LG 2017 OLEDs - Calibrated Settings for Xbox One X / webOS (SDR/HDR/DV)

Oct 25, 2017
1,712
That's probably placebo, as 2017 models always had the "dim" HDR Game profile to begin with.
Only on 2016 models they "dimmed" the stock HDR Game (based on HDR Standard) to the 2017 models (based on HDR Cinema, but without Active HDR), but LG already rolled back to 2016 stock one after criticism, so no need to downgrade also there.
Brother I wish it was the case. Having followed the c7 since release on AVS forums the dim hdr game mode has always been a real thing since after 03.51 firmware. I have also tested this myself on various games using in game calibration and on the latest firmware even cranking up brightness hdr settings sometimes does not reach mid-settings on stock firmware.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,712
I have to say the last "dim" games I played were RDR2 and Spider-Man. Games like Days Gone and FC5 are pretty bright and fine. Also tried Spider-Man a while back and I don't know if it is in my head, but that one seems brighter too. Was there an update I don't know about?
If you had a c7 and never had stock firmware, you probably wouldn't notice. But if you owned it since release and then updated firmware to 04.6* you would've immediately noticed a drastic dimming of hdr game mode which LG claims was (is) working as intended to avoid clipping at higher than 700 nits. While this may be true I definitely prefer the original hdr game mode which also allows full control of the color gamut setting while using PC mode in hdr game setting

It is most certainly not a placebo and has been tested and documented by many people on various forums including the main TV thread on this very forum. But if you did not see what it was originally like, you would have never seen a change.
 
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P40L0

P40L0

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Jun 12, 2018
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Brother I wish it was the case. Having followed the c7 since release on AVS forums the dim hdr game mode has always been a real thing since after 03.51 firmware. I have also tested this myself on various games using in game calibration and on the latest firmware even cranking up brightness hdr settings sometimes does not reach mid-settings on stock firmware.
Which stock firmware No. did you restore/flashed back?
I could give it a try and let you know.
Thanks.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,712
Which stock firmware No. did you restore/flashed back?
I could give it a try and let you know.
Thanks.
You actually posted in the very thread that I've followed since 07 and people discussing the dim hdr game mode update on the c7 introduced in firmware 4.70.06 https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-oled-technology-flat-panels-general/2784185-2017-lg-c7-b7-owners-thread-no-price-talk-502.html


Also discussed here sorry if linking not working correctly typing on phone https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-oled-technology-flat-panels-general/2784185-2017-lg-c7-b7-owners-thread-no-price-talk-500.html


But yeah this has been an issue since way back-a simple Google search will bring it up widespread. I noticed it immediately after I updated back then-i was never satisfied with the HDR game mode after that-except when using PC mode in conjunction with HDR standard but that disables many other features
 
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P40L0

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You actually posted in the very thread that I've followed since 07 and people discussing the dim hdr game mode update on the c7 introduced in firmware 4.70.06 https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-oled-technology-flat-panels-general/2784185-2017-lg-c7-b7-owners-thread-no-price-talk-502.html
I am very active in that thread since 2017 series' launch, but cannot find 03.51.20 to download anywhere, and my EU/Italy B7 shipped with a later firmware with the already dimmed HDR Game (as most units after September 2017).

EDIT: Ok, just found a way to download and downgrade to LG 2017 OLEDs' original stock 03.51.20 firmware here and/or using the newer/easier "SURE" Android app method here (European/DVB Region ONLY).
Through this page it's also possible to do it for Australia Region, but I'm not sure if AU firmware also works for US/Korea.
Softpedia drivers' archive should have the proper US version stock firmware, but I am not 100% sure about it.

I will test the stock downgrade on my Italian 55B7V later this night just for science, but this is NOT a recommended method for the majority of users.

