Lindsay Ellis and Princess Weekes: The Case for Fanfiction

Fiction

Fanthropologist
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Oct 25, 2017
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I, of course, found this video to be super educational. It's a fairly basic break down, but it doesn't need to go into depth to make its argument.

It also makes the argument in a better way than I have the thousands of times I've butted heads with nearly everyone in this community over the art of Fanfiction.

Thoughts?

Also, in before "lol art"

Edit: For an extremely well written deeper dive into the subject, please check out this thread/essay by one of our own:
However, even among well-meaning people here on ERA, I notice a trend that has, for decades, been common in male-oriented online fandoms: a deep dislike or discomfort with traditionally female ways of engaging with media, such as fanfiction and "shipping." Movies that people don't like are criticized as being "like fanfiction." The website Tumblr has become a dogwhistle for "insane fangirls." People who engage in shipping -- an enormous number of the fanbase of any given work -- are openly derided as "crazy" or "weird." Many of the people doing this are likely unaware of the history behind these types of fan interaction. So I've decided to create this post to provide an overview and history of these concepts, why they're important to so many fans, and why I find it frustrating that they are so easily dismissed by a large chunk of people.
 
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Deleted member 52442

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Can’t watch the video until later but my current thoughts -

Never been my style as someone who likes writing. Other people are welcome to it but i don’t really respect fan fiction and see it as a beginner exercise only. Think there’s more to be gotten from creating your own characters and worlds than taking from existing ones
 

SigmasonicX

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Oct 25, 2017
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It's the pretty standard "many modern writers used to write fanfiction too" and "many classic works of literature are actually fanfiction" arguments, with some history of how authors responded to fanfiction thrown in. Nice to see in a video from them, but still, now that I've resumed writing fanfiction myself (after a break of 13 years), I prefer to just say that writing fanfiction is fun. Nothing more needs to be argued about it.
 
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Fanthropologist
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I am a fan of fiction, yes.
I'm a fan of Dennis so it works out.
Can’t watch the video until later but my current thoughts -

Never been my style as someone who likes writing. Other people are welcome to it but i don’t really respect fan fiction and see it as a beginner exercise only. Think there’s more to be gotten from creating your own characters and worlds than taking from existing ones
I hope you actually watch the video because it addresses this in the video and I want to know if Neil Gaiman, famous fanfiction writer, can change your mind.
It's the pretty standard "many modern writers used to write fanfiction too" and "many classic works of literature are actually fanfiction" arguments, with some history of how authors responded to fanfiction thrown in. Nice to see in a video from them, but still, now that I've resumed writing fanfiction myself (after a break of 13 years), I prefer to just say that writing fanfiction is fun. Nothing more needs to be argued about it.
It is fun yes, but the amount of eye rolling and 'looking down on them' that occurs in places like era is disappointing considering the genre is a way for marginalized communities (women, POC, LGBT) to create media for them.
 

BDS

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Oct 25, 2017
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I did a similar thread on this subject two years ago that went about as well as expected:


There is a definite need for the conversation on how the constant mocking of fanfiction among predominantly male fandom is a coded form of gatekeeping and misogyny.
 
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Fanthropologist
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I did a similar thread on this subject two years ago that went about as well as expected:


There is a definite need for the conversation on how the constant mocking of fanfiction among predominantly male fandom is a coded form of gatekeeping and misogyny.
I remember that thread. I tried to help. :/

I've actually started writing fic again while simultaneously working on my novel. I have to do it in secret though, because one is real writing and the other is 'girly teenage bs'

I am turning 39 in a few days and I've actually been paid to write fight me.
 

dyelawn91

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Jan 16, 2018
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Fanfiction and other creative fandoms are literally the only good fandoms. I don't really engage with any of it anymore, but I will take creative people trying to expand upon and engage with something they love in a proactive, positive, and hands-on way over endlessly rehashing arguments about The Last Jedi every fucking time.
 

Veelk

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Oct 25, 2017
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I hope you actually watch the video because it addresses this in the video and I want to know if Neil Gaiman, famous fanfiction writer, can change your mind.
Will watch the video in a bit, but I'm already on fanfiction's side since ALL fiction is effectively fanfiction and whether something can be 'canon' tends to depend more on the copyright status of a work than anything else.

For example, if were to write a brand new story about Detective Benoit Blanc from Rian Johnson's Knives Out except I placed him in ancient roman times (In which, he keeps the southern accent, of course) and publish it, I'd have some royalties to pay to Rian Johnson.

