LG 2017 OLEDs - Calibrated Settings for Xbox One X / webOS (SDR/HDR/DV)

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P40L0

P40L0

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I've tested this on X1X and lag is definitely higher than in Game Mode. Sorry mate but I think you just can't tell the difference. Only option to have low input lag in PC Mode is either worse than normal Game Mode or HDR Standard with banding (422).

EDIT: Easiest way to check it is to launch Destiny 2 in HDR. Then in controller setting choose sensitivity 10. By doing this I've noticed that even when selecting 422+8bit+PC HDR Standard lag is little higher than in Game Mode. Of course it's lower then 420+8bit+PC Mode.
I played hours of fast paced HDR games on X1X with Option 2 settings, both 30fps (Forza Horizon 4, Gears of War 4) and 60fps (Halo MCC, Battlefield 1/V) and input lag felt identical to HDR Game when using 420/10-bit + Standard Color Space.

As soon as I tested again 420/8-bit, I immediately noticed the increased input lag again.

If you also try to use a meter, you would also have 21ms input lag with the tool, demonstrating the increased input lag is caused by the Console itself (when setup in a certain way).

In the end though, Option 1 and Option 2 are there for a reason: people can stick to what looks/plays best for them.
 

GReeeeN

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Mar 6, 2018
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I've got to say though, The Division 2 in Standard HDR mode on PC input looks absolutely stunning. (4:2:0 @ 12Bit on PC).

Dark scenes at night are inky black (switching between Standard and Game mode on PC Input, the blacks in Standard HDR do appear inkier than game mode) and the bright scenes are very bright.

I really get the feeling of the agent running through the dark abandoned streets with an occasional street light providing the only source of light. Looks absolutely incredible.

Although I've noticed some HDR games like DMC5 completely freak out when i use 4:2:0 @ 12 bit (PC Input), making the screen all green/ purple with the only solution of fixing is toggling on/off HDR setting in windows display settings. Didn't get this issue with 4:2:2 @ 12 bit in Game input mode
 
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Ponchito

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Oct 28, 2017
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P40L0 What would you recommend to do with your latest HDR Game settings for the B8, since you’re lowering color value and temp because of High Dynamic Contrast? For the B8, Dynamic Contrast is off since it used Dynamic Tone-mapping.
 
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P40L0

P40L0

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P40L0 What would you recommend to do with your latest HDR Game settings for the B8, since you’re lowering color value and temp because of High Dynamic Contrast? For the B8, Dynamic Contrast is off since it used Dynamic Tone-mapping.
No, I lowered Color Temp to align to the new re-calibration of all profiles, which had as a result a generally slightly colder white/temperature.
You can safely select W40 (instead of W50) also for B8's HDR Game mode, while still keeping Dynamic Contrast OFF (and relying only to Dynamic Tone Mapping).

Just remember to set the B8's HDR Game Mode exaclty as webOS HDR profile for the general settings.
 
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P40L0

P40L0

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Small edit to X1X SDR Profile (Option 2):
  • Added back the same webOS SDR calibrated WHITE BALANCE and CMS values also for PC ISF Dark Room profile, as the profile is totally identical to SDR Technicolor Expert with same settings
 

Ponchito

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No, I lowered Color Temp to align to the new re-calibration of all profiles, which had as a result a generally slightly colder white/temperature.
You can safely select W40 (instead of W50) also for B8's HDR Game mode, while still keeping Dynamic Contrast OFF (and relying only to Dynamic Tone Mapping).
What about the color value? Was it lowered because of High DC? What would you guess is a good value for B8 with Dynamic Tone Mapping.
 
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P40L0

P40L0

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What about the color value? Was it lowered because of High DC? What would you guess is a good value for B8 with Dynamic Tone Mapping.
Color Value both for SDR Game and PC HDR Standard was lowered because of forced Wide (oversaturated) gamut.
No need to lower it down when you are able to select Auto color gamut (as per PC SDR ISF Dark) or regular HDR Game on B8 + Dynamic Tone Mapping (and Auto gamut).
 
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Galahad

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Oct 27, 2017
225
Confirming your finding these settings on PS4 allow you to have the exact same responsiveness in PC Input - HDR Standard mode than Game Input - Game HDR mode?
I don't have any tools to verify, but it feels the same to me. Just a disclaimer I play mostly single player games, but if there is a difference, it's very minor and I prefer the PQ in PC mode. So as P40L0 said, it may be down to preference and if you feel a difference or not.
 
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Big news for Red Dead Redempion 2 owners: Rockstar fixed its HDR in the latest patch!

