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Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
I just had a weird totally self-centered thought. I wonder if scum killed Fran because he called me out for my weird secret partner comment and they were hoping someone would jump on that with all the talk of maybe lynching one day at some point kind of. #toiletthoughts
 

Z-Beat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,849
It doesn't matter. You're talking about weak reasoning for a semi-confirmed cop coming out with a check on D2. I honestly don't understand what you're getting at here, unless you're really trying to argue that the scum team would just shrug at the potential of a cop identifying one of them and then yelling that out the next day just because they were suspicious the previous day.
I'm retaining my potential theory until proven otherwise. It's the most thought out one I got.
CoolestSpot any current thoughts? You've been quiet for a bit.
I have no answers for you
 

Zippedpinhead

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,739
Dumb question: do town always have a protector PR?
not at all, its a common assumption though. Even if we don't get an official "doctor" we might get something like a guard or Jr doctor (who CAN heal/stop a death but dies in the process/dies if they protect scum).

oh and Scum can and has screwed up and undoubtedly you will play a game where it happens again.

Go with your gut, it often right.
 

Verelios

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,877
They no longer have their power anymore, so why is this somehow a big deal? They're just as suspicious as any other at this point in time, and there's not even the risk of lynching an active PR, by their own admission.
It's not a big deal, I'm just wondering why you wanted to unravel this thread today outside of anyone else.
It could go either way based on this, though I'd lean town because it isn't super negative but could be negative utility. I'm just trying to think it through from multiple angles here.

While I have your attention, why is it bad for me to talk to Stu in the thread but not for Sorian to do so to cover for his partner making a weird post? #saltybiscuit #notsorry
My side point was that I felt like anyone directly replying to their lover is weird, in a conversational sense. NAI, just a feeling.
 

FluxWaveZ

Persona Central
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
10,890
It's not a big deal, I'm just wondering why you wanted to unravel this thread today outside of anyone else.
I did not say that. I said that I wouldn't mind seeing Pirate Malus flipped today, but if they're the ones I wanted to see flipped, I would have voted. I still need to consider who I suspect the most right now, where Natiko + Terraforce and Dr. Monkey + Stuart are up there.

But I don't like this talk of putting Pirate Malus off for sometime else. If not now, when? What would exactly be the impetus to look back on them and not let them coast until the end?
 

Verelios

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,877
I just had a weird totally self-centered thought. I wonder if scum killed Fran because he called me out for my weird secret partner comment and they were hoping someone would jump on that with all the talk of maybe lynching one day at some point kind of. #toiletthoughts
You're right, that's weirdly self-conscious.
 

Pirate Bae

Edelgard Feet Appreciator
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,799
??
Okay, so if we're to the point of tossing out any concern with getting in on her good side/gaining trust it becomes a matter of does pulling her from the chat do enough to derail where the check goes. How about this:

Pirate Bae Did your bearnappers attempt to box you in to specific checks? You mentioned discussing them with them and them 'being okay' with the options you mentioned. Did they try and dissuade you from any or push for a specific choice?
No, they offered suggestions but nothing intimidating
 

empressdonna

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,096
Scotland, United Kingdom
Dr. Monkey

Okay so going through terra's posts slowly, I honestly see quite a few posts that make feel like he is more likely town than scum at least, for now.

For example this post:

You are far too quick to just go along with what others say, man. Think for yourself and come to your own conclusions. If you agree with him that's fine and all, but of the few posts you've made it's hard to consistently follow your mindset in this game. Seems like you're just going with whatever answer "sounds right."

Just sounds like a townie trying to help out someone else and trying to get them to think for themselves instead of jumping onto whatever train they can.

To add to this, too many times Geno has done to me when I was town. He thinks he knows best when often that's far from the case.

Though cocky Geno is generally town Geno, so I think him kinda being an ass helps his case lol

Also this post about the geno thing also felt really genuine as well, just saying that he's seen him do that in the past.
 

Pirate Bae

Edelgard Feet Appreciator
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,799
??
There's a lot of talk and I'm observing it and letting my reads evolve, we aren't even 24 hours into the day yet after all.

If you want some reads though, I still think Natiko/Terra are looking a bit scummy today, they are engaging and interacting but I don't see them bringing much to the table.

I've considered moving my vote to Coolest/Z-Beat to pressure them into doing some more though, since both are pretty off my radar so far and nothing about them is really pinging me as Town so far.

Brazil is also someone I want to hear more from, he has teased some reads, and since his availability seems to be spotty I'm hoping I can get more from him when he shows up.

