Lindsay Ellis: We Need To Talk About Game of Thrones

Squid Bunny

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Jun 11, 2018
1,370

Fuu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,328
Was waiting for this take. Thankfully it's a two-parter because when it was ending I was thinking "that's it?".

Appreciated the recap through. I read all the released books, but dropped the show around season 3.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,351
Atlanta GA
Dropped the garbage show after Season 4 but I've been thinking of watching the rest just so I feel like I can talk about it but then I realized I just dont want to talk about this piece of shit anymore. Part 2 will be a nice sendoff for this waste of an adaptation.

Why does the phrase "We need to talk about" repel me from any activity so hard?
Because usually when a parent or SO says that, it means something bad XD
 

King Alamat

Member
Nov 22, 2017
1,893
I wish she had skipped the recap and not bloated the episode out into two parts even if I got some amusement out of the recap. It felt like this video was lacking a lot of the usual criticism lindsay does which will come in part 2
I appreciated it because I didn't watch the show, I'm just here for the trainwreck.
 

kaebie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
636
Did she ever walk back on that Twilight video? Because after knowing what Meyer is, oof, not a good look.
Why should she "walk back" on talking about the sexist circlejerk that surrounds the Twilight series for any reason? She was right, and it needed to be said. This mentality that targets need to embody the perfect victim and be character checked before deserving acknowledgement is harmful garbage that poisons every discussion about sexism. Maybe you should reflect on that, because, oof, not a good look.
 

muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
7,921
a sunken pirate ship
Isn’t it actually a rebellion led by the formerly slaveholding local aristocracy?
No, not really lol. When Daenerys conquered Mereen and Slaver's Bay she freed all the slaves. The former slave masters allied together to take back the cities she freed and reinstitute slavery.

OK. I was prepared to experience bad writing but considering that went down while the show was still taking material from the books to adapt, it sounded a little too bad to believe, at least the way I interpreted it. In this case I'm quite relieved to have been wrong.
 

caliph95

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,874
On The Westworld thing Slayven so he can correct me

This reminds of an event DC did in the 90s called Armageddon 2001. which had powerful villain, Monarch from the future and the story was a mystery of his identity.

Basically one of the people that was investigated as potential Candidate, Hawk was investigated and found out it couldn't be him. Apparently in the future he was fighting the villain so it couldn't be him and other stuff how couldn't be the villain like his character being different and not having the means to do so. However people in the real world through a leak figured out that the villain was Captain Atom.

Of course they already set up Atom as being the villain and not Hawk but they had to surprise readers and suddenly the story didn't make sense
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,698
I wonder how many hours per day does Lindsay trawl through r/freefolk.

Anwyays, this is a tad too late to the party. Everything that could be said about the show has been said. She doesn't even have new jokes.
 

Slayven

You probably post about me on another board.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
35,489
On The Westworld thing Slayven so he can correct me

This reminds of an event DC did in the 90s called Armageddon 2001. which had powerful villain, Monarch from the future and the story was a mystery of his identity.

Basically one of the people that was investigated as potential Candidate, Hawk was investigated and found out it couldn't be him. Apparently in the future he was fighting the villain so it couldn't be him and other stuff how couldn't be the villain like his character being different and not having the means to do so. However people in the real world through a leak figured out that the villain was Captain Atom.

Of course they already set up Atom as being the villain and not Hawk but they had to surprise readers and suddenly the story didn't make sense
Correct but your forgot the best part. They created a character with a powerset just to handle the recon. Waverider, when he touches someone he sees their future, but it also makes it so that future is less likely to occur now. So he happened to touch Captain Atom and see him as Monarch....the rest is history
 

Border

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,296
The first 20 minutes is just a snarky recap of ALL 8 SEASONS. I have no idea why this was deemed necessary, as none of her other videos really seem to do this. Skip to around 21:15 for actual discussion and analysis of the show.

It's hard to discuss the idea of how having "an ending point" messed up the show, because it's unclear to me at what point Weiss and Benioff actually learned how ASOIAF was actually meant to end, and the details that needed to be included along the way.
 

Truant

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,312
Why does the phrase "We need to talk about" repel me from any activity so hard?
Because it's usually a veiled "Hey that thing you like sucks and I'm gonna make myself seem woke by pointing out some pretty obvious flaws that most fans can live with" rant.