New suggested settings for:

Option 1:
  • HDR Style: Game;
  • Luminance: 4.000;
  • White point: 120
Option 2:
  • HDR Style: Game;
  • Luminance: 2.000;
  • White point: 120

It's so much better now, so better late than never...

Enjoy! :)
 

Dave1988

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Oct 25, 2017
165
No, I lowered Color Temp to align to the new re-calibration of all profiles, which had as a result a generally slightly colder white/temperature.
You can safely select W40 (instead of W50) also for B8's HDR Game mode, while still keeping Dynamic Contrast OFF (and relying only to Dynamic Tone Mapping).

Just remember to set the B8's HDR Game Mode exaclty as webOS HDR profile for the general settings.
So, on the 8 series we should be using the webOS profile settings instead of the Xbox ones for SDR and HDR game modes?
 

Ponchito

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Oct 28, 2017
789
Mexico City
Big news for Red Dead Redempion 2 owners: Rockstar fixed its HDR in the latest patch!

New suggested settings for:

Option 1:
  • HDR Style: Game;
  • Luminance: 4.000;
  • White point: 120
Option 2:
  • HDR Style: Game;
  • Luminance: 2.000;
  • White point: 120

It's so much better now, so better late than never...

Enjoy! :)
Both say Game as HDR Style. Isn’t one “Cinematic”?
 

GReeeeN

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Mar 6, 2018
139
has anyone done any input lag testing using a Windows PC and the various color depths using 4:2:2 and 4:2:0 in PC Input - HDR Standard mode?
 
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P40L0

P40L0

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So, on the 8 series we should be using the webOS profile settings instead of the Xbox ones for SDR and HDR game modes?
No, you should be using X1X SDR Settings (and SDR Game Mode profile) for SDR Gaming, and webOS HDR settings applied to "HDR Game" profile of the B8 but using Dynamic Tonemapping instead of Dynamic Contrast.
 
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P40L0

P40L0

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Both say Game as HDR Style. Isn’t one “Cinematic”?
Game is the correct, new (and much improved) in-game setting for RDR2.
You should then set 4.000 nits or 2.000 nits depending of which "Option" you're using between the two I provided in the OP for 2017 series.
For 2018 series use Option 1 and HDR Game Mode with Dynamic Tonemapping.
 

ExcitableBoy

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Dec 3, 2018
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Game is the correct, new (and much improved) in-game setting for RDR2.
You should then set 4.000 nits or 2.000 nits depending of which "Option" you're using between the two I provided in the OP for 2017 series.
For 2018 series use Option 1 and HDR Game Mode with Dynamic Tonemapping.
Have you tested these settings on 2018 models?
 

ExcitableBoy

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Dec 3, 2018
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Not personally, but the consensus for 2018 models is to stick with Game mode and enabling Dynamic Tone Mapping for best results (and HDR Game mode is still tone mapped for 4.000 nits there).
Ah ok thanks.

So the cinematic hdr setting is essentially the originals hdr mode with no changes? On,y the game mode has improvements?
 
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P40L0

P40L0

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Ah ok thanks.

So the cinematic hdr setting is essentially the originals hdr mode with no changes? On,y the game mode has improvements?
Yes, Cinematic is exactly the same as the old one.
Game is the new and the only one that can let you calibrate Luminance and Paper White/White Point, resulting in a much better HDR representation where specular highlights are now real HDR highlights.
 

emiliolargo

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Nov 11, 2017
142
Sorry I read like 10 of this thread‘s pages but could not find a clear answer. Can the updated Xbox settings provided for in the OP be transfered to usage of an LG B7 with a PS4 pro or do some settings/values have to be tweaked? Thanks!
 
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P40L0

P40L0

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Sorry I read like 10 of this thread‘s pages but could not find a clear answer. Can the updated Xbox settings provided for in the OP be transfered to usage of an LG B7 with a PS4 pro or do some settings/values have to be tweaked? Thanks!
For Option 1 yes (as long as you set PS4 Pro Video settings to: RGB Limited, and all other lines to Auto).

For Option 2 I would say no, until you can find a way to force 4:2:0 chroma subsampling both for SDR and HDR (as 422 has color banding issues in PC Mode)
 

emiliolargo

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Nov 11, 2017
142
For Option 1 yes (as long as you set PS4 Pro Video settings to: RGB Limited, and all other lines to Auto).

For Option 2 I would say no, until you can find a way to force 4:2:0 chroma subsampling both for SDR and HDR (as 422 has color banding issues in PC Mode)
Thanks a lot for the quick response and your continuous efforts. I wanted to go route/option 1 anyway!
 