What are your thoughts on Verelios if you have any? I feel like I'm kind of defaulting to a town read there, but I don't know why for sure and I want to reexamine that.
I like his reads today. They make sense. Kinda feel weird about Apollo though; she hasn't done much today.
 

Verelios

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,877
I did not say that. I said that I wouldn't mind seeing Pirate Malus flipped today, but if they're the ones I wanted to see flipped, I would have voted. I still need to consider who I suspect the most right now, where Natiko + Terraforce and Dr. Monkey + Stuart are up there.

But I don't like this talk of putting Pirate Malus off for sometime else. If not now, when? What would exactly be the impetus to look back on them and not let them coast until the end?
When they start acting scummy? When you can connect back flips to them? The entire reason for putting them off until later is because, at extremes, they can reasonably be scum or town RC, and you could fling whatever shit at them you wanted today, it still wouldn't change that you don't have the receipts to kick them down. If you disagree then make a case that holds up.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Dr. Monkey

Okay so going through terra's posts slowly, I honestly see quite a few posts that make feel like he is more likely town than scum at least, for now.

For example this post:



Just sounds like a townie trying to help out someone else and trying to get them to think for themselves instead of jumping onto whatever train they can.



Also this post about the geno thing also felt really genuine as well, just saying that he's seen him do that in the past.
Thanks, donna. I may have some other questions from your readslist later but mostly I feel we are in similar territory and I appreciate that because sometimes your partner can be a little difficult to read until later in the game.
 

FluxWaveZ

Persona Central
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
10,890
Why do you suspect us again?
This response would be one of them, with you feeling the need to jump at any and all doubt directed towards your team.

Dr. Monkey has felt off to me since D1, as well. But I'd need to gather stuff for a more elaborate post to make a more conclusive point.
When they start acting scummy? When you can connect back flips to them? The entire reason for putting them off until later is because, at extremes, they can reasonably be scum or town RC, and you could fling whatever shit at them you wanted today, it still wouldn't change that you don't have the receipts to kick them down. If you disagree then make a case that holds up.
They're the ones who have the most information to work with today by far. So if you agree that they're not necessarily town and not necessarily scum, flinging whatever at them is equivalent to flinging whatever at anyone else. I'm not here to present a case for their lynch right now. Again, I already said that if they were the ones I wanted to lynch, I would have put a vote down.

I don't understand the outright defense for them you're putting forward.
 

Verelios

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,877
This response would be one of them, with you feeling the need to jump at any and all doubt directed towards your team.

Dr. Monkey has felt off to me since D1, as well. But I'd need to gather stuff for a more elaborate post to make a more conclusive point.

They're the ones who have the most information to work with today by far. So if you agree that they're not necessarily town and not necessarily scum, flinging whatever at them is equivalent to flinging whatever at anyone else. I'm not here to present a case for their lynch right now. Again, I already said that if they were the ones I wanted to lynch, I would have put a vote down.

I don't understand the outright defense for them you're putting forward.
I'm trying to understand where you're coming from. So you don't want to make a case for them, but you also don't want us to forget that you think they're just like everyone else today, and you and everyone else here should be able to make a case for them even if you aren't? Brah.
 

Stuart444

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,070
This response would be one of them, with you feeling the need to jump at any and all doubt directed towards your team.

Dr. Monkey has felt off to me since D1, as well. But I'd need to gather stuff for a more elaborate post to make a more conclusive point.

Asking a question because I haven't seen you discuss us much recently makes you suspect us haha. okay then.
 

FluxWaveZ

Persona Central
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
10,890
I'm trying to understand where you're coming from. So you don't want to make a case for them, but you also don't want us to forget that you think they're just like everyone else today, and you and everyone else here should be able to make a case for them even if you aren't? Brah.
I literally just said that I wouldn't mind if they were flipped today. Relax. Stop trying to put words in my mouth; you tried to do exactly this in 999 and all it did was make things blow up in your face.
 

Stuart444

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,070
Jesus Christ y'all freaking thirsty. There's like 30 other people in here, calm down

Literally took a break from work to type this all out so people would chill

Hang on

What? No ones having a go at you so this is kinda a weird response to me asking if you have any current thoughts since we've not seen you for a while.
 
Oct 26, 2017
19,760
This response would be one of them, with you feeling the need to jump at any and all doubt directed towards your team.

Dr. Monkey has felt off to me since D1, as well. But I'd need to gather stuff for a more elaborate post to make a more conclusive point.

They're the ones who have the most information to work with today by far. So if you agree that they're not necessarily town and not necessarily scum, flinging whatever at them is equivalent to flinging whatever at anyone else. I'm not here to present a case for their lynch right now. Again, I already said that if they were the ones I wanted to lynch, I would have put a vote down.

