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Jucksalbe

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
739
uSE4iho.png


I often saw this game described as "Sailor Moon: The RPG", which I guess is an apt description to a point. Probably a bit too flattering, though. It does have transforming "magical girls" accompanied by very similar transformation scenes (that you thankfully don't have to watch every time), so the inspiration is pretty clear here. But other than that it's mostly a "high school simulation" game with a story that's more or less about people's strong emotions during puberty and friendships and such.

It takes its cues from Persona in a way, in that you have a kind of S-Link feature. You can invite your friends to dates, but with no romance options (it is, of course, an all-girls high school). With an increased friendship level you get to level up your character (there are no traditional experience points) and you can get "fragments" with which you can augment your skills. The scenes are your average blah-blah about going shopping or whatever else places they visit. There's no real characterization happening here, most characters hardly ever evolve beyond their own quirky characteristic.

Even aside from those dates, there's a lot on focus on interacting with your friends. You can use your smartphone to talk to everyone in a messaging application that look kinda like LINE. There's a blog that retells the recent story (run by a friend) and some mini games. What's kinda interesting is that everything that happens on your phone is completely pointless as far as the game itself is concerned. You don't "get" anything out of it, other than the conversation or the mini games themselves. There is, for example, a sort of hide & seek kinda game, where one of your friends gives you hints on where to find her plush bears she hid in the school. You can go out and look for them, but you can't pick them up or interact with them in any way, they are just there. In video games you usually expect rewards for everything you do, so I saw a lot of confused people about these aspects of the game and I have to admit I also looked online if there's any "real" point to it all, but in the end it's fine to have it like that, it's just unusual. The monster raising mini game gives you a trophy, though, so I guess there's that.

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Combat happens in a separate "realm". You can go there whenever someone's emotion run amok and it's here that you're transforming into your "magical girl" persona. Battles are your typical Gust style turn-based system. That means everyone is on a timeline and whoever gets to the center, gets to act. You can push back enemies to delay your turn and, kinda like in the Atelier games, you have some skills that you can put onto the timeline that get activated on their own. There's nothing really special to it, it works well, but overall the game is rather easy, so you rarely have to play with status effects or pay much attention to resistances and stuff like that. Later on you get some extra skills you can activate at any time that allow you to act faster or defend, those drain a special gauge. You can also call in your NPC friends to help you in battle, but this is only possible in boss battles.

Skills are earned by leveling up your character and each skill allows you to equip a certain number of fragments that can enhance your skill or character. You can improve these fragments through a simple crafting system which is where items come into play. There's no money or shops (apart from the school cafeteria) in this game, so you have to get all your items from enemies, gathering or as quest rewards, which can be a bit tedious since you don't always have access to every area, but overall it adds a little more purpose to the whole game, so it's very welcome. Technically you can also use items (I think!?), but it seems pointless to do so, you hardly ever even need your support skills.
So, basically, your usual game flow, once the game gets properly going (which takes a while), is this: You get some story part which usually involves going through a dungeon and collecting some stuff and a boss fight. Then you go back to school and have "free time", here you can do sidequests, which either involve crafting certain items or going through a dungeon and killing certain enemies or collecting certain things, or you can work on your friendships. You get points for doing sidequests and once you reach enough points you have the option to advance the story, if you want. It all works well enough, sadly, the writing isn't really good enough to keep you interested in these characters, so hopefully you get enjoyment just out of improving your stats. It is a rather repetitive game, but that's okay. It is a low budget game after all and it shows. There are only very few different enemy types which each have about four or fives variations that all look very similar. There seem to be only a handful of dungeon layouts that repeat over and over during your quest. So you'll be seeing a lot of the same. So there's a lot of repetition in every aspect of the game, which means your enjoyment highly depends on your tolerance of such things. It kinda reminded me of the (older) Neptunia games in that regard.

