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crimilde

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,004
Yeah, a bit more than late actually...

My very first Persona game was 4 Golden on Vita, I had barely bought the system and wanted some cool JRPGs to play, and this one caught my attention. It had really nice art and turn based combat so I went for it. I ended up falling in love with the series and wanting to play them all.
My next one was Persona 3, then I played 5, and then it was finally time for Persona 2 to shine.

And my non-native English vocabulary fails me when I try to express how much I loved this journey. It has become my favourite Persona game. Granted, I still have to play the first one, but I don't think anything can top Innocent Sin right now for me.

Story & Characters –

I really love that compared to newer Persona games it's much more focused, and while I like the social links system, I find the overall story in P2 to be much more mature and darker, which appeals to me more on a personal storytelling preference level. The characters are very likeable, well thought-out and I love to see how they progress throughout the story. Their interactions are one of the things that make this game great for me.

While the story is not necessarily groundbreaking per se, it is very coherent and well presented, and I very much appreciate the overall atmosphere.

Tatsuya is the least silent of silent protagonists in the series so far, and I very much enjoyed the fact that he's better established as a character both in regards to his personal history and relationships as well as his personality.


Gameplay –


Imagine how surprised I was when I discovered that I can negotiate with demons! Not only that, the system is in my opinion more complex and better implemented than what's in Persona 5. I love the "feelings square" and the fact that based on a demon's type and personality you need to figure out which person from your party is best suited to contact it, and what they should say depending on what you want to achieve.
I had a lot of fun trying out different contact options to see how I can get the demons to react.

It was very refreshing to use the Arcana cards as currency for summoning personas (and I think it's great that you can change any party member's persona, makes for better control over your strategies, if you also take fusion spells into account).
While you can't do persona fusions, they can mutate under certain conditions, and you can equip personas that are higher level than you!

I thoroughly enjoyed the Velvet Room system in this game, and as for combat, being able to define the turn order is a godsend. It was very fun discovering all the fusions spells that my party can do and while the combat itself wasn't very challenging, I still had fun because of these mechanisms.

Music –

I only have one thing to say – it is excellent. Top notch soundtrack, not unlike all other Persona games I have played. I love the upbeat 90s techno vibes that it has. I never got tired of the battle theme no matter how many random encounters I stumbled upon.



Overall –

Near perfect experience for me. The only slightly annoying thing was the high rate of random encounters, but since you don't actually need to fight every time, it ultimately wasn't a huge deal.

It baffles me how 20 years later, this is still one of the most progressive JRPGs that have been created. I think it's absolutely great that this game brings a same-sex relationship that is portrayed as normal and healthy (even though you can pick whom to express your feelings for, they're totally canon in my mind).

I couldn't be happier that I decided to give it a chance.


tumblr_o9ig328iFx1rc886jo5_r6_400.gif


"It's whoop-ass time!"

EDIT: of course I had to mess up something in the title... LTTP.
 
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Sgt. Demblant

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,030
France
Glad you liked it. Michel forever!
I played it after 3 but before I beat 4.

I hated the gameplay to be honest, but I powered through it. Thankfully the game (or is it just the psp remake?) is fairly easy. The story is pretty good overall but confusing at times and the changes in tone are rather strange and don't work as well as in future entries of the series imo. But I absolutely adored the cast. It's this game's greatest strength. The protagonist and Maya, Michel, Ginko, Joker, etc. I loved them all. And that ending got me good. I hope we'll see Maya and Tatsuya again, even if it's just in a dancing game or whatever.

Too bad the ps1 version of Eternal Punishment is so frustrating to play, because I'd love to experience the second half of the story at some point.
 

Golnei

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,823
tumblr_odqhi8t9fB1rj3m9io1_500.jpg


I've never really gotten into the Persona series as a whole, but the 2 duology are the closest the series has come to connecting with me, mostly for the same reasons you've stated. It really is a shame the games haven't been unified on one platform in English...
 