I don't understand the outright defense for them you're putting forward.
I haven't read many "yikes" posts yet, but this one is a yikes. You state Monkey and Stu are high up there on suspicion list with no reason given in post. Stu asks you why you suspect them, then you respond by calling the very question suspicious? What is suspicious about someone wanting to defend themselves? You call it jumping, but Stu didn't flip tables, didn't call you scum, etc. He asked very simply. It is a town thing to want to defend yourself. The scum play would've been to ignore your post and let it fade as it surely would have since it had no substance.
 

Brazil

Actual Brazilian
Member
Oct 24, 2017
18,435
São Paulo, Brazil
I'm not caught up with the thread at all, but I'm jumping in for the few minutes I have to relay the thoughts on D1 Monkey I'd promised before, since I already saw people tagging me for them.

Early on, Fantomas was quick to jump in against Monkey with what was one of the first "real" votes in the game.

Monkey seems scummy to me.

This is all weak. Meme vote for Sorian, asks B-Dubs a pointless question that she doesn't care about, turns around on Kits and pretends to scum hunt for bit, then reiterates that she wants B-Dubs to answer her pointless question.

Vote: Dr. Monkey
In response, Monkey strangely doubled down on what I, at the time, believed was no more than a joke vote against B-Dubs/Sorian:

I guess I'm about your Sorian, so this makes sense. Question to B-Dubs isn't pointless, though. Unless I have a good reason to vote someone else this phase, I am happy to lunch Sorian right out of the window. Right now we got a lot of people trying hard (what they're trying varies by person) but there's so many that unless someone really stands out, we honestly might as well get rid of him, unless B-Dubs demonstrates a reason not to.

So it's not pointless. It's a challenge to Dubs to demonstrate why he (and hence Sorian) should stay in the game.
She wants B-Dubs to "demonstrate why" we shouldn't get rid of them, which was a really weird proposition to make when the game had literally just started.

It's right around this time that Stuart becomes tilted, as Fanto puts their boat in the lead. Town!Kits also goes back to her vote against them, leaving them with 4.

When confronted by Kits about how they're (Monkey/Stu) not putting in the work, Monkey says the following:

literally me and Stu are most of the discussion

brb, scumhunting myself
Which is interesting in contrast to her initial vote against B-Dubs - she pushed him against the wall and asked him to be productive, but her excuse for not being productive is the fact that she'd been pushed against the wall.

Around this point in the game, Monkey/Stu are still in the lead with 4 votes against Coolest/Beat and Kits/Kalor with 3 votes each.

Monkey then drops some weak reads and flimsy prodding questions. The one aimed at my partner caught my attention because it was so tangential it was never going to lead anywhere interesting.

The next one is key, so please read it in its entirety:

These votes on me and Stu, they came super early in the day, like within the first few hours. Do y'all really think that Stuart and I are going to sail into a game as scum and out ourselves immediately? It is a billion times more likely that we were just relaxed coming in and not concerned. That should tell y'all something. That should definitely tell Sorian and Geno something; they've been around the flagpole enough times to know how to read that (Fran gets a pass because I'm a hellbeast to Fran; got that Always Seems Scum syndrome). I know it's still early but all y'all just sitting on these votes is complacent. I know we hate to reassess but like... really, the odds of scum!Dr. Stuart showing their scum asses in the first three hours of the game is low.

I'll address a couple of these in particular:

Sorian's scumreading me because I didn't pick up the bait (it wasn't) about his fake claim (it was dumb), though he acknowledges I said I wasn't going to be around much at day start. Sorian, between 5-6:30 every day, I'm taking care of family and making/eating dinner. If you're gonna get mad at someone last game for talking about RL, don't do it here. I gave that head's up early. I might check in on mobile while I'm cooking but I'm not heavy posting. That's not just this game. That's been a lot of games. You wanna scumread me? Do it over something real, not my dinner and your nested spoiler takes that break on mobile.

Fanto doing a targeted read on me only of the whole game and declaring I'm scummy is lazy. Fran deciding my early Sorian vote is only something I do as scum is lazy but Fran gonna Fran (no hard feelings, Fran). Geno shades another player while voting Stu and then just leaves it. Kits is just all over the place. If y'all were putting down pressure votes, we've both posted since then. Reassess. (Caveat: I only know what my partner's said in boat since I was here last; maybe he riled everyone up.)

It's not 24 hours in yet but come on, y'all. I'm all for an info lynch, but deciding you got scum a couple hours in for flimsy reasons is not going to yield you info. What'll happen is town mills around, scum making does some herding, if nothing else happens, a bunch of people pile on this vote, we flip, y'all say oops, and you learn nothing except that you lost potentially strong voices. And if y'all do want to throw us in the volcano? Great. Do something in the meantime other than just sitting on the same votes. Move your votes around. Act. Then come back and kill us. That's whatever.

