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Lttp - Dragon Quest XI - Humbly submitted opinions on the first 20 hours
- Thread starter Deleted member 4037
- Start date
You cannot say the game is a relic that should have stayed in the past after 20 hours, this is an utterly ridiculous statement especially considering what it does later on. The essay and the argument that is posited in the thread is at complete odd with the game even is about provided you take the time to play it.
20 hours is a generous statement considering how far this person seems to be too. Gallopolis is 10 hours at best
20 hours is more than enough time to form an opinion on a JRPG. Pulling the FFXIII defense is pathetic.
Can't wait to play it in 2d on Switch, the pastest past of all pasts
EDIT and 20 hours is fine. I don't agree with TC at all, but nobody should be expected to play 20 hours just to have an opinion. The basic loop is clear, it's not like it turns into a cart racer at hour 22
EDIT and 20 hours is fine. I don't agree with TC at all, but nobody should be expected to play 20 hours just to have an opinion. The basic loop is clear, it's not like it turns into a cart racer at hour 22
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I'd argue that there isn't a moment that the game suddenly got better. I just progressively came to understand what the game was, and in there was peppered a few good moments. So if you're waiting for that moment but you don't like the game, it ain't coming.
Music keeps it from reaching some good heights. You're right that it suddenly being orchestral wouldn't help.
It's a solid RPG and I'm glad I've played it. Still have Act 3 to do yet. But it's a right slog at times and would not be surprised at it failing to grab everyone's attention.
Music keeps it from reaching some good heights. You're right that it suddenly being orchestral wouldn't help.
It's a solid RPG and I'm glad I've played it. Still have Act 3 to do yet. But it's a right slog at times and would not be surprised at it failing to grab everyone's attention.
I can't deny this was mostly my experience with this game as well, and I played several other DQ games (not including VIII). I really enjoyed the old ones back in the day, and the DS games I really loved as well.
I did switch to classic battle mode though and control all my party members, that helps a lot.
However, this translation to slow 3D broke a lot for me. I'm a fan of the series, so I played until the end and a bit of the post game, but the pacing was just horrible. The story was even more simplified than normal, but the extended cut scenes is what made this bothersome. I used to love coming into a new town, getting stuff and talking to people, but now just exploring is too time consuming that I would prefer to just miss the stuff hidden in pots. I liked the forging, but the recipes weren't as good as in DQIX and ingredient gathering just a bore because of slow-travel.
And indeed, those little details matter, if I hit an enemy without it noticing me on the world map, I should get initiative.
The skill system is really uninteresting as well. This is rarely a strenght in DQ games, but this one is one of the most boring ones for sure. If you're stuck with characters, I prefer the DQIV system over this one by a lot, and that's more basic.
The story picked up for me at the start of act 2, they seemed to actually do something interesting, but quite soon it became apparent it was just an illusion of change, and the world was basically the same as in act 1. The postgame gave some interesting details on the history of the world and some much needed information that should have come in the main story, but the hero is just acting silly. If it was not for the entity that followed you(without the hero knowing), the disaster would have just happened again. At some point I just gave up as I had no interest in having to grind a bit to fight the same enemies.
In short, it it my least favorite DQ by far, and I would much rather replay one of the other ones than continue further with the post game of DQXI.
I did switch to classic battle mode though and control all my party members, that helps a lot.
However, this translation to slow 3D broke a lot for me. I'm a fan of the series, so I played until the end and a bit of the post game, but the pacing was just horrible. The story was even more simplified than normal, but the extended cut scenes is what made this bothersome. I used to love coming into a new town, getting stuff and talking to people, but now just exploring is too time consuming that I would prefer to just miss the stuff hidden in pots. I liked the forging, but the recipes weren't as good as in DQIX and ingredient gathering just a bore because of slow-travel.
And indeed, those little details matter, if I hit an enemy without it noticing me on the world map, I should get initiative.
The skill system is really uninteresting as well. This is rarely a strenght in DQ games, but this one is one of the most boring ones for sure. If you're stuck with characters, I prefer the DQIV system over this one by a lot, and that's more basic.
The story picked up for me at the start of act 2, they seemed to actually do something interesting, but quite soon it became apparent it was just an illusion of change, and the world was basically the same as in act 1. The postgame gave some interesting details on the history of the world and some much needed information that should have come in the main story, but the hero is just acting silly. If it was not for the entity that followed you(without the hero knowing), the disaster would have just happened again. At some point I just gave up as I had no interest in having to grind a bit to fight the same enemies.
In short, it it my least favorite DQ by far, and I would much rather replay one of the other ones than continue further with the post game of DQXI.
Are you serious ? This game has three acts, he's not even at half of the quarter of the first act.
How can you judge the game when you haven't even unlocked a quarter of the skill board and there are three remainng characters to recruit ?
