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Annabel

Member
Mar 22, 2019
1,677
So while we're all living the quarantine life right now, I thought it was a good time as any to clear up some of my backlog. After playing the Trials of Mana demo and REALLY enjoying it, I figured I would go back to Collection of Mana after dropping it in the middle of last year.

Why did I drop it in the first place? Well, it wasn't exactly intentional as much as it was a result of University taking priority at the time, rendering me unable to play anything that wasn't quick and dirty runs on gacha games. But there was at least one more reason I'll touch up on later. For now let's just do a quick rundown on what I think of each game so far, because yes, I still haven't finished this. In fact, I've only finished one of the games and dropped the other two for very different reasons.

Anyways...

Final Fantasy Adventure/Seiken Densetsu

latest


I guess it's no surprise that this is the only game of the three I've finished so far, it's the shortest and the first game in the series so most are likely to this one boot up I would imagine. I would say I didn't know what to expect when jumping into this game, but that'd be a lie. I was expecting this to be a really simple and rather primitive game, given it's time and the hardware it launched in and in that way, I was right. It's nothing to write home about mechanics wise, it's extremely similar to Zelda 1 with the added wrinkle of stats and the Will gauge and sometimes party members. Where I was very wrong though, is where the story went. I was 100% thinking this was gonna be a very simple and straightforward "Hero saves the princess" type of deal but hoo boy do people love to die in this game. Even the intro was a little surprising, hitting you with the revelation that you've been nothing but a slave for the Dark Lord for god knows how long. As of the ending, pretty much every notable NPC was dead, your friends are dead and the girl became the Mana Tree. All the Hero has left was his trusty Chocobo at his side.

All in all, I enjoyed this game for what it was. It's pretty janky and the only thing I'll really remember the game for was for how surprisingly bleak it got, but I can't call it bad or unejoyable.

Secret of Mana

latest


This game is where I stopped, to keep it brief I just simply wasn't enjoying it. The music is very good and the visuals are amazing... And that's it. It feels like some of the jank from FFA wasn't really addressed and I don't enjoy the fighting at all this time. It feels like even my charged moves do nothing while Magic completely destroys the game, rendering everything kind of obsolete. I can't say I'm really enjoying the narrative either, or lack of their of. Maybe I need to give it more before it clicks but for now I was fine putting this game down for good... Until...

Trials of Mana

51g2QOP1d2L._AC_.jpg


So this game is the one that re-sparked my interest in this series again (the demo of the remake, to be exact.) I haven't really looked into the marketing or trailers for the remake, I just knew that the demo had launched so I thought why not give it a shot? In short, I loved the demo so much that it inspired me to jump right into the collection again just to see what this one was like originally. And, yeah, I'm still liking it a lot, I'm loving the changes they made to the battle system and all but... I couldn't stop thinking about the remake while playing this. So I ended up putting it down before I got very far because at this point it was pretty clear to me that I'm just gonna buy the remake and play the heck out of that one instead.

So, yeah. This compilation was a rather strange experience looking at it now. One game I finished, another I dropped because I couldn't get into it and the final one also dropped but because the remake is coming soon and to me that's how I would prefer to experience the game for the first time. I do plan on coming back to SNES Trials of Mana at some much later point, and maybe give Secret another chance as well.
 

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
53,148
The big selling point of Secret of Mana back in the day was the multiplayer feature. You had to be there.
 

Thatguy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,207
Seattle WA
I'll never understand why they gave us the original Gameboy version of SD1
ffa4.gif


and not the GBA remake Sword of Mana:
Power9.jpg


...or mobile remake:
2823783-1807194348-AoM_J.jpg
 

OrakioRob

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,491
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Having skipped the Mana series back in the day, I grabbed the Mana Collection a few months ago.

I really, really liked the first game. I beat it in a few days and it was super fun. It's a very cool game filled with interesting ideas. What a great surprise.

Ok, Secret of Mana, a 16-bit classic etc... I'm not feeling it. Yeah, I think combat is awful, that's probably my main issue with the game. I think people who say...

The big selling point of Secret of Mana back in the day was the multiplayer feature. You had to be there.

... are probably right. I can imagine how awesome it would have been to play an RPG like this with a friend. However, today, playing it alone, it feels really bad.
 

zoodoo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,726
Montreal
I'll never understand why they gave us the original Gameboy version of SD1
ffa4.gif


and not the GBA remake Sword of Mana:
Power9.jpg


...or mobile remake:
2823783-1807194348-AoM_J.jpg
Because it's the best version.

Sword of Mana may have better graphics but did not fix any issues of the original. They messed up the pace of the game by adding useless sidequests. The original was very straight to the point. You still have to go to the menu to change weapons and spells despite gba having 2 extra buttons. The AI of your partners is even dumber than in the original.