Now I'm gonna catch up.
Monkey comes back to the thread after a break only to find more heat coming their way.

In my chat with Flux, I compared this directly to Monkey's post about how we couldn't possibly find anything by looking through Faddy's posts in MafiEra. It's right at the bottom at the uncanny valley in terms of how blatant it is, to the point where I'd probably handwave this away (like I eventually did in MafiEra) as something scum would never do, if I hadn't already experienced the aforementioned MafiEra post.

To sum it up, paragraph by paragraph:

"Do you really think Stu and I would be caught so easily as scum?"
"Sorian's reason for scumreading me isn't real. Do better."
"Fanto's reason for scumreading me is lazy. Do better."
"Take your votes off of us and move them elsewhere, and then maybe come back to us if you really need to. Also, you'll regret losing us."

She'd later repeat the same "Scum wouldn't do this" argument, as would Stu - multiple times.

Monkey then started agreeing with Stu's woe-is-me defeatist posts, like the "If I change, then you'll lynch me for having changed" one. (In this same post, she does what I felt was a light attempt at pocketing Flux after he mentioned not liking the train against herself/Stu.)

The "Look elsewhere" spiel would also be repeated. (In the same post, she tried to dismiss her Sorian/B-Dubs vote, even though she argued for it beyond when the vote expired.)

Quoting from the tool is weird/sorry but listen, y'all. There is scum somewhere on this vote. This many people do not arbitrarily decide Stu and I are scum within the first few hours of the day, and yeah, I'm sorry, the early votes are pretty arbitrary. I understand y'all'ss frustration with Stu. I also understand his frustration. But we are not scum and we are not a d1 lynch. And these people just sitting here and not doing anything else, even to the point of Geno saying lol, I'm not really paying attention to Monkey's posts, it's at best lazy af. (Not saying Geno is necessarily the scum, just pointing out that's lazy.) It does not serve town. At all. We're less than 24 hours to day end and these people haven't done shit, with some grace for Fran, since early in the phase, and other people are happy to throw shade at us because there's been a narrative planted that we are scum.

Kill us if you need to. But remember this.
This post is another doozy, full of very bad lines.

- She tries to paint all the votes against them as "arbitrary".
- Spells out why she and Stu would be that frustrated if they were scum in the "We are not a D1 lynch" line.
- Calls Geno out, but refuses to outright call him scum.
- Claims that people who were voting for them "haven't done shit since early in the phase" (not really a fair criticism when considering what she and Stu did that phase.)
- And finally ends with some "Don't forget this when I'm dead" faux-drama.

This far into the phase, she doubles down on the "What makes Sorian/B-Dubs town?" argument.

Then it's back to "When I'm dead" drama.

And I'm sure some of y'all think I'm hammering these Sorian questions too hard, but listen - we are still the vote leaders and if we get flipped today, I want to leave a very strong impression here that you should NOT let him slide. I don't know his alignment. But I know he is slippery and people put him off out of reluctance because he's hard to read or he could be useful and so what he does gets ignored. Don't ignore him. Pay attention to him.

I asked them both to tell me why they thought Sorian was town and both just said he hadn't done anything particularly scummy. I asked again for anything townie and just got "not scummy."
And back once again back to Sorian as well, which is something she, as pointed above, claimed was a vote that had "only lasted 4 minutes", when in truth is the extent of her work during that phase. She stuck with that throughout the entire day, while chastising others for not putting in the work where she wanted them to.

But then... their train deflated.

Suddenly

There wasn't actually momentum. It was all early; that's part of why I was so frustrated over it. Anyone who addressed later behavior just threw light shade (if they had scum feelings about it) without voting; those would be more interesting later, I think. Geno was the only one who came later, because he and Stu just kept sniping at each other.
"There wasn't actually momentum" behind the train against them.

I was diplomatic over the misuse of the "momentum" word when going back and forth with her over this at the time, but when reading through back through her posts overnight, this part really didn't make much sense.

To the second: the lack of momentum was what was frustrating. To have so many people out here trying to seriously put forth the idea that Stu and I would just blow up and reveal ourselves as scum in the first three hours of the game is frankly ridiculous, and to have them sit there and not really do anything else either, despite being active... yeah. That's boggling to me. Stu was frustrated for different reasons. I know how it feels to get hammered on tone like that. It really does start to feel like no matter what you do, you're fucked.
She was trying to downplay how nervous they were over the heat they were getting.

