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Love Boat 3 Mafia |OT| This time it's Bearsonal

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Natiko

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,263
Fantomas said:
What has pinged you about Fran if you don't mind me asking? I've actually felt kind of good about his posts so far just from what I can recall.

What do you make of Sorian's thought on them both being Scum?
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It's nothing huge, but I found the contrast between Fran voting Monkey due to past actions and his time spent trying to dissuade people from voting Sorian for his past actions noteworthy at least compared to a lot of the noise so far. That being said I'll readily admit that A) I tend to read Fran as scum B) My revenge lust makes me wish Sorian was scum just for the poetic justice and C) Fran tends to scumread Monkey in every game so it's not exactly a surprising turn of events. That's why I'm more interested in seeing what Fando provides as opposed to drilling Fran over shit that may just be a mix of happenstance and bias.
 
Terraforce

Terraforce

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
18,917
Sorian said:
Hmmm, I'm not sure why I have to define this for you since I'm pretty sure you know this but "distancing" is specifically a mafia term talking about when two scum members fake a fight or do something else in thread so that others believe they can't be team members (we'll put that under Tips for Newbies Chapter 4)

The distance is not a literal representation of time between posts or whatever you are getting at.
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Ah I see. I know the meaning in mafia terms, it just didn't seem like that's how you were using it in that context. My bad.
 
Pirate Bae

Pirate Bae

Edelgard Feet Appreciator
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,792
??
Kits, I haven't done shit all game. Why am I on your list again? Stu has done way more than me, so I don't understand your read at all
 
Kitsunelaine

Kitsunelaine

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Oct 25, 2017
6,382
Pirate Bae said:
Kits, I haven't done shit all game. Why am I on your list again? Stu has done way more than me, so I don't understand your read at all
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You posted your thoughts on a thing. I hadn't seen Stu do that at all, I'd only seen him poke others. You can't play mafia vicariously through other people if you're actually in the game yourself, you gotta contribute too.
 
Kitsunelaine

Kitsunelaine

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Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,382
(And at the time I posted the list, it's not like people hadn't asked him to, or prodded him in ways that would have warranted it.)
 
Pirate Bae

Pirate Bae

Edelgard Feet Appreciator
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,792
??
Kitsunelaine said:
You posted your thoughts on a thing. I hadn't seen Stu do that at all, I'd only seen him poke others. You can't play mafia vicariously through other people if you're actually in the game yourself, you gotta contribute too.
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I mean in his defense poking others is one of the best ways to get reads, so it's not inherently scummy during the early game with little information to go on.
 
Kitsunelaine

Kitsunelaine

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Oct 25, 2017
6,382
Pirate Bae said:
I mean in his defense poking others is one of the best ways to get reads, so it's not inherently scummy during the early game with little information to go on.
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But there were plenty of opportunities and requests to participate in other ways and he didn't. My thing isn't that he poked others-- it's that he's only poked others.
 
Fran

Fran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,167
Natiko said:
It's nothing huge, but I found the contrast between Fran voting Monkey due to past actions and his time spent trying to dissuade people from voting Sorian for his past actions noteworthy at least compared to a lot of the noise so far.
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This is not right. I voted Monkey because I think she is using the same tactic as she has used as scum before but Monkey isn't doing the same with Sorian. She wants to lynch Sorian not because his actions in this game are scummy but just because he is Sorian. This is what she said:

Dr. Monkey said:
So if d1 ends up without any good reason to vote someone else, he's as good a reason as any.
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The way I understand it she doesn't care if Sorian is acting scummy or not. She already set Sorian as her default lynch for D1 unless someone else is acting really scummy.
 
Kitsunelaine

Kitsunelaine

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Oct 25, 2017
6,382
Pirate Bae said:
So...how is that a problem again?
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See, here's the thing. My read shouldn't have generated this much discussion, because it wasn't a very hard read. People asked for elaborations, I gave 'em, then Stu got spooked, voted for me, I voted back because he got spooked, and it turned into this whole thing. Right now I'm more concerend about the fact that he got spooked than the fact that y'all are trying to wrap your heads around my initial suspicion.
 