The 3D remake is very cheaply made. It screams low budget and mobile. The animation is awful. They messed up the scale of the environment compare to characters. Each screen is too small to the point where sometimes, when you change screens, enemies will spawn right on top of you and damage you. It's a very bad game and even worse as a remake of a gameboy game.

The original remains the best way to experience it.
 

Vorpal

Member
Nov 4, 2017
365
You can definitely hold off on Secret of Mana. I loved it at the time for a lot of reasons, including accidentally realizing it was a sequel to Final Fantasy adventure. But even at the time, the gameplay wasn't particularly good. The three player mode was it s greatest feature, and that's not exactly a novelty anymore.

That said, I would recommend giving Trials another shot, otherwise I can almost guarantee you will never play it again. The story and the characters are all leagues better, and even the gameplay is a couple steps up from Secret of Mana. But compared to the remake, the story is going to be so bare bones it's going to be mind numbing. it's not nearly going to be as flushed out as FF7 remake, but there's a lot more going on it looks like. Going from the older one to the new version will probably feel more like a retelling of the story and may very well add a new level of appreciation to your experience.
 

Deleted member 13155

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,604
Put me in the camp that doesn't like SoM as much either. I enjoyed Mystic Quest on the gameboy, played it after Zelda LA so it felt kind of dated but its solid enough. Also, this is the best version though I did enjoy the Vita version. Sword of Mana is trash imo.

SoM has these awful AI, knockdown and combat issues. Its selling point WAS the co-op, it was all over the reviews and I think on the box.

Seiken Densetsu 3 I simply love. It had the novelty of being JP only and one of the first translated roms, but I think its a really fun and beautiful game. Its sprites and art direction are timeless.

And, I never thought I would say it... but is Legend of Mana perhaps the best one in the franchise? Its OST is top 5 to me and I ended up beating it 3 times.
 

onpoint

Neon Deity Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
14,913
716
I loved Secret of Mana back in the day and I still like it better than Trials. Just can't get Trials to click for me. I wish I liked it more.
 

harry the spy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,075
Put me in the camp that doesn't like SoM as much either. I enjoyed Mystic Quest on the gameboy, played it after Zelda LA so it felt kind of dated but its solid enough. Also, this is the best version though I did enjoy the Vita version. Sword of Mana is trash imo.

SoM has these awful AI, knockdown and combat issues. Its selling point WAS the co-op, it was all over the reviews and I think on the box.

Seiken Densetsu 3 I simply love. It had the novelty of being JP only and one of the first translated roms, but I think its a really fun and beautiful game. Its sprites and art direction are timeless.
It's completely fine not to love SoM (killer soundtrack though). Unless you like secret of evermore, in which case you should be banned for having terrible taste.
 

Deleted member 13155

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,604
Ha, listening to the Legend of Mana OST right now despite not being a part of this trilogy. Its flawless.

here

It's completely fine not to love SoM (killer soundtrack though). Unless you like secret of evermore, in which case you should be banned for having terrible taste.

lol no Evermore is trash. Didn't even put it on my Mini. Its an unrelated game by Square USA or something. There is also this shitty game called FF Mystic Quest, which has nothing to do with the GB game (which in turn is the EU version of FF Adventure).
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,364
I decided to buy this collection so I could finally see what people who have sung praises for this series, specifically Secret of Mana, were talking about. And unfortunately, I had similar impressions as you, although I had less positive reception to Adventure than you did.
  • Adventure I just couldn't get past how awkward it felt and how the game really just felt like a Zelda clone, and seeing how nice its remake looks (Sword of Mana), if I go back to it, I might just play that.
  • Secret while being really gorgeous to look at, and having a really a nice soundtrack, had somewhat limited combat, as well as really boring dungeons. The story also just feels very basic as well and I wasn't compelled to keep going.
  • And lastly Trials while I did enjoy, I pretty much stopped after playing the demo of the remake and realizing it was almost 1:1 in every aspect. And that if I was going to play the game, I might as well do it in the most recent fashion because WOW was the demo for the PS4 version gorgeous.
Personally? I'm 21, and so sentiments like these...

The big selling point of Secret of Mana back in the day was the multiplayer feature. You had to be there.
Having skipped the Mana series back in the day, I grabbed the Mana Collection a few months ago.

I really, really liked the first game. I beat it in a few days and it was super fun. It's a very cool game filled with interesting ideas. What a great surprise.

Ok, Secret of Mana, a 16-bit classic etc... I'm not feeling it. Yeah, I think combat is awful, that's probably my main issue with the game. I think people who say...