EDIT2: Stock 03.51.20 firmware should provide the "old" and original/bright HDR Game mode (based on HDR Standard), with real 21ms input lag and the possibility to also choose Auto color gamut. It would be a much better alternative to PC Mode, but considering it's old firmware there are no SDR/HDR Technicolor Expert profiles here, and you could encounter bugs in YouTube webOS apps or Dolby Vision via HDMI, so keep that in mind. You won't be able to copy/past WB/CMS value to all inputs automatically either.
I will let you know how it goes later today, just for fun... ^^

EDIT3: Reverted to 03.51.20 and even after a Factory Reset from there, HDR Game mode is the "dim" one. Like I said, the "dimming" of the super bright HDR Game (based on HDR Standard) debacle happened on 2016 models... Updating again to latest firmware...
 
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Oct 25, 2017
1,712
^yes hdr game mode is the dimmest setting this is not what what said though, the fact is the new hdr game mode is considerably dimmer than the ORIGINAL hdr game mode. It was never on par with standard etc. If you just switched between standard and game hdr modes, of coursr, the game mode is dimmer


The old hdr game mode is brighter than the new hdr game mode and I'm not sure how you can refute literal thousands of people in the c7 forum who shared the same experience I had :)
 
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P40L0

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^yes hdr game mode is the dimmest setting this is not what what said though, the fact is the new hdr game mode is considerably dimmer than the ORIGINAL hdr game mode. It was never on par with standard etc. If you just switched between standard and game hdr modes, of coursr, the game mode is dimmer


The old hdr game mode is brighter than the new hdr game mode and I'm not sure how you can refute literal thousands of people in the c7 forum who shared the same experience I had :)
I tested it, and it's not "considerably" dimmer than current HDR Game profile, they were very comparable instead.

The big dimming happened on 2016 models, where initial stock HDR Game profile was on par with HDR Standard with Luminance and tone mapping and then got nerfed with even worse results compared to current 2017 HDR Game mode.
LG then backtracked, and brought back the stock HDR Game mode for 2016 users, while on 2017 series they didn't as there was no "HDR Standard-like" HDR Game profile ever to restore, and the 2017 chipset are too weak for 2018 series' Dynamic Tone Mapping...

Also consider that downgrading 03.51.20 killed Dolby Vision on X1X as the TV version is too obsolete and not supported by the console.

I've currently upgraded again to beta 05.80.25 , and I'm currently experimenting and enjoying PC Mode again, using ISF Dark for SDR and HDR Standard for HDR, and I'm not noticing added input lag at all, and PQ is great ;)
 

Insiak

Member
Feb 6, 2018
8
Well you didn't notice higher input lag on HDR PC Standard with 4:2:0 compared to 4:2:2 so please double check it :)
 

Sky87

Member
Oct 27, 2017
894
So what's the conclusion with the Sharpness setting? Is 0 now considered the true non-sharpened image?
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,712
Lol I'm well aware of the 2016 issue but as I've mentioned, linked to you many people with the same issue on the C7 NOT 2016 we also had the same issue :)


It's considerably brighter to me and many others. If you don't see or notice it on your content, congrats.
 
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P40L0

P40L0

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Jun 12, 2018
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Well you didn't notice higher input lag on HDR PC Standard with 4:2:0 compared to 4:2:2 so please double check it :)
422 is not an option as it still adds terrible color banding in HDR while using PC Mode on pre-release firmware 05.80.25

I'm now testing that using 420 (therefore disabling 422 on X1X Video Settings) coupled with selecting 10-bit Color Depth (instead of 8-bit) results in the same input lag as HDR Game mode.

If this will be consistent in all my games, I think I could add a proper alternative to HDR Game to my suggested profiles again, as input lag was the only contraint of the "new" PC Mode so far, and gaming with calibrated HDR Standard with games set to 2.000 nits has the best results ever so far.
 

Insiak

Member
Feb 6, 2018
8
Yeah i know about the banding with 4:2:2, that whas not my point :)

BTW where I can download the beta firmware ? Would like to try it myself, but would it work with EU/Polish model ?
 
