You can clearly see him get back up. They made the absolute right call in that situation.
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London Bridge terror incident: suspect shot dead by police after five injured [update: two members of public dead]
- Thread starter Ocarina_117
- Start date
I'm not making a judgement on their call - it's just a striking scene, given the distance.
And that is how we will find out, not by anyone going "Hey, but what about America?" or "This reminds me of America".
The biggest concern is always a vest
In today's world, not everything is a gun or knife, fear of explosions is a real issue given it takes next to no time to detonate something. If that looks like a legitimate threat you have a split second to make a decision before further potential harm.
More often than not "It could be a fake vest" just won't enter the equation if a threat of a vest is said or visually it is apparent there is some sort of vest being worn and the suspect continues to move or put their arms towards said vest.
Those people who were holding down the attacker are heros, I hope I'd have done the same.
Possible Police statement in 5mins.
Possible Police statement in 5mins.
That is wild. I assume if armed police tell you to stay down and you get up you get shot? Still wild though.
Haven't seen the video but it's not surprising if you remember how the flying squad shot Demenezes years back. Their doctrine is shoot first think later when it comes to "terror incidents", even if it means unloading whole rounds of ammunition at an innocent Brazilian.
Dangerous times we live in. Hope the victims can pull through.
My gut reaction is that nothing of value was lost by shooting the perpetrator.
My gut reaction is that nothing of value was lost by shooting the perpetrator.
From watching the video, looks like he went to get up after the bystander was dragged off in a hurry - hence the police firing.
You have a civilian wrestling with a madman who is on a murderous rampage, and people are questioning whether the police should have shot the person as they attempt to save the person who risked their life to stop them from potentially knifing even more innocents.
The fuck?
The fuck?
In this country, there is oversight every time a police firearm was discharged.
For context for those outside the UK and curious as to the incidents where armed police are called out (data source: HERE - Police use of firearms statistics, April 2018 to March 2019 for England and Wales):
20,186 incidents that involved Police Firearms teams
13 incidents where a police firearm was discharged.
I sincerly hope there isnt anyone here who thinks our armed police shoot just for the hell of it.
The police appear to have shot him after they managed to get the people sitting on him away from him. The eye-witness on BBC is saying the man appeared to have a vest and made the police aware of that.
Gunshots have seemed to come in response to that.
From the information that we have at the moment, police reacted to the perp getting up and possible further lethal danger coming from him. If this all turns out true, it's a justified response.
Whenever someone is killed by the police, it is always good to question whether it was the correct response. We shouldn't ever fall into a state where because someone "looked like a terrorist" we just brush over the fact that they were killed.
That said, we should wait until more information is available before throwing any stones. Although we have a video, we don't really know what happened before, after, or what was actually going on at the point of the "brawl".
Police confirmed there was a device strapped to him but it is being ruled a hoax device.
Met police have said he had a device strapped to him, which they now think was a hoax/fake device...but for me that would explain the shooting.
When Jean Charles de Menezes was shot and killed by UK Police, it initially looked as if they had stopped another suicide bombing. Turned out to be something else entirely, and an innocent man was killed. Waiting for factual details to emerge before is healthy.
But as I wrote that the Police said he had a hoax explosive device on. Which certainly provides justification for what happened.
In Canada, or in Ontario at least, a police officer has to file a lengthy report every time they unholster their gun. Anytime there's a severe injury or fatality during a police intervention an independent civilian investigative body is called in to take over.
Sometimes police need to neutralize a threat, and only have a split-second to make a decision, but it always needs to be taken very, very seriously.
My best friend is a police officer and is trained in firearms and some of the takes in this couldn't be more wrong.
We have had quite a few conversations about it and he is always telling me that it's it's completely drilled into them in training that firearms is a complete last resort and anytime a firearm is discharged there will be an investigation on if the shot was needed.
UK armed police are a completely different kettle of fish to the US police.
