Lindsay Ellis: We Need To Talk About Game of Thrones

WillyFive

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,867
It was crazy seeing how big an upgrade in production values the show got after the first few seasons.
 

El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,008
Didn't know about this either but found this:



To be quite frank, disliking his film is one thing, saying this about him, even as a joke, is an incredibly fucked up thing to say. She's not an idiot, she knows full well that people are gonna take that seriously and believe it.

"I don't like this guy's work and neither does my audience/peers, let's tell everyone he hates his mother." Is fucking disgusting.
Jeez, that's fucked up.
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,142
Did I miss a Lindsay Ellis backlash in the last month? The tone in this thread is wildly different than threads about her normally are.
 

Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,079
Fell off her critique when she became a little too self-aggrandizing for my tastes. Then there was a video where she mockingly "shilled" an ad for her channel with an "It sucks that I am doing this, this is for losers" attitude. When people called her out on it she just doubled down on the next video with "For the people who CANT GET NUANCE I'm going to EXPLAIN to you what I actually meant" and then she did the same thing again.

I mean, there are far worse Youtubers, for sure, and more power to everyone that likes her, but yeah, not for me.
Youtubers stopping their vid to disingenuously plug some shit without a hint of self-awareness is worth some mockery, though.
 
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El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,008
Did I miss a Lindsay Ellis backlash in the last month? The tone in this thread is wildly different than threads about her normally are.
The vid, while imo funny, presented nothing you haven't seen before if you've been even casually following GoT the past few months. That it came out months after every other YouTube personality gave their two cents about the show makes it worse.
 

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,312
She was then informed of reality and instead of apologizing, she played victim and doubled down with, "relax, twas but a joke." The excuse every edgelord, wanna terrible comic makes right next to "sorry you were offended." And, what sort of ridiculous notion do you have where unless the person insulted demands an apology you don't have to give one?
She literally didn't say that. She sighed and recognized that her tasteless joke didn't land. Where is she making herself a victim in that screenshot?

Yeah, her joke was tasteless and dumb. So are all "Your Mom" jokes. Should I inform everyone who's ever made a "Your Mom" joke that they're, in fact, bad people? Imagine judging people's moral character based off isolated bad jokes on social media.

Why should she apologize to a random fanboy commenting? She hasn't done them any harm. The entire situation is a mountain out of a molehill. If she had made some joke about Snyder's daughter, knowing the context of that tragedy, that would be an example of moral heinousness — but this, in ignorance? Naw, sorry.
 

John Kowalski

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,661
She literally didn't say that. She sighed and recognized that her tasteless joke didn't land. Where is she making herself a victim in that screenshot?

Yeah, her joke was tasteless and dumb. So are all "Your Mom" jokes. Should I inform everyone who's ever made a "Your Mom" joke that they're, in fact, bad people? Imagine judging people's moral character based off isolated bad jokes on social media.

Why should she apologize to a random fanboy commenting? She hasn't done them any harm. The entire situation is a mountain out of a molehill. If she had made some joke about Snyder's daughter, knowing the context of that tragedy, that would be an example of moral heinousness — but this, in ignorance? Naw, sorry.
this tbh
 

Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
5,386
She literally didn't say that. She sighed and recognized that her tasteless joke didn't land. Where is she making herself a victim in that screenshot?

Yeah, her joke was tasteless and dumb. So are all "Your Mom" jokes. Should I inform everyone who's ever made a "Your Mom" joke that they're, in fact, bad people? Imagine judging people's moral character based off isolated bad jokes on social media.

Why should she apologize to a random fanboy commenting? She hasn't done them any harm. The entire situation is a mountain out of a molehill. If she had made some joke about Snyder's daughter, knowing the context of that tragedy, that would be an example of moral heinousness — but this, in ignorance? Naw, sorry.
Let's say hypothetically that you got into an argument with someone on another thread, and then I went into that thread and posted (without me being mentioned or it having anything to do with me) "I remember the thread when Disclaimer said he hates his mother.", do you not think there would be anything wrong with that?

