Anyone try playing DMCV demo with HDR? If I go To game mode, the settings from the OP mute all the colors, and I cant seem to get It to look as good as Standard.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Hey P4OLO, wanted to thank you for this thread. Kept reading through it late last year (I had a B7).
I actually switched to a C8 on December after realizing that I did CARE too much for dynamic tone mapping and that was never happening on the B7s.
I have to say. Its fantastic. Everything is bright but within the expected ranges (nothing gets crushed).
Standard is not an accurate reference, as it will clip most highlights and will make most colors (wrongly) glow like a neon.
Did you try X1X/TV HDR v5.3.2 settings?
Yeah, I know.
Dynamic Tone Mapping is definitely a better solution compared to Dynamic Contrast, but personally I will wait for a B10/C10 at least before upgrading again my TV. My B7 is still superb as it is currently... ;)
I was using the setting in OP and tried playing KH3 with the SDR settings but it's like W50 which puts a yellow tint over everything. Idk, maybe that's what supposed to look good but It just looks weird to me
The "Yellow tint" you see it's an eye reaction from a "colder" temperature (another preset/device) to a warmer, but after less than 10 minutes eyes will adapt to it and the tint will be gone. You will then experience reference color accuracy like content creators intended (following the D65 temperature standards).
It would be best to have all your displays/devices correctly calibrated with a Warm/D65 temperature in order to avoid seeing "tints" at all when switching devices.
Is the W50 colour temp right for gaming on 2018 OLEDs? And if so, why is the pre set HDR gaming mode set to C30. Seems a big difference.
Should be the same for 2018 models, yes.
Contrary to SDR/HDR Technicolor preset, SDR/HDR Game presets have just inaccurate defaults (they push colors' "pop" over preserving reference material accuracy)
DV Home Cinema tends to clip highlights and does weird things with colors (oversaturation + glowing).
It also has some weird flicker with some "fade to black" transitions where a big gray box appears in a white glowing background instead (for example it happened a lot to me with Stranger Things Season 2 on Netflix).
Also consider that after 5.80+ firmware the webOS Netflix app has been dimmed in DV, differently than X1X Netflix app where DV Cinema is bright as before, and with some contents can even be blinding in some specular highlights!
Was playing it today and it seems good using the settings provided here. Dark but to the point I would expect in the unlit underground areas.
Also consider that, as noted by Digital Foundry, the game may have added black crush on OG Xbox One and X1X due to a Dashboard bug that needs to be fixed by MS.
I still don't have the game to test it tho, but in that case slightly raising in-game gamma should fix it.
EDIT: Further testing by EvilBotis shows it's just a matter of SDR video capturing issue on Xbox. Directly gaming in HDR won't results in any black crush, and the game is fine. Leave in-game gamma alone... ;)
Last edited:
No, unfortunately when using PC Input you will only get 4:2:0 HDR10 and you won't be able to turn on Dynamic Contrast when using HDR Game.
Plus, if you try to use HDR Standard there, you will still have higher input lag compared to HDR Game.
Overall, just avoid using PC Input (as it's not worth it just for 4:4:4 SDR) and opt using regular "Game Console" icon + calibrated SDR and HDR Game mode (the latter with High Dynamic Contrast) to have the best balance between accuracy, low input lag and luminance.
Just follow the X1X SDR and HDR v5.3.2 settings in the OP both for Console and TV for best results.
Last edited:
Ah okay, I thought dynamic metadata for HDR was when setting dynamic contrast to low not high? At least that's what Rtings has in their review, though I recall hearing that didn't work at all in game mode.
It doesn't work at all in game mode in fact (2017 models).
Therefore Dynamic Contrast to Low outside Game Mode will just trigger Active HDR (Dynamic Tonemapping), while in HDR Game Mode will just raise the luminance/gamma curve and it's recommended to be set to High to counter the games' static metadata and overall dimness of the profile.
DC should be off for SDR instead, as it works differently and is not needed there.
80 brightness for SDR seems a bit high. Would I get the same color accuracy if I did backlight lower?
Yes.
Consider that 80 OLED Light in SDR Game Mode is equivalent to around 60-70 of regular SDR Technicolor.
After playing A LOT of new, additional HDR contents (Games, 4K HDR/Blu-Rays, 4K/HDR Streaming) using HDR Game v5.3.2, I decided it's now time to do a partial step back from High Dynamic Contrast suggestion...
If High DC performed GREAT in many occasion with HDR Game (brighting up noticeable dimmer sequences, especially in particular movies and games' static menus and HUD), it showed too much color artifacts, black crush and/or highlights clipping to be considered universally accurate now.