TheChuggernaut

TheChuggernaut

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,202
I would like to make a request to the whoever is killing people tonight to not kill Vere because he's died first in the last couple of games I've been in and I feel bad
 
Natiko

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,263
Fran said:
This is not right. I voted Monkey because I think she is using the same tactic as she has used as scum before but Monkey isn't doing the same with Sorian. She wants to lynch Sorian not because his actions in this game are scummy but just because he is Sorian. This is what she said:



The way I understand it she doesn't care if Sorian is acting scummy or not. She already set Sorian as her default lynch for D1 unless someone else is acting really scummy.
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It is right, but this is quickly going to devolve into semantics. Your read on Monkey is a meta read. Monkey's read on Sorian is also a meta read. Just because yours points to a singular example and Monkey's is a more holistic view does not change that both are reliant on how a player has behaved in previous games.
 
Fandorin

Fandorin

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,356
Hello everyone! Sorry for my initial absence, I'm caught up now.

Don't see much here on game start. I think we've might have gone through the inevitable "no lynch" talk at D1 without serious damage to the discussion, so that's a plus.

Fantomas seems pushy enough and Stuart nitpicky enough for their townie selves so far. Liked their overall posts. Have they been scum since MafiERA?

Monkey initial push on Sorian is standard play by now, though I'm interested in B-Dubs' role on this. B-Dubs what do you think of Monkey's approach on your partner?

QUOTE="Natiko, post: 20820366, member: 2482"]Fandorin Come out and play. Give me something to work with here.[/QUOTE]
Heyo Nat! I'm here to play!

I'm very pleasantly surprised by this callout (though it immediatly made me wary of you, since I don't expect to be noticed this soon (not even my brother gave two shits about me) and Fran didn't post much either so elicit his partner input)!

Kitsunelaine said:
And I'm sure if I didn't provide a list, you'd vote for me all the same.

<3

Vote: Stuart444

I currently read Sorian as a potential misguided town, fishing for reactions.
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Kitsunelaine said:
I don't know about B-Dubs. I think that could be justified as a town screwup. I'd need to see more from them.

So my list so far!
Scum:
Sorian
Stuart444

Soft scum lean:
B-Dubs

Town:
?????
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Walk me through this progression on Sorian, please. I think this was called out by Nat a bit already, but I might've glossed over it.
 
Fran

Fran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,167
Natiko said:
It is right, but this is quickly going to devolve into semantics. Your read on Monkey is a meta read. Monkey's read on Sorian is also a meta read. Just because yours points to a singular example and Monkey's is a more holistic view does not change that both are reliant on how a player has behaved in previous games.
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But there is a big difference (for me at least):

My vote on Monkey is based on her actions in THIS game based on the meta that I have on her.

Monkey's default lynch on Sorian is not based on anything about this game but only her meta. She never talks about anything that Sorian did this game.
 
Fandorin

Fandorin

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,356
Natiko said:
Fandorin Come out and play. Give me something to work with here.
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Heyo Nat! I'm here to play!

I'm very pleasantly surprised by this callout (though it immediatly made me wary of you, since I don't expect to be noticed this soon (not even my brother gave two shits about me) and Fran didn't post much either so elicit his partner input)!
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Of course I messed up a quote.
 
Fanto

Fanto

Is this tag ok?
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Oct 25, 2017
11,863
Well, I was a Neutral SK in the last game, but Scum shot me on N1. (still killed Vere though lol)
 
Kitsunelaine

Kitsunelaine

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Oct 25, 2017
6,382
Fandorin said:
Walk me through this progression on Sorian, please. I think this was called out by Nat a bit already, but I might've glossed over it.
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As stated before, though it's fine if you missed it (there's a lot to catch up on); I'm wavering because of the way Sorian keeps doubling down. I don't really know what to think. It could go either way, but nothing Sorian does makes any sense whatsoever to me.
 
Dr. Monkey

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Kitsunelaine said:
Still getting used to the "everyone has partners" thing
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I don't buy this at all. You played in the last LB. why would you not even look at the list? You are aware that YOU have a partner. Why would you not think of anyone else's?
Kitsunelaine said:
Aye. Well, what I'll say for now is I don't necessarily need to scum read B-Dubs in order to scum read his partner. One half of a team could slip up without the other half acting to support the slip-up.
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This is why you have to look at the team holistically as well as individually.

I'm definitely getting some vibes here but I don't want to pile on too much since so many people are on you and it makes it easy for people to hide around that. And I'm not sure this isn't NAI for you since you went wild aggro like this in GoT and also forgot/missed stuff in HvV so I'm not sure how to weigh it. But I struggle with "oh right, partners, lol."
 