No matter how you look at it, there was momentum behind their train - Monkey's and Stu's own demeanor and posts are proof of that. One moment, both were being dramatic about what we should do after they were lynched, and about how the people voting for them were being "lazy" or that they "hadn't done shit". The next, when they were not in immediate danger anymore, she tried to play it cool.

Overall, her entire phase doesn't sit right with me. Basically all of her effort throughout the phase was invested in trying to make people look the other way from her boat, and the closest thing she had to show in terms of scumhunting was "What makes B-Dubs/Sorian town?", which was born out of a meme vote but somehow lingered in her discourse over the entire phase.


---

Once again - not caught up, and won't be until tonight. I'd be more confident in a vote here if I didn't have my doubts regarding Sorian as well, and I would be surprised if they all turned out to be scummates. So I really wanna figure this one out.

Also, I didn't revise this post, so fingers crossed it won't completely break down in a mess of Terraforce'd tags (<3).
 

Fanto

Is this tag ok?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,863
Here's where I'm at for now at least.

Townish:
Ty/AB & Bae/Malus - These two boats go together with the read for now since I'm believing the claim and the green check to be real.
Monkey/Stu - I'm having a hard time seeing Monkey as Scum, as per the usual. I'll be more suspect of her in later days if she's alive. Stu can always give me bad vibes regardless of his alignment in my experience, so again, I'd wait a bit before I became more sure of that one. For now, leaning town here.
Sky/Chugg - I've liked a lot of Sky's posts lately I feel like, and when Chugg is around I think he's putting in the kinds of thoughts I'd expect from him, giving big read lists and stuff, so I feel pretty good about this boat.
Rac/Vincent - Mostly just early meta-based stuff about how I've seen them before, I just don't think I'd be interested in suddenly voting them out today, they seem fine.

Re-examining:
Vere/Apollo - Vere's reads and his engagement do seem pretty genuine to me, Apollo was a bit more active earlier, but I'd like to see some more reads from her as we get to the latter half of the phase. As for Vere, I want to give him a reread here to see if anything sticks out.
Reki/Xbro - Reki seems fine for the most part, but I want to take another look at Xbro's posts because I remember liking some of them when I think back off the top of my head, but I want to see why that was.

Nullish:
Brazil/Flux - Flux is tough for me to read, I think I need to wait until he gets a read list out or gives some more detailed thoughts because I'm seeing a lot of role speculation and concern about claims, but not many reads. Brazil I'm giving some leeway to since he's not around as often as we all expect him to be, but I still want more from him, one of those big ol' Brazil posts with tons of accusations and stuff.
Geno/Sparks - Not much to go off of, Geno's opinion for the day was made clear though.
FEPs/Stan - I don't feel too bad about them and probably wouldn't want to see them gone today, but there isn't a whole lot for me to pick up on yet. I am hoping to see some more thoughts FEPs especially once he's around again.
Kyan/Donna - Donna's reads are still pretty light, but it all seems normal for her so far. I think some of Kyan's posts are fine but maybe give me a slight feeling that he's just going along with the crowd a bit.

Scummish:
Sorian/B-Dubs - Very few unique thoughts from B-Dubs still, and he hasn't been doing much scum hunting here. Plenty of people have voiced concerns about Sorian and I can see why, though my own ability to get a solid read on him is not the best, I still feel off about him.
Natiko/Terra - I feel like I'm one of the only people trying to bark up this tree so far. I've felt that both of them are trying to stir up discussions on topics that are just kind of pointless, and they really aren't bringing many scum reads here, just concern and arguments with various players. I don't like the content that I'm seeing here so far.
Coolest/Z-Beat - This one would feel too easy, but there's nothing really townish to me about either of them. Both of them feel like they are having trouble finding topics to engage with outside of roles/mechanics and aren't putting many reads out, which seems naturally scummy to me.
 

Fanto

Is this tag ok?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,863
Oh shit, there's one of those big ol' Brazil posts with accusations and stuff!
 

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,263
I'm not caught up with the thread at all, but I'm jumping in for the few minutes I have to relay the thoughts on D1 Monkey I'd promised before, since I already saw people tagging me for them.

Early on, Fantomas was quick to jump in against Monkey with what was one of the first "real" votes in the game.


In response, Monkey strangely doubled down on what I, at the time, believed was no more than a joke vote against B-Dubs/Sorian:


She wants B-Dubs to "demonstrate why" we shouldn't get rid of them, which was a really weird proposition to make when the game had literally just started.

It's right around this time that Stuart becomes tilted, as Fanto puts their boat in the lead. Town!Kits also goes back to her vote against them, leaving them with 4.