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It can be a very beautiful game, though. Some of the dungeon areas look really nice and the character models are pretty good as well. But the school looks rather bland, but it has some really nice lighting. Animation's are rather bad which along with the occasional stutter makes it all feel a bit stiff, but that's more or less common for these kinds of games, especially Gust games. Not like Atelier handles it much better.
The music is good, great even at points. The standard background music is so calm, though, that it's really making you tired. The standard battle music, however, is excellent, and loud enough to wake you up again. There is a bit too much dubstep in this soundtrack and overall the music just isn't used very well in the game with some very weird transitions especially during boss battles, but overall the music is certainly one of the stronger parts of this game.
Some last things, before I get to that thread title. I like how all the skill names are themed to the character, one character has fruit based attack names, the other one has animal based ones. The main character's skill names are all based on ballet (I assume, don't know much about ballet) and in French. Similarly all the bosses' attacks are in German (they even bothered to use umlauts!), though sometimes I get the feeling the translator didn't quite catch what they were going for here, since some of the names make no sense and actual German grammar is non-existent. But overall the translation is surprisingly good and thankfully there are no honorifics here. But there are lots and lots of typos, some really painful ones, and many missing or doubled words. It seems there just wasn't enough budget to check the script properly. And, as usual for Gust, the credits roll is really nice.


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So then, let's get to the creepy part. Somehow this game thought it would be fine to downright exploit these girls. Gust has its history with, let's say, sexually themed games. Nights of Azure especially had some rather risky costumes and, well, over-sized proportions. Which I guess, is okay, a bit weird, but properly harmless. At least you don't have to rub anyone or worse.
Blue Reflection has its very own kind of creepiness and it's arguably much much worse than anything Nights of Azure ever did, it's probably more in the tradition of some of the more problematic scenes of the Arland series. The game does its best to make you feel like you're a voyeur stalking around these girls. There are low angle camera shots every time they see a chance, you get to see these (high school) girls when they are changing clothes, when they're in the shower. There are very obviously placed camera shots when they are swimming, you get to watch the main character taking a bath and there are special scenes just so you can watch every character in the rain in their drenched (and see-through) white school uniforms. Look under that NSFW spoiler tag above for a small selection of all this. The game is just full of this kinda of stuff. It's sickening and enough reason to just downright avoid this game. There's worse on the market, even on consoles (and especially, but not only, the Vita), but that's hardly any excuse.

So, either someone on the staff has a severe problem that desperately needs therapy or the Japanese (niche) gaming market is twisted beyond repair by now. Either way, this is not okay.

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There's potential for a good sequel here, and from what I've read they are already considering one, but from how these things usually work I doubt they remove or even reduce all the creepy stuff which is a shame, because there is potential in the premise of the series.
 

Dylan

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,260
Can we stop with the predatory school-girl fantasies in video games please. I don't care if it's culturally-whatever. Fuck these games.
 

SephLuis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,343
I liked the game after a while. The main character story grew with me, but it took a while.
The battle system got much interesting after awhile, but the game is too easy to properly use it.
The OST was amazing. Really likes that one.

The NSFW side bothered me very little while playing. It feels so completely disconected to the game, it's weird.
You get those weird shots that make more difficult to see the actual characters you talking to.
 

Joltik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,762
It's so weird. At first glance and for the first half of the OP's analysis made it sound like it's targeted to a mainly female audience or anyone who's into the magical girl genre. This makes it seems interesting despite the low budget of the title.

But then you read the creepy creepy second half and then you go "oh" and shake your head disappovingly.
 

Eolz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,601
FR
It's a meh atelier game with a fantastic OST. Also really weird tones yeah.
A bit like NoA to NoA2, it's a shame they doubled down on the fanservice when it wasn't needed at all nor what people were looking for.
 

Zing

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,771
Well, at first I was disappointed by the replies here, but then I noticed that the OP asked for trouble.

"Creepy" "sickening" "desperately needs therapy"

Nothing personal, but seriously, fuck off with this talk. It doesn't belong here. We don't need insults or attacks on people who enjoy the game, or the game designers. This is as toxic as it gets.

"Predatory"... for fucks sake.
 

SenseiX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,782
Lol I bought the game solely for the beautiful box art
478221-blue-reflection-playstation-4-front-cover.jpg


Also apparently they did a collaboration DLC with FFXV which we baka gaijins [ばかがいじん] did not get.
dlc_01_zoom47.jpg

dlc_01_img65.jpg
 

Dylan

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,260
Well, at first I was disappointed by the replies here, but then I noticed that the OP asked for trouble.