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P40L0

P40L0

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Jun 12, 2018
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Yeah i know about the banding with 4:2:2, that whas not my point :)

BTW where I can download the beta firmware ? Would like to try it myself, but would it work with EU/Polish model ?
You can grab it from here: http://webos-forums.ru/topic4625.html

And then put it to an USB drive to connect to the TV, and using the "SURE" Android app on Play Store, also connect it to the TV via WiFi and update from there.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,365
Is there a way to stop the tv from dimming during very bright scenes on SDR? This can get really annoying when watching anything animated
 

Galahad

Member
Oct 27, 2017
225
422 is not an option as it still adds terrible color banding in HDR while using PC Mode on pre-release firmware 05.80.25

I'm now testing that using 420 (therefore disabling 422 on X1X Video Settings) coupled with selecting 10-bit Color Depth (instead of 8-bit) results in the same input lag as HDR Game mode.

If this will be consistent in all my games, I think I could add a proper alternative to HDR Game to my suggested profiles again, as input lag was the only contraint of the "new" PC Mode so far, and gaming with calibrated HDR Standard with games set to 2.000 nits has the best results ever so far.
Sounds awesome. Would definitely be interested in trying out your settings with the PC mode update.
 
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P40L0

P40L0

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Jun 12, 2018
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Sounds awesome. Would definitely be interested in trying out your settings with the PC mode update.
Ok, after playing with PC mode and a dozen of HDR games for a couple of days, I think it is time for a new EDIT :)
  • ALL PROFILES UPDATED TO V7.2 ULTIMATE (with minor tweaks, and all aligned with the goal to have the same PQ switching between them)
  • ADDED 2 OPTIONS FOR X1X/GAMING (Option 1: based on regular SDR/HDR Game; Option 2: based on PC Input/Mode + Input lag FIX!)
  • Firmware 5.80.15 or above is required
  • Added new in-game HDR suggested settings for Option 2
See the OP for more details and new Option 2 links, and let me know which is the Option you like the most.

Have fun!
-P
 

Chris9999

Member
May 12, 2019
2
Hi,
any suggestions for HLG-Mode?
I use UHD-TV-Stream based on that and didn´t found any settings regarding to.
Thanks a lot!
Christian
 

Galahad

Member
Oct 27, 2017
225
Ok, after playing with PC mode and a dozen of HDR games for a couple of days, I think it is time for a new EDIT :)
  • ALL PROFILES UPDATED TO V7.2 ULTIMATE (with minor tweaks, and all aligned with the goal to have the same PQ switching between them)
  • ADDED 2 OPTIONS FOR X1X/GAMING (Option 1: based on regular SDR/HDR Game; Option 2: based on PC Input/Mode + Input lag FIX!)
  • Firmware 5.80.15 or above is required
  • Added new in-game HDR suggested settings for Option 2
See the OP for more details and new Option 2 links, and let me know which is the Option you like the most.

Have fun!
-P
Tested these settings out on a couple games for a few hours. So far I like them more than the Game settings, they feel more accurate overall and still have great input lag. I also noticed that you can edit the white balance/CMS options unlike in game mode. I copied the settings from the webOS recommendations and it looks good to me. Any downsides to doing this?
 

Brhoom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
908
Kuwait
I can't pick a 10-bit color on my PC when in RGB mode, I running on 1080p 60 Hz so I'm not sure if it's still a bandwidth issue or not, Nvidia only allows 8-bit or 12-bit when in RGB
 

mdd45

Member
Nov 8, 2018
18
Also with my pc and HDR, when selecting 420 i can only select color depth 8bit or 12bit. Only with 422 i have the option of 10bit too....

so the pc lag fix is the 420 AND 10bit or it can be also 420 with 12bit too with the PC icon?

Lag by your testing is around 21ms with option 2? anyone tested this with a lag tester?
 