Taruranto

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,045
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I think EP is slightly worse (tbh I didn't enjoy it as much until the second time), but overall it still is one of the greatest duologies of all time. The amount of work that went into the characters' backstories and how everything fits together (There is foreshadowing for EP in IS's first dungeon) is simply impressive. The story is simply Atlus' magnum opus.
 

Booki

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,865
Brooklyn
There is absolutely nothing wrong with more Persona 1 & 2 love. P3 revived the series in the West, but the original games have a charm that the modern games are missing.

Maybe I'm over the S-Link system.
 

Pedetemptim

Self-requested ban.
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
239
I never understood the dislike for the negotiation system seen in a lot of threads about Persona 2. These games have the most predictable negotiations in the series. Demons with the same combination of personality traits will always respond in the same way to the option used to start a conversation. Follow-up questions are a little random, but not completely so: your replies to them can cause two different reactions out of possible seven (in addition to the four basic reactions, you can trigger eagerness and one of the other three simultaneously). On top of that, happiness and fear never provoke follow-up questions. If you bother to take notes as you play, you can negotiate with a consistency I've never been able to match in any other game in the series. I'd share my own notes, but alas, they perished when I moved to a new HDD.

EDIT: I should add that I haven't played Persona 5 yet. I don't know what demon negotiation is like in that game and whether it's more or less random than in Persona 2.
 

Komii

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,554
Glad you enjoyed the game! I believe it has the most solid story in the franchise(i haven't played 1 yet tho) and the best party. Seeing p5 cast I thought the characters would be as good as their P2 look alikes but they really fell short. Even though there are no social links in this game, i believe the party is way better developed than 3-5's, and have much more belieavable struggles than most of later persona party members... Seeing they grow as the story goes is also awesome. It also had the best joker.

I want to play it again some day but the encounter rate really puts me off... i wish there was a mod or something, like the speed fix people did for FFT, and it is a shame we never got the psp remake of EP, since IS's remake makes it look like almost like a modern game
 

Deleted member 2834

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Tried to play this last year on PSP and the loading times were atrocious. I actually quit the game 5h in because that version is outrageously bad. Will definitely play this on an emulator at some point.
 

Taruranto

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,045
I never understood the dislike for the negotiation system seen in a lot of threads about Persona 2.

Yeah, to be honest I always compare negotiations in IS to hitting the same weakness over and over in P3-5. Farming specific tarots is also useless, you just need to form contracts to get the free ones.
 
OP
OP
crimilde

crimilde

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,004
Mariip Exactly what was on my mind as I finished this game. I completely agree with you.
I also like how the protagonist isn't set up as some sort of Messiah figure since the beginning, and no emphasis is put on him being in any way more special than the other party members (like in the later games where the MC is the only one able to summon multiple personas and change them at will).
 

Deleted member 419

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Oct 25, 2017
3,009
Definitely want to try these at some point. Ideally they'll be most of the best things about Persona, while cutting some of the things the modern entries have that don't connect with me.

Bummer we never got the Eternal Punishment PSP version in the West.
 

Komii

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,554
Mariip Exactly what was on my mind as I finished this game. I completely agree with you.
I also like how the protagonist isn't set up as some sort of Messiah figure since the beginning, and no emphasis is put on him being in any way more special than the other party members (like in the later games where the MC is the only one able to summon multiple personas and change them at will).
Changing personas for the party was one of my favorite aspects of the game, as well as taking the whole party to the velvet room, dammit they are your friends, not your fusion bonus slaves :|

Tatsuya not being a transfer student and having an actual family was really good too, it shows that you can have a silent protagonist but he can still be a part of the plot(and not the messiah dude).
 