When confronted by Kits about how they're (Monkey/Stu) not putting in the work, Monkey says the following:


Which is interesting in contrast to her initial vote against B-Dubs - she pushed him against the wall and asked him to be productive, but her excuse for not being productive is the fact that she'd been pushed against the wall.

Around this point in the game, Monkey/Stu are still in the lead with 4 votes against Coolest/Beat and Kits/Kalor with 3 votes each.

Monkey then drops some weak reads and flimsy prodding questions. The one aimed at my partner caught my attention because it was so tangential it was never going to lead anywhere interesting.

The next one is key, so please read it in its entirety:


Monkey comes back to the thread after a break only to find more heat coming their way.

In my chat with Flux, I compared this directly to Monkey's post about how we couldn't possibly find anything by looking through Faddy's posts in MafiEra. It's right at the bottom at the uncanny valley in terms of how blatant it is, to the point where I'd probably handwave this away (like I eventually did in MafiEra) as something scum would never do, if I hadn't already experienced the aforementioned MafiEra post.

To sum it up, paragraph by paragraph:

"Do you really think Stu and I would be caught so easily as scum?"
"Sorian's reason for scumreading me isn't real. Do better."
"Fanto's reason for scumreading me is lazy. Do better."
"Take your votes off of us and move them elsewhere, and then maybe come back to us if you really need to. Also, you'll regret losing us."

She'd later repeat the same "Scum wouldn't do this" argument, as would Stu - multiple times.

Monkey then started agreeing with Stu's woe-is-me defeatist posts, like the "If I change, then you'll lynch me for having changed" one. (In this same post, she does what I felt was a light attempt at pocketing Flux after he mentioned not liking the train against herself/Stu.)

The "Look elsewhere" spiel would also be repeated. (In the same post, she tried to dismiss her Sorian/B-Dubs vote, even though she argued for it beyond when the vote expired.)


This post is another doozy, full of very bad lines.

- She tries to paint all the votes against them as "arbitrary".
- Spells out why she and Stu would be that frustrated if they were scum in the "We are not a D1 lynch" line.
- Calls Geno out, but refuses to outright call him scum.
- Claims that people who were voting for them "haven't done shit since early in the phase" (not really a fair criticism when considering what she and Stu did that phase.)
- And finally ends with some "Don't forget this when I'm dead" faux-drama.

This far into the phase, she doubles down on the "What makes Sorian/B-Dubs town?" argument.

Then it's back to "When I'm dead" drama.


And back once again back to Sorian as well, which is something she, as pointed above, claimed was a vote that had "only lasted 4 minutes", when in truth is the extent of her work during that phase. She stuck with that throughout the entire day, while chastising others for not putting in the work where she wanted them to.

But then... their train deflated.

Suddenly


"There wasn't actually momentum" behind the train against them.

I was diplomatic over the misuse of the "momentum" word when going back and forth with her over this at the time, but when reading through back through her posts overnight, this part really didn't make much sense.


She was trying to downplay how nervous they were over the heat they were getting.

No matter how you look at it, there was momentum behind their train - Monkey's and Stu's own demeanor and posts are proof of that. One moment, both were being dramatic about what we should do after they were lynched, and about how the people voting for them were being "lazy" or that they "hadn't done shit". The next, when they were not in immediate danger anymore, she tried to play it cool.

Overall, her entire phase doesn't sit right with me. Basically all of her effort throughout the phase was invested in trying to make people look the other way from her boat, and the closest thing she had to show in terms of scumhunting was "What makes B-Dubs/Sorian town?", which was born out of a meme vote but somehow lingered in her discourse over the entire phase.


---

Once again - not caught up, and won't be until tonight. I'd be more confident in a vote here if I didn't have my doubts regarding Sorian as well, and I would be surprised if they all turned out to be scummates. So I really wanna figure this one out.

Also, I didn't revise this post, so fingers crossed it won't completely break down in a mess of Terraforce'd tags (<3).
You mention the train on them deflating but don't really go into much detail. What do you make of that in relation to your scumread of Dr. Stu?
 

Fanto

Is this tag ok?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,863
Where have all the votes been this phase by the way? 24/30 people not voting? That seems like a lot.
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
32,776
Where have all the votes been this phase by the way? 24/30 people not voting? That seems like a lot.
There's a huge pool of people and everyone is linked, so it's not enough to just be able to read one person you have to do both members of a team. That makes it harder because one person might seem scummy while the other seems towny.
 