Whoa whoa whoa whoa.
Do you consider Nier Automata a JRPG? because if yeah... then nah.
They say right at the start they're at the orb collection quest, that's about 20 hours into the game, and after the final party members join.
Regardless, 20 hours is more than enough time to form an opinion on if you like something or not, and why. 10 hours is more than enough time. 5 hours is more than enough time. 2 hours is more than enough time. OP has more than put the adequate time necessary to see if their opinion on the game will change or not. I disagree with literally everything in the OP, except maybe criticism of the music, and I still can't fault the amount of time put in to the game.
There's plenty of games that I dislike and haven't put the time to invest myself. That in itself, is fair. However, I don't make claims like *I* know what the game is about with the little I played.
I wasn't convinced by Octopath Traveler before release with the demo and thought there were things that didn't feel right by me, that's fair, I didn't make a blanket statement that the game is bad, or the whole game is like that. I took the time to invest myself and found things to enjoy past the demo section.
We're talking about a person who didn't know you could control your characters manually. Come on, now.
OP is giving their opinion on the game based on their experience with it. It's not some universal blanket assessment of the game's objective quality or merits.
I'm playing through it just now and it's a right fucking slog. It's showing just how poorly the rigid traditional JRPG formula has aged.
The music as well, holy shit, it's worse than Ni No Kuni 2. The battle music is straight up diarrhoea.
I seriously doubt I'll be able to finish it, and it's a fucking chore coming off of Divinity 2 Original Sin.
FF15 is far better.
ps. I couldn't finish Ni No Kuni 2 either for how bad it was. The first was better.
The music as well, holy shit, it's worse than Ni No Kuni 2. The battle music is straight up diarrhoea.
I seriously doubt I'll be able to finish it, and it's a fucking chore coming off of Divinity 2 Original Sin.
FF15 is far better.
ps. I couldn't finish Ni No Kuni 2 either for how bad it was. The first was better.
Pretty much. It probably does what it sets out to do pretty well, but I personally thought it was boring as all fuck and a massive disappointment.
A game should be engaging from the very first minute. If you do something for fun and aren't having fun for 20 hours, that's a very, very long time. For many people that's all the free time they have available over several weeks.
And be honest here, the game does not really change with the final characters, or end game skills. Sure, if you enjoy the game it changes the pace a bit, but it's not a fundamental difference for people not enjoying it.
I agree with you OP. I love JRPGs, including many more traditional ones such as FF IV, FF V, FF VI, Star Ocean 2, Trails of Cold Steel 1/2.
However, in the 30 hours I spent playing DQXI, I did not have fun. I gave it a very fair shake, but it was uninteresting to me both mechanically and story wise. I wish it would've taken the traditional story and mechanics and updated them just a bit more.
However, in the 30 hours I spent playing DQXI, I did not have fun. I gave it a very fair shake, but it was uninteresting to me both mechanically and story wise. I wish it would've taken the traditional story and mechanics and updated them just a bit more.
I felt like you OP, and gave it up after Act 1. Came back months later, finished the game (including Act 3) and loved it.
Lots of games have multi-act structures. DQXI is not special.
The fact that the game gates stuff like that more than 20 hours later is an issue with the game, not the player.
As a throwback I see why people love it. I loved DQ8 when it came out. I beat this and found it enjoyable but still incredibly by the numbers. Strangely enough the enemy animations were what kept me playing. They were the best part to me.
It's the only DQ game I've ever disliked. I'm a huge fan of 4, 5, 8, and 9, but 11 was just godawful to me. I made it about 8-10 hours in before just giving up. It was such a bore, and everything felt so shallow and charmless. And don't even get me started on the music.
Strongly disagree.
I really respect the series for staying true to its roots and releasing a game that is undeniably Dragon Quest in 2019.
Compare this to the unrecognizable mess that is now Final Fantasy.
DQ is super chill. Love playing for a couple of hours before bed.
I really respect the series for staying true to its roots and releasing a game that is undeniably Dragon Quest in 2019.
Compare this to the unrecognizable mess that is now Final Fantasy.
DQ is super chill. Love playing for a couple of hours before bed.
Probably has to do with buyer's remorse and seeing other people praise something so you think that maybe you need to give something more time to click, or whatever.
I completely agree OP. Most overrated game of 2018 by far for me. You haven't missed anything by dropping it early on either. The game only gets worse with every act. The semblance of personality that the cast had with Sylvando, Rab and Veronica also rapidly deteriorates after every story beat.
Without its aesthetics, it would be mediocre even compared to the average PS2 jrpg.
Without its aesthetics, it would be mediocre even compared to the average PS2 jrpg.
It's a "classic JRPG" - what did you expect? It's basically the definition of a JRPG if you don't see JRPG = "RPGs made in Japan".