... are probably right. I can imagine how awesome it would have been to play an RPG like this with a friend. However, today, playing it alone, it feels really bad.

...sort of make me realize why the series was popular back then (will admit the art direction for the series is what got me into it in the first place). Heck, I don't even see myself picking up Trials until later on given Sakura Wars releases the same day.
 
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skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,119
I'll never understand why they gave us the original Gameboy version of SD1


and not the GBA remake Sword of Mana:


...or mobile remake:

sword of mana is pretty much a completely different game that "missed the point" of the first game. though it or one of the remakes probably should've been added in there for sake of comprehension
 

Denamitea

Member
Nov 1, 2017
2,709
I've had a similar experience as you, honestly.

I started with Final a fantasy Adventure and enjoyed it enough. I was even impressed with it for the time and system it came out for. It's a cool little game.

I then went into Secret of Mana and immediately enjoyed the music and visuals but quickly realized the combat in that game is arguably worse than in Final Fantasy Adventure. It's clunky, unresponsive and irritating. I didn't really ever want to use magic because the system for it was pretty clunky but realized I'd be fucked if I didn't use it at all and at least grind up my magic abilities a little bit.

I ended up getting to the veeeeery end of the game (like literally the last boss fight) and realized that since I had used up all my party members magic just getting to the boss I not only was under powered to fight it I couldn't even do a single point of damage to it.

I realized I'd have to go back to a previous save which would make me lose a shit ton of progress and then proceeded to give up on the game.

That being said I'm still gonna try to play through Trials of Mana. If it is indeed an improvement from Secret of Mana I'll give it the ol' college try.
 

BassForever

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,914
CT
I'll never understand why they gave us the original Gameboy version of SD1
ffa4.gif


and not the GBA remake Sword of Mana:
Power9.jpg


...or mobile remake:
2823783-1807194348-AoM_J.jpg

That's because the gba remake is one of those "technically better but a worse game" kind of remakes like Turtles in Time reshelled. It feels like a lot of the later mana games where they threw lots of things in that don't come together in any kind of cohesive whole. The worst part is the story has been greatly expanded upon but somehow added nothing of substance. Looking over someone's gameplay on youtube it takes 15 fucking minutes to get to the first boss/gameplay segment, which in all other versions of the game, takes 0 minutes.

The 3d remake is fine, it's a more faithful remake but it's really low budget. It also wouldn't fit with what Collection of Mana was trying to do (bringing back the 3 original mana games to modern consoles). It's a fine way to experience the game, but they could have done better.
 

Deleted member 17210

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,569
Like was mentioned, Secret of Mana is mostly about the art, music, and multiplayer mode. I can see why newcomers might be turned off of it. I loved the game back in the day but lost interest in the middle of replaying it on SNES Classic a couple years ago.
 

mopinks

Member
Oct 27, 2017
30,558
Secret of Mana has always been a hot mess

it's beautiful and charming, but absolutely no fun at all to play
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,119
How so? I ask because after not enjoying Adventure, I was thinking about playing that in its place.

most of its charm came from its simplicity: here's a sword and some weapons, now go vanquish the dark lord. which was perfectly acceptable (even "ambitious") for a gameboy game of its time.

sword of mana tried to shoehorn it into a 16/32 bit era jrpg lens which didn't match what the game was at all. maybe a balls out remake could work like with what they're doing with Trials but Sword was still close enough to OG FF Adventure it was just a weird fit and nowhere near as 'fun'
 

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
53,148
Secret of Mana was programmed by the same guy who programmed the first Final Fantasy and who started his career programming Apple II games. In fact Secret of Mana was the only SNES game he made before retiring from the whole industry.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,364
Secret of Mana was programmed by the same guy who programmed the first Final Fantasy and who started his career programming Apple II games. In fact Secret of Mana was the only SNES game he made before retiring from the whole industry.

Oh wow, didn't know Nasir was still involved with Square Enix by the time Secret came out. Honestly makes me want to go back and continue it.
 

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
53,148
Oh wow, didn't know Nasir was still involved with Square Enix by the time Secret came out. Honestly makes me want to go back and continue it.
You can read the story of Nasir at Squaresoft here:

www.resetera.com

The Story of Nasir Gebelli at Squaresoft (quote compilation)

(Note: The images are for illustration purposes and not necessarily from the same sources as the quotes.) ---------------------------------------- Interesting fact about Nasir Gebelli, the genious Iranian-American programmer who worked on FF1-3 and a number of other Square titles. It turns...
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,119
Secret of Mana was programmed by the same guy who programmed the first Final Fantasy and who started his career programming Apple II games. In fact Secret of Mana was the only SNES game he made before retiring from the whole industry.

also i believe most of his work was done while being Iranian citizen and actually living in Iran (dunno if he actually "worked" on the square games there)

edit: maybe not, getting my wires crossed here
 

Deleted member 43657

User requested account closure
Banned
May 19, 2018
5,115
I played Secret of Mana back in the day. Rented it for an evening or two, obviously didn't get that far, but I did enjoy it even though it felt a bit clunky at the time.

