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astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,887
Glad to know that getting entertained by one man is more important to you than women being safe.

It's really gross, especially as there are LOADS of other talented writers out there to support too. A lot of women that have less opportunity, too.

But no, keep supporting the guy who hasn't shown via any actual action that he understands what he did was awful and hurt not only his victims but everyone affected by sexual abuse and assault who has been silenced like his victims were.

Far too many people ITT and everywhere downplaying the actual damage and scope of his abuse, and precisely why and how it's so harmful to allow people like him to return to the spotlight so easily.
 

shenden

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,296
All of these accused people without standing in trial are going to just try and ride out the storm. I highly doubt these people are remorseful in any kind of way.

I' ll bet Kevin Spacey doing a "comeback" sometime during next year.
 

oops my bad lol

Alt-Account
Banned
Jul 26, 2018
121
Yeah, waiting for it to blow over isn't a good look.

The best you can do is apologize for wrong doing and let time heal the wounds.

A nice gesture wouldn't hurt either.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,887
All of these accused people without standing in trial are going to just try and ride out the storm. I highly doubt these people are remorseful in any kind of way.

I' ll bet Kevin Spacey doing a "comeback" sometime during next year.

The rich and powerful (mostly white) men in this world will almost never have to be held accountable for their actions when it comes to cases of sexual abuse.

And people will rush to their defence because to them a person's talent at something is more important than the harm they've caused to others.

Sickening world we live in.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,382
Jesus Christ you guys need to take a look at yourselves sometimes. That guy above genuinely asked if it was actually sexual assault while telling you what he did was actively fucked up, wrong, he's a cunt etc, and all you have is fucking prerecorded sound bites. Gas Lighting! Concern trolling! Straw man! Apologist! The slightest deviation from your own opinions, even if they're factually fucking correct, and you've got the pitchforks out. Fucking listen to him! He agrees with EVERYTHING you've been saying but because he asked for clarification on one fucking point you're losing your damn minds! I honestly didn't even know that was the correct definition (I even used the incorrect one earlier in this thread), and now I won't be using that to describe this any more. That seems like an important thing to know!

Louis C.K.'s style of comedy requires a level of performative authenticity that acknowledges his virtues and failings as part of his material as a way of establishing a rapport with the audience. Unannounced bits at comedy clubs are one thing, nobody is buying those tickets for Louis, but he's never going to get past this professionally if he can't work what he's done into the autobiographical narrative of his material. It would shatter the illusion he's spent years crafting.

By all accounts (as in, from other comedians who know him personally) he's one of the hardest working people in comedy and incredibly talented on top of that, I'd honestly be surprised if he wasn't able to steer his material in a new direction. Not saying he is, or will, or should, I honestly don't have any investment in it, just that it sounds like he's more than capable. I dunno I just think it'd be kind of gross to incorporate it into his set and actively profit off the back of that rather than just kind of going scorched earth and trying something different.
 

NervousXtian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,503
Just be honest, you haven't actually read the thread.

People have literally proved your post wrong, they're not saying he can't return EVER, they're saying that his return after such a brief hiatus with no amends on show, like nothing happened, is not acceptable.

And it wasn't just allegations, it happened. He admitted it.

This person sexually abused women, and abused his position of power to silence them. If he were not famous he would have probably seen prison time, but he is and he's rich so he gets to just make a statement saying he's sorry, hide for a bit, and come back to applause.

I don't know how you think this is acceptable.

If he addressed it during a stand-up routine that'd be a bad move. He'd be killed for it too. He has addressed it already.

Also, no what he did probably wouldn't put him in prison. He was a massive pervert who was horrible at reading signals. What he did was wrong, he said as much.

He's a comedian, it's what he does, he does comedy. He doesn't force people to laugh or applause.
 

mattiewheels

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,107
I'm surprised he's not getting heckled in either of these surprise sets. All it takes is for one person to yell CREEP for him to address the elephant in the room but I think honestly that comedy cellar crowd worships him too much.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,887
If he addressed it during a stand-up routine that'd be a bad move. He'd be killed for it too. He has addressed it already.

Also, no what he did probably wouldn't put him in prison. He was a massive pervert who was horrible at reading signals. What he did was wrong, he said as much.

He's a comedian, it's what he does, he does comedy. He doesn't force people to laugh or applause.

He didn't just misread signals, he sexually abused women and then used his power to silence their voices. Please stop downplaying his actions.

People can see prison time for indecent exposure, and he did more and worse than just that.

He addressed it with a shit apology and said he was listening, then he hid for a bit and came back like nothing happened.

That anyone thinks this is acceptable is really disgusting.
 

JealousKenny

Banned
Jul 17, 2018
1,231
You can also choose to announce your warm up gigs is my point.

