver terms.
 

Me_Marcadet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
411
I have a Linker and I have no clue how the sliders works with custom Metadata.
I tried several settings in forza like going from 500 nits to 10000 nits and I can't see any change.
 
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P40L0

P40L0

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When I had a PC I used the console icon, game HDR mode for the TV. AC Origins HDR though is weird on PC as I had to lower the brightness in game some and then use the HDR sliders, otherwise it never looked right. Wish I could remember the settings, but unfortunately i sold my 1080Ti for a profit when prices were high (mining boom) and moved to x1x so cant go back in to see. But yeah start with lowering the normal in game brightness first.

EDIT: if memory serves me right for the HDR sliders I had one setting at 1000 and the other at 170 iirc The settings change the image differently to the ones in the x1x. That was around 8 months ago in driver terms.
8 months ago all HDR Modes of PC Input were totally bugged, with corrupt color gamuts and banding everywhere.

LG Fixed it like 2 months ago, but all HDR Modes of PC Input except HDR Game have higher input lag compared to the above, something like 40ms vs 21ms, while alle PC SDR Modes have 21ms, including SDR Technicolor.
But 4:2:2 is still bugged in PC Mode introducing massive banding, therefore overall PC Mode is not yet recommended.

Go for regular HDMI Icon + Suggested settings in the OP.
 

brain_stew

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,731
From what I gathered, this is what happens on X1X and a B7:

1) Selecting 8-bit, 422 Unchecked + PC Mode: 444 RGB Limited at 8-bit is used for SDR, and it's the best quality. But HDR will always be 420 at 10-bit, and could be better;

2) Selecting 8-bit, 422 Checked + PC Mode: 420 at 8-bit is used for SDR so less than optimal, and 422 at 10 bit is used for HDR but with horrific color banding added. The worst option of all

3) Selecting 8-bit, 422 Unchecked + Regular HDMI Icon: 444 RGB Limited will not work here and 420 at 8-bit is used instead so less than optimal, 420 at 10 bit is also used in HDR and could be better

4) Selecting 8-bit, 422 Checked + Regular HDMI Icon: 420 at 8-bit is used for SDR, but 422 at 10-bit is always used in HDR for the best quality

5) Selecting 10-Bit, 422 Unchecked + Regular HDMI Icon: 420 at 10-bit is used for SDR somewhat upscaling the original color depth, HDR will be 420 at 10-bit so could be better

6) Selecting 10-bit, 422 Checked + Regular HDMI Icon: 420 at 10-bit is used for SDR somewhat upscaling the original color depth, HDR will be 422 at 10-bit so the best quality

7) Selecting 12 bit will make both SDR and HDR upscale to 12-bit, then pass the signal to the TV that will need to downscale it again to 10-bit, and the results are way too estimated resulting to oversaturated colors and crushed blacks


Options 4 and 6 are the best, the 4 for overall accuracy and 6 for better color banding but slightly less accuracy in SDR.

Try both yourself and let me know what you prefer ;)

Does all of this apply to the B8 as well? I was initially using PC mode on my B8 but the banding in Forza Horizon was horrific as you mention it is on the B7. Might try out the 10 bit colour option.
 

Me_Marcadet

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Oct 25, 2017
411
Massive banding is an overstatement, if not for this thread and multiple thorough tests of my own, I would never have noticed.
 

Deleted member 50735

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Yeah, the reality is that Full RGB and 4:4:4 are signals that belong to real PC/Monitor usage only, as all consumer console/receiver/set-top-box/player and all TV/Movie/Console Game contents are created with Standard Color Space in mind.
Consider also that even today the PC / Windows 10 HDR experience have much more technical bugs/issues compared to standard devices for these reasons.

About the "jail bars", I personally only have a prominent one to left of the screen that is only slightly visible in some dark grey X1X menu background and limited dusk/dawn scenes in movies, otherwise can't be perceived.
For this reason I consider myself lucky, as some users had up to 4 or 5 jailbars mostly visible all the time, and they ended up exchanging their TVs through LG Support.
8 months ago all HDR Modes of PC Input were totally bugged, with corrupt color gamuts and banding everywhere.