We have had quite a few conversations about it and he is always telling me that it's it's completely drilled into them in training that firearms is a complete last resort and anytime a firearm is discharged there will be an investigation on if the shot was needed.
UK armed police are a completely different kettle of fish to the US police.
holy shit, never heard of this jean charles story... this is fucked up
If that is a civilian (which it sure looks like) then absolutely, that guy is a total hero.
- The suspect knife attacker died at the scene after being shot by armed officers.
- The attack is being treated as a terrorist incident. Counter terrorism command is leading the investigation, but the police retain an open mind on any motive.
- A number of people were injured after reports of a stabbing near London Bridge. Their condition has not been disclosed.
- The attack was wearing what police now believe was a fake suicide vest.
- Police have appealed for information, video and photographs of the incident.
- Police patrols will be stepped up across London and the rest of the UK.
Urgh, London Bridge and the surrounding area is my favourite parts of London, I can't believe it's the scene of yet another incident.
I hope the people who were injured recover quickly.
I'm wondering, what are bus drivers advised to do if they're driving their bus and it all kicks off like it did, drive away safely I assume?
I hope the people who were injured recover quickly.
I'm wondering, what are bus drivers advised to do if they're driving their bus and it all kicks off like it did, drive away safely I assume?
They shot him dead.
Good.
reading the article and knowing where some of the public hid made this feel quite vivid to me.
Good.
reading the article and knowing where some of the public hid made this feel quite vivid to me.
the belt is designed to create fear and put off would be heroes.
this isn'ta suicide attempt. This is terrorism
I meant more from the 'what did he think would happen' - I should have said it was suicidal to wear a hoax belt. I'm guessing the Police would not have shot him dead had he not had that on but I could be wrong.
When I worked in London a few years ago our local pub was the local to CO19/SO19 - we would often talk about their role and what was involved - that echoed to what you posted - these guys are professionals through and through. Really solid people.
The shot was brutal but reality is none of those cops wanna get blown up and the guy who just stabbed a bunch of people and is wearing what appears to be (and supposedly he claimed to be) an explosive vest and is like barely ten feet from them was getting up. If he stayed down with his hands on his head when they shot him it'd be a different story.
Fuck this cunt and fuck everything he stands for. The members of the public wrestling with this guy are heroes, no question. Guy in a suit in one of the videos is seen walking away with the knife and then the other guy sitting on top of him before he gets capped in the head by the police. I'm sad he's been killed so quickly to be honest but it had to be done, it looked like he had a vest on. He should rot somewhere painful for the rest of his days.
I've seen US police fire more bullets because a dog was running towards them.
If a UK police officer fires then there is good reason, it's precise and quick.
Remember very few UK police are armed.
Not excusing the police action at all but consider the time this incident happened.
In fairness larger breeds like say a pitbull are quite capable of knocking down an adult and sending them to a surgeon or a morgue
He did look like he had an explosive belt on. They're not going to take any chances and I can understand that. London Bridge has an awful lot of traffic so if the bomb was real and went off hundreds of people would've died.
You're missing a lot of context here.
London Bridge was the location of a terrorist attack in summer 2017 by people wearing fake suicide vests, equipped with knives. The armed response units would have this in mind, and it turned out to be relevant. This is also why they evacuated nearby Borough Market as that is where the attackers fled last time. There is no real comparison to be made between a US regular police response in various cities to UK specialist armed police acting in a counter-terrorism role, in a situation seemingly inspired by a previous one, and knowing exactly what to look for here.
What a fucking looser.
Wonder if this one will have turned out to have been living in Dublin like some of them last time.
Wonder if this one will have turned out to have been living in Dublin like some of them last time.
I'm still miffed why the fake suicide vest? It was almost like he wanted to get shot by police? Like "hey look at me I'm a terrorist!"
Gald the cops stopped him before there were further casualties.
Gald the cops stopped him before there were further casualties.