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John Doe

Avenger
Jan 24, 2018
3,443
Exactly right. He admits what he did was stupid. He has admitted it was wrong and he is ashamed. He has changed. Why is it so hard to accept that, forgive and move on? Why do we need to beat someone down until they are finished? I'll never understand it...

The story came out less than a week ago and you want black people to instantly forgive him? You can't understand why people are slow to forgive?

I'm sorry I forgot the age old truth that black people are expected to instantly forgive and forget any instances of racism.

Instead, why is it so hard for YOU to accept that some people rightly have a problem with this? Why do you expect black people to instantly give Neeson a hug and tell him its okay? Its not.

No one is obligated to "forgive" Neeson and I'm sure his life will continue to be fine if people don't.
 

marrec

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,775
Don't know why people choose Liam Neeson as a hill to die for. Like really?, they can't just help themselfs.

They want to be afforded the same as they are affording Neeson.

If they come forward at some point and admit to some racist action or thought, they want to be able to trust in the public to forgive and forget.

They want to be treated to same as the majority of white America are treating Neeson and are insulted on his behalf when forgiveness is not immediate and full.
 

Greg NYC3

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,494
Miami
Wait... what?

Why are you bringing this back to the woman who was raped? Like, are we supposed to be forgiving of his racism because his friend was assaulted?
One the last posters in the locked thread basically asked why we were ignoring the fact that a black man committed a rape which I can only assume is the new version of "WHAT ABOUT BLACK ON BLACK CRIME???".

I mean unless you're attempting to justify Neeson's actions the race of the attacker has no relevance.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,595
Florida
This guy went out looking for a black person to kill and were supposed to give him a pat on the back for not doing so? No thank you. There are people who actually go out and attack black people and other minorities just because they exist. He was better off not saying anything.
 

marrec

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,775
This guy went out looking for a black person to kill and were supposed to give him a pat on the back for not doing so? No thank you. There are people who actually go out and attack black people and other minorities just because they exist. He was better off not saying anything.

I think white people should have a space where they can openly and frankly discuss their ignorances and biases because it's depressingly hard to change for the better if you internalize everything.

However, a press junket is NOT that space.
 

El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
36,050
What I am learning from this thread:

Not only do white people always, ALWAYS get the benefit of the doubt, if and when they do mutter out a half-assed apology, PoC are IMMEDIATELY expected to forgive everything and carry on as if nothing happened, and if we don't, WE are the ones with the problem.
 

DIE BART DIE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,847
Neeson refusing to actually admit he was a racist is what is particularly galling here. Just fucking admit it dude, why so shy?

I bet Mark Wahlberg is gutted he's missing out on a medal. Still, actually following through with hate crimes netted him a lucrative Hollywood career, so every cloud :)

  • In June 1986, Wahlberg and three friends chased after three black children while yelling "Kill the nigger, kill the nigger" and throwing rocks at them. The next day, Wahlberg and others followed a group of schoolchildren taking a field trip on a beach, yelled racial epithets at them, threw rocks at them and "summoned other white males who joined" in the harassment.
  • In April 1988, Wahlberg approached a middle-aged Vietnamese man named Thanh Lam on the street and, using a large wooden stick, struck him in the head until he was knocked unconscious while calling him a "Vietnam fucking shit". That same day, Wahlberg also attacked a second Vietnamese man named Hoa "Johnny" Trinh, punching him in the eye without provocation. According to court documents regarding these crimes, when Wahlberg was arrested later that night and returned to the scene of the first assault, he stated to police officers: "You don't have to let him identify me, I'll tell you now that's the mother-fucker whose head I split open." Investigators also noted that Wahlberg "made numerous unsolicited racial statements about 'gooks' and 'slant-eyed gooks'". Wahlberg believed he had left Trinh permanently blind in one eye.

MV5BMTkzMzgzMTc1OF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwNjQ4MzE0NjM@._V1_.jpg
 

Deleted member 30544

User Requested Account Closure
Banned
Nov 3, 2017
5,215
I think white people should have a space where they can openly and frankly discuss their ignorances and biases because it's depressingly hard to change for the better if you internalize everything.

However, a press junket is NOT that space.

I bet that his intention was a to tell a bullshit story just to try and sound badass in order to connect his lame characters to his real life persona and mixing it with some sort of "personal enlightenment leeson " just to sound more humble. His connection with "the black bastard" was totally out of nowhere and uncalled for.

I bet his publicist was having a dandy day with just a press junket, normal day and all LMAO.
 

darz1

Member
Dec 18, 2017
7,093
I think white people should have a space where they can openly and frankly discuss their ignorances and biases because it's depressingly hard to change for the better if you internalize everything.