OP listed numerous disclaimers that "maybe things get better" on at least a couple of his criticisms. He was transparent about the amount of DQXI he's played, and his criticism of the game is based off that experience. No tricks.
And after 20 hours, longer than many games, it's fair to share some structured opinions. Some of those criticisms could be negated if he played the game through to completion, but it's absurd to expect someone to stick with a game they're not enjoying after 20 hours just to share their opinion of said game.
OP
OP
Okay, I was driving, so give me a sec to comb through this quick and I will respond to the people that arent just "lol"
Nothing about what I said implied that I judged it as some objective statement. I'm criticizing the relevance of the opinion based on the information he gave out, that's all.
Enjoyment isn't an absolute. It isn't an on/off switch where there is a breaking point where you finally start to enjoy a game. A game starting slow isn't a flaw at all. This philosophy just means that you value the first hour experience type of design. Dragon Quest sets out to tell a story going crescendo over the next 80 hours. Claiming that a RPG has to be fun minute one is just saying that you enjoy Final Fantasy because they're the ones putting all their chips on the table immediately. DQ11 does it differently and isn't any less interesting.
There is value in a JRPG taking its time to tell a story, and there is a reason DQXI manages to tell a more compelling story than the last decade of Final Fantasy. It takes its time to set up a compelling narrative that goes places, and this is a quality.
But my issue isn't that it's special ? This isn't the fault of the game that it chooses a structure that you're not enjoying. It doesn't make it any less valuable. DQXI is good exactly because it does it the way it does.
It's like saying the mechanical structure of FF6 is inherently flawed because the game gates access to the World of Ruin. The World of Ruin is good because you lived through the World of Balance.
Sorry you didn't like OP, personally for me it was the turn based RPG itch I was looking for and I wasn't disappointed.
The opinion is fully relevant, because DQ11 doesn't structurally or mechanically suddenly change in the 21st hour or the 22nd hour or the 23rd hour (and if it did, then that in and of itself would be a point of discussion).
Longtime fan of the series since the NES NP giveaway and I agree with most of the OP.
I do agree that it is time for the combat to hone in on being a bit more tactical, something DQ has always been very aloof over. It's a franchise where efficiency dictates your decisions, and rarely do you find yourself reacting with unique and situational skills. Very rarely.
Embracing more transparency with the systems and turn order, affinities, or defense negation, etc... could really spice things up. I was very excited for this game myself, but fizzled our after a dozen or so hours for similar reasons as the OP. Lack of engagement in combat and the story beats felt slow and plodding. And this coming from someone that has finished almost every other entry.
I can argue the value of having some chaos, like keeping pep hidden for added chaos and surprise, or certain enemy nonsense like dancing. But trading repetead blows and abilities in the same fashion as we did on the 80's for triple the game time isn't as appealing when more thoughtful and focused genre titles are showing up regularly.
At least the music will be slightly addressed in the Switch port(though I'd also argue the compositions aren't great to begin with, especially against classic DQ games).
I do agree that it is time for the combat to hone in on being a bit more tactical, something DQ has always been very aloof over. It's a franchise where efficiency dictates your decisions, and rarely do you find yourself reacting with unique and situational skills. Very rarely.
Embracing more transparency with the systems and turn order, affinities, or defense negation, etc... could really spice things up. I was very excited for this game myself, but fizzled our after a dozen or so hours for similar reasons as the OP. Lack of engagement in combat and the story beats felt slow and plodding. And this coming from someone that has finished almost every other entry.
I can argue the value of having some chaos, like keeping pep hidden for added chaos and surprise, or certain enemy nonsense like dancing. But trading repetead blows and abilities in the same fashion as we did on the 80's for triple the game time isn't as appealing when more thoughtful and focused genre titles are showing up regularly.
At least the music will be slightly addressed in the Switch port(though I'd also argue the compositions aren't great to begin with, especially against classic DQ games).
Well the thread title isn't exactly inviting but props for writing a detailed OP even if I disagree.
DQ has some of the best writing in all of gaming. Unfortunately, one of XI's flaws is that it takes a bit too long to reveal its hand and also that it is a deconstruction of the entire series (it was celebrating its 30th anniversary) and as a result, what it is deconstructing exactly and why might not be evident to newcomers unfortunately. The first part of the game (I would divide it into three parts) is the most basic hero journey imaginable. There is a point to it. Believe me, when the story starts doing its thing, it's effective. And I think how hard some of it hits might surprise you. But I agree that it takes too long to get there. That was one of my few criticisms about the game. Still, as someone who has beaten most of the games in the series, the final moments of XI are the ultimate payoff for pretty much 30 years of jrpgs. It's brilliant. And they needed a lot of build-up to get there.
I think IX is a much better entry point for newcomers.
Or IV and especially V if you don't mind random battles.