"Creepy" "sickening" "desperately needs therapy"

Nothing personal, but seriously, fuck off with this talk. It doesn't belong here. We don't need insults or attacks on people who enjoy the game, or the game designers. This is as toxic as it gets.

"Predatory"... for fucks sake.

You're right, this does nothing to perpetuate the normalization of adult men treating underaged women as sex objects. And we definitely don't see these seeds bubbling up into horrible behaviour in men in our current society. We definitely haven't had any recent examples of reaping what we sow. We haven't just now realized as a society that a male-dominated culture produces things that actively make women's lives harder to live. You playing this game is definitely worth younger men growing up thinking this is OK and making life harder for my daughter and yours.

These cartoon characters are very obviously being depicted as "just old enough" for a reason. The game could have easily been made without that shit.

What a brave stance you've taken, defending it. Kudos.
 

Blade24070

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,002
The creepy pedo shit hampered my enjoyment. It was kind of funny cuz every time my boyfriend walked into the room, there would be another creepy wet shirt or shower scene and he would ask wtf kind of game I'm playing lmao.

But the music is incredible. The bosses looked great and imposing. Battle system was fun enough imo. I also liked how the main character was not a regular MC magical girl, she wasn't all "let's be friends," she regularly told the other girls to leave her the fuck alone.

But yeah the pedo shit is not only creepy and weird, it completely undermines the point of this game which is about teenage female relationships. All I can say is ugh Japan.

And again, amazing music! Better than a lot of more well known and high budget RPGs, imo.
 

Dylan

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,260
Also the notion that the discussion that was literally in the OP doesn't belong in this thread is just....
 

Htown

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,319
Well, at first I was disappointed by the replies here, but then I noticed that the OP asked for trouble.

"Creepy" "sickening" "desperately needs therapy"

Nothing personal, but seriously, fuck off with this talk. It doesn't belong here. We don't need insults or attacks on people who enjoy the game, or the game designers. This is as toxic as it gets.

"Predatory"... for fucks sake.
Don't be mad because it's true.
 
Oct 25, 2017
56,663
This title disappointed me on so many levels it could've Been the female version of persona in a way(not to say persona isn't for women btw). They had the school vibe they had the other world vibe, turn based, the even had special links and events with characters that helped with combat. Alas gust gonna gust
 
OP
OP
Jucksalbe

Jucksalbe

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
739
Well, at first I was disappointed by the replies here, but then I noticed that the OP asked for trouble.

"Creepy" "sickening" "desperately needs therapy"

Nothing personal, but seriously, fuck off with this talk. It doesn't belong here. We don't need insults or attacks on people who enjoy the game, or the game designers. This is as toxic as it gets.

Nothing personal, indeed. I didn't exactly "ask for trouble", but this was one aspect of the game that especially stood out for me and it certainly belongs in the discussion about this game. "Creepy" and "sickening" are descriptions this game definitely deserves. The other one I won't fight about. I didn't insult anyone that enjoys this game, there's many reasons to enjoy it and I think I also mention some positive aspects. If you think it's okay to present young girls like this, then this is something you might want to think about, though.
 

FinFunnels

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,610
Seattle
I really wanted to play this game and I keep forgetting that it came out. I'm mainly posting in this thread so that the notifications will remind me to buy it :P
 

Tohsaka

Member
Nov 17, 2017
6,794
The game only got a T rating, so obviously the ESRB didn't think it was that much of a problem. That aside, if they do a sequel the game really needs to have a point to the combat system. The fact that you don't level up or anything through it made the battles feel pointless aside from doing the crappy sidequests that were very samey. More locations outside the school to visit would be nice, too.
 

David

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,002
Neo Yokio
I like the game, had good music and the girls were really cute, especially the MC.

Wasn't a fan of the doll aesthetics at first but then it grew on me.

Hoping for a BR2 with more budget pls
 

Rezon

Member
Oct 28, 2017
190
I actually really enjoyed this game, fantastic OST and interesting story. Combat got a bit repetitive and dungeons were pretty bland.

I gave it a 3/5 and would be down for a sequel.
 