It's been one of my gaming white whales for a long time and I'm diving into it now. I'm towards the end, and I have to say time has not been kind to this game.

It's frustrating. This is the grindiest game I think I've ever played. Building your magic levels in this game is just egregious. You have to repeatedly cast the same magic over and over again in eight different categories for two characters. I don't think it's an overestimate to assume that you need to cast a given spell in a given category at least 30 times to level it up. To get all of your character's magic from level 7 to 8 you'd have to case the same spell, by my estimate, at least 480 times. And that's just for one level. It goes up to Level 8 with 99 points.

And from I've read about the final boss fight, and as others have echoed here, your magic levels need to be quite high to take on the final boss.

It's like I want to like this game, because there is so much to like about it, but this is just insane.

Also, it's an older game so you have no idea where you're supposed to go. The world map is very clunky and unfortunately it's introduced very late in the game (aside from the cannonball animations). There's really no way to tell where things are, so you just haphazardly go from one area to another hoping to find your next objective. I'm sure this game came with a map in its original release. Modern versions need to have some kind of way to mitigate this.

A lot of these issues are addressed in the Trials of Mana remake. Were they corrected in the Secret of Mana remake?
 
Oct 8, 2019
9,120
The big selling point of Secret of Mana back in the day was the multiplayer feature. You had to be there.

I am always shocked when Secret of Mana appears on "top twenty games of all times" list, when I really wouldn't even include it in the top 5 SNES JRPG games made by Square list. You can replay Chrono Trigger, FF IV-VI, and Trials of Mana and get a pretty good experience still.

The strength of Final Fantasy IV, and VI are stories and they both hold up pretty well, Final Fantasy V is the precursor the Tactics game in terms of allowing you to customize your characters, Trials of Mana art is still really good, and the story of a bunch of kingdoms fighting over the mana stones to grab the sword of mana is still really good, and Chrono Trigger is just overall amazing.

Yeah Secret of Mana might have been pretty good when you were ten and could hang out with a neighbor hood kid and beat the game together, but as a guy in his mid 30's I am not going to try to bring over another adult and play a 25+ year old game.
 

Deleted member 43657

User requested account closure
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May 19, 2018
5,115
Yeah, frankly, I think I agree with Kat Bailey about this game. Maybe I don't quite agree with her take about the series as a whole, but Secret of Mana is sorta a hot mess.

I agree that so many of the popular SNES classics hold up way better than this game. My SO played Chrono Trigger for the first time ever a year ago and absolutely loved it, and she's not a typical gamer-type. Playing the original Secret of Mana today is a chore to say the least.

I'm still very pleased Square Enix put out this collection. I'd buy others like it in a heartbeat.
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,119
there's not many "you had to be there" games; either they suck or they don't. but OT mana trilogy definitely applies. Secret of Mana/Seiken 2 in particular was just all kinds of mindblowing in 1993 -- you get the final fantasy experience but you can MOVE CHARACTERS IN BATTLE. and play it with friends omg

i'd fight to the death how it's an utterly brilliant game and yet i wouldn't recommend it in 2020 unless somebody was committed to a deep dive on jrpg history with a lot of caveats strung along
 

harry the spy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,075
I played secret of mana twice (single player) and don't see any problem with it tbh *shrug*. It has a neat little story, looks and sounds gorgeous and the gameplay is completely serviceable once you figure out you always have to wait the 100%. Difficulty curve is a bit shit and you have to grind *a little *. I played all games as a kid though. Strangely Seiken 3 is the one that I forgot about the most. The most impact was arguably the first one because I played it very young and this kind of anime ish and quite dramatic / poetic plot I had literally never seen at 6 or 7 years old (same with gargoyle's quest - that twist!) The ending made me feel this was the highest piece of art ever created. Also it felt I played the game for hundred of hours when it was probably ten or something.
 

BassForever

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,914
CT
I'll defend Secret of Mana in that I first played it in the late 00's and had a good time with it. Yes the multiplayer does help to hide it's flawed gameplay (magic spam breaks bosses and the hit detection for melee attacks is questionable) but it's still a solid 6-7/10 experience. I don't think it'd make my top 20 SNES RPGs but it's still a game I'd recommend if people wanted to try it.