But if I were to do Sherlock Holmes, no one would bat an eye. Because Sherlock Holmes is public domain while Benoit Blanc is not. But the actual act of taking X character from a franchise you didn't make and placing them in a place they weren't intended to be in by their original creators is the same act in both cases. It's the exact same thing, the difference is whether the IP rights holder can get pissed at me or not.

(incidentally, Neil Gaiman wrote what imo is one of the most elegant ending fix-fics. He didn't like the idea that Sherlock Holmes would go be a beekeeper, since that seemed out of character for him. So he wrote a story that contextualized why he did that was more in character, even though the context is one that Arthur Doyle would never in have ever written. It's great, it's called the Case of Death and Honey.)

And even 'original' works generally aren't. The act of imagination is not making up something wholesale new, but combining what is known in new ways. When someone made up the unicorn, they just imagined a horse that had a horn. When soemone made up dragons, they took aspects of lizards and bats and other animals to make a new animal.

Such it is with writing original fiction. George RR Martin himself admits that A Song of Ice and Fire is him retelling the true history of The War of the Roses but with dragons and magic, not dissimilar to how Tolkien constructed his cosmos after looking at Norse Mythology and throwing in his Christianity into it, and Star Wars is very blatant about how it's a mishmash of hundreds of different influences.



So I would argue that writers, however original they get, never actually stop writing fanfiction. It's just a matter of how self aware they are that they are alway, always, always combining and recombining constituent parts to make a new whole. The only practical use of originality as a metric is whether you can publish it without being sued.
 

CatDoggo

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Oct 25, 2017
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It'll never make sense to me that fan art is a generally accepted practice that creators will often outright spotlight, along with some people even make money off of it despite that being a legal gray area, while fan fiction continues to be looked down upon and ignored. There's just about as much bad fan art as there is fan fiction, and yet the entire practice doesn't get the same bad rap. At the end of the day, there is a lot of amazing fan fiction out there that can hit downright professional quality, but because a bad slash fan fic someone made when they were twelve is still out there, we gotta act like all fan fiction is terrible.
 
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Will watch the video in a bit, but I'm already on fanfiction's side since ALL fiction is effectively fanfiction and whether something can be 'canon' tends to depend more on the copyright status of a work than anything else.

For example, if were to write a brand new story about Detective Benoit Blanc from Rian Johnson's Knives Out except I placed him in ancient roman times (In which, he keeps the southern accent, of course) and publish it, I'd have some royalties to pay to Rian Johnson.

But if I were to do Sherlock Holmes, no one would bat an eye. Because Sherlock Holmes is public domain while Benoit Blanc is not. But the actual act of taking X character from a franchise you didn't make and placing them in a place they weren't intended to be in by their original creators.

And no one in their right mind would deny that the various adaptations, spin offs, and replications, the original Sherlock Holmes stories have been not only matched, but surpassed.

(incidentally, Neil Gaiman wrote what imo is one of the most elegant fix-fics. He didn't like the idea that Sherlock Holmes would go be a beekeeper, since that seemed out of character for him. So he wrote a story that contextualized why he did that was more in character, even though the context is one that Arthur Doyle would never in have ever written. It's great, http://www.pages.drexel.edu/~ina22/200/The%20Case%20of%20Death%20and%20Honey.htm

And even 'original' works generally aren't. The act of imagination is not making up something wholesale new, but combining what is known in new ways. When someone made up the unicorn, they just imagined a horse that had a horn. When soemone made up dragons, they took aspects of lizards and bats and other animals to make a new animal.

Such it is with writing original fiction. George RR Martin himself admits that A Song of Ice and Fire is him retelling the true history of The War of the Roses but with dragons and magic, not dissimilar to how Tolkien constructed his cosmos after looking at Norse Mythology and throwing in his Christianity into it, and Star Wars is very blatant about how it's a mishmash of hundreds of different influences.



So I would argue that writers, however original they get, never actually stop writing fanfiction. It's just a matter of how self aware they are that they are alway, always, always combining and recombining constituent parts to make a new whole. The only practical use of originality as a metric is whether you can publish it without being sued.
I adore Gaiman's Sherlock Holmes fanfic.
And this was beautifully stated thank you. Its true, we never stop writing fanfic. You can call it being inspired by something, but we all draw from a well of media we've already consumed when we are creating.