Therefore, I updated again the HDR Game profile to v5.5:
Cheers :)
-P
If High DC performed GREAT in many occasion with HDR Game (brighting up noticeable dimmer sequences, especially in particular movies and games' static menus and HUD), it showed too much color artifacts, black crush and/or highlights clipping to be considered universally accurate now.
Therefore, I updated again the HDR Game profile to v5.5:
- Going back to Dynamic Contrast: MEDIUM
- Going back to Brightness 50 (no need to raise it outside High DC)
- Going back to Color Gamut: AUTO
- Raising Color value to 60 (to offset a slight color desaturation of Medium DC)
Cheers :)
-P
Now it's quite similar to what I've been using lately. Games with proper HDR calibration ingame like AC Odyssey will look close to identical between Game and Technicolor.
According to EvilBoris RGB is bugged on Xbox currently though.
Done any testing in regards to this?
Will try this ASAP.
I must say, it really comes down to the game how dim the picture is. I only have minor issues with RDR2 and Spider-Man. AC Odyssey and Metro Exodus shine like stars on my B7.
Indeed, once both TV and Console are setup properly, they are perfectly fine for universal usage so it will all depends on how an HDR content is mastered and how many HDR settings games are providing for the user.
HDR movies are usually always great when using HDR Game preset (thanks to metadata), but games may vary due to static/absence of metadata.
Games that let you increase the max HDR Luminance to 4.000 nits (e.g. Forza Horizon 4, AC Origins/Odyssey) are in fact the best HDR offerings for these TVs, and probably the best HDR games out there in general so far.
Been a while since I looked in here, but just wanted to post some interesting recent findings in the interest of knowledge share.
Regarding xbox one x Colour Space setting under Video Fidelity and Overscan. For both The Witcher 2 and Skyrim (SDR titles) if I do not enable PC RGB colour space and set my B7 to High black level you will get black crush. There is no other way around it.
So that led me to explore PC RGB colour space and any negative impact on HDR. I have tried Forza Horizon 4 and both Far Cry's and can confirm the image appears unaffected and looks identical to colour space set as standard. No signs of colour banding and TV reports HDR BT2020 engaged.
I'm not sure how many other SDR games need PC RGB engaged to avoid black crush, but it is a fact that the two above do. If anyone highlights any HDR issues as a result please do let me know, but there aren't any in Forza Horizon 4 or Far Cry 5/New Dawn that I could see. Image looked identical. I'm hoping that means the x1x is engaging HDR independently of what ever the colour space is set to. If I come across any issues I'll update.
Hope that helps. If at the very least anyone wanting to play Skyrim or Witcher 2 without black crush.
Regarding xbox one x Colour Space setting under Video Fidelity and Overscan. For both The Witcher 2 and Skyrim (SDR titles) if I do not enable PC RGB colour space and set my B7 to High black level you will get black crush. There is no other way around it.
So that led me to explore PC RGB colour space and any negative impact on HDR. I have tried Forza Horizon 4 and both Far Cry's and can confirm the image appears unaffected and looks identical to colour space set as standard. No signs of colour banding and TV reports HDR BT2020 engaged.
I'm not sure how many other SDR games need PC RGB engaged to avoid black crush, but it is a fact that the two above do. If anyone highlights any HDR issues as a result please do let me know, but there aren't any in Forza Horizon 4 or Far Cry 5/New Dawn that I could see. Image looked identical. I'm hoping that means the x1x is engaging HDR independently of what ever the colour space is set to. If I come across any issues I'll update.
Hope that helps. If at the very least anyone wanting to play Skyrim or Witcher 2 without black crush.
If you have PC RGB enabled on the xbox and start a HDR game, the TV will automatically switch to Black level low. Current TVs don't support full rgb and HDR
That's what I like about the PS4. I leave it on auto and black level on auto too. When I play SDR games both go to full RGB and black level medium, as soon as I launch HDR both switch to RGB Limited and low.
With the Xbox, there is either limited or full. No auto. If you leave it on PC RGB and launch a HDR game, the tv will switch to low black level and I am not sure how the Xbox behaves. Is it switching to limited internally, despite no auto option?
Last edited:
Depends what you mean by cheap. HDR? 4K only?
Main games would be forza horizon 4 and gears 4 for Xbox and horizon zero dawn along with god of war for PS4
x1x: With colour space set on either PC RGB or standard, for Game HDR should still be correctly set to Low black level. Which is correct i.e no difference and/or limited in both scenarios. The only difference is for Game SDR tv mode, where by PC RGB is full and needs the TV set at High black level. Hope that helps clarify.
I would actually throw final fantasy XV into the mix. It's still one of my favorite HDR showcases this generation still. Square did a fantastic job on it.