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P40L0

P40L0

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Sorry for asking a similar question again but I'd like to confirm this once again - for the LG series 8 sets and PS4 Pro we should be using the following settings:

SDR - Xbox One X + SDR Calibrated Settings (Option 1)
HDR - webOS + HDR Calibrated Settings

Is this correct?
Yes for SDR, while for HDR you still need to select HDR Game mode on 8 Series, copying the webOS HDR settings you linked (whenever possible) and then enabling Dynamic Tone Mapping.

Be also sure to set PS4 Pro Video Settings to RGB Limited, and all other lines to Auto.
 

RoninChaos

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Oct 26, 2017
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Anyone have any issue with their OLED just turning off when you're playing something? Is there a timer or some shit I should be aware of?
 

RoninChaos

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Oct 26, 2017
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Not while gaming but it has happened to me while watching the webos netflix and youtube tv app.
yeah, it happened twice tonight. I don't know if he was sitting on the remote though. lol He's managed to turn off his own controller while playing on the xbox one man times. No idea how he did that.
 
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The Argus

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Oct 28, 2017
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Anyone playing RDR2 again? I'm using the suggested OP settings for HDR gaming on my X and B7. Holy shit. I had actually turned off HDR on the initial release because of the poor implementation and fear of HUD burn in. Played today at 500 Max and 300 paper and it's like I'm watching Planet Earth 2 on UHD Blu-ray.
 
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P40L0

P40L0

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oh, and what are the option 2 versions for? Just another setting to put on a different preset?
It's just an alternative method to have both great PQ and Low Input lag that people can try and decide what's best for them (as HDR Standard tone maps differently compared to HDR Game).
Currently I'm using and preferring Option 2 for X1X, but PS4 Pro users are picking Option 1 setup considering they can't force 420 like X1X can for example.
 

GReeeeN

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Mar 6, 2018
139
It's just an alternative method to have both great PQ and Low Input lag that people can try and decide what's best for them (as HDR Standard tone maps differently compared to HDR Game).
Currently I'm using and preferring Option 2 for X1X, but PS4 Pro users are picking Option 1 setup considering they can't force 420 like X1X can for example.
You can force 4:2:0 on PS4/ PS4 Pro combined with limited color space, as this is an option in the resolution section of the video settings in my previous post, when I listed all the PS4 settings available.

In this case, it should technically make the settings comparable to XB1. The only option we dont have is selecting the the color depth and forcing it to 10bit (only option is Off and Auto, Auto is needed for HDR), which may be the culprit behind the increased lag, but then again, I understand PS4 HDR is @ 10bit only?. The only downside to forcing 4:2:0 this is that you have to manually change back to RGB Limited for non-HDR titles.

I've been testing this for a few days now and the PQ is great. Its now an option of better/ brighter PQ in HDR with slightly increased input lag or a slightly more dimmed Game Mode HDR with better response. Titles like Days Gone pronounce the input lag in Standard HDR, as the response is already a little sluggish on Game Mode, so Standard HDR just makes it more noticeable and harder to aim.

As mentioned by yourself previously and the input lag testing device, I do think the actual input lag may be the same between Standard HDR as Game Mode at 21ms, as the actual input itself and initial responsiveness actually feels quiet similar, but once you start moving, you really feel it.

I'm getting a feeling the way Standard HDR handles motion may be the reason behind this input type feeling a little more "sluggish" and delayed when compared to Game mode, which people may be perceiving as greater lag, which in essence, is correct. There is defiantly a difference/ more sluggish feeling in input and i think the motion handling is the reason behind this, as I also understand, input lag instruments are measured by flashes on the screen rather than actual motion.

That's my take from using Standard HDR vs Game mode for a few days anyway...
 
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P40L0

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You can force 4:2:0 on PS4/ PS4 Pro combined with limited color space, as this is an option in the resolution section of the video settings in my previous post, when I listed all the PS4 settings available.

In this case, it should technically make the settings comparable to XB1. The only option we dont have is selecting the the color depth and forcing it to 10bit (only option is Off and Auto, Auto is needed for HDR), which may be the culprit behind the increased lag, but then again, I understand PS4 HDR is @ 10bit only?. The only downside to forcing 4:2:0 this is that you have to manually change back to RGB Limited for non-HDR titles.

I've been testing this for a few days now and the PQ is great. Its now an option of better/ brighter PQ in HDR with slightly increased input lag or a slightly more dimmed Game Mode HDR with better response. Titles like Days Gone pronounce the input lag in Standard HDR, as the response is already a little sluggish on Game Mode, so Standard HDR just makes it more noticeable and harder to aim.