Feb 7, 2018
30
User Banned (1 Month): Defending sexualization of underage characters, dismissing criticism of underage sexualization.
If this were instead targeted at people who are attracted to men, and showed similarly titillating views of partially dressed male characters (even *gasp* completely bare torsos), would you be equally outraged about it?
 

Kudo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,881
...
What a brave stance you've taken, defending it. Kudos.
And I answer.

It's definitely one of the more underrated JRPGs, I haven't finished it yet but the story is interesting kinda "slice-of-lifeish" even with a twist, character models look awesome and the OST... no words can describe how good it is.
I hope it gets sequel announced, gotta finish this one in time for that.
 

Ryutaryi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,070
I saw this game on the Golden Week PSN sale and heard some good things from people online about it. Was planning on picking it up since it seemed unique, even for a game in a Japanese high school setting, but oh boy the sexualization of high school girls and tropey anime scenes as a result of that has steered me far, far away and your thread helped me realize just how bad it was. The fact that it's becoming harder to find JRPGs without this or generic anime tropes infesting them is disappointing, that or I've been looking in the wrong places.
 

SephLuis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,343
this was one aspect of the game that especially stood out for me and it certainly belongs in the discussion about this game. [/QUOTE

I do agree that it's a facet of the game, but it's such an odd one.
The images are from the game, but the game itself almost never give any sexual context despise what it shows.
Hinako is often thinking about what to do while taking a bath, for example. Which, in turn, puts into question why Gust even bothered with such things at all.
 

Htown

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,319
So tempted to do avatar quoting right now.

If this were instead targeted at people who are attracted to men, and showed similarly titillating views of partially dressed male characters (even *gasp* completely bare torsos), would you be equally outraged about it?
Depends. Would they also be boys of the same age?

Oh, and also would you alter the entire context all of history and culture so that the positions of men and women were reversed regarding sexualization and gender issues?
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
The DLC is bad too - http://social.gust.co.jp/gakkou/dlc_01.html (Scroll down)

Courtesy of remembering this game name and it having a topic on GAF - https://www./threads/the-jrpg-blue-...rage-dlc-underage-girls-in-swimsuits.1408114/

"Amir0x GOTY" seems like an appropriate comment when you're doing shower scenes, with nudity, of young teens (that could be below the age of consent in your country, such as 15 is below the UK's 16) and you're probably in your mid 20's or 30's (if not older).

But as always

eUG7Sgl.gif
 

Blade24070

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,002
If this were instead targeted at people who are attracted to men, and showed similarly titillating views of partially dressed male characters (even *gasp* completely bare torsos), would you be equally outraged about it?

uh if they were showing 15 year old boys then yes it would be creepy. But you know damn well female vs male sexualization ain't remotely close to equal (because female sexualization is far more prevalent and has been forever).
 

Philippo

Developer
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
7,913
Yeah i was interested in this because magical girl x jrpg sounds appealing to me even if im not at all into the genre, and graphically looks interesting, but that creepyiness is a huge turn off.
 

SephLuis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,343
Yeah i was interested in this because magical girl x jrpg sounds appealing to me even if im not at all into the genre, and graphically looks interesting, but that creepyiness is a huge turn off.

I would say to give the game a chance if you manage to rent it or find it for cheap.
As I mentioned before, the game doesn't give context for that creepyiness so it's very, very easy to ignore it (because the game itself does the same).
 

ubercheez

Member
Oct 27, 2017
361
It saddens me that one of the best soundtracks of last year got attached to such an obscure game.

 
OP
OP
Jucksalbe

Jucksalbe

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
739
do agree that it's a facet of the game, but it's such an odd one.
The images are from the game, but the game itself almost never give any sexual context despise what it shows.
Hinako is often thinking about what to do while taking a bath, for example. Which, in turn, puts into question why Gust even bothered with such things at all.

It's true that it's not a "sexual" game for the most part, that's why I called it voyeuristic. But this kinda stuff is everywhere in the game, it's not like I had to look around much for most of those pictures. And of course, there are the shower scenes and that one groping scene which do have sexual context. I didn't find it "easy to ignore" as you wrote in another post as it's happening constantly.
 