Stand out as in they have good HDR? I'm not sure if you can properly enjoy it with your TV, but some showcases are the last 2 AC games, Metro Exodus, Horizon Zero Dawn, GT Sport, FH4, Uncharted 4, Shadow of the Colossus, Far Cry 5, God of War and Detroit Become Human.
Both the Tomb Raider games are excellent in HDR. Also Ubisoft recent Creed games, Origins and Odyssey.
EDIT: can only speak from an x1x perspective.
EDIT: can only speak from an x1x perspective.
Full RGB + High Black level should be used exclusively and only for real PC usage (e.g. replacing a monitor) and only for SDR.
With a Game Console and for a mixed usage (SDR/HDR/DV contents' switching), ALWAYS use a Standard/Limited Color Space + Low Black Level to avoid clipping and/or wrong HDR reproduction, as the TV will NOT auto-switch between Low/High Black level even if the console will try to do so (and X1X will not by the way). Plus SDR will still look the same, therefore there's no advantage outside 4:4:4 SDR PC usage.
Last edited:
I'm already aware of your view. And to date I happily have stuck with that.
However SDR does not look the same though for Skyrim and The Witcher 2. If you leave black level on limited i.e low on the TV and standard colour space you get black crush. Thats the whole point of my post. Its a fact. I'm not syaing its with every game, but for those two it is. Skyrim suffers especially badly.
I have only tested the engaging HDR lightly, but I have had no black issue level problems when switching to HDR Game mode. Is this confirmed? Because I dont see it and lets not forget the xbox one x has had some graphic driver updates recently. Thats not saying you're wrong, I'm just not experiencing it yet on the titles I've tested.
It would be great at times if you could try and take on board someone else's findings and discuss in a constructive manner. I do find your rigid stance frustrating and unproductive to learning whats going on with different settings at times.
EDIT: and I've just tested again HDR black level in Far Cry New Dawn in HDR with PC RGB set for colour space. This is my factual finding:
Colour space on PC RGB. Engage SDR with TV black level High, and perfect black level in Game SDR mode, i.e black level high.
Then enabling Game HDR and black level set to low on TV and black levels are again perfectly correct, i.e low correctly engaged.
I can only report what I'm finding. Seriously, try playing Skyrim in SDR standard colour space and you will get black crush. I was surprised by what I was finding, but there we have it.
Last edited:
I experimented a lot based on users' feedback, often backtracking on some choices (as you recently saw regarding HDR Game profile for example), but believe me: I did A LOT of test regards to Standard/Full RGB and Low/High Black Level with 2017 LG OLEDs, and I am not so confident that things could change with a new console firmware upgrade, especially considering that TV Black Level settings behaves like it always did, and this won't change anytime soon.
The thing is that when you select Black Level Low or High on the TV, the TV will stick with that. In the few cases where you can select Black Level "Auto" what happens in reality is that the TV will stick with Low value, no matter what the output source is setup to.
You can change that, but it's super important to ALWAYS match the TV Black Level with the device Color Space (High with Full Range, Low with Standard/Limited range), otherwise you will always have a wrong grayscale reproduction (clipped or raised blacks for instance).
Having said that, if you try Black Level High on the TV to match the Full RGB setting on the X, you will have proper SDR (even slightly more accurate compared to Standard Color Space), but when an HDR will load, the console won't be able to simultaneously output 4:4:4 Full RGB + HDR10 due to HDMI 2.0 bandwidth limitations and then tries to fallback to 4:2:0 Limited range...but this won't Auto change the High Black Level setting on the TV, resulting in super raised blacks and a sepia/gray effect on blacks, killing what OLEDs are best for.
Skyrim and TW3 seem to me as exceptions to the norm and to a proper calibration, as both are mainly native PC games ported on consoles, and probably with Full RGB scale in mind, and usually exceptions should be tuned with their in-game settings, as they will not universally apply to the rest of the contents.
Thanks P40LO. I appreciate the in depth post. I agree with the games being old and perhaps needing the PC RGB due to simply how they were made. I only started exploring this due to how bad the black crush is in Skyrim with standard colour space.
I have tested again tonight. Started by playing Skyrim for a couple of hours. I then, without turning anything off, switched it to Forza Horizon 4 and I can confirm that there are no issues with the TV correctly engaging HDR and switching to Low Black level, having just been in High Black level for SDR Skyrim.
I dont dispute your testing, nor can I tell you I wont discover issues further down the road with other games. However today, right now I'm just not getting any issues at all between the two black level SDR/HDR game modes with PC RGB set as the colour space. I will let you know if I get issues. For now I am getting the best of both worlds though. No black crush on older games and properly functioning HDR with no white clipping or black issues i.e identical image as before in every way.