Fanto

Is this tag ok?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,863
There's a huge pool of people and everyone is linked, so it's not enough to just be able to read one person you have to do both members of a team. That makes it harder because one person might seem scummy while the other seems towny.
This is rather true for me so far, as evidenced by my read list. I feel more confident leaning town/scum on the pairs that I feel I have a decent read on both, more often than not.

However, I still feel that people should be getting some votes out there, I'll always advocate for voting early and often in the first few days especially. Calling out scummy behavior with a vote is usually better than doing it without a vote in my experience.
 

CoolestSpot

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,325
I just had a weird totally self-centered thought. I wonder if scum killed Fran because he called me out for my weird secret partner comment and they were hoping someone would jump on that with all the talk of maybe lynching one day at some point kind of. #toiletthoughts

...how does thatmean sense. What.
 

rac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,119
You were so off my radar for your minimal contributions before, but this post alone gives you some points from me. Not so much as who you voted because I don't agree with your vote and I'm definitely not voting for our claimed cop at this point in the game, but it's a bold vote, and you seem to stick to your own convictions regardless of how silly it may seem. I don't see scum making a vote like this.

well, thanks i guess
 

CoolestSpot

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,325
Give me a break. I e already explained to you multiple times that I didn't want to put them at risk from a night kill. You're being obtuse if you think green checks and confirmed town doesn't mean anything important to game statistics and logistics. The more confirmed town there are, the more likely it is that we find scum, so it's kind of imperative that scum get rid of the ASAP.

I wasn't able to communicate with malus much during the whole process so I didn't want to say anything without working with him first, too. If I was able to talk to him during the night we would have worked out the best way to reveal the check, but that wasn't the case. He made the call on his own to tell the thread before we were able to talk about it and I respect that.
Fyi from every time I've seen you talk about this role bs its the most "DON'T ASK ME, THEY'RE TOWN, SO ITS FOR THE GREATER GOOODDD"

Like please sis, try again, return to sender, write up some better cover up.
 

CoolestSpot

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,325
Kill someone to frame someone, literally textbook kill if you have nothing else to go on. Is that the case here? Probably not. Fun thought? Absolutely.
...is this desperate self saving here with wild claims to see if people buy into it or waste time discussing it? Cause I get those vibes love, and I not feeling the jam.
 

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,263
VOTE: CoolestSpot

CoolestSpot Z-Beat

Early on I expressed concern over Z-Beat and generally felt like Coolest was just a bucket of weird that I didn't have many thoughts on. As this day has progressed though I'm actually getting bad vibes from Coolest now as well. Both D1 and D2 he's dangled the idea of him putting in more effort and both times so far he hasn't produced. Today all he has done is argue with Geno while simultaneously stating he believes Geno to be town - that doesn't seem like a particularly good use of time. Z-Beat has also continued to not fill me with confidence. He's basically on cruise control at this point. I feel like they've managed to contribute extremely little between the both of them despite the good chunk of posts they have overall.

I'd also like to shoutout TheChuggernaut as his read on this boat is continuing to stick with me. I did an ISO of him as well and his D2 hasn't been great thus far. I'd like to see some updated thoughts post-green check reveal to get a better feel for where he stands. As is, the weird back and forth about Coolest continues to seem weird. It reads like someone that wants to prop up a teammate while leaving themselves room to flip should things turn against them:

As of now, I'm town reading the CoolestBeat team. That didn't really seem like the usual gambit from Coolest so I'm kind of inclined to believe him. That team didn't really gain anything by bringing up the letter. He could still be scum while doing something like that, but as of now I won't be voting there.
That's kind of what I'm saying. He could be faking it, but his reaction to it just seemed genuine to me. Obviously he still could be scum, but at this moment I don't think he is.
I guess it's kind of more then just that. He's playing more how I'm used to him playing today. He spent most of yesterday just kind of shit posting, and while he hasn't done much there's been a few post here that's made me think he's engaged. And again, I'm not saying he's town. That's a place where I would revisit depending on how the game goes, but for now that team is lower on the list of teams I would vote for then they were previously.
Coolest and Beat: I've gone over them already. Leaning town.
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
32,776
This is rather true for me so far, as evidenced by my read list. I feel more confident leaning town/scum on the pairs that I feel I have a decent read on both, more often than not.

However, I still feel that people should be getting some votes out there, I'll always advocate for voting early and often in the first few days especially. Calling out scummy behavior with a vote is usually better than doing it without a vote in my experience.
The problem there is people like to read a lot into votes the next day, especially if it was on a mislynch.

The issue with today, going back through what's been said, Sorian vs Monkey's team takes up a lot of air and discussion.