Comics don't do that. The point isn't to sell tickets to an audience that is there to see a Chappelle stand up. It's to test material on a random audience for a few minutes to gauge the reactions. When you announce a show and sell tickets for that show there is a different level of expectations as opposed to just showing up one night to test a couple jokes and go home.
 

Ebullientprism

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,529
LOL. Maybe he is moving in on the Cringe comedy routine now.

One audience member tweeted of C.K.'s set, "I saw Louis C.K. at the Comedy Cellar last night, and I'm happy to report that his new material is just as bad as the old."

But his old material was phenomenal.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,887
Thanks for that disingenuous shitpost aimed at me.

Sorry, but you are saying the person's talent is more important than their crime which, imo, is gross af.

There are plenty of great comedy writers you could support instead of a person who has not shown at all via their actions that they want to make amends for the harm they caused.
 

IggyChooChoo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,230
I'm surprised he's not getting heckled in either of these surprise sets. All it takes is for one person to yell CREEP for him to address the elephant in the room but I think honestly that comedy cellar crowd worships him too much.
I think heckling will happen eventually. The current situation feels untenable to me. I think part of the reason audiences so far have been so easy on him is because they're halfway expecting him to address it, and they'll get to be the special ones who witness it. I think he only has a few of these left before audiences stop feeling that way, and his shows will start to get derailed.
 

Deleted member 4021

Oct 25, 2017
1,707
I'm not defending what he did, it's disgusting. But for those asking for him to address what he did and apologize, https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/10/arts/television/louis-ck-statement.html . He did that. I genuinely think he knows what he did was wrong and isn't that kind of person anymore.

I also think he's taken the time to change. People change, and I think Louis C.K. has. You guys need to be able to let go of the hatred
If he had changed he wouldn't be taking actions right now which further harm women and embolden predators.
 

IggyChooChoo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,230
I'm not defending what he did, it's disgusting. But for those asking for him to address what he did and apologize, https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/10/arts/television/louis-ck-statement.html . He did that.

I also think he's taken the time to change. People change, and I think Louis C.K. has. You guys need to be able to let go of the hatred

Hatred? Please. Speaking as a huge fan who's massively disappointed, I don't see how anyone who's even passingly familiar with Louie's work can think he's said or done much of anything. I feel like Louie only did the bare minimum when he absolutely was forced to. I don't think we've gotten an adequate explanation or apology at all. I think there's a reason Pamela Adlon dropped Dave Becky as her agent once this shit came out, too.
 

Curufinwe

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,924
DE
He should have taken at least a full year off. Probably two or three. Do some charity work or something.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,887
I'm not defending what he did, it's disgusting. But for those asking for him to address what he did and apologize, https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/10/arts/television/louis-ck-statement.html . He did that. I genuinely think he knows what he did was wrong and isn't that kind of person anymore.

I also think he's taken the time to change. People change, and I think Louis C.K. has. You guys need to be able to let go of the hatred

We're all aware of his statement.

The problem is he hasn't backed up his statement with any actual action, and now it seems he's attempting to make a come back without doing so. Like nothing happened. And to applause.

So why would he even bother at this point?

The message it sends is a terrible one: if you're rich, white, powerful, you can ruin peoples lives with sexual abuse, hide until the storm passes, then build your career back up like nothing happened.

How do you think this makes his victims feel? And even if his specific victims all say it's ok by them, what about the countless victims of sexual abuse across the world watch this happen? Victims who have also been silenced, victims who are seeing yet another abuser walk free and carry on with no consequence?

I am truly baffled that so many people here can't understand why this is a huge problem.
 

Seganomics

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,495
It will just depend on the comic. But I can't say that because comic A doesn't announce and sell tickets to a quick test set that they are less confident or better than comic B that does.

I see. Maybe my 'sneaking into gigs' statement is the problem here. My point is, given what's happened, Louis would be better taking the 'Im Louis CK, come see my show (or not)' option.
 

Aurongel

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
7,065
We're all aware of his statement.

The problem is he hasn't backed up his statement with any actual action, and now it seems he's attempting to make a come back without doing so. Like nothing happened. And to applause.
Do you have any examples of what "actions" he can take to prove to the public that he's a changed man? What exactly is the burden of proof here for forgiving someone who's done gross things like he has?
 

CopperPuppy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,636
How many of these posts have we had yet: "What do those people not clapping expect him to do? Just disappear forever?"
 

AndyD

Mambo Number PS5
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,602
Nashville
What the hell, man... Him not even addressing that shit speaks volumes. What's he waiting for, to do it in a special? That opportunity likely won't come around.
This. If he apologizes and takes it seriously he should be able to go back to his sets fine. Some people will never forget/forgive, most will, and he can move on with his life.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,887
Do you have any examples of what "actions" he can take to prove to the public that he's a changed man? What exactly is the burden of proof here for forgiving someone who's done gross things like he has?