Flon

Is Here to Kill Chaos
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,120
I am a fan of GUST and Atelier remains my favourite series so I bought BLUE REFLECTION without much knowledge of it other than it had Sailor Moon influences. I'd consider it one of the bigger disappointments of 2017.

I didn't find the gameplay loop to be satisfactory enough. I spent the majority of the game fulfilling specific but irrelevent tasks to manually progress the plot, yet the story and character building remained static for far too long. The closest comparison I have is Atelier Shallie's progression system, but that game handled it well.

It definitely did feel like it was created on a strict budget. Lots of aspects are not fleshed out at all and battles were pointless unless you were going for 100%. The character animations felt delayed, menu navigation was far too slow and battles felt like they were playing at 0.8x speed.

And yes, often the voyeuristic camera cuts and angles just made each scene incoherent in its direction and difficult to follow. I was really burned out on the plot and many of the characters were hard to take seriously with the directing the game often took.
 
Last edited:

v1perz53

Member
Oct 25, 2017
276
You're right, this does nothing to perpetuate the normalization of adult men treating underaged women as sex objects. And we definitely don't see these seeds bubbling up into horrible behaviour in men in our current society. We definitely haven't had any recent examples of reaping what we sow. We haven't just now realized as a society that a male-dominated culture produces things that actively make women's lives harder to live. You playing this game is definitely worth younger men growing up thinking this is OK and making life harder for my daughter and yours.

These cartoon characters are very obviously being depicted as "just old enough" for a reason. The game could have easily been made without that shit.

What a brave stance you've taken, defending it. Kudos.

While I don't agree with games including stuff like this in the first place, I'm not sure I like the way you're going about your stance against it. For years in the video game industry we have been fighting the notion that "violent video games cause violence, like mass shootings etc", and honestly your line of thinking reads a lot like that does. I think a game like this does no more to "perpetuate the normalization of adult men treating underaged women as sex objects" as, to quote the classic example, Nathan Drake killing hundreds of random people in an Uncharted game promotes the normalization of murder and gun violence. And similarly, we try so hard to argue that the trend of mass shootings recently are not "these seeds bubbling up into horrible behavior in our current society".

So while I 100% agree with the idea that this is gross and certainly isn't necessary to show up as frequently as it does in (especially japanese based) games, I also think we need to be very careful with arguments like this because it exactly flies in the face of what we've been trying to say for years in other examples.
 
Feb 7, 2018
30
uh if they were showing 15 year old boys then yes it would be creepy. But you know damn well female vs male sexualization ain't remotely close to equal (because female sexualization is far more prevalent and has been forever).

If sexualization is bad, it's bad. It doesn't matter how common it is, or what the proportion between the sexes is.

This is like arguing that some kind of racist comments are ok because it's less common to insult that particular race.
 

SephLuis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,343
It's true that it's not a "sexual" game for the most part, that's why I called it voyeuristic. But this kinda stuff is everywhere in the game, it's not like I had to look around much for most of those pictures. And of course, there are the shower scenes and that one groping scene which do have sexual context. I didn't find it "easy to ignore" as you wrote in another post as it's happening constantly.

I played this when it launched and I couldn't remember the groping scene, thus why I wrote almost never gives any sexual context.
At first I was also taken aback asking why they had the work to do this and, eventually, it just faded away in my overall experience of the game.
Even the title screen, as it gets with more character faces as you progress, made a bigger impact in me than those.
 

IwazaruK7

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,155
The game does its best to make you feel like you're a voyeur stalking around these girls. There are low angle camera shots every time they see a chance, you get to see these (high school) girls when they are changing clothes, when they're in the shower. There are very obviously placed camera shots when they are swimming, you get to watch the main character taking a bath and there are special scenes just so you can watch every character in the rain in their drenched (and see-through) white school uniforms. Look under that NSFW spoiler tag above for a small selection of all this.

While it's obviously like you just said - pretty easy to guess at which demographics they aim at (i guess, 60% = "creepy adult otakus", as you say, and 30% = actual teenage boys, remember that game is 15+ rated in Japan, and who havent dreamed about their beautiful classmates in high school when hormones strike hard brains, hahahaha, and 10% for Magical Girl culture female enthusiasts (?) maybe)...