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P40L0

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Tested these settings out on a couple games for a few hours. So far I like them more than the Game settings, they feel more accurate overall and still have great input lag. I also noticed that you can edit the white balance/CMS options unlike in game mode. I copied the settings from the webOS recommendations and it looks good to me. Any downsides to doing this?
Sure you can try, as ISF Dark Room and SDR Technicolor profile should be carbon copies. I just avoided adding also WB/CMS values as I'm still not 100% sure about it (but if switching back and forth between them gives an identical PQ, you're good to go).

EDIT: Yep, tested on webOS, and with same calibration SDR Technicolor Expert and ISF Dark Room are identical twins ;)
 
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P40L0

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Also with my pc and HDR, when selecting 420 i can only select color depth 8bit or 12bit. Only with 422 i have the option of 10bit too....

so the pc lag fix is the 420 AND 10bit or it can be also 420 with 12bit too with the PC icon?

Lag by your testing is around 21ms with option 2? anyone tested this with a lag tester?
I can only speak for the X1X experience about it, and I can confirm that 420/10-bit fixes the bizarre increased input lag of PC HDR Standard compared to HDR Game profile's (so yeah, 21ms feeling also there now).

On actual PC with Windows 10 I'm not sure that the behaviour could be the same, so I would try switching between 422/10-bit and 420/12-bit and see what feels more responsive (if there's a difference as X1X, you will immediately notice).

Keep an eye opened also for increasing color banding when using 422 + PC HDR Standard profile...
 

GReeeeN

Member
Mar 6, 2018
139
question in regards to the new PC Mode HDR options on PS4.

PS4
On PS4, we do not have an option to de-select a color depth setting, or force off 4:2:2 in HDR, so I'm assuming the best settings for PS4 HDR gaming will still be Option 1.
 
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P40L0

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question in regards to the new PC Mode HDR options on PS4.

PS4
On PS4, we do not have an option to de-select a color depth setting, or force off 4:2:2 in HDR, so I'm assuming the best settings for PS4 HDR gaming will still be Option 1.
Try first directly comparing PC HDR Standard input lag to PC HDR Game one (just swapping the two profiles when playing the same game, staying in PC Mode), and if you are not noticing an increased input lag you're good to go.

If you feel it, yeah, the ideal would be disabling 422 and manual selecting 10-bit, but try other combo in PS4 Pro video settings as you could fix it even in other ways.
If nothing works, no problem to roll back to Option 1.
 

mdd45

Member
Nov 8, 2018
18
It is not clear 100% for me for now..

To get the feeling of 21ms on pc mode it has to be a combination of 420 and 10bit only? Have you tried 420 and 12bit? In other words the fix is the use of 420 or the bitrate?

It is not easy on pc playing a game swapping to nvidia control panel to make changes to bitrate etc and have a feeling of lag. I think we need help from someone with a lag tester.

Also when 420 12bit is choosed (on nvidia cp) for
hdr10 games, 10bit is actually used when gaming and just the possiblity of 12bit is unlocked since the games support hdr10 only (beside Dolbyvision games)?
This means that it could work like on xb1x when choosing 420 and 10bit even if it is on win10 at 420 and 12bit?

On ps4 I think you can choose 420 but there is no option for manually choosing 10bit or 12bit, but i have to re check it...
 
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It is not clear 100% for me for now..

To get the feeling of 21ms on pc mode it has to be a combination of 420 and 10bit only? Have you tried 420 and 12bit? In other words the fix is the use of 420 or the bitrate?

It is not easy on pc playing a game swapping to nvidia control panel to make changes to bitrate etc and have a feeling of lag. I think we need help from someone with a lag tester.

Also when 420 12bit is choosed (on nvidia cp) for
hdr10 games, 10bit is actually used when gaming and just the possiblity of 12bit is unlocked since the games support hdr10 only (beside Dolbyvision games)?
This means that it could work like on xb1x when choosing 420 and 10bit even if it is on win10 at 420 and 12bit?