There is no rule, but are you really saying that hiding for a bit and then coming back with secret gigs like nothing happened is ok?

There are so many things he could have done: used his wealth to set something up to help abuse victims, used his platform to speak up about his own abuse and why it's so important to listen to women, maybe even set up a speaking tour to specifically address this and raise awareness...

You do realise that indecent exposure carries a potential prison term if convicted, right? And that his abuse extended beyond just indecent exposure as he was abusing his position of power, and he used that power to silence the voices his victims?

So not only did he avoid all actual punishment because he's rich and famous, he hasn't actual proven at all via any action that he wants to make amends for the harm he caused.


This. If he apologizes and takes it seriously he should be able to go back to his sets fine. Some people will never forget/forgive, most will, and he can move on with his life.

Yeh, I'll just go and sexually abuse some women. As long as I apologize and make sure to state I'm serious about it, I should avoid any punishment and, in a few months, without actually making any real amends, go back to my life like nothing happened.

Sounds perfectly reasonable.
 

Karasseram

Member
Jan 15, 2018
1,358
He's a piece of shit for what he did but he's going to come back into what he does and people will go to his shows. Only thing you can do is not support him financially.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,604
By all accounts (as in, from other comedians who know him personally) he's one of the hardest working people in comedy and incredibly talented on top of that, I'd honestly be surprised if he wasn't able to steer his material in a new direction. Not saying he is, or will, or should, I honestly don't have any investment in it, just that it sounds like he's more than capable. I dunno I just think it'd be kind of gross to incorporate it into his set and actively profit off the back of that rather than just kind of going scorched earth and trying something different.
You think it's more gross for him to publicly acknowledge his behavior, what was wrong with it, and what it says about male privilege writ large -- shit that he has already basically talked about and around in past sets anyway -- than it is for him to just try to gloss it over and hope the audiences are ready for business-as-usual Louis CK?

Personally, I think there's a lot of value in Louis addressing his shit head on in stand-up, particularly for the alpha bros in his audience who could stand to be told to their faces by someone they respect and like about why what he did was wrong. And I think trying to ingratiate himself with those bros as paying customers again, without trying to call attention to his past deviant behavior, sends exactly the wrong message -- to both men and women.

Do you have any examples of what "actions" he can take to prove to the public that he's a changed man? What exactly is the burden of proof here for forgiving someone who's done gross things like he has?

It's not really anyone's responsibility other than Louis' to determine what those actions should be. But it should at least be more than nothing.
 

Aurongel

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
7,065
There is no rule, but are you really saying that hiding for a bit and then coming back with secret gigs like nothing happened is ok?

Literally putting words in my mouth, not appreciated.

There are so many things he could have done: used his wealth to set something up to help abuse victims, used his platform to speak up about his own abuse and why it's so important to listen to women, maybe even set up a speaking tour to specifically address this and raise awareness...

You do realise that indecent exposure carries a potential prison term if convicted, right? And that his abuse extended beyond just indecent exposure as he was abusing his position of power, and he used that power to silence the voices his victims?

So not only did he avoid all actual punishment because he's rich and famous, he hasn't actual proven at all via any action that he wants to make amends for the harm he caused.
Relax, I'm not rationalizing his behavior or making excuses for what he did. I'm trying to have a discussion about how/when society should forgive people who are accused of similar awful things. I agree with your suggestion that he use his platform to speak about the terrible things he did and support his victims. I think there are a great many things he could be doing to prove to the public that he's a changed man but that specific thing should be mandatory.
 

cwmartin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,764
One thing that never really gets answered by people who think he should still be performing. Why is an admitted sexual abuser/harasser ENTITLED to continue performing?

If he never tells another joke in front of an audience, nothing of value in this world is lost. And in my opinion is his comeuppance.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,887
Literally putting words in my mouth, not appreciated.

No I wasn't, I was asking you a question. I asked "are you...", I didn't say "you said this". Which was a perfectly valid question to ask given the context of your post.

I would appreciate it if you read my posts properly before replying.

Relax, I'm not rationalizing his behavior or making excuses for what he did. I'm trying to have a discussion about how/when society should forgive people who are accused of similar awful things. I agree with your suggestion that he use his platform to speak about the terrible things he did and support his victims. I think there are a great many things he could be doing to prove to the public that he's a changed man but that specific thing should be mandatory.

Sorry, but I'm tired of people like yourself coming into this conversation and not reading the thread and asking the same thing that's been asked and answered a few dozen times already.

Your question is a tired one itself, too. Facts:

1. Indecent exposure carries a potential prison term if convicted.
2. He was not punished in any way by the law because he's rich and powerful (and white)
3. He made a statement saying he gets it and is listening.
4. He hid for a bit.
5. He comes back, via secret shows, to applause, without even attempting to address the elephant in the room.