However, a press junket is NOT that space.
Only Liam wasnt talking about his ignorances or biases according to him, he was only talking about his anger problems. He never intended for this to be a conversation about racism because he believes he was never racist. He thought he was just telling a story of anger and a misplaced want for revenge.
 

marrec

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,775
Only Liam wasnt talking about his ignorances or biases according to him, he was only talking about his anger problems. He never intended for this to be a conversation about racism because he believes he was never racist. He thought he was just telling a story of anger and a misplaced want for revenge.

Definitely, I just mean I think white people should be more willing to be vulnerable in some group setting so that they aren't just internalizing all their culturally imported racial feelings and then getting confirmation from external sources like Fox News.
 

Deleted member 4072

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
880
Exactly right. He admits what he did was stupid. He has admitted it was wrong and he is ashamed. He has changed. Why is it so hard to accept that, forgive and move on? Why do we need to beat someone down until they are finished? I'll never understand it...
No idea, there's no way to eliminate racism and all of these other hate crimes with this way of thinking. Might as well just end the discussion right after you label them. Different with every scenario of course.
 

Kewlmyc

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
26,721
I feel that if he just said that he had racist thoughts 40 years ago, but since then, has talked with and befriended black people, and learned that his old way of thinking was wrong and has made steps to no longer think like that, than the blowback would be either non-existent or at least less severe.

Like, what is it with some people in Hollywood having no idea how to actually apologize for something and admit they fucked up? Like Neeson already admitted to wanting to kill someone, so why can't he go slightly further and admit he had some racist tendencies way back when? I mean, the story he tells spells it out, he just won't say it himself.
 

marrec

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,775
No idea, there's no way to eliminate racism and all of these other hate crimes with this way of thinking. Might as well just end the discussion right after you label them. Different with every scenario of course.

Nah this isn't the right way to view this. Why do we have to go from one extreme (immediate forgiveness) to the other (never eliminate racism).

This shit is HARD. It's never going to be easy, cause if it's easy that means we're doing a disservice to minorities.
 

Halbrand

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,616
One thing you won't get on this forum is people accepting that people can change. It's always if a person did X thing years ago they are always Y. Doesn't matter if you have learned from your mistakes and realise how wrong you are, you will always be what people label you here. In this day and age he was stupid to come out and say it because in this day and age there is no such thing as growth as a person and learning values in life.
Exactly right. He admits what he did was stupid. He has admitted it was wrong and he is ashamed. He has changed. Why is it so hard to accept that, forgive and move on? Why do we need to beat someone down until they are finished? I'll never understand it...
Agreed completely
 

Enzom21

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,989
I want to know why some of you are so invested in wanting black people to absolve Neeson of his racism?
Why is forgiveness for this particular white man so important to so of you?
Talking about: "What does he have to do, cut off his hand?!" You act as if people are attacking you personally for not immediately being okay with racism like you are.
 

skillzilla81

Self-requested temporary ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,043
No idea, there's no way to eliminate racism and all of these other hate crimes with this way of thinking. Might as well just end the discussion right after you label them. Different with every scenario of course.

Weird how the way to eliminate racism is to just forgive the perpetrators and for the victims and survivors, the very people those actions are impacting, to be ignored.

And then, when the oppressed say, "Wait, that's fucked up" we loop back to, "They said they're not racist. They've grown. Why are you mad. It's YOU that's actually causing the racism."

The real way change happens is for people to be challenged like this, to look at the damage their words and actions have caused, to acknowledge that, and move forward to make changes in their thoughts and actions. If a person wants to change, it shouldn't matter that they're "labeled," because they shouldn't need outward motivation to change.

I don't believe in change at gunpoint, because as soon as the motivation is gone, they'd slip right back to their real self and habits. So, for me, even if Liam Neeson starts trying to address this, I'd give him the sideye, because I don't believe he's doing it for himself, but for PR.

And that's fine, because it's just MY opinion. I don't have to trust this dude, and my lack of trust in him doesn't have an impact on his life. But the idea that we should just forgive these instances like this absolutely has an impact on mine and every other black person's life. And that's why this is so fucked up.
 

marrec

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,775

I assume you agree with the "I'll never understand it" part as well?

Let me see if I can help; white people will never understand it.

It's so hard to immediately forgive because America isn't so far removed from public lynchings. Young black men are killed in modern lynchings every week by people who never face accountability. Young black women are abused and die in police custody on the regular. We have a president who paid for a full page ad trying to convince a city to participate in the modern lynching of five innocent young black men.

That's not even taking into account the normal background levels of racist radiation faced by minorities.

So why is it hard to accept? Because forgiveness for racism is predicated on a white majority in a system of white supremacy, we take agency away from black people when we tell someone like Neeson "all is forgiven my friend I'm glad you've changed".
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,018
I want to know why some of you are so invested in wanting black people to absolve Neeson of his racism?
Why is forgiveness for this particular white man so important to so of you?
Talking about: "What does he have to do, cut off his hand?!" You act as if people are attacking you personally for not immediately being okay with racism like you are.