On ps4 I think you can choose 420 but there is no option for manually choosing 10bit or 12bit, but i have to re check it...
The lag tester always shows 21ms input lag on all modes when using PC Input (as shown in the past by DOTDASHDOT), but with actual gaming it was also demonstrated this wasn't true with X1X when using certain Xbox Video Settings.
That's what let me experiment with those, and how selecting 10-bit (disabling 422) from there fixed the issue.

That said, the behavior of PC or PS4 could be different, and input lag will or won't increase with same settings, so you need to find the best combo also from there. Sure thing is to disable 422 and use 420 in PC Mode in HDR (to avoid color banding), then experimenting with Color Depth.
 

GReeeeN

Member
Mar 6, 2018
139
Has anyone tested 7.2 ultimate on PS4 and know what settings to use?

We can lock resolution to 4:2:0, but we have no choice for 8/10/12 bit colour.
Selecting 4:2:0 makes the image washed out and it won’t auto switch to RGB full for non HDR content. I’m sticking with option 1 for ps4 gaming in the meantime until we figure out the right settings for ps4.

Ps4 video out settings are as follows:

Resolution: Automatic, 720p, 1080i, 1080p, 2160p - YUV420, 2160 - RGB

RGB Range: Automatic (Recommended), Limited, Full

HDR: Automatic, Off

Deep Color Output: Automatic, Off
 
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GReeeeN

Member
Mar 6, 2018
139
The lag tester always shows 21ms input lag on all modes when using PC Input (as shown in the past by DOTDASHDOT), but with actual gaming it was also demonstrated this wasn't true with X1X when using certain Xbox Video Settings.
That's what let me experiment with those, and how selecting 10-bit (disabling 422) from there fixed the issue.

That said, the behavior of PC or PS4 could be different, and input lag will or won't increase with same settings, so you need to find the best combo also from there. Sure thing is to disable 422 and use 420 in PC Mode in HDR (to avoid color banding), then experimenting with Color Depth.
So the only option on PC would be 4:2:0 @ 12bit in this instance.

I’ve set this but cant be certain what the lag is like (long day at the office....)
 

GReeeeN

Member
Mar 6, 2018
139
The lag tester always shows 21ms input lag on all modes when using PC Input (as shown in the past by DOTDASHDOT), but with actual gaming it was also demonstrated this wasn't true with X1X when using certain Xbox Video Settings.
That's what let me experiment with those, and how selecting 10-bit (disabling 422) from there fixed the issue.

That said, the behavior of PC or PS4 could be different, and input lag will or won't increase with same settings, so you need to find the best combo also from there. Sure thing is to disable 422 and use 420 in PC Mode in HDR (to avoid color banding), then experimenting with Color Depth.
Switching between HDR Standard and HDR Game on PC input, I can confirm that 4:2:0 @ 12 bit in HDR Standard does feel slightly more sluggish.

Can someone else give this a shot to see if it’s just me?
 
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P40L0

P40L0

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Jun 12, 2018
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When I do these settings and HDR turns on, video output info says 4:2:2 for color format.

Doesn’t this initiate the high input lag?

Edit: this also introduces very noticeable banding
Yeah, the banding is caused by 422.
You should try other combo until you reach 420 with 10-bit or 12-bit Color Depth
 
Oct 28, 2017
748
Brazil
Isn't there some sort of bug between the PS4 and LG OLEDs that will crush blacks in SDR content if the console's RGB range is set to Full/Automatic? I've had horrible results with mine, so I set it to Limited and the TV's black level to Low. Now it looks as I think it should.
 
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P40L0

P40L0

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Jun 12, 2018
820
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Isn't there some sort of bug between the PS4 and LG OLEDs that will crush blacks in SDR content if the console's RGB range is set to Full/Automatic? I've had horrible results with mine, so I set it to Limited and the TV's black level to Low. Now it looks as I think it should.
Yes, Full RGB should be avoided with these TVs as they're meant for RGB Limited + Low Black levels.
 