LG Fixed it like 2 months ago, but all HDR Modes of PC Input except HDR Game have higher input lag compared to the above, something like 40ms vs 21ms, while alle PC SDR Modes have 21ms, including SDR Technicolor.
But 4:2:2 is still bugged in PC Mode introducing massive banding, therefore overall PC Mode is not yet recommended.

Go for regular HDMI Icon + Suggested settings in the OP.

I know. I said I used the non PC mode i.e I set it as though a console. And I still would today....

EDIT: also please re-read. On PC the HDR in AC Origins DOES NOT behave like the console!
 

Me_Marcadet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
411
Using PC HDR (any mode) coupled with 422 still results in massive banding today.
Unchecking 422 is much better and acceptable, but still worse compared to 422 in non-PC icon.

There's more banding, we agree. But massive is way too strong of a word. I find the banding à slightly more distracting, it's not night and day.
What I mean is that it still can be a valid choice for people who won't notice it.

I encourage people to try both and judge for themselves.
 
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P40L0

P40L0

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I know. I said I used the non PC mode i.e I set it as though a console. And I still would today....

EDIT: also please re-read. On PC the HDR in AC Origins DOES NOT behave like the console!
Yeah, sorry, I was recommending to not use PC Input in general for everyone, not answering to you specifically. My bad ^^

Personally I am also not a fan of HDR and Windows 10. Too much little and big issues plaguing the HDR experience compared to console, so I don't know exactly how games behave there compared to X1X...
 

DOTDASHDOT

Helios Abandoned. Atropos Conquered.
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Oct 26, 2017
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Does all of this apply to the B8 as well? I was initially using PC mode on my B8 but the banding in Forza Horizon was horrific as you mention it is on the B7. Might try out the 10 bit colour option.

Where are you getting 420 for SDR, when 422 8bit is checked from? It's full RGB.
 

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Yeah, sorry, I was recommending to not use PC Input in general for everyone, not answering to you specifically. My bad ^^

Personally I am also not a fan of HDR and Windows 10. Too much little and big issues plaguing the HDR experience compared to console, so I don't know exactly how games behave there compared to X1X...

Thanks. I totally agree. Its one of several major reasons that put the final nails in the PC coffin for me. I gave up 15 years of PC gaming and moved to the x1x and whilst sometimes I miss the locked 60fps. I dont miss all the faffing (HDR just being one the mess arounds). Its so much less hassle now.
 
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P40L0

P40L0

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Small change to DV profiles:

  • webOS/X1X Dolby Vision correct OLED Light value is now 55 (after 5.80.15 Firmware)

As LG DV version got a Luminance bump after 5.80.10 and 5.80.15 firmware, the OLED Light value from 70 to 55 now provides the most accurate Luminance while preserving dark details.
 
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P40L0

P40L0

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Tested the 360 backward compatible games and, yep, 8-bit is the accurate selection also there otherwise black level will be crushed in their in-game video calibration tools.
 

Deleted member 50735

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I'm still intrigued with PC/RGB colour space setting in x1x, as it allows the RGB full black level to be used instead of the standard, forced limited. I may have a play around at some point.
 
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P40L0

P40L0

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I'm still intrigued with PC/RGB colour space setting in x1x, as it allows the RGB full black level to be used instead of the standard, forced limited. I may have a play around at some point.
For SDR the Full RGB + 8-bit (and selecting High Black Level on the TV) will work properly and will be better.

The problem is when HDR triggers: it won't revert the Full RGB option to Standard automatically, and it won't just work at all as there won't be enough bandwidth for HDMI 2.0
 
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inspectah

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,183
Germany
This is a bit off-topic, but since there are a lot oft people with the same model ITT:
ARC stopped working for me since one of the last updates.
I use it for WebOS Apps.
- EU C7 on FW 05.80.15
- Denon X1300W on latest FW
- nothing changed with cabling
- nothing changed with ARC settings on TV or AVR

Someone know what might be the problem?
 

RandomDazed

Member
Oct 27, 2017
691
This is a bit off-topic, but since there are a lot oft people with the same model ITT:
ARC stopped working for me since one of the last updates.
I use it for WebOS Apps.
- EU C7 on FW 05.80.15
- Denon X1300W on latest FW
- nothing changed with cabling
- nothing changed with ARC settings on TV or AVR

Someone know what might be the problem?

Did you happen to change the HDMI port you have your receiver plugged in to the TV? It only supports ARC on one of those HDMI ports IIRC.