Your initial question was "what would be acceptable in terms of amendment?"

The answer: any kind of actual amendment that proves he actually understand the harm his abuse caused, not only to his specific victims but victims of abuse the world over.

Now, you might feel like I'm unfairly attacking you here, but you approached this from a very insensitive position by asking "what would be acceptable in terms of making amends" when he clearly hasn't even bothered to do anything.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,466
One thing that never really gets answered by people who think he should still be performing. Why is an admitted sexual abuser/harasser ENTITLED to continue performing?

If he never tells another joke in front of an audience, nothing of value in this world is lost. And in my opinion is his comeuppance.
Unless he's been arrested, he's entitled to do whatever he wants with his career. People are welcome to not show up, or they can show up. These surprise gigs aren't really a good measurement of his popularity though. Once he starts actually scheduling gigs, we'll know how much interest there actually is in him.
 

Mekes

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
107
Love Louis, probably the best stand up comic on the planet for me. I don't condone what he did, but I do hope to see him back at some point.
 
Oct 29, 2017
5,354
How would him addressing it and apologizing on stage do anything to make him not a pervert telling creepy jokes? The dude is disgusting but people acting like they wouldn't be just as outraged (probably more outraged) if he were to apologize on stage or address the allegation before his set are a bit out there.

What are you basing this claim on?
 

Seganomics

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,495
Personally, I think there's a lot of value in Louis addressing his shit head on in stand-up, particularly for the alpha bros in his audience who could stand to be told to their faces by someone they respect and like about why what he did was wrong. And I think trying to ingratiate himself with those bros as paying customers again, without trying to call attention to his past deviant behavior, sends exactly the wrong message -- to both men and women.



It's not really anyone's responsibility other than Louis' to determine what those actions should be. But it should at least be more than nothing.

Totally agree. I mean doesnt he have a daughter(s)? There is something he could do with his platform. He would be a lamb to the slaughter to some, of course, but it is something I think I would like to see him address in a public arena.
 

haxan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,432
I wonder if he's doing this because it's something he has to do for himself, like a habit or compulsion. He has to know it's not time to make a comeback, especially without material that addresses the situation.
 

cwmartin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,764
Unless he's been arrested, he's entitled to do whatever he wants with his career. People are welcome to not show up, or they can show up. These surprise gigs aren't really a good measurement of his popularity though. Once he starts actually scheduling gigs, we'll know how much interest there actually is in him.

Sure, I believe that's how this will work. It just seems like this ONLY happens with entertainment related abusers (and this one is self admitted). Would you want a doctor sued for malpractice to remove your kidney? He did what he did in a position of power and influence his own profession enabled for him. Seems clear he's not fit to hold that position anymore. But the free market gets to decide?
 

John Dunbar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,229
One thing that never really gets answered by people who think he should still be performing. Why is an admitted sexual abuser/harasser ENTITLED to continue performing?

If he never tells another joke in front of an audience, nothing of value in this world is lost. And in my opinion is his comeuppance.
this seems like a strange way to phrase the question. you do not need a license to practice comedy, so he is "entitled" to do it if he chooses to do so. people who think he should not be entitled to continue performing need to explain how exactly are you going to stop an independently wealthy individual from talking into a mic.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,887
Unless he's been arrested, he's entitled to do whatever he wants with his career. People are welcome to not show up, or they can show up. These surprise gigs aren't really a good measurement of his popularity though. Once he starts actually scheduling gigs, we'll know how much interest there actually is in him.

And this kind of attitude is appalling.

He was not punished at all, his brief hiatus was self-imposed. he literally abused women and then silenced them using his position of power.

He has not earnt his come back at all, he has not made amends, he has not done anything that proves he even gives a fuck about his victims and the harm he did to abuse survivors all over the world.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,466
Sure, I believe that's how this will work. It just seems like this ONLY happens with entertainment related abusers (and this one is self admitted). Would you want a doctor sued for malpractice to remove your kidney? He did what he did in a position of power and influence his own profession enabled for him. Seems clear he's not fit to hold that position anymore. But the free market gets to decide?
That's a shitty analogy.
 

cwmartin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,764
this seems like a strange way to phrase the question. you do not need a license to practice comedy, so he is "entitled" to do it if he chooses to do so. people who think he should not be entitled to continue perform need to explain how exactly are you going to stop an independently wealthy individual talking to a mic.

In my personal opinion? The industry should blacklist him.

Other industries and professions have official and diplomatic ways of doing this. Like you said, removing licensure, preventing funding, etc. Seems a little convenient he or anyone can just say "well its not iLLEGAL!". I haven't seen any one argue what he's doing is illegal. Although I think its gross and disrespectful to the women he abused.