...i only wanted to add that it's not scenes themselve, but how they show it, which is objectification/fan-service/"sex sells"/"forbidden fruit"/whatever they planned. I mean, abstractly, nothing wrong with shower, clothing change, etc. as this is a part of life, and of course they can be narrative tools (i'm sure something very important between girl friends emotionally could happen during such "slice of life" events*) or artistic tools; in movies they did it right several times (guess, thanks to women directors? or just talented artists who had taste), but they fail to do it in games for some reason, instead making at a fan servive tool.

*i think Life is Strange managed to do scene in pool very well, showing in well mannered way how Max and Chloe were spending casually time together, being geniunely happy and all, etc. etc., without making it creepy, no. But, perhaps, very few care about aesthetical side of "usual life", about calmness in everyday routine, and few are able to behold, contemplate, meditate at beauty of life itself, our world and people.... Ah, we guess what, dreamy ethereal stuff "doesnt sell", so we gonna make it perverted and lewd, rrrright? Japanese marketing 101.

So i say, abstractly nothing wrong with ideas of such scenes in media, the problem is how they are shown to audience. It's not nudity or delicate moment or something which is creepy

(i dont know, people of this thread, what gender and from what generations you are, but i surely know there is some beautiful aesthetics which is loved by modern young women, which may involve even questionable in your or our eyes imaginery, but not for them - for them there is something they can relate to, something that inspire them and make them happier.. damn i cant explain it better, but you may guess what i mean if you have female friends who often post and repost stuff like that in tumblr or instagram or something - anyway, let's dream they would one day join game developers and user their vision in nice way. I believe they could teach us all to something,),

but greedy usage of it in objectifying way as a tool to sell it to, you know whom.

p.s.
Yeah, and music is very beautiful.
 
OP
OP
Jucksalbe

Jucksalbe

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
739
I played this when it launched and I couldn't remember the groping scene, thus why I wrote almost never gives any sexual context.
At first I was also taken aback asking why they had the work to do this and, eventually, it just faded away in my overall experience of the game.
Even the title screen, as it gets with more character faces as you progress, made a bigger impact in me than those.
Oh yeah, that changing title screen is nice. Kinda like in that game from your avatar.
The groping scene is thankfully not part of the story, but one that happens as one of those scenes you get when leveling your friendship value with one of the girls, so if you didn't go for 100%, you might not even have seen it.
 

Briarios

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,238
Other than the use of the male gaze, there is nothing sexual in the game except what people bring with them ... at least as far as story content. I was disheartened by the camera and how voyeuristic is could be - but I really enjoyed the game, the combat, the music, and the melancholy story. I'd be in for a sequel.
 

Dylan

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,260
While I don't agree with games including stuff like this in the first place, I'm not sure I like the way you're going about your stance against it. For years in the video game industry we have been fighting the notion that "violent video games cause violence, like mass shootings etc", and honestly your line of thinking reads a lot like that does. I think a game like this does no more to "perpetuate the normalization of adult men treating underaged women as sex objects" as, to quote the classic example, Nathan Drake killing hundreds of random people in an Uncharted game promotes the normalization of murder and gun violence. And similarly, we try so hard to argue that the trend of mass shootings recently are not "these seeds bubbling up into horrible behavior in our current society".

So while I 100% agree with the idea that this is gross and certainly isn't necessary to show up as frequently as it does in (especially japanese based) games, I also think we need to be very careful with arguments like this because it exactly flies in the face of what we've been trying to say for years in other examples.

I used to agree with what you just said, but in 2018, we do have a problem with men not understanding that leering at young girls is bad.

I want to live in a world where you can make a racist game and everyone just shrugs it off because it doesn't actually matter.
I want to live in a world where you can make a sexist game and everyone just shrugs it off because it doesn't actually matter.

But we live in the real world, these things do matter, and in my opinion, my ability to enjoy these games isn't worth anyone's daughter being leered at the way the camera does in these types of games. Even the Persona games, which I love, are guilty of this.

I think it's time for consumers to stand up and tell developers that we don't want this in our games anymore. The world grew up, now it's their turn.