As mentioned by yourself previously and the input lag testing device, I do think the actual input lag may be the same between Standard HDR as Game Mode at 21ms, as the actual input itself and initial responsiveness actually feels quiet similar, but once you start moving, you really feel it.

I'm getting a feeling the way Standard HDR handles motion may be the reason behind this input type feeling a little more "sluggish" and delayed when compared to Game mode, which people may be perceiving as greater lag, which in essence, is correct. There is defiantly a difference/ more sluggish feeling in input and i think the motion handling is the reason behind this, as I also understand, input lag instruments are measured by flashes on the screen rather than actual motion.

That's my take from using Standard HDR vs Game mode for a few days anyway...
Thanks for the insights.
If PS4 Pro can be forced to 4:2:0 in HDR but requires a manual switch to RGB Limited each time for SDR I think this would not be an ideal solution for everyone, therefore I would still not recommend Option 2 for PS4 Pro even for this reason alone.

Regarding Color Depth, you can't force it on PS4 Pro most probably because the console just takes what the source output is and "pass" it to the TV to handle (exactly as X1X does when selecting 8-bit in its Video Settings).

What X1X does when selecting anything different than 8-bit instead is to reconvert anything using Microsoft encoders before sending the final signal to the TV (so even 10-bit contents will be processed again to "Microsoft's 10-bit" format and then sent to the TV).
Considering I actually notice less input lag when doing so, probably X1X does this to "offload" processing (therefore latency) from the TV SoC, always providing a low latency "pre-baked" signal that the TV will just take and output without any added processing at all, and this could actually guarantee the low input lag.
 
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Manac0r

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Oct 30, 2017
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P40L0.. Was just wondering mate about those of us injecting metadata..? PC 1000 nits or Gatsby`s 4000nits...

I noticed when using option 2 injecting meta data actually dulls the image compared to brightening the image in option 1. I m assuming that's because HDR standard is brighter than game mode by a substantial amount.

I know you dont use a linker but theoretically if one is injecting metadata how would that effect your settings and recommendations? As always thank you for the thread and your continued support...
 
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P40L0

P40L0

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P40L0.. Was just wondering mate about those of us injecting metadata..? PC 1000 nits or Gatsby`s 4000nits...

I noticed when using option 2 injecting meta data actually dulls the image compared to brightening the image in option 1. I m assuming that's because HDR standard is brighter than game mode by a substantial amount.

I know you dont use a linker but theoretically if one is injecting metadata how would that effect your settings and recommendations? As always thank you for the thread and your continued support...
Injectors were useful for 2017 OLEDs only for the dim HDR Game mode as they were the only way to have tone mapping back to 1.000 nits while still having low input lag.
Now that PC Mode is fixed, using Option 2 should be a native way to obtain the same results made possible by Injectors before but without external equipment, as PC HDR Standard profile is tone mapped for 2.000 nits but looks equally bright and with high luminance also for fixed 1.000 nits contents or 4.000 nits contents (with more highlights clipping)

(Yes, HDR Standard is much brighter than HDR Game, and even brighter than HDR Technicolor Expert with Active HDR)
 

Kyle Cross

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Oct 25, 2017
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Injectors were useful for 2017 OLEDs only for the dim HDR Game mode as they were the only way to have tone mapping back to 1.000 nits while still having low input lag.
Now that PC Mode is fixed, using Option 2 should be a native way to obtain the same results made possible by Injectors before but without external equipment, as PC HDR Standard profile is tone mapped for 2.000 nits but looks equally bright and with high luminance also for fixed 1.000 nits contents or 4.000 nits contents (with more highlights clipping)

(Yes, HDR Standard is much brighter than HDR Game, and even brighter than HDR Technicolor Expert with Active HDR)
I've heard this isn't true, and that injecting metadata is still superior?
 
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P40L0

P40L0

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I've heard this isn't true, and that injecting metadata is still superior?
Never bought/used an external injector, so can't personally confirm or denying it.
All I can say is that external Injectors for 2016/2017 series were initially bought to achieve the factory 2016 HDR Game Mode results after the "dimming" and to fix 2017 HDR Game Mode dim by default, but now original HDR Game Mode is officially back again on 2016 models and PC Mode (with same tone mapping and results using PC HDR Standard) is fixed on 2017's.
 

Kyle Cross

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Oct 25, 2017
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Never bought/used an external injector, so can't personally confirm or denying it.
All I can say is that external Injectors for 2016/2017 series were initially bought to achieve the factory 2016 HDR Game Mode results after the "dimming" and to fix 2017 HDR Game Mode dim by default, but now original HDR Game Mode is officially back again on 2016 models and PC Mode (with same tone mapping and results using PC HDR Standard) is fixed on 2017's.
I unfortunately don't know a lot about how it all works either. Paging DOTDASHDOT so hopefully they can.
 