Not always, but still. It's a smart way to get attention, so I get why it's a popular schtick. Lindsay did awesome work on the Hobbit trilogy, so I feel this kinda thing is a bit beneath her.
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,698
The first 20 minutes is just a snarky recap of ALL 8 SEASONS. I have no idea why this was deemed necessary, as none of her other videos really seem to do this. Skip to around 21:15 for actual discussion and analysis of the show.

It's hard to discuss the idea of how having "an ending point" messed up the show, because it's unclear to me at what point Weiss and Benioff actually learned how ASOIAF was actually meant to end, and the details that needed to be included along the way.
This video is a total waste of time. She didn't have a single interesting or revealing insight that hasn't been regurgitated an nauseam in the last month by dozens/hundreds of outlets.

And it's a two-parter? Maybe she should've skipped part 1 altogether.
 

Kai Dracon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,621
Rita Repulsa's Moon Palace
Making this mostly a recap with snark and memes kinda feels like it was a joke that got out of control.

Lindsay is usually quite efficient with quickly explaining past plot points in a work as needed to provide context for the point at hand.
 

John Dunbar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,029
hopefully the next video will be better. as someone who wallowed in got hate during season eight (and before), this really offered nothing of interest.
 

muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
7,921
a sunken pirate ship
This video is a total waste of time. She didn't have a single interesting or revealing insight that hasn't been regurgitated an nauseam in the last month by dozens/hundreds of outlets.
I mean I will say as someone with basically no knowledge of the show beyond it being that "HBO incest fantasy thing" that the recap was mostly helpful in contextualizing stuff though I agree there's not much of any novel analysis here beyond comparing its approach to other prestige TV (including other prestige incest TV)
 

Mulciber

Member
Aug 22, 2018
2,811
That was a fun episode, but it didn't really say much. I love Ellis tho, so I liked the video, of course. :)
 

Border

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,296
This video is a total waste of time. She didn't have a single interesting or revealing insight that hasn't been regurgitated an nauseam in the last month by dozens/hundreds of outlets.

And it's a two-parter? Maybe she should've skipped part 1 altogether.
I think some sort of recap is in order just because people that binged the show probably have trouble differentiating between what happened when and in which season, but a 20 minute recap is way too much.

If someone hasn't seen the show ever I don't know why they would want to watch a 45 minute video about Game of Thrones, and even if they did that recap probably isn't going to help them really understand any of the arguments being made.
 

SJRB

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
2,214
The script reading sequence is insane, the actors' reactions are incredible.
 

NaDannMaGoGo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,765
I was looking forward to this but can only agree that there's not that much of worth here. The recap seemed particularly pointless since it's filled with joke names and the like that make it next to impossible to really get an understanding if you haven't already seen the show yourself.

Well, mentioning how irrelevant Clegane Bowl is from a dramatic standpoint is a start. Even large parts of /r/freefolk seemed to be genuinely into that, and not just for the meme potential.
 

Rhaknar

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,114
every time someone posts a Lindsay Ellis video I think "oh yeah I shouldw atch more of her videos", she does great stuff
 

RatskyWatsky

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Oct 25, 2017
7,078
Mostly redundant, but still cathartic despite having consumed hours worth of deconstructions of GoT at this point. I'm looking forward to the second episode, which will hopefully have more meat on its bones.
 

JaeCryo

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,850
Pretty weak video, almost made worse by the self-admittance of lack of meaningful content. Hopefully pt. 2 makes up for it.
 

SJRB

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
2,214
Pretty weak video, almost made worse by the self-admittance of lack of meaningful content. Hopefully pt. 2 makes up for it.
Don't think there's much to say that hasn't been said by 2000 other Youtubers already. Season 8's catstrophy isn't some mystical enigma, everyone and their mom can figure out what went wrong with this shit.
 

Wanderer5

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,321
Somewhere.
HOT FANTASY, THAT FUCKS!

Pretty fun video, and can't wait for the 2nd part. And yeah, that Westworld thing reminded me of Armageddon 2001, which there were even later attempts of backpedaling on that change lol.
 

Boom Roasted

Member
Feb 8, 2018
36
I legit laughed at the monetize my feelings line and the Khaled meme. Rest of the video is pretty on point too, but man those lines...hahaha too good.
 