Oct 28, 2017
748
Brazil
Yes, Full RGB should be avoided with these TVs as they're meant for RGB Limited + Low Black levels.
Thank you!

By the way, these calibrations are great! I was worried that setting Color to 40 in the Game SDR settings would make colors look washed out, but a quick look at Resident Evil Code Veronica's logo was enough for me to agree it's a much more adequate value than 50. With Color set to 50, the RESIDENT EVIL text looks like it's gonna burn in your retina, while 40 makes it look very natural. Also, setting Dynamic Contrast to High on Game HDR really enhanced the effect. Such a great work, P40L0. Thanks again!
 

Galahad

Member
Oct 27, 2017
225
When I do these settings and HDR turns on, video output info says 4:2:2 for color format.

Doesn’t this initiate the high input lag?

Edit: this also introduces very noticeable banding
I've been playing on PS4, best option I've found is to manually switch to 4:2:0 when I'm going to play an HDR game, and manually switch back to RGB when I'm done/going to play an SDR game. Obviously not ideal, but it works.
 
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P40L0

P40L0

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Jun 12, 2018
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Thank you!

By the way, these calibrations are great! I was worried that setting Color to 40 in the Game SDR settings would make colors look washed out, but a quick look at Resident Evil Code Veronica's logo was enough for me to agree it's a much more adequate value than 50. With Color set to 50, the RESIDENT EVIL text looks like it's gonna burn in your retina, while 40 makes it look very natural. Also, setting Dynamic Contrast to High on Game HDR really enhanced the effect. Such a great work, P40L0. Thanks again!
Glad you're enjoying it.
I suggest you to try also both Option 1 and Option 2 to make a definitive idea to what looks and plays best for you.
 

Insiak

Member
Feb 6, 2018
8
It should work also on 05.80.15, as I had never tried 10-bit in PC Mode there. Give it a shot ;)
I've tested this on X1X and lag is definitely higher than in Game Mode. Sorry mate but I think you just can't tell the difference. Only option to have low input lag in PC Mode is either worse than normal Game Mode or HDR Standard with banding (422).

EDIT: Easiest way to check it is to launch Destiny 2 in HDR. Then in controller setting choose sensitivity 10. By doing this I've noticed that even when selecting 422+8bit+PC HDR Standard lag is little higher than in Game Mode. Of course it's lower then 420+8bit+PC Mode.
 
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GReeeeN

Member
Mar 6, 2018
139
I've been playing on PS4, best option I've found is to manually switch to 4:2:0 when I'm going to play an HDR game, and manually switch back to RGB when I'm done/going to play an SDR game. Obviously not ideal, but it works.
So your settings are 4:2:0, limited color and the rest auto for HDR?
 

GReeeeN

Member
Mar 6, 2018
139
I've tested this on X1X and lag is definitely higher than in Game Mode. Sorry mate but I think you just can't tell the difference. Only option to have low input lag in PC Mode is either worse than normal Game Mode or HDR Standard with banding (422).

EDIT: Easiest way to check it is to launch Destiny 2 in HDR. Then in controller setting choose sensitivity 10. By doing this I've noticed that even when selecting 422+8bit+PC HDR Standard lag is little higher than in Game Mode. Of course it's lower then 420+8bit+PC Mode.
This.

I’ve also tried various combinations on both PS4 and PC including the recommended 4:2:0 at 12bit (on pc) and both 4:2:2 and 4:2:0 set with limited on PS4 and HDR Standard always appears to be slightly more sluggish/ have higher lag than traditional game mode.

It might be because both PS4 and PC don’t actually allow you to set 4:2:0 @ 10 bit exactly like XBOX, so we are never truely comparing like for like?
 
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