It's not at all the same context as a "your mum" joke. It being about someone's mum is not the same at all. Your mum jokes are meant to come across as pathetic and not serious. Telling people that a person you constantly complain about in video essays hates his mother is another thing altogether.

Zac Snyder has never said or done anything to her. She posted that expecting praise and people to laugh at Snyder with her.

Tasteless is the least I would call that joke
 

lacer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,198
Yeah cus she's never mentioned Snyder's films. Not once.

Don't try to recontextialise this is to a "Gotcha" technicality counter-argument just because you like her videos.
'mentioning' snyders movies is a far cry from 'constantly complaining' about him as a person. it's not a "gotcha" to point out your post doesn't accurately reflect the content of her videos lol
 

Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
5,386
'mentioning' snyders movies is a far cry from 'constantly complaining' about him as a person. it's not a "gotcha" to point out your post doesn't accurately reflect the content of her videos lol
Ah you got me. Guess that technalitiy proves I was just a hater and what she posted about Snyder's mother was perfectly acceptable.
 

Gentlemen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,687
There are 104 videos on her YouTube channel dating back more than four years. The offending tweet was made in 2017. I can't find a single video from her about a Snyder Film.
So yeah, citation needed on this out of the woodwork narrative that she has 'constantly complains' about him or his films and her joke was just part of a pattern of behavior and that the 'your mum' joke wasn't just a one-time goof that she withdrew and doesn't owe anybody on this forum an apology for.
 

Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
5,386
There are 104 videos on her YouTube channel dating back more than four years. The offending tweet was made in 2017. I can't find a single video from her about a Snyder Film.
So yeah, citation needed on this out of the woodwork narrative that she has 'constantly complains' about him or his films and her joke was just part of a pattern of behavior and that the 'your mum' joke wasn't just a one-time goof that she withdrew and doesn't owe anybody on this forum an apology for.
I don't know anything abt Ellis.
 

Landford

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,165
Youtubers stopping their vid to disingenuously plug some shit without a hint of self-awareness is worth some mockery, though.
I mean, if it isnt a big deal for you, no problem.

But she was shilling the stuff. She wanted the money, mocked the company that was sponsoring her, mocked youtubers who do that, and when people called her out on it saying " You know, we get it, someone has to pay the bills", she doubled down on the "but I am above shilling."

From the previous comments on the thead, seems like a pattern.
 

SeeingeyeDug

Member
Oct 28, 2017
921
Ah you got me. Guess that technalitiy proves I was just a hater and what she posted about Snyder's mother was perfectly acceptable.
Can it be something in between? What she posted was unacceptable and she acknowledged it and there’s no reason to dwell on an acknowledged mistake. Why are the extreme position on one side or the other the only options?
 

Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
5,386
Can it be something in between? What she posted was unacceptable and she acknowledged it and there’s no reason to dwell on an acknowledged mistake. Why are the extreme position on one side or the other the only options?
Only the people who are defending her mentioned "cancel" if that's what you're asking.

I'm certainly allowed to think much, much less of her over this.
 
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NinjaGarden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,584
Why are the people on this site SOOOOOO FUCKING DRAMATIC?
got nothing else to do

let's start some shit

ETA: Looking forward to part 2. I've mentioned it in other threads but the Scott Pilgrim movie is a great example of an adaptation started before the source has completed that bends itself to the point of breaking to have the same ending.
 
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Oct 26, 2017
9,313
Let's say hypothetically that you got into an argument with someone on another thread, and then I went into that thread and posted (without me being mentioned or it having anything to do with me) "I remember the thread when Disclaimer said he hates his mother.", do you not think there would be anything wrong with that?

It's not at all the same context as a "your mum" joke. It being about someone's mum is not the same at all. Your mum jokes are meant to come across as pathetic and not serious. Telling people that a person you constantly complain about in video essays hates his mother is another thing altogether.