It's another form of oppression. Be forgiving or else you deserve these feelings of anger and misery. They aren't encouraging forgiveness, they're demanding acquiescence.
 

Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
11,186
No idea, there's no way to eliminate racism and all of these other hate crimes with this way of thinking. Might as well just end the discussion right after you label them. Different with every scenario of course.
This is moronic, hate crimes aren't going to end if Black people forgive everyone... If this your extent of understanding on this topic why are you commenting on it in such a simplistic manner?
 

Zed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,544
This whole situation seems to support the idea that if you have a horrible secret about yourself that only you know you gain nothing from sharing it. (I'm assuming these were only thoughts in Neeson's mind and he never shared them with anyone else until recently)
 

marrec

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,775
This whole situation seems to support the idea that if you have a horrible secret about yourself that only you know you gain nothing from sharing it. (I'm assuming these were only thoughts in Neeson's mind and he never shared them with anyone else until recently)

I mean, you certainly gain nothing from sharing it to the entire nation via a press junket and leaving out any kind of recognition that what you did was racist.

Otherwise, no. If you want to "gain something" from sharing a horrible secret, do that in a support group or with a therapist.

I need to start a class for white people on how to do this shit cause the only thing this situation makes obvious is how ignorant most people are.
 

Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
11,186
This whole situation seems to support the idea that if you have a horrible secret about yourself that only you know you gain nothing from sharing it. (I'm assuming these were only thoughts in Neeson's mind and he never shared them with anyone else until recently)
No it implies if you have a dark secret and are unwilling to accept any fault for the darkest aspects of it, it's better to share it to a therapist than to the world in a public as many will almost certainly mention the flaws of your "lessons learned"
 

skillzilla81

Self-requested temporary ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,043
Whenever I see people say Era is a hivemind, I want to point them to any thread about black people.

Of course, when I see that, I know that it's just another statement showing that our voices don't really matter.
 
OP
OP
mutantmagnet

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,401
Right, like the people asking, "Well what does he have to do?"

My opinion is not going to impact this man's life one iota. His response for the second interview showed me that he doesn't realize what the problem is, and any supposed change in character regarding this subject from this point would be suspect to me. That's my opinion. It doesn't impact him or anybody else except me.



Yup yup.
The problem is that there are two problems.

Liam Neeson's retelling doesn't just expose the his active racism and the passive racism of many people defending him here and elsewhere.

It exposes his sexism and how men and way to many women recontextualize rape to be about men's feelings.
 

skillzilla81

Self-requested temporary ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,043
The problem is that there are two problems.

Liam Neeson's retelling doesn't just expose the his active racism and the passive racism of many people defending him here and elsewhere.

It exposes his sexism and how men and way to many women recontextualize rape to be about men's feelings.

Yep, there's no reason for him to use this moment of extreme violence against his loved one as some sort of story about how he himself overcame rage.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,018
Whenever I see people say Era is a hivemind, I want to point them to any thread about black people.

Of course, when I see that, I know that it's just another statement showing that our voices don't really matter.

If Era were actually a hivemind, why would we be arguing about everything everyday? It's the dumbest complaint possible and it's always made in the middle of an argument.
 

Palette Swap

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
11,212
This whole situation seems to support the idea that if you have a horrible secret about yourself that only you know you gain nothing from sharing it. (I'm assuming these were only thoughts in Neeson's mind and he never shared them with anyone else until recently)
Particularly if you think this is somehow a winning strategy to sell your dumbass movies, and if you completely sidestep acknowledging or apologizing for your spectacular racism.

Then again, it might be a winning strategy given the number of diet racists who'll go out of their way to whine about people's lack of understanding.
 

Helot_Azure

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,521
Yep, Neeson should have kept this shit to himself. The more he talks, the more fucked up it gets and he just keeps digging himself in a deeper hole. Who the fuck believes that talking about patrolling the street and trying to attack black people is a good idea to discuss? I agree with an earlier poster, this dude wanted to tell some story about how he was a bad ass seeking revenge just like his movies. Too bad it has backfired spectacularly.

In the words of Black Dynamite:

10lkUdy.gif
 

ISOM

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
2,684
This whole situation seems to support the idea that if you have a horrible secret about yourself that only you know you gain nothing from sharing it. (I'm assuming these were only thoughts in Neeson's mind and he never shared them with anyone else until recently)

I think the bigger issue is that you better address the issue at the core of the dark secret. It doesn't seem like Neeson does which is why people aren't forgiving him so easily.
 

Deleted member 42055

User requested account closure
Banned
Apr 12, 2018
11,215
Whenever I see people say Era is a hivemind, I want to point them to any thread about black people.

