Lindsey Ellis:The Last of the Game of Thrones Hot Takes

Z-Beat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,075
I don't know if there's anything left to say, tbh. We know every how when and why for everything that went wrong.
 

Aurongel

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,674
Couldn't make it through her first video on Season 8, she spent most of the video doing that recent Youtuber thing where they give a lengthy and semi-entertaining recap of something mundane in order to artificially lengthen their videos and game the algorithm.

I need someone to confirm if this is more substantive or not before I commit a lunch break to this lol.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,893
Couldn't make it through her first video on Season 8, she spent most of the video doing that recent Youtuber thing where they give a lengthy and semi-entertaining recap of something mundane in order to artificially lengthen their videos and game the algorithm.

I need someone to confirm if this is more substantive or not before I commit a lunch break to this lol.
This video is actually discussing the content of the season, not just recapping the entire show up to this point. That's why it's so long.
 
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TheGamingNewsGuy
Nov 5, 2017
10,154
Couldn't make it through her first video on Season 8, she spent most of the video doing that recent Youtuber thing where they give a lengthy and semi-entertaining recap of something mundane in order to artificially lengthen their videos and game the algorithm.

I need someone to confirm if this is more substantive or not before I commit a lunch break to this lol.
Been watching it, it's a lot more substantive
 

Nappuccino

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,153
Couldn't make it through her first video on Season 8, she spent most of the video doing that recent Youtuber thing where they give a lengthy and semi-entertaining recap of something mundane in order to artificially lengthen their videos and game the algorithm.

I need someone to confirm if this is more substantive or not before I commit a lunch break to this lol.
While I agree that her first video wasn't particularly insightful, it was more of a primer for this video. Anyone who dropped off the show should have everything they need to know going forward. I think. I'm hoping to watch this video soon.
 

BDS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,261
This teardown of Sansa at the start is good, I'm sick of hearing how D&D apparently did right by their female characters with Sansa as a shield.
 

Seesaw15

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,599
I've reached peak GoT's saturation at this point. For the folks that have watched the video tell me if Lindsey is adding anything new to the discourse or just the same talking points from her pov?
 

Finaj

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,910
Man that's a long video, even for her.

Anyone know if she brings up the question "why didn't HBO just replace D&D as showrunners?"
 

BDS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,261
Man that's a long video, even for her.

Anyone know if she brings up the question "why didn't HBO just replace D&D as showrunners?"
The answer is here:

Back when D&D wanted to jump ship, circa 2014-2015, the show was still very well-received. If it was announced that HBO had forced D&D out and replaced them with someone else because they didn't want to "drag out" the show past eight seasons (obviously we know now they needed more than eight, but at the time people wouldn't know that) the optics for HBO would have been terrible. It would have looked like a moneygrubbing corporation dragging the show out past the creators' intended ending.
 

BDS

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,261
The video goes into some good discussion on the "absolute power corrupts absolutely" adage and how this isn't really accurate in real life.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,893
The hell? Who is saying that? The main female characters in D&D GoT are fuckin terrible. But I mean, so are the male ones.
There's definitely at least a small contingent of the fandom who are happy that they let Sansa be queen of the North as some kind of "repayment" for all the trauma D&D put her through.
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,237
I am so tired of GoT discussion, but...she is fantastic, and if there is any single person left out there that I would listen to break down the show? It is Lindsay Ellis.

I trust her to give a thorough, fair view on Game of Thrones. Take out all the hyperbolic crap that most discussions are filled with.
 
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Helio

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,259
The video goes into some good discussion on the "absolute power corrupts absolutely" adage and how this isn't really accurate in real life.
It was a good point to bring up and shows why Dany suddenly turning into a tyrant was out of left field. She had power and we saw what she did with that power. She was ruthless but she wasn’t a tyrant
 

emag

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,905
Late but great.

And another reason I'm glad I don't watch other YouTubers.
 

storaføtter

Member
Oct 26, 2017
508
I disagree with her Sansa and Jamie assessment. I would argue that Sansa was so blatant in her dislike for Daenaries because she was at home and felt confident in the power she had. In previous seasons she was trapped with the enemy and had to be careful. Jamie on the other hand was never much of a considerate person.. He killed the mad king also because he ordered him to murder his dad. He has had redemption but it is more due to the people he spent time with. Jamie always put himself and his sister first.

Season 8 is still shit and ruined almost all characters and tried to forget all character development, but this Linsey series is reaching it with some of the arguments.
 

anamika

Member
May 18, 2018
577
Sansa stans, the six people on Earth who enjoyed the final season.
I guess you are not familiar with the rabid Sansa stan fandom on twitter and tumblr? She's pretty much the most popular female character on the show in terms of fanbases.

I would argue that Sansa was so blatant in her dislike for Daenaries because she was at home and felt confident in the power she had
But Sansa still needed Dany's help to defeat the dead, right? Her open antagonism towards Dany made absolutely no sense - it made her out to be a spoiled, stupid brat as opposed to the 'smartest person I have ever known!'.
 

nelsonroyale

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,426
great analysis and pretty on point. funny how nothing is no section is principally devoted to Bran, but makes sense considering how poorly reasoned and thought out his character role and evolution turns out to be.

the thematic analsys she gets into around Danny and the cardboard comparisons to Nazism seems pretty atrocious on the writer's part.
 
I disagree with her Sansa and Jamie assessment. I would argue that Sansa was so blatant in her dislike for Daenaries because she was at home and felt confident in the power she had.
But that’s nonsense. If Daenerys was the tyrant that Sansa apparently fears she is, she outnumbers the Stark army in the North by several orders of magnitude. Being openly hostile serves no purpose.
 

storaføtter

Member
Oct 26, 2017
508
I guess you are not familiar with the rabid Sansa stan fandom on twitter and tumblr? She's pretty much the most popular female character on the show in terms of fanbases.