Zac Snyder has never said or done anything to her. She posted that expecting praise and people to laugh at Snyder with her.

Tasteless is the least I would call that joke
that's what made you hate Lindsy? jesus.
 

Donald Draper

Banned
Feb 2, 2019
934
Can it be something in between? What she posted was unacceptable and she acknowledged it and there’s no reason to dwell on an acknowledged mistake. Why are the extreme position on one side or the other the only options?
She acknowledged that her joke didn't work. That's it. She didn't apologize. Even if his mother was alive still I dont see how it's a good joke? I dont get it.

But she did start playing victim after she started getting called out.

But again it's all been deleted. The interactions went on longer then that single screencap.

People in her position shouldn't be using their platforms to stir up toxic nerd culture shit.
 
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Azzanadra

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,169
Canada
I have to say this was not the, uh, best from Lindsay.

But I think this is the general problem with video essays- they're basically first year College-level analysis of media, which is fine if you don't know much about the subject like with. For example, I might find Lindsay's various Disney-related videos more interesting and educational because I honestly don't know much about the production of these movies. But Since I actually know a lot of GoT, ASOIAF, its history and production, for me this video is a day late and a dollar short. Really just recycling the jokes and grievances I've been echoed since the season was airing.
 

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,312
She acknowledged that her joke didn't work. That's it. She didn't apologize.

But she did start playing victim after she started getting called out.

But again it's all been deleted. The interactions went on longer then that single screencap.
I wonder if “playing the victim” wasn’t “actually being harassed by Snyder’s rabid twitter fanboys.”

Again, why should she apologize to a fanboy demanding it? She acknowledged the joke didn’t work. It was an innocuous incident, not requiring a public prostration.
 

Donald Draper

Banned
Feb 2, 2019
934
I wonder if “playing the victim” wasn’t “actually being harassed by Snyder’s rabid twitter fanboys.”

Again, why should she apologize to a fanboy demanding it? She acknowledged the joke didn’t work. It was an innocuous incident, not requiring a public prostration.
If you make a joke about someone hating their dead mother you should own the consequences of your own words and all repercussions that come with it.


It was a situation of her own creation of her being nasty to another human for no reason on a public platform. Dont act like you are the victim of the situation. It literally only existed because of her saying something horrible.

And where is the demand for an apology? Again. Its a public platform. She should have apologized because it would be the decent human thing to do. Anybody " harassing" her would of dropped the issue.

Not a "oh my joke didn't work because his mother is dead" like the fuck kind of response is that anyway? She's basically saying the weirdly personal attack would be okay if the mom was alive.

This will be my last post on the subject regardless. I'm not here to "cancel" her. Just felt like more people should be aware of the type of person she is.
 

Androidsleeps

Member
Oct 27, 2017
552
I don't think I've ever been disappointed in a youtube video before. I don't watch many content creators, but Lindsay is very good- and it makes this episode extremely disappointing. It feels like this episode was made out of a sense of obligation, but like everyone has said it is a month late and says nothing new. Just like season 8 of GOT, this video has great production values and very little to say. It wouldn't be so bad if she was going to follow up with part 2 very quickly, but I don't get the sense that's going to happen. As such it makes me question what value there was to this episode that couldn't have been condensed down into a single video.
Pretty much agree with this, and I have said this before, Youtube videos "trashing" GOT final season became more of a magnet for clicks than GOT reaction videos, and so everyone and their dogs milked it even if they didn't really have anything insightful to say. I like Alt Shift X's video and expected a good video from Ellis but tbh the best analysis I've read of the final season is the article she sights in her video, almost everything else centers around "D&D are so dumb and stupid they're the worst", and this cringey FML KILL ME attitude. I very much agree with her on the Shae point (I remember this bothering me so much at the time it aired) and of course the "fanservice bowl".

That being said, I'm really over these GOT videos now and will just wait for when/if the next book comes out and watch how the book version unfolds.
 