DOTDASHDOT

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Oct 26, 2017
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I unfortunately don't know a lot about how it all works either. Paging DOTDASHDOT so hopefully they can.
Is this 'fixed' Standard PC something that's very recent? Or same as it's always been?

From what I remember PC standard is only getting it's perceived luminance increase from the inaccuracy of that mode, as in really blue whites (which will up the brightness) and too low gamma coupled with really bad colour.

Linker/Vertex is still the best way to enjoy HDR games on a B7 whilst still looking good imo.

FWIW I've got a C8 now, and that has other problems lol.
 

DOTDASHDOT

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Oct 26, 2017
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Also I was speaking to a guy that has a Vertex for a B6, he was asking my advice as he couldn't get it working, turns out the B6 only showed a slight luminance increase when the brightest most ridiculous metadata was used! On a 7 it's a big increase, just goes to show how LG just left the 7's in the dirt, why I don't know.
 

Manac0r

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Oct 30, 2017
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So to confirm those using a linker are better off using game mode with injected meta data..?

I remember when tracking on VHS was all I had to worry about.... Lol
 

Kyle Cross

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Oct 25, 2017
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I've also read over on the AVForums thread on the Linker that there's a hidden option in the service menu for the LG OLEDs that when turned on gives brighter HDR. I can't do this myself because I don't have an IR remote capable of entering the service menu, but the people over in that thread swear by this setting. Some saying that setting being turned on along with an injector like a Linker makes it a whole new TV.

DOTDASHDOT I recall you telling me changing between 1000 nit PC metadata and Great Gatsby metadata should be done on a game by game basis, but there's been some interesting discussion over in the HDR Games Thread that the Great Gatsby metadata basically "turns off" LG's tonemapping. So, should Great Gatsby just be used for every game?

EDIT: LOL, I just realized that thread on AVForums is by you, DOT.
 

Manac0r

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Oct 30, 2017
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Well I just booted RDR2 on xbox1x with option 1 settings... A 1000nit injected meta data and in game settings to HDR game 1500 and paper white 80 and it looks drop dead gorgeous... Panning around as I regulate and happy as Larry. Also Kyle cross I have the service menu option for HDR brightness enabled...cheao remote off ebay did the job...
 

DOTDASHDOT

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Oct 26, 2017
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I've also read over on the AVForums thread on the Linker that there's a hidden option in the service menu for the LG OLEDs that when turned on gives brighter HDR. I can't do this myself because I don't have an IR remote capable of entering the service menu, but the people over in that thread swear by this setting. Some saying that setting being turned on along with an injector like a Linker makes it a whole new TV.

DOTDASHDOT I recall you telling me changing between 1000 nit PC metadata and Great Gatsby metadata should be done on a game by game basis, but there's been some interesting discussion over in the HDR Games Thread that the Great Gatsby metadata basically "turns off" LG's tonemapping. So, should Great Gatsby just be used for every game?

EDIT: LOL, I just realized that thread on AVForums is by you, DOT.
Ha, that option is built into the TV's preset on the 9 series LG's now, tbh I'd leave it as it is, you'll end up changing white for SDR, more than you'll do anything to HDR, not worth it.

If you use Gatsby for every game, you'll clip some games severely, and PC (1000) is more appropriate imo, but horses for courses!
 
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P40L0

P40L0

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Is this 'fixed' Standard PC something that's very recent? Or same as it's always been?

From what I remember PC standard is only getting it's perceived luminance increase from the inaccuracy of that mode, as in really blue whites (which will up the brightness) and too low gamma coupled with really bad colour.

Linker/Vertex is still the best way to enjoy HDR games on a B7 whilst still looking good imo.

FWIW I've got a C8 now, and that has other problems lol.
I don't know exactly when you last tested 7 series' PC Mode, but HDR Standard in PC Mode with proper settings and temperature has no accuracy or color issues at all, as it can be basically identical to calibrated HDR Technicolor Expert with Active HDR (just even brighter, and with slightly more highlights clipping on 4.000 nits and above contents), with also low input lag.
 

DOTDASHDOT

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Oct 26, 2017
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I don't know exactly when you last tested 7 series' PC Mode, but HDR Standard in PC Mode with proper settings and temperature has no accuracy or color issues at all, as it can be basically identical to calibrated HDR Technicolor Expert with Active HDR (just even brighter, and with slightly more highlights clipping on 4.000 nits and above contents), with also low input lag.
Not for a good while, I just know what it was like, but if that is indeed possible to get it accurate without pro calibration, then that's good.