PK Gaming

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,331
I'm incredibly conflicted about this game. On the one hand, the narrative is solid. It's very silly (Nazi's, conspiracy theorists, evil idol shows, campy villains, etc), but instead of being random for the sake of random, it's deliberate theming that all builds towards a genuinely fantastic climax. The game's cast is great too, with the protagonist being an actual character who is backed up by an extremely strong set of party members. Eikichi and Lisa in particular are pretty much the foundation for the most common dynamic in the series (Yukari/Junpei, Chie/Yosuke, Ryuji/Ann.). It's a surprisingly progressive and thoughtful game. Not PERFECT mind you, but Jun's love for Tatsuya is never, ever treated like a joke, and he's put on the same level as Lisa (hell, LISA is the joke love interest). The transgender fortune teller was surprisingly well handled as well. I really love the setting, and there's this maturity and tact present in this game that's lacking in the latter Persona games.

On the other hand, the gameplay is just... bottom class. High encounter rates, extremely shallow gameplay, a tedious negotiation system and a complete lack of difficult completely kills this game for me on a gameplay front. I don't mind powering through tedious sections in games, but P2 was like that from beginning to end. There are some genuinely baffling game design issues here, and it culminates in one of the worst RPGs I've ever played. It's a shame too, because if the gameplay was stronger it would be an absolute classic.

You really need to play Eternal Punishment though. Outdated translation aside and similarly bad gameplay aside, it has the BEST narrative in a Persona game, hands down. Nothing will top EP's story for me as far as Persona goes, and the cast is top tier too.
 

chrominance

Sky Van Gogh
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,567
I never understood the dislike for the negotiation system seen in a lot of threads about Persona 2. These games have the most predictable negotiations in the series. Demons with the same combination of personality traits will always respond in the same way to the option used to start a conversation. Follow-up questions are a little random, but not completely so: your replies to them can cause two different reactions out of possible seven (in addition to the four basic reactions, you can trigger eagerness and one of the other three simultaneously). On top of that, happiness and fear never provoke follow-up questions. If you bother to take notes as you play, you can negotiate with a consistency I've never been able to match in any other game in the series. I'd share my own notes, but alas, they perished when I moved to a new HDD.

EDIT: I should add that I haven't played Persona 5 yet. I don't know what demon negotiation is like in that game and whether it's more or less random than in Persona 2.

I think that's all it is: most people don't. The elemental weaknesses in P3 and P4 are relatively easy to memorize compared to P1 and P2 (though P5 rolls back some of this with nuke/psi and gun). Demon negotiation on top of all this can be very difficult to juggle unless you take notes or use a guide. (I forget if P2 gave you any signals beforehand as to what personality a demon had; I feel like I remember reading this in the P1P manual but I'm not entirely sure.)

It kind of doesn't matter in Innocent Sin because eventually you're just trying to minmax for specific tarot cards, and so you know which demons to negotiate with and what responses to use. But I can see why people would bounce off the system early.
 

Deleted member 2793

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It's a really good game. Fantastic cast, story is really exciting and unique (the rumor thing is great) and I don't have any problems with the gameplay - including the negotiations.

Only bad thing about it is that Eternal Punishment is such a masterpiece I sometimes forget about praising Innocent Sin. But the Persona 2 games are probably my favorite RPGs of all time.
 

Pedetemptim

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Oct 26, 2017
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Demon negotiation on top of all this can be very difficult to juggle unless you take notes or use a guide.
That's true. In many SMT games, it feels like most negotiation options have at least some chance of producing a positive result, so if you keep picking the options you like, you're going to succeed eventually. In P2, if you keep dancing flamenco for demons who just aren't into this sort of thing, you'll only anger them again and again. I can see why the other approach can be preferable to someone who doesn't find negotiation to be a fun system in its own right and perceives it only as a means to an end.

EDIT: I should probably add that I draw my own fusion tables and compile my own demon databases as I play. While it takes plenty of time, it also makes me feel like a mad scientist, and it's a huge part of the series' appeal to me. Having to do a little extra bookkeeping for negotiations in P2 doesn't intimidate me because of this.
 