Right this second, I feel like Bae has a huge amount of information and hasn't really told us much of it. We know broadstrokes of what happened last night, but why is she so sure that the people that kidnapped her are town? There must be some reason for it that we aren't aware of. This is the thing that keeps sticking with me, is it just based off a D1 read or did they say something to convince her of it because if it was me I'd be 50/50 at best here. Especially given the use of the power did not allow her to communicate with her partner during the night phase. That's a huge negative, especially for a cop role (which she breadcrumbed the day before). While she says she's ok with where they wound up checking, there is always the possibility, that after a discussion, they might have decided on someone else.
 

CoolestSpot

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,325
VOTE: CoolestSpot

CoolestSpot Z-Beat

Early on I expressed concern over Z-Beat and generally felt like Coolest was just a bucket of weird that I didn't have many thoughts on. As this day has progressed though I'm actually getting bad vibes from Coolest now as well. Both D1 and D2 he's dangled the idea of him putting in more effort and both times so far he hasn't produced. Today all he has done is argue with Geno while simultaneously stating he believes Geno to be town - that doesn't seem like a particularly good use of time. Z-Beat has also continued to not fill me with confidence. He's basically on cruise control at this point. I feel like they've managed to contribute extremely little between the both of them despite the good chunk of posts they have overall.

I'd also like to shoutout TheChuggernaut as his read on this boat is continuing to stick with me. I did an ISO of him as well and his D2 hasn't been great thus far. I'd like to see some updated thoughts post-green check reveal to get a better feel for where he stands. As is, the weird back and forth about Coolest continues to seem weird. It reads like someone that wants to prop up a teammate while leaving themselves room to flip should things turn against them:
Legit been busy with summer life and transitioning into new jobs, but I get how that looks. Again I am going to uphold my promise of late night sleuthing today.

I think calling the Geno thing as point againist me is weird, sure I was being dick and tone policing, but both of us keep saying "now we can drop it" and going at each other's neck to not be one without last word. It was a big fuck up, but even we realized it was wasting town time nearing the end.
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
32,776
The problem there is people like to read a lot into votes the next day, especially if it was on a mislynch.

The issue with today, going back through what's been said, Sorian vs Monkey's team takes up a lot of air and discussion.

Right this second, I feel like Bae has a huge amount of information and hasn't really told us much of it. We know broadstrokes of what happened last night, but why is she so sure that the people that kidnapped her are town? There must be some reason for it that we aren't aware of. This is the thing that keeps sticking with me, is it just based off a D1 read or did they say something to convince her of it because if it was me I'd be 50/50 at best here. Especially given the use of the power did not allow her to communicate with her partner during the night phase. That's a huge negative, especially for a cop role (which she breadcrumbed the day before). While she says she's ok with where they wound up checking, there is always the possibility, that after a discussion, they might have decided on someone else.
I will add, I'm not saying I want her to tell us who it is, but that I want to know why she's so confident they are town.
 

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,263
Legit been busy with summer life and transitioning into new jobs, but I get how that looks. Again I am going to uphold my promise of late night sleuthing today.

I think calling the Geno thing as point againist me is weird, sure I was being dick and tone policing, but both of us keep saying "now we can drop it" and going at each other's neck to not be one without last word. It was a big fuck up, but even we realized it was wasting town time nearing the end.
It's not that it happened more that it's the only relevant thing you've done all phase so far and in and of itself it wasn't actually that relevant or beneficial.
 

CoolestSpot

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,325
Z-Beat I recall being similar player to me and is very much terrible at contributing in early game as he cant read with multiple deaths laid out, but hey, thats the shittest defense one can give so eh.

Sorry love.
 

Z-Beat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,849
Early on I expressed concern over Z-Beat and generally felt like Coolest was just a bucket of weird that I didn't have many thoughts on. As this day has progressed though I'm actually getting bad vibes from Coolest now as well. Both D1 and D2 he's dangled the idea of him putting in more effort and both times so far he hasn't produced. Today all he has done is argue with Geno while simultaneously stating he believes Geno to be town - that doesn't seem like a particularly good use of time. Z-Beat has also continued to not fill me with confidence. He's basically on cruise control at this point. I feel like they've managed to contribute extremely little between the both of them despite the good chunk of posts they have overall.
For an argument about not enough being there this is a very roundabout way of saying "I need more"
 

CoolestSpot

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,325
It's not that it happened more that it's the only relevant thing you've done all phase so far and in and of itself it wasn't actually that relevant or beneficial.
Nah I get that, but still, its odd for me to see you pick a group of people who if anything you want more from and could ask questions of and instead go "See they arent doing much but a human mistake, gee, they scum??". Its even weirder cause I said when I get back I'm going to do reada into you since you felt off in your posts, which makes me immeditally think you don't want me digging.