Cuburger

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,971
As someone who has only seen like the first 3 episodes, I think the recap was unnecessary since the memes/jokes didn't really make any more sense and it fast forwards through so much that it doesn't exactly make any of her later points any more clear since she gives you the context you need anyways. That being said, maybe she wrote this prior to everyone in the world doing a write up about what went wrong and either had to rewrite parts or had to elaborate on ideas she had that hadn't already been beaten into the ground.

The second half of the video does get into some interesting topics about storytelling with a planned ending versus no plan, or just analyzing D&D's approach in general. I've seen quite a view videos and read write ups about GoT following the finale out of curiosity despite not watching the show, so I wouldn't say the video has nothing to add to the discussion. I'm interested in the second part. I definitely find it interesting in terms of how things went wrong for GoT as an adaptation, and then when they ran out of source material, how they dropped the ball on characters development and themes, especially when it seems they became the victim of their own desire to be smarter than the audience or the need to surprise fans and subvert expectations. In that sense, GoT is a cautionary tale to creatives.
 

Tochtli79

Member
Jun 27, 2019
265
Mexico City
I've only seen a few of her other videos, but I felt this was a bit underwhelming. I was expecting an analysis of what season 8 got wrong, some commentary on the genre/maybe a bit on the books, not a sarcastic recap of the HBO series. Seems that'll be in part 2, though, so hopefully it's not a long wait.
 

djinn

Member
Nov 16, 2017
2,758
As someone that's never seen or is interested any GoT I was gonna watch this because it's Lindsay Ellis content. But then the first few minutes is just rape scene after rape scene and naaaaaawwwww thanks.
 

Speevy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,212
Some of you are saying she is late to the party but I'd argue she is early.

She really needs to step back and develop a comprehensive breakdown of the series. This would solve the problem of being just another GoT video.

There is something to say about the show on the whole, but taking a year would boost everyone's interest and help to gain some more content/perspective.
 

4Tran

Member
Nov 4, 2017
804
The writers have stated that "themes are for 8th grade book reports", which is so wrong on so many levels that it's hard to fully explain just how dumb that statement is. Not surprisingly, treating basic coherence with contempt leads to, as you said, mind-bogglingly bad storytelling.

I don't know where that mentality comes from either. To me, it smells too much like these people felt like paying attention to the plot threads of the story was too much work, so they threw all that out the window, pulled whatever they wanted out of their asses, and hid behind this "we're too good to pay attention to themes anymore" bullshit attitude as a way to run from all criticism.
If I were to give the most generous spin on the quote, Benioff could have meant that it isn't necessary for writers to be purposeful in creating theme with the implication that it can arise naturally from the writing. Still, it reeks of a man whose interest in ASOIAF was that it could surprise and shock the audience rather than the things the series is actually good at.

The first 20 minutes is just a snarky recap of ALL 8 SEASONS. I have no idea why this was deemed necessary, as none of her other videos really seem to do this. Skip to around 21:15 for actual discussion and analysis of the show.
the recap exists so that people like me who don't watch the show can still watch the video. I thought that Ellis' video was pretty good. Sure, maybe a million other videos cover similar territory, but those other videos tend to be for people who watch the show so there's no reason for me to watch them.
 

Keldroc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,022
If I were to give the most generous spin on the quote, Benioff could have meant that it isn't necessary for writers to be purposeful in creating theme with the implication that it can arise naturally from the writing.
I certainly tried to tell myself that's what he meant but Season 8 makes it pretty clear he meant exactly what he said.
 

Regulus Tera

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,385
Felt like the recap in the first twenty episodes was unnecessary. Ellis' videos generally have a flow that makes her one of the best reviewers online, but going that route was just a drag.
 

Border

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,296
the recap exists so that people like me who don't watch the show can still watch the video. I thought that Ellis' video was pretty good. Sure, maybe a million other videos cover similar territory, but those other videos tend to be for people who watch the show so there's no reason for me to watch them.
I'm not sure if some 4 quips-per-minute recap is really going to give you any kind of good context for story discussion though. It's like going to a CinemaSins video to learn the plot of Inception.

Her broader points can largely be made without a detailed rundown of every single season......the second half of the video doesn't even seem to explicitly refer to specific events and arcs anyway. You don't need a rundown of the entire series to understand the difference between Hound vs. Brienne and Cleganebowl, and the recap didn't even touch on details specific to those characters anyway.