Azzanadra

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,169
Canada
Pretty much agree with this, and I have said this before, Youtube videos "trashing" GOT final season became more of a magnet for clicks than GOT reaction videos, and so everyone and their dogs milked it even if they didn't really have anything insightful to say. I like Alt Shift X's video and expected a good video from Ellis but tbh the best analysis I've read of the final season is the article she sights in her video, almost everything else centers around "D&D are so dumb and stupid they're the worst", and this cringey FML KILL ME attitude. I very much agree with her on the Shae point (I remember this bothering me so much at the time it aired) and of course the "fanservice bowl".

That being said, I'm really over these GOT videos now and will just wait for when/if the next book comes out and watch how the book version unfolds.
I think Preston Jacobs provided the best and most mature take on it with his season recaps because he actually went through each character plotline and observed and analyzed what worked and what didn't. Despite his apparent dislike for the show, even he can find some merit in some of the ideas. He also left the memes at the door, as he already indulged the comedic aspects in his episode watch videos. Not to mention he's also making videos on what he would have done to "fix" season 8, so his criticism is at least constructive.
 

BuddyDharma

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,493
If you make a joke about someone hating their dead mother you should own the consequences of your own words and all repercussions that come with it.


It was a situation of her own creation of her being nasty to another human for no reason on a public platform. Dont act like you are the victim of the situation. It literally only existed because of her saying something horrible.

And where is the demand for an apology? Again. Its a public platform. She should have apologized because it would be the decent human thing to do. Anybody " harassing" her would of dropped the issue.

Not a "oh my joke didn't work because his mother is dead" like the fuck kind of response is that anyway? She's basically saying the weirdly personal attack would be okay if the mom was alive.

This will be my last post on the subject regardless. I'm not here to "cancel" her. Just felt like more people should be aware of the type of person she is.
I can't imagine caring this much about something so insignificant.
 

Royalan

Yeah I'm in my bag, but I'm in his too.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
3,101
I will agree that this wasn't one of Lindsey's strongest videos, for three reasons that immediately jump out to me:

1) It's late. And yeah, I give YouTuber's I respect time and don't expect them to jump on a trendy topic because I usually expect quality. But still, in this case, it was late. And there were SO many hot-takes as soon as the season ended, ranging from bad to actually-really-thoughtful, that nothing she said in this video was thoughtful or fresh about the final season. I might have enjoyed it more if this came out in the first two weeks of the finale. But it's just stale now. Which leads to my next problem...

2) Over-the-top production. I've always like Lindsey Ellis because her opinions are often fully fleshed out and supported. For me, it's never been about the production of the videos themselves. Some of my favorite Breadtubers are just the folks like Folding Ideas who will stand in front of a camera and/or give a voiceover while relevant clips of whatever they're talking about play on the screen. Not everybody can be ContraPoints. I noticed this in Lindsey's last video: there seems a much bigger reliance on meme-cuts and theatrics in Lindsey's newer videos. In a video over 40 minutes long it got pretty annoying and diluted what content was there, and probably contributed to how long it took to get this out.

3) The recap wasn't necessary and not really funny. If you're doing an analysis of the final season of GoT, you're talking to people who have at least a passable understanding of how things played out.

When Lindsey Ellis puts out a long-form video essay, it's usually worth it and you can see why the video had to be as long as it was. This...wasn't that.
 

truly101

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,190
Why are the people on this site SOOOOOO FUCKING DRAMATIC?
Righteous indignation is a hell of a drug.
Didn't mind the recap. She had made the point that the books and the first 4 seasons were largely about the characters caught up in these large events, whereas the following seasons seemed to focus more on the characters and their personal struggles. this is where they had to rely on more original content since the books were done. The recap just sheds more light on the change of focus
 

Darkgran

Member
Oct 27, 2017
318
Why are the people on this site SOOOOOO FUCKING DRAMATIC?

Because most people who posts here has NEVER made a mistake in their lives. They have NEVER mad a bad joke that came off wrong. They have NEVER said something that they later regret. Most people on this board are perfect.