My current obsession, the tv show Lucifer, is biblical fanfic, as is Supernatural. Arguably the Bible has inspired more fanfic than even Sherlock Holmes. With shows like Lucifer and Supernatural, it reflects a change in culture that would have been impossible even 30 years ago. Reworking the stories of the Bible to make the characters have flaws, or be more realistic, or in Lucifer's case, in an attempt to redeem the bad guy. Its glorious.
 

collige

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Oct 31, 2017
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I adore Gaiman's Sherlock Holmes fanfic.
And this was beautifully stated thank you. Its true, we never stop writing fanfic. You can call it being inspired by something, but we all draw from a well of media we've already consumed when we are creating.

My current obsession, the tv show Lucifer, is biblical fanfic, as is Supernatural.
Arguably the Bible has inspired more fanfic than even Sherlock Holmes. With shows like Lucifer and Supernatural, it reflects a change in culture that would have been impossible even 30 years ago. Reworking the stories of the Bible to make the characters have flaws, or be more realistic, or in Lucifer's case, in an attempt to redeem the bad guy. Its glorious.
This raises an important question of whether it should be considered bible fanfic, Gaiman fanfic, or both.
 

Platy

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The video needs an even bigger focus on star trek since basically star trek gay fanfiction was basically what started fandoms as we know it. If we have big Hal 8 panels with Marvel is because some woman had the hots for kirk kissing spock

Also it is fun how people will complain about fanfiction of chars kissing but then post that captain america supports trump
 
Nov 2, 2017
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There are so many people that consider anything "bad writing" that it doesn't really surprise me that fanfiction is being shat on as a whole. Writing in general is something that is really misunderstood by people. It's something many assume can be done by anyone, and that pretty much anyone reading anything is somehow an expert on what "good writing" is. More often than not, it's because the writing doesn't go in the direction that they want. The second you challenge the idea a bit, you realize how shallow it is.

Fan-fiction has a lot of "bad" associated to it, because of the sheer amount of it that exists. Just like there's a huge amount of bad fan-art, but I think drawing is more "respected" as a talent than writing, because it's more obvious who actually can or can't draw.
 

HotHamBoy

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Oct 27, 2017
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Fan fiction is the equivalent of fan art? No?

why is fan art generally accepted and cool but fan fiction considered lame and embarrassing?

working within established worlds with established characters lets you focus on other elements and can be great exercises. That applies to both mediums.

i guess the biggest difference is that you can glance at a picture and absorb its totality but it takes an investment of time to read something.
 

BDS

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It'll never make sense to me that fan art is a generally accepted practice that creators will often outright spotlight, along with some people even make money off of it despite that being a legal gray area, while fan fiction continues to be looked down upon and ignored. There's just about as much bad fan art as there is fan fiction, and yet the entire practice doesn't get the same bad rap. At the end of the day, there is a lot of amazing fan fiction out there that can hit downright professional quality, but because a bad slash fan fic someone made when they were twelve is still out there, we gotta act like all fan fiction is terrible.
Creators can't acknowledge fanfiction because it opens legally risky avenues for them. If a storyline appears in their work that is in any way similar to an existing fanfic, they could get sued and their admission of reading fanfic used as evidence against them.
 

ScoobsJoestar

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I tend not to like fan fiction. Eh that’s not quite right, let me elaborate. Now, to be fair, I’ve even written some - uh don’t want to say what I wrote, but I wrote one story that currently has just under a thousand reviews (wrote it years ago, never finished and I feel guilt still when I get a review alert asking me to finish it).

That said, despite writing it..I still don’t have the greatest opinion of fanfiction. I think too often it’s done poorly and often enough they diverge so heavily from what the characters are like in the story without justification that they just feel bizarre. It’s a great training tool, but the problem is that I’ve personally found that the training wheels can keep you from growing as a writer.

There is good fanfiction out there and yes, the legal aspect is a huge part of why it’s not respected - it’s seen as an amateurish endeavour. But things like Master & Apprentice, Claudia Grey’s excellent Star Wars novel are still effectively fanfiction, just legal ones. Still, there is a line between “fanfiction” and fanfiction, for better or worse and it impacts public reception.

And again, as someone who has written fanfiction before...I don’t really respect fanfiction, and I don’t think I should have to. I love it at times, but it’s okay to love something and still not ascribe it a level of importance or nobility. I like fanfiction, but it has much to mock and I don’t really think it needs any protection. It does its own thing and it knows what it’s doing.
 