Regarding the music... Yeah, it sucks.
As for the gameplay, I adore it.
And for what it's worth, I don't think I'm blinded by nostalgia since I only discovered the series with IX, as an adult. I don't know that I can quite break down why it's so good though. But Tim Rogers' exceptionally hilarious video review explains it so much better than I ever could. It's a must-watch.
DQ has some of the best writing in all of gaming. Unfortunately, one of XI's flaws is that it takes a bit too long to reveal its hand and also that it is a deconstruction of the entire series (it was celebrating its 30th anniversary) and as a result, what it is deconstructing exactly and why might not be evident to newcomers unfortunately. The first part of the game (I would divide it into three parts) is the most basic hero journey imaginable. There is a point to it. Believe me, when the story starts doing its thing, it's effective. And I think how hard some of it hits might surprise you. But I agree that it takes too long to get there. That was one of my few criticisms about the game. Still, as someone who has beaten most of the games in the series, the final moments of XI are the ultimate payoff for pretty much 30 years of jrpgs. It's brilliant. And they needed a lot of build-up to get there.
I think IX is a much better entry point for newcomers.
Or IV and especially V if you don't mind random battles.
Regarding the music... Yeah, it sucks.
As for the gameplay, I adore it.
And for what it's worth, I don't think I'm blinded by nostalgia since I only discovered the series with IX, as an adult. I don't know that I can quite break down why it's so good though. But Tim Rogers' exceptionally hilarious video review explains it so much better than I ever could. It's a must-watch.
I'm starting to think people should do some research before they jump into something. Almost everything you have problems with is a fundamental part of the series.
I mean, knowing something is a certain way, and knowing you will have problems with it, are two very different things.
Wow. First I pretty much disagree with everything the OP just said. Boring unrelateable characters? WHAT!? I just can't.
That aside he's welcome to his opinion.
I will say I would rather a series stick to what makes it great a little too much than go the route of Final Fantasy. My favorite series of all time has somehow evloved into a boy band action RPG with a story that is impossible to follow and a villain no one gives a shit about.
That aside he's welcome to his opinion.
I will say I would rather a series stick to what makes it great a little too much than go the route of Final Fantasy. My favorite series of all time has somehow evloved into a boy band action RPG with a story that is impossible to follow and a villain no one gives a shit about.
Hey, Ardyn is like, the one part of the story that is done well.
It's one of the most fully featured turn based JRPGs since DQVIII.
My only complaint is that it may be too damn long. It is slow in areas for sure but it has a lot to offer.
I don't really care about not being able to see turns because I know it's tied to the agility stat. I do wish I could see weaknesses and ailment susceptibility though.
I'm actually still playing this in the post game. I have like 140 hours on it. I appreciate that they made the world huge and reactive to almost any event in terms of NPC dialogue but I feel like they could crunch down the game length quite a bit.
My only complaint is that it may be too damn long. It is slow in areas for sure but it has a lot to offer.
I don't really care about not being able to see turns because I know it's tied to the agility stat. I do wish I could see weaknesses and ailment susceptibility though.
I'm actually still playing this in the post game. I have like 140 hours on it. I appreciate that they made the world huge and reactive to almost any event in terms of NPC dialogue but I feel like they could crunch down the game length quite a bit.
You can feel that way, but the OP can feel otherwise. Giving someone crap for not spending enough time after 20 hours is just ridiculous any way you slice it.
OP
OP
I do like classic JRPGs though, this feels barebones even compared to that. The pep system is the hook, but it lacks the feedback to even let you engage with it in a meaningful way
Specifically guest characters, Sylvando, Rab, and Vince all do this before even the prior two join the party officially. Again this is probably a early game issue
I'm not sure I understand because Idon't see how it matter that it changes in the hours after. My discussion is about these 20 hours and how and why they're set up this way. For example, take Resonance of Fate, its first half is a slice-of-life that directly informs the second half that is more linear and structured. Is RoF flawed because people didn't stick around for the second half ? Should RoF have shown his hand immediately ?
It seems like this intent on enjoying a game immediately especially in terms of narrative is counter-intuitive.
All is fair. I personally feel the indictment of the game as a thing of the past that should remain in the past isn't fair in light of my own experience with the game since I've fully finished the game.
No, ROF isn't flawed for its structure and neither is DQ11, and yet people are free to take issue with said structures if they want, as OP did.
OP
OP
I dont know why you bother bringing this up, it has nothing to do with the conversation and raises no counter to the points
I like old school JRPGs, but I did say this was a game I played on recommendation that I spent money on. I wanted to get my money's worth and I wanted to be able to discuss the game with my friends. Not even era, specifically my friends
I've been playing this the last couple weeks and all I can think is how much I wish more JRPG would be like this. I love it because it is a 16 or 32 bit era game on modern hardware.