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Lionel Messi wins Ballon d'Or 2019

Geoff

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,041
I would argue neutralising is easier than creating. It's a lot easier for a coach to set up a side to defend than win games.
Sure. And attacking is rightly valued more than defending because sport is entertainment. But also, you could be the best defender in history and it would be hard to show that conclusively because you can't measure goal chances that don't happen and a great defender can break down attacks just by standing in the right place. So I think, when you do get someone who really stands out, they maybe deserve a bit more of the benefit of the doubt than attackers, who can more easily be measured with goal and assist stats. Which isn't to say that I am outright saying VVD played better than Messi did relative to their positions.
 

gutter_trash

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,124
Montreal
Messi is nothing without a healthy midfield

LOL, look at him in Argentina, different player entirely

His international record is a joke. Ballon d'Or is 100% PR fluff
 

Escaflow

Member
Oct 29, 2017
943
Off the top of my head

Spurs finished second and came close (but capitulated around March iirc) during Chelsea/Conte title win.
Arsenal finished second and came close during the Leicester title winning campaign

It's less about "who could win the league" and more about quality of players/coaches/money.
Capitulated in March wasn't a very good challenge. And Arsenal was 10 points away from Leicester during the Leicester title winning season its not really a legit challenge either. Last season was the only proper one with MC and Liv so close.
 

Zasa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,626
Barcelona and Real Madrid won the CL 5 years in a row between them, with Atletico reaching two finals and going through a stretch of relative dominance where Real Madrid was the only club to ever knock them out

was the CL a cat and mouse competition for a bit there, with La Liga being the cat and everybody else the mice?

overlapping with the above was Sevilla’s domination of the Europa League, but dunno I’d call that a cat and mouse competition, either

it’s genuinely strange how some PL fans feel the need to downplay the recent era of Spanish dominance and thus end up with totally distorted views of La Liga’s overall quality
That’s not even taking into account the amount of Spanish semi-finalists in both CL & EL. They’ve been completely dominant in the last decade & it’s not even close.

I guess PL teams finally performing well in Europe for a year or two after years of injecting massive amounts of money into their teams has people giddy.
 
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Heshinsi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,494
Messi winning this year is not a problem to me. Considering how close the final points were between him and VVD, it was really a coin flip between them, and that’s fine. Nothing anyone says would ever convince me that Modric was deserving of the award last year though. Now that was some fuckery.


So one could argue the top 6 sides has more depth in England. Once you go lower its really not that much stronger than Spain.
Have you seen what the top 6 looks like this season? Man United and Arsenal are currently 8th and 7th respectively, with a 22-21 point separation between those two and the league leaders. You know how far down the La Liga table you have to go, to get to a similar point spread between the first place team and any other team? 19th ranked Espanyol. 7th and 8th places teams are only 7 and 8 points back from the leaders. The gap (8 points) between Liverpool (1st) and Man City (2nd), is the same as the gap between Barcelona (1st) and Valencia (8th). The last two seasons as well as this current one, the PL has become the Man City and Liverpool show.
 
Last edited:
Oct 26, 2017
4,929
Would have given it to Virgil van Dijk. The Liverpool team clearly changed when he came onto Anfield (take him away and they don’t make UCL finales twice, nor be in a position to win the Premier League). Meanwhile, Barcelona are consistent disappointments in the Champions League.

Also tothat guy who brought up EPL teams getting money. Are we gonna act like La Liga isn’t dominated with Barca and Real Madrid’s financial resources?
 

Geoff

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,041
Would have given it to Virgil van Dijk. The Liverpool team clearly changed when he came onto Anfield (take him away and they don’t make UCL finales twice, nor be in a position to win the Premier League). Meanwhile, Barcelona are consistent disappointments in the Champions League.

Also tothat guy who brought up EPL teams getting money. Are we gonna act like La Liga isn’t dominated with Barca and Real Madrid’s financial resources?
Throwing shade at the EPL for spending money seems incredible when the comparison is those two teams
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,929
Throwing shade at the EPL for spending money seems incredible when the comparison is those two teams
Frankly, the whole idea of throwing shade for money is idiotic. The best teams in Europe spend money. It has been this way for years in the modern era, and will continue to be that way

In fact, I can only think of Ajax and Dortmund, who don’t spend crazy amounts but are successful either due to finding transfer bargains, developing players, or both.
 

Anti

Member
Nov 22, 2017
2,133
Australia
M8, don't even try.

In this thread there are people claiming the award was undeserved, that creating and scoring goals its a lot easier than stopping and neutralizing attacks. Other are saying Messi didn't play good at all last year or that without a midfield he is nothing.

Are you fucking kidding me? "This guy is nothing because without a team behind him he doesn't win", it's a fucking Team sport. The only reason why Argentina even qualifies to the World Cup finals is because of Messi yet you are asking him to carry the team on his back all the way to 3 World Cup titles or he doesn't deserve the praise he gets.

WTF are you guys talking about, if you seriously know anything about football you can honestly say a player like Messi hasn't come across so often, he does everything in the offensive side, he won a Liga Tournament by himself once(when he scored 50 goals). He is constantly the player with more goals, more assists, more opportunities created, more dribbles, and more efficiency yet people say he is overrated. Not only that but he has done it constantly for over a decade.

Some of you are are morons.
 

Jssom

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
158
To those who only flaunt goals, assists and dribbles to our faces every time we talk who deserves the awards of being the best the past year, what about talking about the number goal attempts saves, aerial clearances, duels won and not getting dribbled pass by for more than a whole goddamn year?

People also seem to forget the embarrassing performance and behavior Messi showed in Copa America.

Van Dijk was robbed. Simple as that.

Throwing shade at the EPL for spending money seems incredible when the comparison is those two teams
You damn right. Aren't Barca the team with highest money spent on players and highest salary ceiling?
 

JuanLatino

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,336
Messi is nothing without a healthy midfield

LOL, look at him in Argentina, different player entirely

His international record is a joke. Ballon d'Or is 100% PR fluff
you clearly have no clue at all - maybe watch some barcelona games here and there before just copying standard anti messi phrases.

You can clearly see in this forum which people actually watch Messis Games or not (especially his national team performances). And if they actually do? i really doubt their understanding of this sport

so many standard memes and phrases, moving goalpoast, bringing one excuse after another and yet here we are in the year 2019 where you still have to discuss with people about the quality of a lionel messi (this is not about the Award actually but comments that disregard him in general here)

but you know what? at the end of the day you have hundreds of football stars calling Messi the Goat, Coaches, former Legends, Experts - People that played the Sport, experienced it and were the best themself

and yet some random people on the internet sitting behind their computer know better