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This raises an important question of whether it should be considered bible fanfic, Gaiman fanfic, or both.
Haha I didn't think of that. Its loosely based on the comics by Gaiman (very loosely), so I think it's both tbh.
I actually didn't want to watch it at first because it wasn't staying true the comic but I finally gave it a go and it's amazing as fuck in it's own right.

Gaiman is my fanfic hero.
 

Deleted member 18021

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Fan fiction is the equivalent of fan art? No?

why is fan art generally accepted and cool but fan fiction considered lame and embarrassing?
Because people only get exposed to meme bad-on-purpose fanfiction through dramatic readings, or maybe they once dipped their toe into FF.net, found something that turned them off for any number of reasons, and then generalize based on that. There's also just way more of a commitment to reading something, compared to looking at fanart, lol.

Like, there's a looooot of bad fic out there. But if you haven't found something you liked, you probably haven't looked all that hard.
 

ScoobsJoestar

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Haha I didn't think of that. Its loosely based on the comics by Gaiman (very loosely), so I think it's both tbh.
I actually didn't want to watch it at first because it wasn't staying true the comic but I finally gave it a go and it's amazing as fuck in it's own right.

Gaiman is my fanfic hero.
I can’t really say that it’s amazing because it rehashes the same plot almost every episode and it avoids progress like it’s a harem anime when it comes to the main two characters but honestly, I’d sit through a show about paint dry if Lucifer’s actor was the narrator. That man is good.
 

Veelk

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This raises an important question of whether it should be considered bible fanfic, Gaiman fanfic, or both.
Haha I didn't think of that. Its loosely based on the comics by Gaiman (very loosely), so I think it's both tbh.
I actually didn't want to watch it at first because it wasn't staying true the comic but I finally gave it a go and it's amazing as fuck in it's own right.

Gaiman is my fanfic hero.
Oh, it goes deeper than that. Neither Neil Gaiman nor the people of the TV show are drawing much of Lucifer from the bible itself, where he is just an opponent of God.

All the sympathetic "Cry for the devil" stuff? That's obviously John Milton's Paradise Lost which, you guessed it, is
* f a n f i c t i o n *

So, the chain of influence is, roughly, that Lucifer TV show runners are writing a work 'based' on Neil Gaiman's Lucifer, but both seem to have primarily written a fanfiction of Paradise Lost's Lucifer, which seems to have been a fanfiction of the Bible's Lucifer, but chances are there were probably some more fanfics inbetween that Milton based his work on.
 

elyetis

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Oct 26, 2017
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At this point I pretty much put fan fiction at the same level as light novels ( which can often start as web novels ), both are something I usually don't get really invested into ( mostly because I feel like more often than not it seems like authors will disapear before finishing the story ) but enjoy reading a few chapters off before going to sleep.
 
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Fanthropologist
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Oh, it goes deeper than that. Neither Neil Gaiman nor the people of the TV show are drawing much of Lucifer from the bible itself, where he is just an opponent of God.

All the sympathetic "Cry for the devil" stuff? That's obviously John Milton's Paradise Lost which, you guessed it, is
* f a n f i c t i o n *

So, the chain of influence is, roughly, that Lucifer TV show runners are writing a work 'based' on Neil Gaiman's Lucifer, but both seem to have primarily written a fanfiction of Paradise Lost's Lucifer, which seems to have been a fanfiction of the Bible's Lucifer, but chances are there were probably some more fanfics inbetween that Milton based his work on.
We can go deeper.

It also draws a ton from Talmudic lore
I can’t really say that it’s amazing because it rehashes the same plot almost every episode and it avoids progress like it’s a harem anime when it comes to the main two characters but honestly, I’d sit through a show about paint dry if Lucifer’s actor was the narrator. That man is good.
I'm wondering when you stopped watching because growth and self actualization is like, 90% of the plot :p

Edit: Agree about Tom Ellis whew. The man can act and he's a total hottie.
 

Siggy-P

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Mar 18, 2018
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Havn't watched the video yet but I'll just say that fan fiction is a great tool to begin as a writer. Get you used to the idea of writing and improving at it. Learning how to prose is something that requires practice and stuff.
 

Lord Azrael

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Oct 25, 2017
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Can't watch the video right now but definitely saving it for later

I will say, in my mind certain properties lend themselves much better to fanfiction than others. Something like Pokémon, for example, where the important part is the world, concept and creatures rather than any specific characters, lends itself very well to fan work. As opposed to say a property with very established characters, where it's harder to care what happens to them because I know it's not canon
 

ScoobsJoestar

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We can go deeper.