But Sansa still needed Dany's help to defeat the dead, right? Her open antagonism towards Dany made absolutely no sense - it made her out to be a spoiled, stupid brat as opposed to the 'smartest person I have ever known!'.
Yeah it could have been toned down as to how much extent she went to show her dislike. My point was that it is possible for her to still show her dislike Daeneries regardless of her being "smart" and get too confident as she was getting more power.

Yeah that line is pretty stupid, but so is most of the dialogue in these last seasons.
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,237
I guess you are not familiar with the rabid Sansa stan fandom on twitter and tumblr? She's pretty much the most popular female character on the show in terms of fanbases.



But Sansa still needed Dany's help to defeat the dead, right? Her open antagonism towards Dany made absolutely no sense - it made her out to be a spoiled, stupid brat as opposed to the 'smartest person I have ever known!'.
That line about Sansa being the smartest person might be my least favorite line in all of season 8.
 

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,577
But that’s nonsense. If Daenerys was the tyrant that Sansa apparently fears she is, she outnumbers the Stark army in the North by several orders of magnitude. Being openly hostile serves no purpose.
But on the show they keep saying that she and her ex husband are the cleverest people on the planet, so I guess you're just wrong. Sorry
 

Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,070
Man that's a long video, even for her.

Anyone know if she brings up the question "why didn't HBO just replace D&D as showrunners?"
D&D have the rights to the books AFAIK, not HBO. Any divorce would have been really messy. Everyone but D&D wanted it to continue. They wanted to get to their mega producer money deal (now with Netflix) faster.
 

Burt

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,502
I'm glad it seems to be better than part 1, which felt like some rando doing a got video in her style
I really feel like the first part was something that she had to do because of the zeitgeist around the finale, and not something that she wanted to do or was even really prepared for, in terms of having the time to discover the point that she wanted to articulate.

A big YouTuber skipping out on the Thrones finale is like a toymaker missing the deadline to get their toys out for the holidays. Regardless of the (very large) financial/promotional incentive she might've had, I'd wager her audience was pushing for it as much as anything and she felt obligated to get something out to sate the thirst.
 

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,577
I really feel like the first part was something that she had to do because of the zeitgeist around the finale, and not something that she wanted to do or was even really prepared for, in terms of having the time to discover the point that she wanted to articulate.

A big YouTuber skipping out on the Thrones finale is like a toymaker missing the deadline to get their toys out for the holidays. Regardless of the (very large) financial/promotional incentive she might've had, I'd wager her audience was pushing for it as much as anything and she felt obligated to get something out to sate the thirst.
I felt like I could tell she didn't really want to be doing the part 1 video throughout. She came so late to it anyway, she might as well have just waited until she knew what she wanted to make. Of course there's always the zeitgeist/financial factor which... fair enough.
I'll take two hour-long videos where one is easily skippable than one three-hour video.
I agree with that
 

dreams

Member
Oct 25, 2017
837
Couldn't make it through her first video on Season 8, she spent most of the video doing that recent Youtuber thing where they give a lengthy and semi-entertaining recap of something mundane in order to artificially lengthen their videos and game the algorithm.

I need someone to confirm if this is more substantive or not before I commit a lunch break to this lol.
Maybe you've already watched it and I am too late, so for that I'm sorry. Because this definitely is not worth the watch (especially sacrificing a lunch break over). Extremely tedious and bad. Also the "lol alcoholism" throughout is pretty gross tbh.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,810
D&D have the rights to the books AFAIK, not HBO. Any divorce would have been really messy. Everyone but D&D wanted it to continue. They wanted to get to their mega producer money deal (now with Netflix) faster.
HBO owns the tv rights, not D&D. If they didn't they wouldn't be able to make these spin-offs (it's also, you know, online). D&D's Netflix deal didn't even happen until years after HBO announced the end date for the show. Why this easily fact-checked, completely made-up stuff keeps getting peddled around here, I don't know.

The reason HBO didn't push out D&D and hire a new team of showrunners to keep it going even longer is because HBO, more often than not, actually respects the wishes of their showrunners and defers to them. A big part of HBO's brand in the industry is the creative freedom it provides showrunners, and building dependable relationships with those writers and producers. I'm sure HBO would've loved keeping The Sopranos on the air for another decade, but David Chase wanted to stop, so they did. David Simon's shows do fuck all in ratings and awards for HBO, but they have a good relationship, which is why there are five years of The Wire, four years of Treme, three years of The Deuce, etc. The second season of True Detective was an embarrassment for everyone involved, and yet HBO committed to keeping on Pizzolato with a multi-year deal and re-upped for a third season. HBO is usually not in the business of dumping and replacing showrunners.

edit: also, what BDS said. lol
 
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dragonbane

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,452
Germany
Yeah this was a good watch. The X-Men comparison was brutally accurate. The whole Dany segment really was perfectly on point. As was her remark that the journey really got ruined by the ending
 

Eylos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,486
Great video, she makes good points i didnt noticed, i also feel the same way as her about game of thrones, the ending/pay off killed my Joy of watching older seasons.
 

Spyder_Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,011
I don't think not having enough seasons is really the problem. 8 seasons is already more than enough for any TV show let alone a high budget one like Game of Thrones. I think the problem is D&D basically phoned it in because they wanted to move on. And considering there's supposed to be about 7 books and reasonably the same amount of seasons not committing for the long run doesn't make them look any better. Like what if they botch the ending for their Star Wars trilogy, or their Netflix shit. If they weren't willing to commit to the highest profile TV show ever what makes any viewer or executive think they'll commit for anything else.