I wouldnt think it make any difference. However I should note I play with DC off and my x1x passes through a mid/high end Yamaha AVR (with AVR video processing disabled). And the AVR is connected to HDMI 2 on the B7.
I have tested again tonight. Started by playing Skyrim for a couple of hours. I then, without turning anything off, switched it to Forza Horizon 4 and I can confirm that there are no issues with the TV correctly engaging HDR and switching to Low Black level, having just been in High Black level for SDR Skyrim.
I dont dispute your testing, nor can I tell you I wont discover issues further down the road with other games. However today, right now I'm just not getting any issues at all between the two black level SDR/HDR game modes with PC RGB set as the colour space. I will let you know if I get issues. For now I am getting the best of both worlds though. No black crush on older games and properly functioning HDR with no white clipping or black issues i.e identical image as before in every way.
I wouldnt think it make any difference. However I should note I play with DC off and my x1x passes through a mid/high end Yamaha AVR (with AVR video processing disabled). And the AVR is connected to HDMI 2 on the B7.
That should be the reason you are not seeing differences then.
The Yamaha may automatically handle (and fix) the Color Space mismatches before returning the signal to the TV.
For the sake of science, try that again with a direct X1X <-> TV HDMI1 connection, and you will see the greyscale issue I'm talking about in HDR.
That said, if with the AVR you're not having noticeable differences/issue, you can stick with that if you prefer, sure.
P40L0 any tips for HDR settings in COD WWII? It just looks a little washed out when I follow the on screen settings for black and white luminance (barely visible, not visible logos etc) I had heard this was supposed to be a showcase HDR title but so far its been very underwhelming compared to say AC Odyssey and Horizon 4.
I don't have the game, but I read it's the opposite: COD WWII has just a bad HDR implementation that looks bland compared to real HDR game showcases as Forza Horizon 4, AC Origins/Odyssey, Gears 4, Rise/Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Battlefield 1/V
Ever since changing the OLED backlight back down to 50 in Dolby Vision (Netflix) , all content looks extremely dark.
Yes it looks less washed out than before, but the overall image is just very very dark/ pale and hard watch at times, even in pitch black room.
During the day, DV has just become plain unwatchable.
Is this normal?
Yes it looks less washed out than before, but the overall image is just very very dark/ pale and hard watch at times, even in pitch black room.
During the day, DV has just become plain unwatchable.
Is this normal?
Unfortunately yes, if you're using the webOS Netflix app, as DV was dimmed for some reason after the 5.85.xx firmware.
If you use the X1X Netflix app, with same DV Cinema settings, the PQ is super bright and good as before.
Unfortunately I don't have a X1X, do we just deal with this dim image in the meantime until a potential fix comes along?, or are there any recommended settings to make the image brighter without washing out everything?
For webOS Netflix app only you can workaround the dimming using "DV Home Cinema" profile instead of Cinema, this until a new firmware will fix the webOS DV Cinema profile.
For DV Home Cinema profile you can leave everything default, except disabling all Noise Reductions and set TruMotion to 0,0
Is this only on the 2017 OLEDs? I don't think I've had dim Dolby Vision issues on my C8.
(I mostly use the Apple TV 4k Netflix app so that might be why, but I don't remember thinking it was dim the times I used the WebOS app tho)
I don't know for sure if it affects also 2018 sets, but if you are using Dolby Vision through HDMI (with any device capable of DV output as X1X or also Apple TV as you said), you won't have any issue, and everything will be the same as always.
Only webOS DV output got somewhat dimmed probably due to a bug in most recent firmware (and probably only the DV Cinema profile), and probably only for 2017 models.
If you want to try it with you C8, simply play a DV movie using Netlifx app on Apple TV, and just switch to Netflix app on webOS, and resume the same movie from there (using the same calibrated DV Cinema profile).
If you won't see a very noticeably dimmer image on webOS, you are not affected.
Everything default meaning follow the settings you have provided for DV, or default settings on a Home Cinema profile on the tv itself?
Default on TV the makes the image look very "blue" and very different to your other settings.
My settings are not "default", therefore I meant the LG default values of DV Home Cinema.
Try to reset it to its default values using the relative button, then just change the "Image Options" section, disabling Noise Reductions and setting TruMotion to User (0,0)
Hi,
I know this is the 2017 thread, but do any of you use these settings for the B8? Some options have gone from the B8 i.e Edge Enhancer.
I know this is the 2017 thread, but do any of you use these settings for the B8? Some options have gone from the B8 i.e Edge Enhancer.