It also draws a ton from Talmudic lore

I'm wondering when you stopped watching because growth and self actualization is like, 90% of the plot :p
I mean more like how the show pushed Chloe not finding out about who Lucifer is despite it being teased a thousand times. I’m sure she eventually found out, but by that point I had tapped out. Yeah, sure, don’t reveal it so early if you want to drop it later but then don’t pretend it’s gonna be a thing like every few episodes. That’s what I had an issue with to be honest.
 

dyelawn91

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Jan 16, 2018
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All the sympathetic "Cry for the devil" stuff? That's obviously John Milton's Paradise Lost which, you guessed it, is
* f a n f i c t i o n *
Seems a little disingenuous to call poetry someone wrote based on events, people, and divine beings the author believed were historical fact fanfiction.
 
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I mean more like how the show pushed Chloe not finding out about who Lucifer is despite it being teased a thousand times. I’m sure she eventually found out, but by that point I had tapped out. Yeah, sure, don’t reveal it so early if you want to drop it later but then don’t pretend it’s gonna be a thing like every few episodes. That’s what I had an issue with to be honest.
They address that too. Human denial is a funny thing. Also, when Netflix got ahold of it, the quality jumped by a billion.

His therapist is arguably the real star of the show, since mental health, self actualization and self loathing, depression and guilt, denial, etc are such heavy themes throughout the show.

They had to draw it all out at first because it was a 'procedural' at first. I would say it no longer is at all. Sure they still solve crimes but it's very much not the focus of the show anymore.

Plus when Chloe finally did get it was in such a dramatic fashion mmm *fingerkiss*

Edit: Y'all hot me monologing about Lucifer I'll stop derailing now, sorry.
 

Veelk

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Oct 25, 2017
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Seems a little disingenuous to call poetry someone wrote based on events and people the author believed were historical fact fanfiction.
Not really. Hamilton was a real historical person and involved in real events, it's still accurate to say Hamilton the Musical is a fanfiction'd story of him.

Look, the term fanfiction isn't really good to describe the a creative process going on because it means "fiction that one is a fan of", which is going to be most people. People rarely write fiction they hate. But what the process actually is is: "Take intellectual event/person/property -> morph it into something else in some other way" and that's it. That's all it amounts to, and it's not only something every writer practices, we apply it to not just other fiction, but real life events.

As long as you're being creative with a thing, your fanning a fiction.

When you start thinking about it this way, it's very obvious how silly it is to hate on anyone for 'not writing originally'.
 
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Seems a little disingenuous to call poetry someone wrote based on events, people, and divine beings the author believed were historical fact fanfiction.
RPF is definitely a thing.

It's one thing to say, write a poem in tribute of someone real, or like an essay or a work describing their early life.

Its quiet another is add more personality, events, other characters that did not exist, or imagine that real person in a relationship with other real people. Or imagine that perhaps Satan needs to be forgiven too.

While I am the type to shy away from RPF (I'm an oldfan and stuck in my ways, keep it secret keep it safe) I don't look down on it.
 

dyelawn91

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Jan 16, 2018
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Not really. Hamilton was a real historical person and involved in real events, it's still accurate to say Hamilton the Musical is a fanfiction'd story of him.

Look, the term fanfiction isn't really good to describe the a creative process going on because it means "fiction that one is a fan of", which is going to be most people. People rarely write fiction they hate. But what the process actually is is: "Take intellectual event/person/property -> morph it into something else in some other way" and that's it. That's all it amounts to, and it's not only something every writer practices, we apply it to not just other fiction, but real life events.

As long as you're being creative with a thing, your fanning a fiction.

When you start thinking about it this way, it's very obvious how silly it is to hate on anyone for 'not writing originally'.
But when you broaden the term that much it becomes meaningless. When you say "fanfiction" to someone whose reaction isn't "What are you talking about?" what's going to come to mind for that person is, more or less, fiction written by fans of genre properties from the 20th and 21st centuries that is based on characters and events from those properties. To argue anything else is not really taking into account how the term is actually used by people.

I want to be clear that I agree with the spirit of your argument, though. Every artist is stealing or borrowing from something else, even if they don't realize it.
 