Btw, I know it's anathema to even entertain the idea on this forum, but I think at some point we are going to have to face the fact that we might have been wrong about the guns, too.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
Other than the use of the male gaze, there is nothing sexual in the game except what people bring with them ... at least as far as story content. I was disheartened by the camera and how voyeuristic is could be - but I really enjoyed the game, the combat, the music, and the melancholy story. I'd be in for a sequel.

I think that's pushing it a bit





And this exists because of course there has to be what appears to be a changing room feature like this - https://youtu.be/s21BD3F2iNo
 

Dylan

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,260
It's as if people don't understand that camera direction is as much a part of the scene as is the dialogue. The camera doesn't just appear out of nowhere.

Imagine if you played through Beyond: Two Souls, and the camera followed the female characters ass and tits throughout the story. It matters.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,784
The DLC is bad too - http://social.gust.co.jp/gakkou/dlc_01.html (Scroll down)

Courtesy of remembering this game name and it having a topic on GAF - https://www./threads/the-jrpg-blue-...rage-dlc-underage-girls-in-swimsuits.1408114/

"Amir0x GOTY" seems like an appropriate comment when you're doing shower scenes, with nudity, of young teens (that could be below the age of consent in your country, such as 15 is below the UK's 16) and you're probably in your mid 20's or 30's (if not older).

But as always

eUG7Sgl.gif

Heh, Amirox hated anime fanservice more than anyone.

Imagine if you played through Beyond: Two Souls, and the camera followed the female characters ass and tits throughout the story.

If nothing else, it would probably be less boring. Would be a hilarious "the fuck is this?" group game as opposed to what we got.
 

Deleted member 888

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Oct 25, 2017
14,361
Heh, Amirox hated anime fanservice more than anyone.

I would draw a distinction between fan service and underage girls (not referencing Amir0x here). Apparently, there are 15-year-olds in this. That's underage in most countries.

"Fan service" of of-age characters can be annoying at times, but at worst it's simply sexual pandering. Ymmv on how much of it you're happy to deal with.

"Fan-service" of minors is not something that should ever just be attributed as... fan service. It should be called what it is and called out.
 

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,864
I really wanted to like this game but Gust didn't want to be earnest in its high school setting and tried to be pandering at every level, even adding a "wet" texture model to the girls. I noped out even though I liked what I played. This and my game kept crashing anway
 
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Jucksalbe

Jucksalbe

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Oct 27, 2017
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To give some context as to how these scenes happen in the game:

- The low camera shots happen in conversations throughout the story.

At the end of the day, when you're at home you the option what to do, this can mean several things:
- You can take a bath, which leads to those scenes of the character in the bath tub, here you can just "think" or "massage your leg", stuff like that
- Swimming class scenes either as part of the early story or if you choose to "stretch" to prepare for the next day. If you keep choosing "stretch" you go through scenes for each girl. This is also rewards you with permanent stat boosts for your character.
- If you "exhaust" all the girls, the stretch option leads to the shower scenes during "lunch break". Again, there's one for each girl and you get stat boosts.
- The groping scene is a one-time only scene that happens if you increase your friendship with one of the characters.
- Similarly "wet clothes" scenes happen when you go outside in the rain and have increased your friendship with each of the game. Your main character always has a drenched shirt whenever you go outside in the rain.
- The dressing room scenes happen if you happen if you choose to prepare for a school play. There's a short scene about the play that's followed by the dressing room scenes. I think they also happened in other circumstances, but not sure anymore. No stat boosts here.

You also get the option to just go to sleep at the end of the day. In that case no special scenes happens the next day. Some of the options change depending on what chapter you are in and there are also some perfectly harmless ones (like the girls getting interviewed).
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,784
I would draw a distinction between fan service and underage girls (not referencing Amir0x here). Apparently, there are 15-year-olds in this. That's underage in most countries.

"Fan service" of of-age characters can be annoying at times, but at worst it's simply sexual pandering. Ymmv on how much of it you're happy to deal with.

"Fan-service" of minors is not something that should ever just be attributed as... fan service. It should be called what it is and called out.

Okay, he hated underage fanservice more than anyone. I think it was Etrian Odyssey he was railing against at one point for that.
 
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