Of course, when I see that, I know that it's just another statement showing that our voices don't really matter.

Yuuuuup, imagine being indignant over POC people not immediately giving Neeson a pat on the back and a plate of cookies, but yet there we are with some people ITT.
Sometimes I honestly don't know how the Black populous in America functions positively, you are all having to fight some type of battle EVERY single day because of how horrible people are over skin color. That, and you have to " fight" that battle in the most careful kind of way lest people vilify you for daring to be hurt or angry. It would drive me insane.
 

Deleted member 52988

Account closed at user request
Banned
Feb 2, 2019
74
Seems strange that a lot of people are more upset about the the simple fact that he spoke about this than the actions themselves.

Everyone is free to make their own judgements but if anything, I'm happy for white people to share these sorts of feelings. Its a little off-putting that it came up in the context of a movie promo but I think he's trying to do good.

That obviously doesn't excuse what he did in the first place.
 

GrizzleBoy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,762
The biggest point for me, is that at the end of it all, his initial statement is condensed into:

"My close friend was raped.

I asked "was it a black man".

She said yes, so I went out to black neighborhoods with a weapon looking to kill any "black bastard" who started with me.

No "black bastards" started with me so in the end I didn't kill any blacks.

I eventually calmed down and felt really bad and ashamed.

In conclusion I finally realised that Raci-..........

Ra-.....

Racis-........

REVENGE is wrong. And that's why I do these movies so people don't so revenge in real life."


And that's it.

Theres no acknowledgement of his racist thoughts, actions, intent, prejudice or discrimination.

Just "revenge is bad mmmkay".

How is that evidence of learning his lesson? It's the complete direct opposite.

I'm not even saying I believe he's racist today, but if he can't admit he was racist back then, he ain't getting that pat on the back.


If I went about looking for a woman to murder because my wife left me for another guy and took all my money, and I admitted I did that, citing that my only lesson learned was that I should've demanded a prenup and not the idea that murdering an innocent woman because another woman upset me, I'd be a social outcast (and more) real quick. There would be nobody arguing about whether the simple admission and feeling bad about not getting a prenup shows I am truly remorseful.

But here we are in a situation where as part of an advertising campaign for his revenge movie, a man admits to wanting to specifically get revenge on innocent black people who did nothing to him, and he felt bad and that's why revenge is bad, but that's why he makes revenge movies so people don't do revenge in real life.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
This whole situation seems to support the idea that if you have a horrible secret about yourself that only you know you gain nothing from sharing it. (I'm assuming these were only thoughts in Neeson's mind and he never shared them with anyone else until recently)

Not necessarily, a big problem was how he framed it, his actions afterward to redeem himself (like not doing charity work for this specific cause) and it was in the wrong space. All three contributed to him getting backlash because they were horrid choices during press interviews.

I think the bigger issue is that you better address the issue at the core of the dark secret. It doesn't seem like Neeson does which is why people aren't forgiving him so easily.

This.
 

gozu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,340
America
This kind of thinking is so strange to me. It's like you're actively trying to be upset.

1. How often have you had to deal with racism?
2. What is the point of your post, exactly?

"Actively trying to get upset". God forbid I should be upset at racism.

edit: maybe you wanted to say something else and were afraid to get banned. That's the only thing I can think of. What a weird-ass post
 

Dalek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,962
I had only read the intitial interview-but I heard Howard Stern play it today. When Liam said "...black bastard" my eyes nearly popped out of my head.
 

Eddie

Banned
Jun 3, 2018
1,367
This is like someone that has been in one too many movies recently and has lost touch with reality.

He shared that story as if he was setting up a plot line for an upcoming movie. TF you doing sharing something that dark without making sure you can articulate properly where you're getting at with said story.

But seriously even a , "I was young, stupid, full of emotions , and let all that combine to a rage of racist and violent thoughts .....never have I ever gotten to a place like that again in my life nor will I" would at least be a bit better than not acknowledging how racist that shit is.

This movie he's in also sounds pretty fucking great too, totally soured my desire to see it.
 

EarthPainting

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,877
Town adjacent to Silent Hill
On the one hand, I think it's good of him to talk about it. That poisonous line of thinking is one of those things everybody assumes happens, but rarely is admitted to. It's hard to address these issues if the perpetrators aren't honest with themselves. Just the fact that he threw it out there feels like a level of acknowledgement we usually don't get.

On the other hand, something tells me if this story was about his friend being attacked by a pit bull, and him going around looking for random dogs to bash their skulls in, he wouldn't have as many defenders as he does now. He may have changed and regrets that time, but I'm not going to high-five a Zimmerman for not finding his Trayvon Martin. Especially not when he talks about it like the racist angle was born from revenge. When the first question you ask is what the culprit's race is, it sure sounds like the racism was already there and the revenge was just the excuse he needed to escalate things.