Natiko

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,263
Fandorin said:
Hello everyone! Sorry for my initial absence, I'm caught up now.

Don't see much here on game start. I think we've might have gone through the inevitable "no lynch" talk at D1 without serious damage to the discussion, so that's a plus.

Fantomas seems pushy enough and Stuart nitpicky enough for their townie selves so far. Liked their overall posts. Have they been scum since MafiERA?

Monkey initial push on Sorian is standard play by now, though I'm interested in B-Dubs' role on this. B-Dubs what do you think of Monkey's approach on your partner?

QUOTE="Natiko, post: 20820366, member: 2482"]Fandorin Come out and play. Give me something to work with here.
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Heyo Nat! I'm here to play!

I'm very pleasantly surprised by this callout (though it immediatly made me wary of you, since I don't expect to be noticed this soon (not even my brother gave two shits about me) and Fran didn't post much either so elicit his partner input)!



Walk me through this progression on Sorian, please. I think this was called out by Nat a bit already, but I might've glossed over it.[/QUOTE]
To be fair it was more me noticing Fran and then going to check who his partner was that made me realize you hadn't shown up lol

Fran said:
But there is a big difference (for me at least):

My vote on Monkey is based on her actions in THIS game based on the meta that I have on her.

Monkey's default lynch on Sorian is not based on anything about this game but only her meta. She never talks about anything that Sorian did this game.
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I think your stance assumes there's some obvious tell we can use to pluck out scum Sorian over town Sorian (as you feel you've done for Monkey). His biggest strength is arguably his ability to play virtually the same regardless of alignment. Worse yet - his reads the last few games that I can recall have been kinda trash tbh, which only increases his odds of dodging night kills. Arguing to vote Sorian out for being hard to read is tantamount to arguing to vote out a low poster due to them being hard to read. The difference is Sorian is much more likely to have derailed the game in his favor as the days go by.

All that being said, the chances Sorian gets voted out today are about the same as us voting out someone that barely shows up - slim to none. It's not really the meta of this community.
 
Kitsunelaine

Kitsunelaine

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Oct 25, 2017
6,382
Dr. Monkey said:
I don't buy this at all. You played in the last LB. why would you not even look at the list? You are aware that YOU have a partner. Why would you not think of anyone else's?
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I already said I have an absolutely godfucking awful memory and it's fucked me in more games than this one

Dr. Monkey said:
This is why you have to look at the team holistically as well as individually.

I'm definitely getting some vibes here but I don't want to pile on too much since so many people are on you and it makes it easy for people to hide around that. And I'm not sure this isn't NAI for you since you went wild aggro like this in GoT and also forgot/missed stuff in HvV so I'm not sure how to weigh it. But I struggle with "oh right, partners, lol."
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My partner has only made like a couple of posts in the partner chat and I've been tackling this entire day pretty much solo so far, how could I *not* forget this is a partner game

Kalor where are you?! orz
 
Dr. Monkey

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Nat, I love you the most (after my partner) and I think you are 100% right on your Fran thing, because he definitely tends to scumread me no matter what, but oof, your defense of me also makes me raise the smallest of eyebrows.
 
Natiko

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,263
Fireblend The vote tool appears to be ordering vote leaders incorrectly (for me at least)

Dr. Monkey said:
Nat, I love you the most (after my partner) and I think you are 100% right on your Fran thing, because he definitely tends to scumread me no matter what, but oof, your defense of me also makes me raise the smallest of eyebrows.
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Was it a defense of you or a defense of why we should all vote Sorian🤔
 

SkyOdin

Member
Apr 21, 2018
2,680
Sorian said:
This will all be explained away with jokey jokey haha day 1 fun times and honestly, you didn't really hit on the important bit but that was probably only important to me. What do you think of Stuart?
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I don't like this post. This was in response to Fantomas quoting a bunch of Dr. Monkey's posts. However, I don't think Sorian ever elaborated on what the "important bit" was. What bothers me though is the tone Sorian takes here. Throughout this day so far, Sorian has been projecting an aura of authority and knowledge. An aura that says "Sorian is always right and sees everything".
Sorian said:
Answer both things then. I dropped bait purposely and you went for it and only it. Don't blame me because you prefer making noise instead of elaborating on your fake reads.
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And here is more of that. Sorian makes a big show of how he "dropped bait purposefully". This feels less like trying to get anything useful out of Kitsune and more like Sorian engaging in needless theatrics.
 
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