Honestly the people that are posting in this thread and NOT posting about the video need to have their asses banned.

It honestly was not her best video but hopefully part 2 will dig in further. She is really good at what she does...
 

Royalan

Yeah I'm in my bag, but I'm in his too.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
3,101
Because most people who posts here has NEVER made a mistake in their lives. They have NEVER mad a bad joke that came off wrong. They have NEVER said something that they later regret. Most people on this board are perfect.

Honestly the people that are posting in this thread and NOT posting about the video need to have their asses banned.

It honestly was not her best video but hopefully part 2 will dig in further. She is really good at what she does...
Be the change you want to see?

I mean, there's no reason you have to comment on the nebulous "they." Just talk about the topic on the grounds that are interesting to you.
 

Spork4000

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,398
Are we cancelling Lindsay now? All she did was make a joke because Zach Snyder treats women poorly in his movies. Jeez, it’s not a big deal guys.
 

Darkgran

Member
Oct 27, 2017
318
Be the change you want to see?

I mean, there's no reason you have to comment on the nebulous "they." Just talk about the topic on the grounds that are interesting to you.

I'm pretty sure you can see the people who are derailing this thread. If they have an issue with Lindsey then they need to create a new thread to discuss it.
 

Royalan

Yeah I'm in my bag, but I'm in his too.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
3,101
I'm pretty sure you can see the people who are derailing this thread. If they have an issue with Lindsey then they need to create a new thread to discuss it.
This is absolutely true, and I'm going to guess (insist), that that conversation has run its course.
 

Irminsul

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,271
2) Over-the-top production. I've always like Lindsey Ellis because her opinions are often fully fleshed out and supported. For me, it's never been about the production of the videos themselves. Some of my favorite Breadtubers are just the folks like Folding Ideas who will stand in front of a camera and/or give a voiceover while relevant clips of whatever they're talking about play on the screen. Not everybody can be ContraPoints. I noticed this in Lindsey's last video: there seems a much bigger reliance on meme-cuts and theatrics in Lindsey's newer videos. In a video over 40 minutes long it got pretty annoying and diluted what content was there, and probably contributed to how long it took to get this out.
Yeah, I think for me it's mostly this plus Lindsay getting in the habit of stopping shortly before saying something actually interesting in some of her last few videos. In this video, for example, I had the feeling some over-produced, meme-filled segment would really get somewhere interesting and then it... didn't. It felt like a waste of my time. The last video that had this effect on my was the one on "death of the author", IIRC. At least I think it was the video with minutes in black-and-white and artificially reduced audio quality. I'm no native speaker, that shit was actually hard to understand in places and I was sitting there just thinking "why?" And then some of these segments never went anywhere or ended with a "But it is it really that way?" I get the need for nuance, but that was a bit much for my tastes.

Don't get me wrong, I loved Lindsay's series of Transformers videos, precisely because she was really good in explaining stuff to people with basically no knowledge in film theory. It actually made me look at films (or camera work) differently. Most of her Disney videos were great as well.

But the last few videos aren't quite up to snuff as far as I'm concerned. Those self-referential sponsor messages really don't help either.
 

Donald Draper

Banned
Feb 2, 2019
934
User banned (3 days): inflammatory point of comparison, thread derailment over multiple posts in the thread
I'm pretty sure you can see the people who are derailing this thread. If they have an issue with Lindsey then they need to create a new thread to discuss it.
That's not how this forum has ever worked.

If a thread about Michael Jackson gets made it's going to quickly derail into his past behaviour. Same with Gal Gadot and her IDF comments. No matter the topic. Those two among others, just an example.

People are free to bring up someone's past ugly behaviour, if you dont like it ignore it. I've dropped my opinion of her and followed up and explained my stance, which I am free to do.

Back seat modding however is against site rules.
 

SpitztheGreat

Member
May 16, 2019
493
The internet is simultaneously the most insensitive and sensitive thing ever.

Do we have any idea of when Part 2 will be coming out?