Deleted member 2102

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Tried to play this last year on PSP and the loading times were atrocious. I actually quit the game 5h in because that version is outrageously bad. Will definitely play this on an emulator at some point.
I really think that the PS1 version plays better in general. The menu lag in the PSP version really kills it for me, especially with how many more menus you have to dig through to configure individual party actions. P2's gameplay is built around autobattle, but the PSP remake of IS almost seemed to emphasize individual actions through how its menus are structured.

I finished playing the duology recently and loved it, though IS has stuck with me more. Part of that is almost certainly some nostalgia surrounding it, but I had more fun with its story and appreciated the more frequent breaks in dungeons to speak with the party. EP's gameplay is undeniably better, though. I also really love how it seems to play off of IS's difficulty curve, making it feel like one continuous game both in terms of story and combat.

e: also, give us more gay characters you cowards
 

Deleted member 721

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I stopped in a factory or a playcenter i think.

I got Lost and stopped playing, the story is very good, but the exploration and battlesystem are kinda bad and slow.
 

chrominance

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Oct 25, 2017
13,567
As someone who hasn't yet played Eternal Punishment (and last played Innocent Sin PSP years ago), how difficult will it be to dive into the PS1 version? I keep thinking that I'd rather wait for the fan translation that I think is till being worked on for EP PSP, partially because of the battle speed options (oh god I need that 4x speed-up). Also because of the clunky original translation that changed a whole ton of proper nouns and references.
 

Taruranto

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,045
I don't think notes are really needed for P2's negotiation system. Yeah, they do help, but it's generally easy to tell which demons like Lisa and which like Maya based on their personalities.

As someone who hasn't yet played Eternal Punishment (and last played Innocent Sin PSP years ago), how difficult will it be to dive into the PS1 version? I keep thinking that I'd rather wait for the fan translation that I think is till being worked on for EP PSP, partially because of the battle speed options (oh god I need that 4x speed-up). Also because of the clunky original translation that changed a whole ton of proper nouns and references.

I don't think the original EP is bad at all, the translation is a bit clunky and the VA is kinda awful, but apart from these, it's a fine game. Unlike PS1 IS you can also turn off animations.
 

Deleted member 2102

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As someone who hasn't yet played Eternal Punishment (and last played Innocent Sin PSP years ago), how difficult will it be to dive into the PS1 version? I keep thinking that I'd rather wait for the fan translation that I think is till being worked on for EP PSP, partially because of the battle speed options (oh god I need that 4x speed-up). Also because of the clunky original translation that changed a whole ton of proper nouns and references.
PS1 EP is still faster than PSP IS. You can skip animations, menus are pithier (and faster to navigate), and the load times are shorter. I was actually pretty impressed with the translation. Aside from using names from Revelations: Persona and some presentation-related editing issues (ellipses up the ass and similar "stylistic" dialog decisions of the era), it's solid for the most part.
 

Deleted member 11008

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Oct 27, 2017
6,627
Persona 2 (both IS and EP) are very special to me, so I feel good when more people discover them :)

By the way, I have something about IS that is bothering me a long time ago.

The early dialogues in the school are to bait you to think our Tatsuya is the pyromaniac, right? Because it really blow my mind when King Leo's true identity was shown.
 

Komii

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,554
Persona 2 (both IS and EP) are very special to me, so I feel good when more people discover them :)

By the way, I have something about IS that is bothering me a long time ago.

The early dialogues in the school are to bait you to think our Tatsuya is the pyromaniac, right? Because it really blow my mind when King Leo's true identity was shown.
Well he DOES have a lighter and no cigarretes...
 

StraySheep

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,276
I didn't make it far when I played it. Random encounters plus not grasping demon negotiation was a turn off. Will revisit one day though.
 