Veelk

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Oct 25, 2017
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But when you broaden the term that much it becomes meaningless. When you say "fanfiction" to someone whose reaction isn't "What are you talking about?" what's going to come to mind for that person is, more or less, fiction written by fans of genre properties from the 20th and 21st centuries. To argue anything else is not really taking into account how the term is actually used by people.

I want to be clear that I agree with the spirit of your argument, though. Every artist is stealing or borrowing from something else, even if they don't realize it.
I would say that the term is meaningless. It's not that I'm making it that broad, it is that broad.

That people don't use it that way? That's more of an indication that it's just a really bad term because it just means that anyone who actually cares to explore the nature of fanfiction will see very quickly that everyone's been writing fanfiction since basically the start of time.

And the biggest issue with changing it is that most of the population either doesn't care about it enough to have explored the concept enough to make that realization or else they dislike it and it's writers so they prefer to keep it framed as only where you write about current property that somebody as the rights to so they can keep it as a pejorative term. And of course, a lot of people who do understand fanfiction is a weak term will still use it as even though it's bad at describing the concept it contains, it's the path of least resistance in just talking to people about it and just don't care that some people don't get how pervasive fanfiction is. So, don't expect a movement to alter the word we use for how people create any time soon.

Plus, I'd have to think of what a better term would be for it. The scientific word for it would be Major Property Derived Fiction maybe? Way too mouthy tho.



That said, there is one inherent limitation that goes in on it - Fanfiction has to be fiction. Otherwise, any recounting of any event would amount to fanfiction, and I don't think that should apply to news reports or documentaries, even though no matter how much they try, they will have their own bias that translates the story into being atleast slightly different from what actually happened. So if your worried about the broadness of the term, that's a good limitation on it: that it has to be fiction.
 

SigmasonicX

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Oct 25, 2017
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One interesting development is how some people who have worked on cartoons are openly posting about fan content made while they worked on that show. One Tumblr with a ton of this, from a former My Little Pony: Equestria Girls storyboard editor (former due to the show ending), Bevin Brand, mainly in the early posts. That page also has fan art and commissions drawn after she finished her work on the show.

She's even collaborating with a fan writer on upcoming fan fiction.
 

Jakenbakin

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Jun 17, 2018
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I love fanfiction. I haven't read one since Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality. Eliezer's recommendation of Worm turned me to web serials, which seems very close to the community of fanfiction, but I wish I belonged to some kind of community to seek out fanfiction I would enjoy. Are there any noteworthy forums, sites, or subreddits anyone would suggest for a good community in... in the community, I guess?
 

Deleted member 52442

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Video didn’t change much for me at all. Still think fan fiction is more of an exercise than anything else. If you were going to be getting it out there, I would go about it the retooling for publishing way that 50 shades of Grey and apparently Mortal Instruments did. Like some people here are mentioning I don’t think there’s any fighting characters looking like or being retreads of previous famous characters, but the idea of taking them, name and all, and doing whatever you’re doing with them just doesn’t sit well with me. If there’s an effort to transform them then it’s all gravy.

This is probably specifically for modern characters/stories. I don’t really care what’s done with historical characters and stories, if it’s compelling it’s compelling
 

Surakian

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Oct 27, 2017
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I write and read fanfiction. Fanfiction has always existed, and it is disappointing how it always gets shunned.

I was just reading a tweet the other day about how zines used to be primarily fanfiction but modern day zines have completely forced out writers. On top of the shunning of fic writers by a lot of people despite the love of fanart, it has made it hard for fanfic writers to share their work or feel comfortable about talking about it. I know I am scared to on my social media.

I’m grateful for this video.

I love fanfiction. I haven't read one since Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality. Eliezer's recommendation of Worm turned me to web serials, which seems very close to the community of fanfiction, but I wish I belonged to some kind of community to seek out fanfiction I would enjoy. Are there any noteworthy forums, sites, or subreddits anyone would suggest for a good community in... in the community, I guess?
I don’t have a community to recommend but I usually just find my favorite fic authors and see if they have social media, then follow fans who have similar tastes and engage in conversation with them.

Livejournal and dreamwidth cracking down on popular media communities and NSFW writing really gutted the fanfiction community and then Tumblr also cracking down on everything they deemed NSFW even if it wasn’t has kind of left fic writers without any real place to discuss writing outside of Twitter.
 

Actinium

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,185
California
The entire extended epilogue of homestuck was basically a really long contemplation on the relationships between cannon and fan works and that maybe there is no clean seperation between them.