Akselziys

Aksys Games
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
123
Los Angeles
Persona 1 Be Your True Mind, Persona 2 Innocent Sin, and Persona 2 Eternal Punishment is one of my favorite duologies (trilogies?) ever :)

Really amazing games, story, characters, music, art, etc.

Philemon, Nyarlathotep, and the Velvet room crew, plus all persona users being able to enter the Velvet room and not just making the hero "special".


Persona 3, 4, and 5 just never really felt the same and kinda thought it may have been better if they were their own spinoff series haha

But the cast of P1 and P2 are just amazing overall~

And gotta love the pharmacy and convenience store music ;)
 

'3y Kingdom

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,494
The gameplay in this game is atrocious. Battles are slow and needlessly complex. A pity, since the narrative seems interesting.
 

chrominance

Sky Van Gogh
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Oct 25, 2017
13,567
PS1 EP is still faster than PSP IS. You can skip animations, menus are pithier (and faster to navigate), and the load times are shorter. I was actually pretty impressed with the translation. Aside from using names from Revelations: Persona and some presentation-related editing issues (ellipses up the ass and similar "stylistic" dialog decisions of the era), it's solid for the most part.

WHAT.

You can SKIP ANIMATIONS in PS1 EP? Why on earth did they remove this from PSP Innocent Sin, given that even P1P had this option?
 

Komii

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,554
It's heavily implied Lisa really doesn't care about Tatsuya, she just sees him as a trophy boyfriend. So #teammaya. Jun is fine too.
I don't really get team Maya,
jun and tatsuya even have matching personas based on the lighter and watch they traded... In front of a wedding dress shop
but i don't wanna make a shipping war thread about such an old game so i'll stop here lol

About lisa
she did have a crush on Tatsuya when she was a child, her teenage self that saw him as a tool, but she didn't know he was THAT Tatsuya
 

Wazzy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,070
I love P2 IS and EP. The characters and soundtrack are one of my favourites in the series. EP is rough to play now but everything else about it is great. IS is accessible and fun since it's more recent being on PSP.

I'm so mixed about the character relations in the game but I do love that they have an option to romance two men. I like that option and then don't know how I feel about Maya since I believe she is older. She is my favourite character but romance wise I'm not sure.
 

Taruranto

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,045
I don't really get team Maya,

Well, EP (Endgame spoilers)
definitely leans toward Maya, I do agree that Jun is definitely more "canon" in IS, especially given the symbolism. At the end of the day, none of the pairings are canon, and ironically Maya/Tatsuya is the only pairing that can't come true because of EP's ending. And well, most players are straight, so they are going to pick the hot lady over the gay boy.
 

Komii

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,554
Well, EP (Endgame spoilers)
definitely leans toward Maya, I do agree that Jun is definitely more "canon" in IS, especially given the symbolism. At the end of the day, none of the pairings are canon, and ironically Maya/Tatsuya is the only pairing that can't come true because of EP's ending. And well, most players are straight, so they are going to pick the hot lady over the gay boy.
Yeah i know about EP, but that never made much sense to me... felt like a cheap retcon since you had 3 options last game, then suddenly the least probable became "canon". The first game pointed almost every sign at Jun aside from a blush for maya in one scene and a stolen kiss from Lisa :/
aaaaand I kinda ship Maya x Katsuya... He is too cute
 

cj_iwakura

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,195
Coral Springs, FL
I love P2 IS and EP. The characters and soundtrack are one of my favourites in the series. EP is rough to play now but everything else about it is great. IS is accessible and fun since it's more recent being on PSP.

I'm so mixed about the character relations in the game but I do love that they have an option to romance two men. I like that option and then don't know how I feel about Maya since I believe she is older. She is my favourite character but romance wise I'm not sure.
She's at least five years older, lol.
 

Deleted member 2834

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Oct 25, 2017
7,620
I can vouch for Persona 1 PSP though. Finished it last year and had a great time. Too bad Innocent Sin on PSP is so poor.